Why is prostitution illegal?

chernobyl

Just wondering where the crime is?
If both parties are consenting, what crime is comitted, a service is rendered so you must pay for it.

[idea came while watching Deuce Bigalow:Male Gigolo tonight]

scipio_major

The offical reason I think it is illegal is because it represents "a moral danger" to society. *shrug* That is to say it reduces the moral standards. It is probably out moded.

A reason why it possibly should remain illegal is that both parties may not be consenting. There are numourous stories of women being forced into prostitution by sleezy pimps. Rather than risk having one person in that position, the government choses to ban all prostitution.

Fade to Credits
Scipio_major

meglome

Before the moral minority gets here I'll have my say. Just like the whole abortion issue we tend to ignore the fact that there are quite a number of people who are either prostitutes or actively use their services. While I have never used one myself and have no interest in doing so (and yes I have been to Amsterdam), the current situation is Ireland is ridiculous. We end up with many who are forced into prostitution, maybe to support drug habits or just from deprived backgrounds who are abused by pimps and clients alike as they have no real protection. It appears that prostitution has been around as long as civilisation and despite being illegal it has flourished. Like so many other things we should tackle the issue instead of pretending it doesn't happen.

Keeks

The reason why it is banned here in this country is because it is against Christian beliefs. People should remember that the church had a lot to do with the drafting of a lot of the laws of this land. And thats the short answer.

Biffa Bacon

Harm is done to the rest of society by the existence of prostitution as it demeans us all. No one is ignoring the issue.

pH

Prostitution and a lot of other victimless crimes are illegal because some people wake up in the morning and believe they have a right to inflict their morals on the rest of society.

Ireland is lagging behind Europe in social thinking. If I want to take drugs, watch porn or have sex for money with a willing participant and it affects no other human then I think that's my business.

Why do people still think that they know best? Even if they know best, how do they make the jump to then believing that their morals are right for everyone else. You don't like prostitution? Fine don't visit a prostitute. How people make the jump from "*I* disagree with prostitution, therefore *you* will be criminalised if *you* visit one" I find totally bewildering.

I would be totally against forcing prostitution on anyone, and I would doubt that I would visit them, but I don't am not so damned arrogant and self-important to believe others should live their life by my morals.

Why is there no Liberal party in this state? Why must we vote for variations of the same conservative political party.

pH

Biffa Bacon

If I want to take drugs, watch porn or have sex for money with a willing participant and it affects no other human then I think that's my business.

But it does affect other people. Otherwise no one would be complaining about it.

Keeks

How does it affect other ppl?

chernobyl

I would have to subscribe to the theory that if i want to eat lumps of coal all day long, then who can stop me, and the same applies to drugs etc.
There is an argument that buying drugs supports crime, and i certainly dont doubt it, but i do believe that drugs should be made freely avilable by the government to anyone who wants them, surely that would eliminate the supporting crime aspect and at least the country has control of the drug situation.

The same applies to prositiution, if it is legal, than at least prostitutes can have some protection from our police force and not giving head down some dark alley with zero protection.

JustHalf

Need we simply remember a little thing called public health? STD's? There's a reason you can't give blood for a year if you've been with a prostitute.

If prostitution was legalised, there would be more prostitutes and more prostitute goers. There would be a dramatic increase in the incidents of STD's (as you don't need to be with the prostitute to catch something from them, just be linked to them by sexual activity). This is something I want to avoid happening in this country.

Same with drugs. Although we should be allowed to take risks of harming ourselves, if we engage in prostitution or drug-taking we risk the safety of those dear to us.

And regarding the safety of prostitutes, they take that risk (whether willingly or "forced to")*... if they don't want to, don't be a prostitute.

* Just putting this in because I know some git is going to pick apart my words and try and make me appear to say something I didn't

chernobyl

Originally posted by JustHalf
.

If prostitution was legalised, there would be more prostitutes and more prostitute goers.

Prostitution is the oldest trade in the world, it will always exist, as sex is not freely available to everyone, yet everone does want it.

Originally posted by JustHalf
.
There would be a dramatic increase in the incidents of STD's

Where is your evidence?
If you use a condom as i would only presume most prostitiutes would stipulate then you should be okay.

Originally posted by JustHalf
.Same with drugs. Although we should be allowed to take risks of harming ourselves, if we engage in prostitution or drug-taking we risk the safety of those dear to us.

Who gives a crap about those close to us, if i wanna shoot up 24/7 its my choice.

]

pH

At least I don't resort to weasel arguments about health problems. If you morally don't agree with prostitution then just say so.

As for health problems. Let's say I want to drive a nail through my hand (which probably is not good for me health wise), I would fail to see how that makes me a criminal. Stupid yes, criminal no.

And in between is an entire spectrum of things (alchohol, Cars, tobacco, cannabis, most contact sports, Sex etc. etc.) all which carry varying health risks and long term impacts.

I accept the state has a role in education, and maybe should advise it's citizens against things (drugs, prostitution, tobacco) that are arguably bad for the health.

But an informed adult citizen of a modern state should be able to make up his or her mind and then act.

When people argue that certain things should be "illegal" I always ask the following of them?

A/ Given that the state has only a finite amound of money, and that every Euro spent on one thing cannot be spent on something else (education, health care etc.), How much money do you think the state should be spending annually to catch, arrest and punish those who break this law?

B/ What do you think is the correct *punishment* for breaking this law. Don't generalise this, imagine your father/brother/son/mother has been caught breaking this law, what do you think should be the punishment.

Only when you have a clear position on these two questions can you really have thought out whether a victimless crime should be *illegal*

pH

duran duran

Prostitution is illegal because it is more difficult to legislate, regulate and tax than marriage, that is all.

duran duran

P.S. I love the "if we make it legal, then everyone will want to do it" arguement. such an old chestnut. when homosexuality was legalized in ireland did heterosexual men and women feel compelled to begin a new life of non-stop, mindblowing gay sex?

for the most part, no, they did not.

if prostitution is legalized in ireland - and it certainly will be - then the many sex workers here will be taxed on thier earnings - and they will hopefully enjoy better protection under the law, instead of being frequently scapegoated by the law.

some people see sex as a threatening deluge that will rip apart the fabric of civilized society. others see sexual repression and hypocrisy as the real threat to society.

interestingly, most psychologists and thinking people now take the latter view too.

Xterminator

Originally posted by JustHalf
If prostitution was legalised, there would be more prostitutes and more prostitute goers.

And regarding the safety of prostitutes, they take that risk (whether willingly or "forced to")*... if they don't want to, don't be a prostitute.

* Just putting this in because I know some git is going to pick apart my words and try and make me appear to say something I didn't

If prostitution were legalised there would be more prostitutes _:

Have you any evidience to back this up?
If there were more so what, ? this affects you how?

There would be a dramatic increase in the incidents of STD's (as you don't need to be with the prostitute to catch something from them, just be linked to them by sexual activity). This is something I want to avoid happening in this country.

Prostituion does not nessacarly cause the spread of STD's.
Bad and usafe practises do. There is evidence that the opposite happens when legalised and regulated, and it actually becomes more safe!
Further by having mandatory or voluntary pension contribution or healthcare plans, the cost of these people when they retire, or become sick (like other workers) would not have to be bourne by the tax payer, as it is nowe at the moment.

Now do you think working
(a) in a furitive underground industry, often with criminals for bosses, having no legal working rights and being afraid to report crimes and abuse to the police,
OR
(b) working in a legal regulatised industry, with good education, and inspectors, with proper regular medical checkups mandatory to get your licence
Which is more likely to spread STD's?

This is a lesson asian civilisation learned hundreds of years ago.

?

And regarding the safety of prostitutes, they take that risk (whether willingly or "forced to")*... if they don't want to, don't be a prostitute.

Why should crime against prositiutes be their fault? any more than crime against post office workers is there fault?

And as for your drugs argument, alcohol is a drug. . Does buying alcohol harm those around us? (Sometimes it does (drink driving , alcholism etc.))Then why is it legal? Because its popular? Because it generates tax income? Because its not against the 'laws' of the catholic church?

X

Biffa Bacon

How does it affect other ppl?

People find it demoralising and depressing if they know it's going on.

A/ Given that the state has only a finite amound of money, and that every Euro spent on one thing cannot be spent on something else (education, health care etc.), How much money do you think the state should be spending annually to catch, arrest and punish those who break this law?

Dunno. Not a whole lot.

B/ What do you think is the correct *punishment* for breaking this law. Don't generalise this, imagine your father/brother/son/mother has been caught breaking this law, what do you think should be the punishment.

Monetary fines. I don't believe in sending people to prison for non-violent crimes.

Victor

Prostituion does not nessacarly cause the spread of STD's.

No, you are wrong, prostitution is one of the major causes of STDs in Ireland, the others being primarily drunken unsafe sex and other unsafe sex, primarily with tourists (yes, half the people in Temple Bar on a Satuarday night are sex-tourists).

Also prostitution per se is not illegal here. Child prostitution, profiting from prostitution (as a third party, i.e. pimp / madame), running brothels and solicitation in public are illegal. In theory, taking money in private in exchange for sex is legal.

JustHalf

Originally posted by duran duran
P.S. I love the "if we make it legal, then everyone will want to do it" arguement. such an old chestnut. when homosexuality was legalized in ireland did heterosexual men and women feel compelled to begin a new life of non-stop, mindblowing gay sex?

Erm, I didn't say "everyone". I said an increase. And saying someone will change sexual orientation in response to a change in the law is a wee bit different to saying someone will me more likely to have sex with a prostitute if it becomes legal (an therefore removes the threat of being punished)

If cannabis was legalised, I'd try it, because I wouldn't be punished for it and I'd wonder what it's like. I wouldn't go to a prostitute if it was legalised, but I know some idiots who would.

XTerminator:
If you don't think that legalising prostitution will give pimps a freer hand in recruitment than you really need to think.

If you think that someone endangering themselves by choosing to be a prostitute is entirely free of responibility if something happens to them you need to think.

Prostitutes expose themselves to an array of diseases and, if they catch them, can pass them onto their clients. Condoms are far from 100% effective in preventing the spread of STD's. If you think they'res a "safe practice" which will destroy ANY chance of infection which still involves having sex with a prostitute, I'd be interested in hearing it. I know none exist, which is yet another reason you need to think.

pH:
If I argued against prostitution on the grounds of it being morally reprehensible, what would I get in return? "Ah, so you want to impose your morality on everyone!!!".

Thing is, so are those who wish to legalise prostitution. You wish to impose your idea that everyone should get to choose what they do (even if it hurts somebody else, which is what prostitution has done in the past, and will do in the future). My morals dictate that we should not allow people to carry out actions that will, most likely, harm another person who does not wish to be harmed.

chernobyl

Originally posted by JustHalf
Erm, I didn't say "everyone". I said an increase.

I seriously doubt that there will be an increase, but even so, who cares, you can bring any argument to me and i will defeat it boyz, prostitution is illegal because of that silly institution known as the church, an organisation that basis their existence on unfounded junk has the right to tell me skwat!

koneko

If prostitution was legal, there would be more escort services. Escort services ensure that, should you (for whatever reason) want, or need to use the services a prostitute offers, that they are tested, clean, normal people. Sure if you get a hooker off the street there is more chance she'll have an STD.

At least with escort services they can make sure everything is run properly, and that these aren't junkie hookers that are doing it to feed their drug habits.

Discussions like these just point out how backwards this country can be sometimes. I blame the church.

The Almighty

It's certainly not my fault this country has fallen into ruin, so don't even think of trying to imply I have anything to do with the church.

neuro-praxis

It's such a cliche to claim that if you object to anything that is morally questionable in society, then you must be backwards. It is backwards to assume that your opinion, simply because it may be conventionally considered "modern" is correct.

Are you suggesting, Koneko, that to disagree with wet-liberal nonsense is "backwards"? Have you considered that perhaps some people have philosophically weighed up the pros and cons and came to a conclusion that actually happens to be moral?

All this crap being spouted about morals being relative is also nonsense. There are things that are right, there are things that are wrong, and then there is context. You can argue for a thousand years that there is no such thing as right or wrong, but what's the point? The fact that you argue this point would prove that you feel your view is right - but how can it possibly be so if there is no right or wrong? In order for your opinion to be right, there must be some universal truths regarding what is right and what is wrong. If you want the right to do wrong things - well sorry, there is a limit on that. No doubt you will do countless wrong things that aren't illegal throughout the course of an average day - so perhaps you can console yourself with that.

As for the fools who "blame the church" for conservative views on legalising prostitution, perhaps I should inform you that it is the church (and nobody else) that has been helping prostitutes since the fifties. Way back, my grandfather was a member of the Legion of Mary and he and his friends in the legion, right until he died, would go out onto the streets to make sure that the prostitutes were safe. I don't know if this still goes on (I am not a Catholic) but it certainly was not the liberals that were out there at 4am looking after those women, and offering help with child-minding and so on.

And I'm sorry, but regardless of the context, there is nothing "right" about a man or a woman receiving money for giving sexual favours. Our bodies are not commodities. To sell your body sexually to a stranger (not in the way, say, women like Lopez do, through mere images) but to actually permit (for cash) a temporary physically intimate encounter is, quite frankly, a deplorable act. I am not saying prostitutes or their users are deplorable - I am no more of a good person than anybody else.

However, I believe that to legalise prostitution says that as a society we don't mind if our daughters, mothers, sisters and friends sell the use of their genitals to strangers for money (because after all, society is made up of daughters, mothers and sisters) and quite frankly - I would be very concerned (legal or not) if anyone I loved became a hooker.

We have the power to make statements with our laws. In not legalising sex-selling we are saying "No, this is not right."

Our bodies are wonderful machines, and to offer them as sex toys is self-abuse. Yes, we can say eating hamburgers and drinking beer is also self-abuse, but at least it's not degrading or seedy and it's actually enjoyable.

Don't kid yourselves that prostitutes enjoy being fu<ked 10 times a night by men who are so unattractive that they can't score without paying for it.

Meh

Originally posted by neuro-praxis
However, I believe that to legalise prostitution says that as a society we don't mind if our daughters, mothers, sisters and friends sell the use of their genitals to strangers for money (because after all, society is made up of daughters, mothers and sisters) and quite frankly -

So by your logic, by legalizing adultery we are saying that, as a society, we don't mind if our husbands or wives cheat on us with other people. "Legal" is not synonymous with "morally right/socially acceptable". And it never has been.

I would be very concerned (legal or not) if anyone I loved became a hooker.

So would I. But if they did become a prostitute, I'd rather that they were in a regulated, safer environment than hanging out on street corners at the mercy of pimps and psychopaths. This is not a debate about the morals of prostitution -- I think we're all agreed that becoming a prostitute is not a positive career move. It's about whether having draconian penalties for prostitution actually does any good in terms of preventing exploitation of women and preventing disease.

koneko

Oh I agree, I see my body in the same way you do. It's not something I would ever ever in a milllion years consider doing. But there are people that would, and there's people that would pay for it. If both parties consent, then who are we to stop them.

Again, I'm going to have to bring out this point again, I'm stating my OPINION. Who are you to call me a fool, you don't know the first thing about me? You're stating your opinion and I don't always agree with it, but I don't go so low as to start calling you names. Let's just agree to disagree, before you start swearing :P (just messing!)

koneko

Originally posted by Meh

So would I. But if they did become a prostitute, I'd rather that they were in a regulated, safer environment than hanging out on street corners at the mercy of pimps and psychopaths. This is not a debate about the morals of prostitution -- I think we're all agreed that becoming a prostitute is not a positive career move. It's about whether having draconian penalties for prostitution actually does any good in terms of preventing exploitation of women and preventing disease.

Exactly! I sure as fvck would never choose to be a prositute, but there are people out there that do. It's an act between two people, and no one else. I don't see why we should stop this from becoming regulated, it's better for all those involved in prostitution.
I'm sorry if you're offended I mentioned the word backwards, but I think sticking your head in the sand and going "oh no that's wrong" all the time isn't going to address any issues.

Chubby

Originally posted by neuro-praxis
And I'm sorry, but regardless of the context, there is nothing "right" about a man or a woman receiving money for giving sexual favours. Our bodies are not commodities. To sell your body sexually to a stranger (not in the way, say, women like Lopez do, through mere images) but to actually permit (for cash) a temporary physically intimate encounter is, quite frankly, a deplorable act. I am not saying prostitutes or their users are deplorable - I am no more of a good person than anybody else.

Yeah but the problem here is not everyone place such a high moral value to the use of their body. Some of the people here are just suggesting that people can do whatever they choose as prostitution doesn't really affect anyone who chooses to ignore it. Is one of the things we tell rape victims that the rapist only defiled your body but your soul is pure etc?

I would have no problems with the government legalising it but yeah I wouldn't want to see a loved one being a prostitute. In the end it's still their choice and you should question how much help (be it financial or whatever) he/she received from their family before taking up the occupation.

Don't kid yourselves that prostitutes enjoy being fu<ked 10 times a night by men who are so unattractive that they can't score without paying for it.

That's a very generalised and unfair remark and is no different from calling every prostitute a desease-ridden whore. You get all kinds of prostitutes and all kinds of clients. There was a documentary made about prostitutes a while ago and it featured this college graduated, single mother who gave up her 9 to 5 job and moved to Amsterdam to become a prostitute because it's much better money. Sure there are many women who are being abused in this trade but then there are people who do it willingly.

Captain Janway

We have a rosie image of prostitution through film like Pretty Woman etc.. In reality the sex industry, especially Prostitution is a a world of seedy underhanded pimps who mentally and physically their whores.
In some countries where slvery exists young girls are sold as slaves and are treated like cattle. This is were thre evil exists.
I have no problem with someone paying someone to have sex as long as it is consentuall. But in the cases of the developing world it is usually not consentuall and that is why Prostitution should be banned altogether. If you have to ban it in oine place then it should be banned everywhere.

Meh

Originally posted by Captain Janway
In some countries where slvery exists young girls are sold as slaves and are treated like cattle. This is were thre evil exists.

I don't think anyone would suggest that this should be legalized.

I have no problem with someone paying someone to have sex as long as it is consentuall. But in the cases of the developing world it is usually not consentuall and that is why Prostitution should be banned altogether. If you have to ban it in oine place then it should be banned everywhere.

I think there's a bit of a gap in your logic here. Can you please explain to me 1) how criminalizing prostitutes protects them from exploitation and 2) why sex slavery in the Third World means that prostitution should be banned in Ireland?

neuro-praxis

Koneko, I'm sorry for calling you a fool. I didn't actually mean it personally - I was just pissed off about once more hearing the Catholic Church getting a bashing. I'm not a Catholic so I can have a fairly objective viewpoint on it - and although I don't agree with all of its policies, it has always done tremendous work for good causes in this country, and continues to do so. Remember that it is the Catholic Church that is attempting to get rid of World Debt. And if people actually did some research instead of listening to hearsay, they would know that the Catholic Church is actually not a rich organisation, and its workers (priests, nuns, bishops, cardinals etc.) earn a pittance. Anyway, that is way off topic!

Meh:
You make a valid point about what our laws say about us (re: your adultery analogy). However, I think I can still stand by my point. I don't want to be part of a country that permits prostitution. I feel that by legalising it - we are permitting it. I understand what you are trying to say though.

I must say that I don't feel that a prostitute would be much safer at all if she were working in a legalised environment. It would still be interminably difficult for her to ever claim someone raped her. Also, she is just at as much risk as ever with STDs, and the whorehouse manager would simply be a dressed up pimp. I wouldn't imagine that the finest people go for management in that industry. The prostitute would still be at risk from psychopaths. Do you imagine that there would be a chaperone in a legal brothel?? She still has to shut the door and have sex with him alone. I don't really buy the safety argument at all.

Koneko:
You ask, who are we to stop them? I answer, we have a responsibility to do the right thing. And sometimes that means infringing on others' rights. I don't want to get into this particular argument right now, but I am pro-life, and I feel a desperate responibility to protect the unborn, which means infringing on the mother's terrirtory. She does not own that baby though. I feel it is the right thing to do to prevent that baby from being killed. Likewise, I feel it is the right thing to do to attempt to ban prostitution in this country for the social well-being of all concerned. So, who are we? We are important.

Chubby:
Just about your comment regarding rape: you say that if a woman is raped, her body has been violated but not her soul. That's grand if you believe in the soul (which I personally do) but if you don't, then what? When your body is violated, so is your mind. Your are traumatised, hurt, angry, confused, humiliated. Prostitutes who want to be prostitutes are, in a metaphorical sense, contaminating their own souls. What you do with your body reflects who you are. The evil things that I am capable of can only happen through the medium of my body. So my physicality definitely affects my spirituality, if you know what I mean.

My comment certainly was generalised but I don't think it was unfair. And I would never call prostitutes disease-ridden whores. However, I would be lying if I said I was brimming over with respect for men who use prostitutes. As for that woman who was a prostitute because of personal preference (and I'm sure there are lots of them) I must say I don't find her very impressive and I think she is an apalling role model for her children, however a good mother she might be.

