ntlworld.ie dial up service

Bios

Do ntl offer this flat-rate dial-up on sat and sun to the whole country?

prob a very silly question

Adam

timod

I wish!

Only Dublin

Tellox

im in waterford and i have it... it sux though.

Bios

I am still none the wiser

is it provided by thier cable????

is it like any other isp?

daveg

I have the package and I'm in Galway. You have to sign up to NTL world (tv & Telephone). You get free internet access from Friday midnight until sunday midnight. Pretty good.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by Bios
I am still none the wiser

is it provided by thier cable????

is it like any other isp?

The weekend option does not use the NTL tv cable. It uses the Eircom line just like any other ISP.

It is, however, limited to their existing cable TV areas. There is no technical reason for this. It might be for commercial reasons or it might just be stupidity. It costs £5 a week above the existing cable TV fee.

What you sign up for is, in fact, a full carrier pre-select phone service. It is worth checking the prices of other types of phone call before taking up the option. It may turn out more expensive overall. Note that off peak evening Internet calls are actually more expensive than with Eircom outside of the weekend flat-rate period.

It is not to be confused with NTLs 24/7 flat-rate service which does use the cable infrastructure although this is limited to certain parts of West Dublin, i.e., the two-way areas. The same areas, of course, have 512k unlimeted cable modem Internet. To my knowledge, NTL have no plans to upgrade further areas. Also I heard somewhere that they were discontinuing their 56K flat-rate service due to overuse. This last one hasn't been confirmed, though.

Hope this helps.

dahamsta

It is, however, limited to their existing cable TV areas. There is no technical reason for this. It might be for commercial reasons or it might just be stupidity.

It's a licencing thing Mike. The cable companies can't provide services - any services - outside of their cachement areas. This will of course change come March, when the local monopolies expire, as per their arrangement with the Regulator.

adam

Boston

thats not correct adam, you can get ntl carrier per select service and internet dial up service anywere in the country, but you just wont be able to obtain the weekend flat rate offer.

calls are charged at local rate, so if your using ntl dial up on an eircom line(like i can) then you are charges 1p a minute, but the service is much better then even oceanfree.

SkepticOne

I'm pretty sure Boston is correct here. I remember the ODTR saying that the franchise areas only applied to cable TV operations.

dahamsta

Sincere apologies, I was under the distinct impression that NTL weren't allowed supply service outside their franchise areas. I stand corrected.

Hey, even dahamsta has to be wrong once in a while, eh?

adam

Bios

Thx for the info folks.

Sooooo

If I sign up for the cable TV and phone service from ntl.
Can I still call other isp's and get charged their cost( e.g. 1p min/off-peak) or will I get charged the 2p per min/off-peak from ntl?

I asked the sales woman and she said I could use other isps and get charged their rate but I don't believe her

Mind you, she told me to watch out for eircom as, she claims, they mislead ntl customers to enter a code on their phones that changes them back to eircom, without telling them!

Adam

Boston

actually iots about 3.5p off peak for ntl and yes you have to pay that since the likes of oceanfree charge at local call rates

SkepticOne

Originally posted by Bios
Can I still call other isp's and get charged their cost( e.g. 1p min/off-peak) or will I get charged the 2p per min/off-peak from ntl?

I asked the sales woman and she said I could use other isps and get charged their rate but I don't believe her

I don't use the service myself, but my understanding is that you can connect to another, ahem, 'free' ISP, but you will be charged at NTL's local call rate, not Eircom's.

You might like to check on the Net/Comms board for further info on this. They may know a way of temporarilly switching off the carrier pre-select before connecting.

Boston

no, no they dont

Moriarty

Originally posted by SkepticOne
You might like to check on the Net/Comms board for further info on this. They may know a way of temporarilly switching off the carrier pre-select before connecting.

Isnt it just a simple matter of putting eircoms prefix (whatever that may be) on the start of any number you call? Thats all those ickle boxes on the phone lines do..

Boston

No, no it isnt

Moriarty

Originally posted by Boston
No, no it isnt

Well then explain it to me since you obviously know all about it.. :rolleyes:

Mountjoy Mugger

Originally posted by Moriarty

Well then explain it to me since you obviously know all about it.. :rolleyes:

no, no he doesn't...

Boston

actually i do know all about it but its been pointed out to me that some times i come off as arrogant so i tried to spare you being subjected to that.

if it was as easy as putting a prefix infront of a number everyone would do it and the whole carrier pre select market would emplode upon itself. It would also be considered fraud, yes fraud, your in a legaly binding contract with both eircom and the pre select carrier, to find away to usurp there safe guard by tampering with the line or the like would land you in deep trouble.

there is however special numbers which do not fall under the domain of CPS, all those 1800 numbers.

The limit box your rephare to is only(ttbomk)installed by esat, for reasons on known to me, wereas ntl dont install that box at all.
everything is done from the exchange, it takes just over 1 hour to change your cps once all the contracts are signed, which of course takes 3 weeks.

now is there anything else you wish to know.

Moriarty

Originally posted by Mountjoy Mugger


no, no he doesn't...

I wasnt going to say anything

dahamsta

Boston's kinda right, in that the ickle boxes are pretty much gone now, and CPS is done at exchange level. If you still have an ickle box though, all you have to do is take it out of the loop.

adam

Boston

its illegal to touch that box

dahamsta

The CPS boxes? Don't talk b0llocks Boston.

adam

Boston

o shut up, you have no right to touch that box, none what so ever.

were 80p he will settle this

Boston

4.1 The Customer undertakes not to use the Service or the Equipment:
4.1.1 for any improper, immoral or unlawful purpose, nor cause any nuisance by the use of the Service, nor allow others to use the Service for any of the foregoing purposes:

Equipment" shall mean a telephone or other service provider equipment that is located on the customer's premises.

Ie that box they stick on the the line

termination

7.3.1 the Customer is in breach of Clauses 4 and 5 above or of the Agreement in respect of the Equipment.

Taking the box of the line is definitly immoral and since the box actually belong to esat or whoever, then you are tampering with there porperty which is unlawfull.

therefore if you are caught tampering with the box your service will be disconnected and most likely you will be black balled

Moriarty

Originally posted by Boston




Ie that box they stick on the the line

termination

Boston- that has fùck all to do with removing the box from the line if you want to. Its more a general clause incase you start hax0ring the PSTN using it, or get into other questionable situations.

Edit: Even if you did use the box for something like that, it would only be against the T&C, it wouldnt be illegal

Boston

tell me, who owns the box?

Yes hacking would be agaisnt the T&C.
im going out on a limb here but im guessing unlawfull use of equipment would be well... unlawfull. call me old fashioned

Bios

ok so do ntl put a box in your home or not???

dahamsta

Yes hacking would be agaisnt the T&C

Boston, how could you possibly describe plugging the predialler out as "hacking"? Has the DMCA been enacted in Ireland behind my back?

adam

Boston

no thats not what i described it as, go read the post before that adam

Mountjoy Mugger

Originally posted by Boston


Taking the box of the line is definitly immoral and since the box actually belong to esat or whoever, then you are tampering with there porperty which is unlawfull.

I presume this is what you're referring to, Boston? I can't see how it is immoral.

Syn: Wicked; sinful; criminal; vicious; unjust; dishonest; depraved; impure; unchaste; profligate; dissolute; abandoned; licentious; lewd; obscene.


It certainly can't be defined as tampering.

v. tam·pered, tam·per·ing, tam·pers
v. intr.
To interfere in a harmful manner: tried to tamper with the decedent's will; tampering with the timing mechanism of the safe.
To tinker with rashly or foolishly: Don't tamper with my feelings.
To engage in improper or secret dealings, as in an effort to influence: tamper with a jury.

spongebob

Routing or Autodialler boxes.

These boxes have (had to be precise) one function only, to divert calls to ntl esat or whoever from eircom, the vast bulk of them are esat boxes. CPS does that fro you in the exchange now so thats why the boxes are not sent out to customer sites anymore.

They are left lying around because it would be too expensive to collect them and if joe punter were asked to do so and stick the box in a prepaid envelope he would more than likely balls it up and require a visit anyway. It is therefore safer and cheaper to leave them in situ.

The law prevents tampering with eircom kit (actually post office equipment coz the law is ancient), these boxes are not eircom kit.

The boxes are line powered, they charge up after being plugged in. As they continously draw power from your line they actually reduce modem connect speeds by 2400 - 9600 kbps (5-15% or so). By removing them, most people will get faster and more stable connections to their internet service provider.

I would conclude that leaving them in situ amounts to tampering with the line, especially if you only have an analogue line.

If they were initially put in in order to get calls into ESAT No Limits I would ring ESAT and DEMAND that they recover their equipment immediately as it is interfering with your line.

If you call eircom in to deal with a fault which MAY have been caused by one of these boxes they will charge you £45 (ISTR) for the visit because the faulty equipment is not theirs.

Regards

M

Boston

Originally posted by Mountjoy Mugger


I presume this is what you're referring to, Boston? I can't see how it is immoral.

Syn: Wicked; sinful; criminal; vicious; unjust; dishonest; depraved; impure; unchaste; profligate; dissolute; abandoned; licentious; lewd; obscene.


It certainly can't be defined as tampering.

v. tam·pered, tam·per·ing, tam·pers
v. intr.
To interfere in a harmful manner: tried to tamper with the decedent's will; tampering with the timing mechanism of the safe.
To tinker with rashly or foolishly: Don't tamper with my feelings.
To engage in improper or secret dealings, as in an effort to influence: tamper with a jury.

your entering a contract under the pretext that you will use their service to make all your phone calls, when in fact you know you will simply remove the box(i dont know if this will even work now) and use eircom for cheaper calls. this is totaly dishonest and immortal there for inbreach of the T&C, it may be fraud.

Fraud is the intentional deception or misrepresentation that an individual knows to be false or does not believe to be true and makes, knowing that the deception could result in some unauthorized benefit to himself/herself or some other person.

you know your not going to use the service so there for it is not only immoral but fraud. And since your having a monetary gain from the fraud it is therefore unlawfull.

but the fraud issue is arguable so put that to one side. the box belongs to esat, you touch it if a may that would impare it, then that definitly would be vandelism which is unlawfull.

Muck, wuch of what you said has allready been said.

have to dsiagree with the tampering with the line bite, esat has the right to put that there so its not tampering.

Anyway i think ive proven my orginal point, you dont have the right to touch that box.

Bard

Originally posted by Boston


your entering a contract under the pretext that you will use their service to make all your phone calls, when in fact you know you will simply remove the box(i dont know if this will even work now) and use eircom for cheaper calls.

eh... does the contract actually SAY that for the duration of the contract the customer will ONLY make phone calls using their service and may not use another companys service? I seriously doubt it.

this is totaly dishonest and immortal there for inbreach of the T&C, it may be fraud.

Ignoring the "immortal" typo, - no, it isn't dishonest and immoral. You enter a contract with ntl saying that you will use their service;- and you use their service.

This doesn't mean that you don't or won't use another company's (eircom's for example) service and I don't believe they can legally force you not to as that would be seriously anti-competitive.

So, in response to your:

its illegal to touch that box

No,... no it isn't As far as I'm aware, you can unplug and bypass the box all you like. You still have an eircom account to make use of if you want to.

Boston

if its A) as easy as you say and b) as legal as you say, one has to wonder how esat ever made moeny out of cps.

btw
this argument is mute, there is not way now of doing it, removing the box no longer works.
so yes, yes i am right.

but ive long since fogothen about what i am right about.

He asked about ntl, and i can tell you from personal experience, they dont allow the prefix and they dont use the box

Bard

Originally posted by Boston
if its A) as easy as you say and b) as legal as you say, one has to wonder how esat ever made moeny out of cps.

eh- because people were attracted to their service by the lower call rates and were happy to pay esat a subscription fee on top of paying eircom their rental.

btw
this argument is mute, there is not way now of doing it, removing the box no longer works.
so yes, yes i am right.

but ive long since fogothen about what i am right about.

eh... the argument is not "mute". Mute means silenced.

I presume you're trying to say that it's a "moot point" because it's relatively irrelevant at this stage, and you're kinda right there.

What you're not right about is saying that bypassing the wee box would be "illegal".

"removing the box no longer works"... fine... but that doesn't make bypassing it illegal.

If the agreement that you sign up to with ntl: states that you are compelled to ONLY use THEIR service (and nobody else's) to make telephone calls, then that agreement itself sounds completely illegal on grounds of anti-competitiveness. That was my main point, which it seemed you missed.

Boston

well untill there is a presentant you cannot converm your believe that it is legal.

of course the ntl contract doesnt include such a clause as it is a standardized one.

gurramok

Originally posted by Bios
ok so do ntl put a box in your home or not???

I cant vouch for NTL but in a similar situation when i changed my telephone charges to Cinergi(who are cheaper than the rest of 'em), there was no box or dialling prefix numbers stuff, it was all done in the exchange, i just signed the contract and a phone call from Cinergi 2 weeks later, the transfer to the new company was complete.

Boston

As ive said 3 times in this thread and probably another 4 by other people, ntl dont use the box

davros

You got me interested in this topic so I looked up the ODTR Decision Notice on Carrier Pre-Selection (99/29). It states...

· Customers must be able to 'override' their pre-selections for individual calls on a call-by call-basis by dialling a carrier selection/carrier access code, having made arrangements to do so with alternative operators (including Telecom Éireann).

That should answer some of the questions, I think.

I was living in Japan back in 1996. They had competition in the long-distance market by then. You could buy a box that would attach to your phone that would make a decision on-the-fly as to which long-distance carrier to use. In other words, when you lifted the phone, the box would figure out which was the cheapest carrier at that instant and insert the appropriate pre-selection code. Don't know how the pricing info was updated (maybe it dialled up some server late at night).

Supercell

I moved apatment 5 months ago...ntl still havent reconnected me to the service......

They still send bills here for the last resident. They still send my bills to the old address.....

When i call them for the form and BEG for them to update my address, they say no problem..but the bills still get sent to the old address (or a botched up version of the current address)..dublin 1 is not dublin 7, do they write it down on paper???.

Have filled in the transfer forms twice already, still not connected to NTL phone service. They tell me Eircom rejected the application...

I call Eircom..they say its NOT true, they never had one..and so it goes over and over and over and over..used to be a big supporter of NTL, but they are wairing me down..

Boston

Originally posted by davros
You got me interested in this topic so I looked up the ODTR Decision Notice on Carrier Pre-Selection (99/29). It states...



That should answer some of the questions, I think.

I was living in Japan back in 1996. They had competition in the long-distance market by then. You could buy a box that would attach to your phone that would make a decision on-the-fly as to which long-distance carrier to use. In other words, when you lifted the phone, the box would figure out which was the cheapest carrier at that instant and insert the appropriate pre-selection code. Don't know how the pricing info was updated (maybe it dialled up some server late at night).

yes thats is mandatory, but not in general use here.

blackburn

I phoned up about it and it's a load of rubbish... not available in many places, plus it would only be good if you spent a long time on the phone I guess