A new national flag?

davros

The Irish Times magazine this week has an article on redesigning the Irish flag. The suggested designs are all pretty naff and the article is not too serious anyway but what do people think of this idea generally?

Personally, I have never been fond of the flag. Orange and green just don't look good together and could there be any more boring a configuration than three vertical bands?

Nor have I ever felt that it conveyed its meaning very well. It looks like Catholics (green) and Protestants (orange) separated by a whacking-great no-man's land.

No, I'd prefer something more striking like the US flag or the Union Jack. Something that conveys confidence and sophistication.

MÓC

Can you post the link to the article ?

davros

Can you post the link to the article ?

I would, but magazine articles are not carried on the IT website.

Cake Fiend

I believe the white band is supposed to represent peace between catholics and protestants. Ironic, yes?

smiles

I like the flag.

Well I like it more than the trouble you'd have if you tried to replace it.

<< Fio >>

davros

I like the flag.

Well I like it more than the trouble you'd have if you tried to replace it.

Since we changed the currency, I've been feeling that anything is possible.

scipio_major

Isn't the flag in the Constitution? So won't that mean we would have to have another referendum to change it?

Fade to Credits
Scipio_major

Typedef

Personally orangism is about the last thing I want identified with this nation, it's a good jobs most people are totally ignorant of what the charter of the 'orange orders' really are as they would probably be disgusted and repulsed by such and old and entrenched religiously sectarian and supremecist throwback organisation, it is one of the most repugnant organisations in existance and the fact that is has not been outlawed like nazi groups across Europe have been is worrying yet unsurprising.

The orange order litreally has as it's charter.
1. Obstacle to Change
2. To protect Protestant business and Protestant people from Catholicism
3. Act as an obstacle to 'Home Rule'

Thus being a member of the Orange Order states that you want to segregate 'Protestant busniess and culture' from Catholic business and culture. Now anyone who lives in the Republic knows that this is nonesense, I have no idea when I do business with company_x wether or not it is a 'Protestant' or 'Catholic' business because frankly it makes exactly zero differenct to me, I don't care and it would be unprofessional and a complete waste of my time if I did.
Typedef

SHEILA

The only way the flag will change is if ireland becomes united. Once britain is out of the north Then ireland will have a new flag showing the pride of one country living together in peace being an island free on its own. For now I feel the flag represents its standing and should remain, its both soemthing to be proud of and something to aspire to.It presents a hope for the future of a country united.
It should not be compared with a flag of any other country, no one country is better than any other, we all have our own problems to deal with and our own battles to fight.
Be proud of your flag, it represents your present, past and future

GoneShootin

they should put a pig with wings on it, to signify the whole daftness of the flag changing idea

Shinji

Personally I'd love to see the country using the old Irish flag - a golden harp on a dark blue or dark green background. The current one is just a bit detached... It's a flag that was decided on as a political thing only a few decades ago, not the flag that our ancestors carried when they fought for our freedom.

potlatch

Yeah, I'd love to see the old Irish flag return. Blue is the true national colour. Not only is blue cooler than green but I've always found the current Irish flag a bit corny and tool political.

Blue would actually unite Ireland in the sense that it harks back to Celtic Ireland where Ulster was just as important, if not more important, in our folklore and history than anywhere else in the country.

Meh

Originally posted by Shinji
The current one is just a bit detached... It's a flag that was decided on as a political thing only a few decades ago, not the flag that our ancestors carried when they fought for our freedom.

The green, white and orange tricolor actually dates back to the Fenian uprisings in 1848.

billy the squid

Well before we adopt a blue flag with twelve little yellow stars on it (which is where were headed imho) I think the flag could use changing.

isnt green with yellow harp the flag of leinster

would go for something with the four province emblems on it

A review of the national anthem wouldnt go astray either

How about blue with 32 little yellow stars on it:D
mm

Saruman

How about a a shamrock or harp surrounded by the Euro Star ring on a blue flag...

The tri colour is boring!

suppafly

No, I think that would look a bit to much like the EU flag and anyway I still like the good old green whit and gold, theres no need to change it.

Saruman

Why do people say Gold? Is it to make our flag seem special? Its orange and its not even a very nice orange...

Anyway we are all Europeans now anyway feic the North and United Ireland.. go European superstate!!

