Breakthrough in dispute between Eircom and Doyle on DSL system

Nuno

I can't believe it. I thought this day would never arrive. Here is an article in the Irish Times



Breakthrough in dispute between Eircom and Doyle on DSL system
By Jamie Smyth



Irish consumers may be able to use new high-speed internet technologies from May following a major breakthrough in a six-month dispute between Eircom and the telecoms regulator.

The two parties are close to concluding a deal that would reduce by one-third the price Eircom would charge other operators to use its local telecoms network to supply these new services.

Eircom had planned to charge other operators €75 per month to enable them to supply internet services over its new digital subscriber line (DSL) network. But it is understood the two parties will now agree a fee closer to €50.

DSL technology, which is widely available throughout the US and Europe, enables consumers and businesses to connect to the internet up to 10 times faster than normal internet connections. It is considered a vital ingredient by industry and the Government to boost e-commerce and the State's competitiveness for investment.

The introduction of Eircom's high-speed internet product, i-stream, was blocked last year by the regulator, Ms Etain Doyle. She ruled Eircom's proposed wholesale charges were too high and would not enable competitors to compete in the provision of these new broadband services.

But at a US-Ireland e-Logistics forum held yesterday at Farmleigh House, Ms Doyle said the dispute should be concluded shortly. After the conference she told The Irish Times that "intensive discussions were ongoing" but she would not comment further on the issue. Eircom refused to comment when contacted.

Industry sources said talks between the parties were close to conclusion and negotiations were being conducted on a final wholesale price that would probably be close to €50, almost one-third less than the original figure of €75.

Both Eircom and the regulator have come under strong criticism from industry over the delay in the roll-out of DSL technologies in the Republic. The compromise deal on wholesale charges would enable Eircom to introduce its proposed i-stream DSL service before the end of May.

It is believed Eircom is anxious to agree a deal before its main competitor, Esat Telecom, begins trials of its own high-speed internet service in Limerick. Esat is engaged in a separate process with the telecoms regulator to enable it to begin testing DSL shortly.

Meanwhile, Ms Doyle told the e-Logistics forum yesterday she was concerned about the high cost of mobile origination and termination rates in the Republic. She said these charges, which mobile phone companies levy on consumers and other operators respectively, were too high. Ms Doyle is expected to move to reduce the price of mobile calls here shortly.

Figures released by the regulator's office yesterday show almost four out of five people in the Republic own a mobile phone. The survey found there are now 2.9 million mobile subscribers in the State.

c0y0te

I snagged this from http://www.enn.ie this morning... looks like something if beginning to move. Interesting comment on the potential price too. Enjoy

c0y0te

________________________________________
Thursday, March 14 2002
by Matthew Clark

After a six-month dispute between the ODTR and Eircom, Irish consumers and businesses many soon have access to DSL technology.

On Wednesday, the telecommunications regulator, Etain Doyle, said that the conflict should be resolved shortly, though she declined to expand on the meaning of those comments. Doyle made the statement at a US-Ireland e-Logistics forum held at Farmleigh House in Dublin.

More evidence that the dispute may soon be resolved came from the Irish Times who cites unnamed industry sources on Thursday, claiming that the ODTR and Eircom were close to a resolution of their dispute.

At the heart of the conflict is the wholesale price Eircom wants to charge other telecommunications providers for DSL. Originally, Eircom planned to charge other operators EUR75 per month, per customer, to connect to its DSL network. But Doyle insisted that this figure was much too high and blocked Eircom from rolling out both its consumer and its wholesale DSL service.

Eircom has said that any other price would not be cost effective. But now it is thought that the company is willing to agree to a wholesale price of around EUR50 per month.

Pressure has been steadily mounting on Eircom and the regulator to conclude their dispute, since the first day it began. Furthermore Eircom now faces the prospect of competition from other telecoms who are moving ever closer to offering their own service without buying DSL from the former state owned telecom at a wholesale rate.