*

As for the whole disturbing issue of children who are prostitutes and are bought and sold (starting as young as 11), I can hardly bear to write about it. It just demonstrates the kind of sick industry that it is. You know there are hookers on the streets of Dublin as young as 14?

And do you all really think that legalising prostitution will stop women from doing it freelance, to evade tax? And the girls that do it under 18 - will they suddenly stop? It will be the same situation as ever - only there will be more prostitutes around.

Down with prostitution, I say.

koneko

Originally posted by neuro-praxis
Koneko:
You ask, who are we to stop them? I answer, we have a responsibility to do the right thing. And sometimes that means infringing on others' rights. I don't want to get into this particular argument right now, but I am pro-life, and I feel a desperate responibility to protect the unborn, which means infringing on the mother's terrirtory. She does not own that baby though. I feel it is the right thing to do to prevent that baby from being killed. Likewise, I feel it is the right thing to do to attempt to ban prostitution in this country for the social well-being of all concerned. So, who are we? We are important.

Yes, and this is the point. It's only your opionion of "The Right Thing". I think the right thing is to allow people to make their own choices.
I don't think we should bring up the abortion issue in this thread, as it's been going on too long in the Politics board already. But FYI I am Pro-Choice.
I don't think it's right forcing your morals upon others. What you feel is the right thing might not be the right thing according to others, so why should you get to decide for them?

Women (and men) under 18 might not stop, but this has nothing to do with legalising prostitution for over 18-year-olds. They're going to do it regardless. Prostitution is a fact of life and it's not just going to go away because you don't like it. Isn't it better that it's supervised and regulated, instead of making them wander around the streets, with more risk of STD, rape, or even death.

chernobyl

Most ppl place to high a value on sex, its nothing more than skin and flesh, and this husk is mine to do whatever i please with it and if i choose to sell it for money then so be it.

Infact i do sell it on a daily basis inorder to live, its just that its more acceptable for my brain to be exploited rather than my dick, but both are the same, and the church has everything to do with ppl considering sex as wrong, "the virgin mary" ohhh...mary was so pure because her body was never tainted by sex, complete bs.

nolank2

Legalising prostitution could be a real money spinner for the Irish Government, if they taxed it as high as cigarettes.

Meh

Originally posted by neuro-praxis
I must say that I don't feel that a prostitute would be much safer at all if she were working in a legalised environment. It would still be interminably difficult for her to ever claim someone raped her. The prostitute would still be at risk from psychopaths. Do you imagine that there would be a chaperone in a legal brothel?? She still has to shut the door and have sex with him alone. I don't really buy the safety argument at all.

The main difference is that, if a prostitute is intimidated or raped, she can go to the police without being afraid of incriminating herself. This will act as a deterrent to people who victimise prostitutes. Also, there'll be a bouncer in the brothel who will hear any screams or respond if a panic button is pressed.

JustHalf

Originally posted by chernobyl
and the church has everything to do with ppl considering sex as wrong, "the virgin mary" ohhh...mary was so pure because her body was never tainted by sex, complete bs.

Jeez. Complete idiocy.

* The Catholic Church does not believe sex is wrong. It believes that sex outside of marriage is wrong. Big difference.
* Mary wasn't pure merely because she was a virgin. That was just on of a list of attributes.

I'm not Catholic, but that doesn't absolve me from the responisibilty of accuracy.

Clintons Cat

Here is some things to bear in mind.

In parts of Africa the local slang name for Aids is "Scania" after the scania trucks of the male clientelle of truckstop brothels.

Secondly Some Men will positively refuse to wear a condom and some prostitutes are not in a position to refuse to have sex without a condom being worn.

Thirdly Males who use prostitutes also have sex with women not involved with the sex industry,Thus Aids is not an "industry specific" or localised problem

Fourthly in some areas Prostitutes are campaigning for better legal representation and recognition.
Here are some links to some groups and things,you get the idea,
http://www.walnet.org/csis/papers/index.html
http://www.bayswan.org/decrim.html
http://www.bayswan.org/penet.html
http://www.walnet.org/csis/groups/maggies/amsterdam_report/amst_report.html
http://www.walnet.org/csis/groups/maggies/
http://www.lexisnexis.com/academic/2upa/Ies/MunicipalArchivesAmsterdam.htm
http://www.amsterdamcohortstudies.org/

NeRb666

Surely those things you mentioned would be far easier to control/regulate if prostitution was legal. A prostitute isn't in a position to demand that the client use a condom, but if it was in a brothel or whatever, surely it would be "enforced", so to speak. The way it is now, they'd probably get raped anyway.

WhiteWashMan

because its untaxed and unregulated.

Clinical Waste

I am extremely impressed with the level of intel, rationale & maturity of this thread. This is exactly how the boards should be.

Of course I won't contribute here as anything I say will be smutty and inappropriate .

Jackoman

If you want to know the legalities of it all just check out this informative site

http://www.escortireland.com/Legal_Section.cfm

They will explain what is legal and how Escorts are legal. It is fundamentally all down to when the money is exchanged.
Good to see everybodys mixed opinions of it all.
Legalised prostitution is not always something a country wants, but look how the Dam worked out. Very strict and well organised prositution system of which the Government does well from. Personally I believe everything can be managed well and safely if run by the right people. And so long as they are not harming innocent parties then I think they should be free to do as they like.

azezil

jasus chernobyl i better keep an eye on you when next you come in! there'll be none of that while i'm on duty

Xterminator

Originally posted by JustHalf
Jeez. Complete idiocy.

* The Catholic Church does not believe sex is wrong. It believes that sex outside of marriage is wrong. Big difference.
* Mary wasn't pure merely because she was a virgin. That was just on of a list of attributes.

I'm not Catholic, but that doesn't absolve me from the responisibilty of accuracy.

Just a reply in the name of accuracy.

Mary a Virgin? There is historical evidence that she had other children than Jesus, thus the term virgin is no more applicable to her than any other woman.

Word actually used in Hebrew scriptures is "almah" (="young woman").

Hebrew word which could have been used, but wasn't, was "bethulah" (="virgin").

It was a mis-translation.



As a christian i believe Mary was special because she was chose to have the son of god, and because the conception was spiritual.
This Virgin business?

read here

can read more from here

The_Bullman

The catholic church only decided with the last catacism in the immaculate conception. Mary wasn't a virgin in the churches eyes until then.


Also(not 100%), doesn't the catholic church only support sex for procreation, i.e. it is ok for a married couple to have sex but only in an attempt to get her pregnant. Isn't this the issue with birth control

JustHalf

Jeez, Xterminator, I'm simply giving the Catholic Church's line on things, which Chernobyl was incorrectly describing.

And if you don't think that a woman can be a virgin one day and not be a virgin the next, you deserve a slap of the highest order.

TwoShedsJackson

First off, tax collecting is the oldest profession, not prostitution.

Second off, this:

Originally posted by duran duran
P.S. I love the "if we make it legal, then everyone will want to do it" arguement. such an old chestnut. when homosexuality was legalized in ireland did heterosexual men and women feel compelled to begin a new life of non-stop, mindblowing gay sex?

for the most part, no, they did not.

'for the most part', gave me the best laugh I've had in a while

pH

Dunno 'bout you CT, but I was a little tempted for a while, seeing as it was legal an' all.

pH

Victor

If it is so 'consensual' why do 'clients' have to pay for it? Isn't there a substantial element of financial desparation? This makes the situation quite one-sided.

chernobyl

Originally posted by Victor
If it is so 'consensual' why do 'clients' have to pay for it? Isn't there a substantial element of finanacial desparation? This makes the situation quite one-sided.

Dont goto work tomorrow then.

Victor

Originally posted by chernobyl
Dont goto work tomorrow then.

Despite being financially desparate, I refuse to work (or prostitute myself for that matter ).

chernobyl

But you get the point right.
"9 to 5's" are exploitation in an acceptable way.

JustHalf

Exploitation is always wrong. Where's capitalism, anyway? I need to smash it. It's so cool to be a rebel.

Sarcasm off.

Clintons Cat

Originally posted by NeRb666
Surely those things you mentioned would be far easier to control/regulate if prostitution was legal. A prostitute isn't in a position to demand that the client use a condom, but if it was in a brothel or whatever, surely it would be "enforced", so to speak. The way it is now, they'd probably get raped anyway.

That might be the point i was making.