Boston

Originally posted by davros

Since we changed the currency, I've been feeling that anything is possible.

the curreny has unly been ours for the last cuple of years(10-20)
before that it was tied to sterling

as for changing the flag, isnt our culture being eroded enough by outside influences.

the flag dates back Meh, to daniel o donell, it was inspired by his tiem in france during their revolution

well thats what i was allways told. i may be wrong

alot of people wouldnt be happy about changing the flag, and some would become very violent. theres only so much some people would take of this crap.

woudl you really rather a niffy, meaning less flag which could be used for any number of a dozen countries or something that people see and say, ireland, somethign with history, something men a weman fought and died for.

i say thsi a gain, if the eu told you that you couldnt have it, you wouldnt liek that one bit

Boston

Originally posted by Saruman
Why do people say Gold? Is it to make our flag seem special? Its orange and its not even a very nice orange...

it is special, its irish, and its the opne one

its a beautiful orange

davros

the currency has only been ours for the last couple of years(10-20) before that it was tied to sterling

In the symbolic sense, we have had an Irish currency since the 1920s. Flags are firmly in the symbolic category.

as for changing the flag, isnt our culture being eroded enough by outside influences.

I would not see changing the flag as an erosion of culture. Culture is where we are collectively, here and now. 1848 and the original flag design is history, just one part of our cultural development.

the flag dates back Meh, to daniel o donell, it was inspired by his tiem in france during their revolution

So it's a tricolour because France has a tricolour. Those damn outside influences again.

alot of people wouldnt be happy about changing the flag, and some would become very violent.

That might be the best argument against changing: those who want to are probably not very bothered, those who don't include the fiercely argumentative.

woudl you really rather a niffy, meaningless flag which could be used for any number of a dozen countries or something that people see and say, ireland, somethign with history, something men a weman fought and died for.

The current flag is not particularly meaningful for me. Reckon we could come up with something people feel more attached to that doesn't have tainted associations with murder.

Boston

muder is a relative term, some would say (and i would be one) that many irish were mudered because they believed in it, it is also true that many were killed in the name of it.

it is imo an erosion of our culture, the flag been a part of our culture as long as anybody would care to remember

as for currency, theres allways been the feeling that its was a british thing i eman we werent that bothered about it really, and it had alot of plus point ot changing over, so far i see loads of people taking apart reason to keep the flag, but not one to change it, weres the point in change just for the shake of change.
im sorry if you find my flag boring(and i do concider it mine) im not to sure how much entertainment you can get out of a flag :rolleyes:

Now you may not feel attacted, but the flag is internationaly reconized as irish, just as much as the shamrock or the harp, its a trademark, and you would want to be stupid to change a trade mark like that

smiles

Originally posted by Typedef
Personally orangism is about the last thing I want identified with this nation, it's a good jobs most people are totally ignorant of what the charter of the 'orange orders' really are as they would probably be disgusted and repulsed by such and old and entrenched religiously sectarian and supremecist throwback organisation, it is one of the most repugnant organisations in existance and the fact that is has not been outlawed like nazi groups across Europe have been is worrying yet unsurprising.

Thats a *bit* biased.

The idea of Orangism in the flag is that there is PEACE there.

regardless of how we feel about orangism or its beliefs we cant deny that the idea of the flag is a good one. (namely peace between sections of irish society)

<< Fio >>

manonthemoon

What about using a Black background with a Gold harp!


Did I read somewhere over the weekend (The HErald i Think) that Billy of Orange wore green and his so did his army?

manonthemoon

Davros.
what when was Daniel O Donnell in France and what was he doing there? Does Philomena Begley, know he was there

Xterminator

I think there are plenty of symbols in our culture that could make a far more interesting and meaningful flag, without eroding our culture. Infact a more meaningful flag might be seen as promoting our culture.
The harp is recognised worldwide. A flag incorporating the for provinces flags would be worth a look at. I'm sue if they held one of these degin the flag competitions, many more ideas would be thought of.
It might even signify a new mood of confidance in ourselves the Irish race, that we can move on from the days of conflict shaping our nation, to a time when we shape it for ourselves.

X

Lemming

Originally posted by Xterminator
It might even signify a new mood of confidance in ourselves the Irish race, that we can move on from the days of conflict shaping our nation, to a time when we shape it for ourselves.

To be honest, if we're that confident in ourselves, then why oh why are people wanting to change the flag? The tri-colour is *our* flag, and be damned anybody who doesn't like that. The same as people calling to have the national anthem scrapped saying its out-dated. It's part of our heritage, its part of our history, just like the flag. Do you want to erase history for sake of being trendy?