In November 2001, Esat said it had gained access to one of Eircom's exchanges in Limerick and planned to offer its own DSL service by April. At the time the company said that it had targeted 39 exchanges to be operational by the end of 2002, and was hoping to rollout DSL in Galway and Cork following its work in Limerick.

Meanwhile a company run by former Formus executives, European Access Providers, is planning to introduce wireless broadband Internet services in Dublin before April as well. EAP's technology is known as fixed wireless broadband, and it will provide the company with a way to offer broadband services much faster than dial-up, but without the need to lay cables to user's premises.

Along with the potential competition, the ODTR and Eircom have faced pressure from groups like ALTO, Ireland Off-Line and ICT Ireland. In fact, a wide range of organisations and companies throughout Ireland have expressed worries about the potential consequences of the Republic's lack of broadband and with an election looming in the next few months, the intensity of concern is increasing.

Even the European Commission has weighed in on the debate, saying one of its primary goals in the telecommunications sector in 2002 would be increased access to broadband for European consumers.

Nuno

If €50 is going to be the wholesale price that Eircom release their DSL product at. Can anyone tell me how this compares to the wholesale price of DSL in Britain when it was first released by BT. It would be interesting to see how competitive the price is.

I also presume that if Eircom do release their DSL product in MAY that it will be only available in the areas that ran the latest DSL trials.

Any thoughts?

Nuno

SkepticOne

I'm not sure what BT's wholesale started out at but look at this Point Topic report. Clearly the EUR 50 puts it in the higher end of the market so I would not imagine much ISP choice.

The retail price is unlikely to be affected since the main concern of the regulator is the so called "margin sqeeze". The two ways of dealing with this is to either raise the retail price (which they have done) or lower the wholesale price, or both.

Pepe LeFrits

Mmm, €50 a month would be pretty sweet. Although if there is still the 3Gb cap on it... hmm

Lemming

Originally posted by kaids
Mmm, ?50 a month would be pretty sweet. Although if there is still the 3Gb cap on it... hmm

That's 50 a month BEFORE the ISP/OLO's offer anything to us, so in reality we're looking at 75+ a month before VAT in usage terms.

And that's excluding any caps at 30+ euro a month per additional GB over 3gb that EirDump want to charge :rolleyes:

SkepticOne

No, the 50 Euro is the wholesale price. The retail price and the cap will be up to the ISP.

Nuno

Clearly the EUR 50 puts it in the higher end of the market so I would not imagine much ISP choice.

That was only to be expected from Eircom. We always knew that they would try and introduce it at as high a price as possible. BT where the same 2 years ago when they introduced DSL first (I may be wrong with 2 years as a figure), but look at how far they've come with their wholesale pricing now down to £20.

The fact that Eircom can now release a product marks the beginning of a new chapter in the IOFFL story. We've campaigned to get DSL introduced and we've got it. However, if Eircom thinks that we are going to go away, then they have another thing coming. This is only going to spure us on to campaign for DSL at a reasonable price.

Matfinn

As the wholesale price for DSL from Eircom could be €50, I would think that we would actually be paying alot more if you include the ISP's markup and VAT. Im thinking around €80 initially, and then in a few years the price would drop to around €60. I hate to be sceptical, but this doesnt look good .

Matt

ando

what are you saying 'it doesnt look good'... its looking a hell of a lot better than ever before

Quorthon

Guys could someone who remembers correct me on this please??

I seem to remember that way back when Eircon announced their iStream adsl product (with the caps & all that bull****) that when they referred to pricing they also stated that aside from the dsl charge, you still had to pay line rental??? By my reckoning, therefore, if you add the ISP's/Eircon's profit margins, 21% VAT etc, you are not looking at anything less than €100 per month.

Also, I know dsl is an "always-on" type product from an internet point of view, but do you commonly have to pay call charges on top of that for voice calls???

Regs


Q

ando

Originally posted by Quorthon
Also, I know dsl is an "always-on" type product from an internet point of view, but do you commonly have to pay call charges on top of that for voice calls???

yep

dahamsta

You have to remember that you will still be able to use voice services on the DSL line. It's essentially just an upgrade.

adam

Quorthon

Originally posted by dahamsta
You have to remember that you will still be able to use voice services on the DSL line. It's essentially just an upgrade.

adam

So therefore Adam, I am probably correct in stating that Eircon will try to charge for general line rental on top of the dsl charge?

So some quick sums then - wholesale price = €50 +line rental €15 + estimate margin to service provider €25 = €90 + 21% vat = €108.90. Before call charges.

Now considering my current ISDN bill, including call charges, is generally between €70 and €100, but rarely exceeds this AND considering Eircon will probably charge people to remove their ISDN lines, PLUS the cost of installation......and....er.....well......I dont think I will be getting it.

Could someone clarify any of the above?

Q

Quorthon

Update - at the time of writing i.e. 5.00 pm 14/3/02, the following is the old information still on the Eircom website.

************************************************
eircom i-stream solo
There are a range of eircom i-stream products. The recommended residential product is eircom i-stream

For a single user, on a single computer

The product has both a USB port or ethernet option
Speeds are up to 512kbps downstream/128kbps upstream
Connection fee is €151.25 inc. VAT
Monthly fee is €133.10 inc. VAT
Additional equipment required: ADSL USB modem €175.45 inc. VAT or
ADSL Ethernet modem €242
For eircom i-stream the monthly download allowance is 3 GB.**

**There is an additional charge of 3.6c incl VAT per MB for material downloaded over and above the stated monthly download allowance.
**************************************************************

Now I presume the monthly fee will come down to a more reasonable level, but what will they do to the connection fee and price of the modems???

I think that the battle to get broadband in Ireland has been won, but the war for AFFORDABLE broadband has only just begun.

Q

SkepticOne

Originally posted by Quorthon


So therefore Adam, I am probably correct in stating that Eircon will try to charge for general line rental on top of the dsl charge?

So some quick sums then - wholesale price = €50 +line rental €15 + estimate margin to service provider €25 = €90 + 21% vat = €108.90. Before call charges.

Could someone clarify any of the above?

Q

Well, personally I would not include standard line rental in the equation as you have to pay that for all internet connections over Eircom lines. It's not generally included in price comparisons. I still expect the price to be about £90/month in old money. It will still be very much a home product at a business price.

It's worth remembering that all this is coming from "industry sources" and none of it is as yet confirmed. It could still be several weeks yet.

I would tend to wait until competing ISPs are in the market before signing a years contract. Although the retail price may be much the same (due to the still high wholesale price), I don't believe the download cap can survice in a competitive market.

rymus

Originally posted by Nuno
Irish consumers may be able to use new high-speed internet technologies from May following a major breakthrough in a six-month dispute between Eircom and the telecoms regulator.

The two parties are close to concluding a deal...

...Ms Doyle said the dispute should be concluded shortly.

Seen this type of thing before... being 'close' to a deal results in another long court case or argument between all concerned parties... The day I have to order a DSL router for my brand spankin new xDSL line will be my day to celebrate

LoGiE

The day I have to order a DSL router for my brand spankin new xDSL line will be my day to celebrate

Completely agree with you rymus. Fact is though if the 3Gb cap remain's ,which is a load of rubbish, ADSL at €100 is criminally expensive when compared to the rest of Europe...

E-Hub

Ive waited a long long time for this, nice to see its finaly here, maybe now i can get that decent connection i was allways ranting about

ando

jesus ppl, you cant honestly expect adsl to be offered here for 30euro's a month when its just being launched ? First off, we're talking about eircom here, and second, It 'is' a new technology for ireland and will be priced accordinaly

keithwhir

we all expected to pay a bit more for adsl in ireland due tou the small population and wide area that needs to de covered . oh does any body know whats the story with DSL in GALWAY ?

PiE

Yes it's good that its finally "close" to being released, but ~€75 (€150 bi-monthly remember) is still too expensive for most home users.

Home takeup will still be low.

gurramok

exactly, circa €75 is a start though, a bit pricey for home user.
Also reduce those ludricrous connection fees/modem prices !
Remember its all still speculation on final release price, sounds like it will be double the price what BT will introduce up north !!

kamobe

Originally posted by keithwhir
we all expected to pay a bit more for adsl in ireland due tou the small population...

Havent Iceland dsl? And they've had it for years aswell.....
Also have unlimited dial-up too......

I cant remember the exact prices - but i *think* they were close to £30 (sterling) a month.....

Their population is 1/4 that of Dublin's.....

spockety

"jesus ppl, you cant honestly expect adsl to be offered here for 30euro's a month when its just being launched ? First off, we're talking about eircom here, and second, It 'is' a new technology for ireland and will be priced accordinaly"

---

Umm, I have a cable modem from NTL, that's fairly new technology for Ireland, and it's costing me 25 Euro's a month.
Also, you can bet your bottom dollar that the money NTL spent on upgrading their network is a helluva lot less than what it would cost Eircom to kit out their network for ADSL..

gandalf

Well the flipside to that coin is that Eircom are making small businesses, especially internet dependant ones uncompetitive compared to nearly all other countries in Europe.

Someone posted here a while ago a prime example. He/she works on the net and exchanges alot of information with partners in the US, they can send a 5MB file in seconds but it takes him ages on his outdated 56k line for which he is paying a fortune.

Everyone understands that Eircom are a private company trying to make a profit, but no company should be able to affect the competitiveness of a whole country as they are, and the government is mainly to blame for thsi situation.

Gandalf.

Jorinn

Originally posted by keithwhir
we all expected to pay a bit more for adsl in ireland due tou the small population and wide area that needs to de covered . oh does any body know whats the story with DSL in GALWAY ?

That's misleading, DSL cannot be offered because of limits on the technology after a certain distance from the exchange, therefore it will only be avileable to mainly urban areas anyway, saying it will be expensive because of low population is merely an excuse. The US has 28 people per km squared whereas Ireland has 55 and we all know that there is a far high percentage of broadband internet users in the US.

Typedef

Originally posted by ando
jesus ppl, you cant honestly expect adsl to be offered here for 30euro's a month when its just being launched ? First off, we're talking about eircom here, and second, It 'is' a new technology for ireland and will be priced accordinaly

Funnily enough, I was going to shout and winge and moan until I and people of like minded disposition could get the price as low as possible, 30 E sounds great, free sounds even better, I have no burning desire to give eircom my money so yes, stick it to em, why? I believe in giving as good as I get... now eircom were quite prepaired to charge near three times the 'wholesale' price to the end user for a capped service....... so in exactly which set of circumstances should I feel remorse in attempting to return the complement?
Exactly, zero, I feel no sympathy for eircon, the lot of them could spontaneously combust tomorrow and it wouldn't cost me a thought as I'm sure their pricing structure didn't cost them a thought either.

Why is the wholesale price so high? Because the same politicians that hobbled the telecoms bill, you know the ones who go truffel hunting with their pet pigs or fox hunting are the same politicians who sit on the governing board of eircom and are the same politicains that have allowed such comparitively expensive dsl.

Like some obviously intellegent person on this thread has said.... the day I get a dsl modem connected to my linux server I will believe it 'maybe'.

Stonemason

Firstly id say that eircom are quite happy with the €50 wholesale price because i believe they were probably thought it would drop as low as €30 they new full well that haggling with the odtr would be a push over as they have no powers.

The sad thing is this could well give eircom the told you so factor they need if it is going to cost €100+ a month the take up by home users will only reinforce their no demand argument. Why do i get the feeling that eircom will suddenly drop their price for ADSL to €60ish (dependant on how greedy they are feeling)think of it €50 is the what everyone else has to pay just to access their lines add to this their existing line rentals and slap a 3gb limit on the service and they will corner the market. I also wouldn’t be surprised if eircom has been using this argument(stalling tactics) to upgrade allot more exchanges that its letting on.

Think on you know they are going to charge a fortune just for the needed equipment and installation looking into my crystal ball i see that home user will probably "HAVE" to by the equipment from eircom though they could find most of it allot cheaper else where.


Stone

Tis not time to sign with releif there are still allot of battles left

yellum

Originally posted by Stonemason
and slap a 3gb limit on the service and they will corner the market.

They already have it cornered and controlled and stopped.

neverhappen

Firstly id say that eircom are quite happy with the €50 wholesale price because i believe they were probably thought it would drop as low as €30 they new full well that haggling with the odtr would be a push over as they have no powers.

I agree. I think they'll be quite happy with 50.

I was on an earlier Eircom DSL trial and attended one of their one-way-mirrror "discussion" groups. The girl with the clipboard mouthed their question... (and I paraphrase here) "What about pricing - would you pay IEP 50 for this service ?".

I reckon that they had IEP 50 penciled in as their "residential" price, (introduced, of course, only after they have wrung the "bizness solution" market for all its worth), and if they had IEP 50 as their retail price, their "true" cost-based wholesale price is probably less that half of that.

IrishRealist

I just got back from Hong Kong, they have competing high speed products:

8 Mbit/sec for approx EURO 35/month

6 Mbit/sec for approx EURO 28/month.

And we're going to pay 100+ EUR for 0.5 Mbit/sec.

Obviously it's better than nothing, but if insulin just became available here would we celebrate or cry?

Bard

Originally posted by IrishRealist


And we're going to pay 100+ EUR for 0.5 Mbit/sec.

Not quite... somewhere between €50 and €75 per month, it seems... which I, for one, would definitely pay. It's a lot better than the approx. €130 p/m that they were originally proposing.

However, it does still make us one of the more expensive places in the world for DSL.

Anyway... I think it'd be a good idea to get it available to all first, - have eircom release the iStream product and get some uptake on it from the punters, and THEN campaign for the price to be brought down in line with our European neighbours.

Canadian

We must walk before we run, Mr. Realist!

I'm sure this isn't an easy process for Eircom - deep down inside, they know that they're years behind and out of touch. That can't be an easy position to be in. I'm sure their expenses are huge - given the labour problems they have and the crap infrastructure they have to work with....And that mouse guy can't be cheap - he's really slick.

I say 'always on' is a great start, no matter how slow it is. They may also find out the same thing other countries did - that as they lower the price, the customer base increases exponentially, along with their revenue.

It has to be expensive at first as they could never deal with the demand if they sold if for 30 Euro.

Do what you do when you're sitting in your house waiting for a plumber. Shrug your shoulders and accept it.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by Bard


Not quite... somewhere between ?50 and ?75 per month, it seems... which I, for one, would definitely pay. It's a lot better than the approx. ?130 p/m that they were originally proposing.

Well they've reduced the wholesale price from EUR75 down to EUR50 a reduction of EUR25.

The retail price (ex VAT) was EUR 105 so if they pass on the savings, it will be down to EUR80 retail (ex VATl. Add in the VAT and you are up to EUR96.80.

However, this assumes that they will pass on the savings. Remember the "margin squeeze" objection. Eircom may keep the retail price as it is in order to keep the margin high to satisfy the regulator.

Having said that, the priority should be to get the products out.

Frank Grimes

From the adsl.ie site

The product has both a USB port or ethernet option
Speeds are up to 512kbps downstream/128kbps upstream
Connection fee is 125 excl. VAT - Monthly fee is 110 excl. VAT
Additional equipment required: ADSL USB modem 145 excl. VAT or
ADSL Ethernet modem 200 excl. VAT
For eircom i-stream solo the monthly allowance is 3GB.**

That's 2 weeks old though. But I don't think it's going to be a case of passing on savings made from the reduction of the wholesale price.

SkepticOne

Thanks Mr Grimes. I was working from memory with the 105 price.

If Eircom decide to pass on the full savings from the reduction of the wholesale price we are down to EUR 102.85 retail price (inc. VAT).

However, as you say, it is unlikely that this full saving will be passed on. We are probably looking at about EUR 115 /month (inc. VAT).

This translates to £89 in old money or for comparison STG 71.

Currently the UK hold the proud distinction of having the most expensive broadband in Europe but it looks like this is about to change.

Frank Grimes

I guess it's just a matter of wait and see.
The whole DSL thing is turning into the net version of the making of 'Apocalypse Now'

dahamsta

I'm betting on €99 meself. Should we start a book?

adam

Frank Grimes

yeah, and the winner get's their DSL paid for by us for the year
They might go for the whole €99.99 marketing gimmick, but I can't see them giving away that extra cash they're saving. It's back to basic supply and demand imho, they have it, we want/need it etc.

dahamsta

Standard rule of business Frank: Never go back with the same price. Never, ever, no matter what your position. You can go up, you can go down, but you can't stay the same.

If Eircom come back with the same price, it'll just be another demonstration of their cluelessness. Like I said, I reckon they'll go down, and croon about it. And the meeja will love them for it.

If there's one thing Eircom /are/ good at, it's marketing.

adam

greys

about Hong Kong and such. They guys over there got their network deployed many years ago, and that means something. We're just going to get the thing started, and it would be surely more dearer. But I still think this is a good think (30% better that it was before, anyway). I also think, other companies would try to go as lower as they virtually can, just to take over the DSL in Ireland (or at least spoil everything for the Eircom).

About the cap: I think the importance of Eircom being forced to give DSL lines to competitors at a lower price is that THEY don't have to follow the same rules. They might not have a cap at all.

BTW, looking at some calculations, I wonder if we really have to pay for a line and for connection time in DSL? AFAIK, ISDN is the thing where you pay both. But DSL doesn't necessarily have to be the same. So, if seems possible to have 75-80 euros per month with no caps. Sound a hell better to me

dahamsta

Like I said greys, DSL comes over your current line, so you simply continue to pay the line rental on the line you already have. If you get a new line, well, you pay rental on that too. Why shouldn't you, it's a line, isn't it?

adam

Frank Grimes

Standard rule of business Frank: Never go back with the same price. Never, ever, no matter what your position. You can go up, you can go down, but you can't stay the same.

I agree completely with you dahamsta. It's just so much of what's gone on so far hasn't exactly made sense it's hard to know how it will go.

greys

You're probably right. I wasn't just sure it's going over my current phone line.

But at some point there should be a distinction between a cable modem line, meant to be there forever, up and running 24x7, and a regular phone line, which is going to have lower quality, but be more complex.

I think there should be a lower price on cable systems lines. Once they've got the line installed, they don't have to care about anything but the noise on the line. THat's easier than support a phone line, I believe.

PiE

Ok, let's just say eircom release ADSL for €99 next month. There's sure to be a 12month contract*. So no matter how much we campaign for lower prices after the release, the people who signed up are gonna be stuck paying this, right? Therefore I think it would be a better idea to continue to push for lower prices now.



*if not, disregard this post

dahamsta

Sorry Pie, but I gotta disagree with you (at least personally). DSL rollouts have to be managed, or it will get very messy. Neither Eircom or the competing ISP's will be able to cope with demand if the price is set too low, and the quality of service will be atrocious. That will result in an almost exact replica of the situation in the US, with people /afraid/ to sign up for service, because of all the horror stories. We have to avoid making the same mistakes as other countries.

Eircom had a point in setting the price so high, they just wanted to manage demand, and would have brought the price down anyway. They just got greedy, they wanted too much, far too much. But bringing the price down is the consumers task. The consumer has to pressure the ISP's, and the ISP's have to pressure the wholesaler. We also need external pressures, like new cable rollouts, and community and commercial WLAN's. And that will happen.

As to contracts, well, that's something people are just going to have to accept, and make a decision on. However, I think that competition will be very quick in coming, if not right from the off. Unless DSL is absolutely vital to users, it might be best to hold off until a couple of competitors come on-stream. I would certainly prefer to give my money to a forward-thinking new venture than to one of the current abusive members of the duopoly.

adam

yellum

Originally posted by Frank_Grimes
I guess it's just a matter of wait and see.
The whole DSL thing is turning into the net version of the making of 'Apocalypse Now'

But Copollas end product was a magnificent piece of celluloid and the redux version which came out years later was even better.

I myself would probably pay around the €99. Now that I have left my present employer where I had full access to a nice 26mb line I need something faster than a 56k line so I can download nonsense quickly.

PiE

I don't mean to imply that we should shout "Stop the damn roll-out!", but just to keep highlighting the issue; that it's still waaaay too pricey.

If we don't people may take it for granted that DSL is so expensive. If they do that then the other companies that may come along won't feel the need to drop their prices much lower.

Typedef

Personally I think this is a right stitch up.
First off the notion that rural areas will be used as guinea pigs would worry me 'if I were the guinea pig' and secondly as has been pointed out 'probably' inumerate times, there has already been an adsl trial in Dublin.... so why would it have to be guinea pig tested outside the capital before implementation?
Bottom line, whats good for the Dublin economy is good for the macro Irish economy, we all live in the same country 'funnily enough', and to my mind this 'rollout' reeks of election bumpf and bluster, but perhaps I'm being overtly cynical.
The notion that the government will quoute 'in the next three years' implement some kind of broadband in Dublin is a nonesense, in three years for example computers will be 8-16ghz or more so the lexicon of IT companies in Dublin and their spinoff industries simply cannot wait that long, the government have a duty to foster IT in Dublin, not to simply attempt to pass off delays in it's implementation as being part of a guinea pig trial or 'somehow' denying broadband to Dublin as being in the 'national interest'.
Would the same be true of electricity? Surely if Dublin had no electricity companies would be encouraged to invest elsewhere, which is a concept I agree with, though I'm not so sure it would make them invest elsewhere in Ireland.

The one factor that gives me cause for redress from my sceptical machinations is that if the dispute between the ODTR and Eircom is now in a state of resolution, does this not mean that *stream products that errorcom put on hold will now come onstream?

jmcc

Originally posted by Typedef
Personally I think this is a right stitch up.
First off the notion that rural areas will be used as guinea pigs would worry me 'if I were the guinea pig' and secondly as has been pointed out 'probably' inumerate times, there has already been an adsl trial in Dublin.... so why would it have to be guinea pig tested outside the capital before implementation?

This is not a case of the areas outside of Dublin being used as guinea pigs for broadband. Some of the solutions that will work in these areas will not work in Dublin and vice versa.

As I pointed out in that locked thread, people seem to be getting this broadband strategy mixed up with LLU. Many of these non-Dublin solutions will not be active for about a year and LLU may already have happened in Dublin by that stage.

Connectivity wise, Dublin and indeed the larger cities in Ireland are in a far better position for fast rollout of broadband. Most of the cities in Ireland have cable systems which could with some investment be pushed into use for cable internet. Also the concentration of population allows for DSL solutions.

Wireless options also allow for a faster implementation of broadband and I think that the ex-Formus guys are trying to roll out such a solution in Dublin within the next few months.

It is not a question of Dublin being denied broadband while the rest of the country gets it. Taking it from a business viewpoint, the telcos have to examine how to implement broadband and recover costs. Most ISPs have traditionally lost money. A simple solution that some techies seem to think has merit is to play with the contention ratios for domestic and business users. Thus you may have something like a 100:1 contention ratio at the low end of the market - the bulk domestic rate and a significantly lower ratio at the top business end. Is this fair? Probably not in some eyes but from a business point of view, it makes sense.

Most of the telcos seem to realise that there will be increasing competition in the internet market from these new operations. Indeed I saw Deutsche Telekom registering a pile of .ie domains a few days ago so either they are looking at the Irish market or are just protecting their trademarks.

Regards...jmcc