WhiteWashMan

actually blue is the colour of catholacism, not green, so whats the green on the flag for?
typedef, your ramblings are completely biased against protestants anyway. im sure youd have no prolem with a green order protecting its own businesses etc. as far as your concerned you appear to just hate everyone and anything english anyway so whats the point?
oh, and as for wanting ireland whole and united, well, its probably never going to happen. so i reckon they should all just bugger off and form their own country and enjoy a state of perpetual civil war and all the bogger farmers in the 'ra can move up there too.

Aspro

How about a brown envelope with a pint of guinness on it?

And Bono could come up with a new anthem about himself.

WhiteWashMan

Originally posted by Aspro
How about a brown envelope with a pint of guinness on it?

And Bono could come up with a new anthem about himself.

hahahahhahahahaha

manonthemoon

They should change that anthem, with all that gaelic malarky. How are our soccer international suppose to learn it?

They should use that Rugby one

Everyone now

"Ireland, Ireland, Ireland together in the scrum

Ireland, Ireland, Ireland grown men hugging each other

Ireland, Ireland, Ireland we are Prods and Taigs

Ireland, Ireland, Ireland lets all get along with another"

Meh

Originally posted by Boston
the flag dates back Meh, to daniel o donell, it was inspired by his tiem in france during their revolution

http://www.irlgov.ie/iveagh/information/facts/factsheets/flag.htm

The flag was first introduced by Thomas Francis Meagher during the revolutionary year of 1848 as an emblem of the Young Ireland movement, and it was often seen at meetings alongside the French tricolour

The green represents the older Gaelic and Anglo-Norman element in the population, while the orange represents the Protestant planter stock, supporters of William of Orange. The meaning of the white was well expressed by Meagher when he introduced the flag. 'The white in the centre,' he said, 'signifies a lasting truce between the 'Orange' and the 'Green' and I trust that beneath its folds the hands of the Irish Protestant and the Irish Catholic may be clasped in heroic brotherhood.'

Saying that the orange in the flag should be removed because it represents the Orange Order and their sectarianism is kind of like saying that the green in the flag should be removed because it represents IRA terrorism. The orange represents the overwhelming majority of Protestants on this island who aren't bigots.

davros

Originally posted by Boston
Now you may not feel attacted, but the flag is internationaly reconized as irish, just as much as the shamrock or the harp, its a trademark, and you would want to be stupid to change a trade mark like that

This would be a very interesting survey. Show the flag to a representative selection of foreigners and see how many can identify it as Irish. I'll bet they wouldn't know it from those of Italy, Mexico, Ivory Coast or any tinpot country of a few million people. It's just another boring tricolour like three-quarters of all flags.

If you want to talk about branding, look at the Japanese flag: unusual circular design, land of the rising sun imagery and the striking blood-red colour against a white background. No chance of confusing that with the flags of, say, Moldova or Haiti.

the fnj

Yes the flag is boring and the colours clash. I always feel I like such a jerk when I go to a rugby match and bring an Ireland flag.

How about we make it black (it goes with everything) and stick a picture of Britney Spears on it. She is really popular at the moment and it would make our flag so much cooler.

gandalf

Originally posted by WhiteWashMan
actually blue is the colour of catholacism, not green, so whats the green on the flag for?

Hmmm that makes the European Union flag a sectarian one then

God MonoCultural Mr. D. Trimble should crusade about that next !!!

Gandalf.

Meh

Originally posted by gandalf
Hmmm that makes the European Union flag a sectarian one then

Well what do you expect from an organization that was founded by the Treaty of Rome? NO SURRENDER </Paisley>

Lemming

Originally posted by Meh
Well what do you expect from an organization that was founded by the Treaty of Rome? NO SURRENDER </Paisley>

<Ian Paisley rant>
This is a SELL-OUT!!! A conspiracy being hatched against the loyalist people!! Tony Blair is in league with the devil himself .. the roman catholic church and the irish government!! The world is against us. We are right, they are ALL wrong! Repent heretics!! REPENT!!!!
</Ian Paisley rant>

davros

Originally posted by gandalf

Hmmm that makes the European Union flag a sectarian one then

God MonoCultural Mr. D. Trimble should crusade about that next !!!

There are nutcases out there who really think this is true. Have a look at this book:
Britain and the Emerging Holy European Empire
According to him, the 12 stars come from the 12-star halo around Mary in religious paintings. :rolleyes: