Eircom High-Speed - ISDN - BAH!

Manic

In the couple of years I have had ISDN I have paid Tinet/Eircom over £7,000 (Not EURO) for the privilege of having 7.6kps download speeds rather than 2.1kps - 1.8kps. I have put up with my ISDN failing at the w-ends (Friday evening through to the following Wed or Thu.) And I have heard many excuses from Eircom as to why it failed and put up with their excuses
Because I needed ISDN. But the cost of ISDN access has finally bleed me Dry. I can no longer afford the high cost of being "A Privileged user" As Eircom would put it. To make matters worse Eircom informed me that if I want my old existing line back I would have to pay £100 and I might not be able to keep my old number? I have already paid Eircom for my old line and also paid for it to be upgraded to ISDN. I find it really insulting that Eircom should or will charge me to have my line Downgraded to my old existing line? I know Eircom read the posts here. So I just want to say to any Eircom Employee that is reading this.
Please tell your boss/as that you can celebrate once again in the
Downfall of another Business, your Leech can let go now, there will be "No more blood drawn from me".

Thank you Eircom,

For being a total ass and making me believe in you on the first place!

P.S.

LegacyUser

James,

Both your lines are engaged right now so if your still online and see this, give me a call. I have also sent you a PM and an e-mail mate. Help is here is you need it ok.

Regards,

Mike (aka MS) Call me ok!

Ruu_Old

damnit, how many other businesses have fallen? or have fallen to this ? Sorry to hear this, really am, anything i can do, anything at all, dont hesitate to email...

[CALIBUR]

GOD this is getting to really piss me off with Eircoms BULLcrap.for fcuk sake its not fair!!

ando

I got isdn installed there last thursday and so far I'm quite happy with it, although I dont like the fact that you HAVE to pay for the equivilant of line rental on 2 lines when all I'll be using is one line (64Kbps). But eircom are totally screwing me and everyone else with the pricing. If only there was a flat rate isdn service

m1ke

I think this high speed myth should be uncovered so the public know exactly what they're getting into when they buy it. Surely it's illegal to brand it high speed when it's narrow band and ISDN, IOFL should complain to whoever handles that advertising stuff.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by m1ke
I think this high speed myth should be uncovered so the public know exactly what they're getting into when they buy it. Surely it's illegal to brand it high speed when it's narrow band and ISDN, IOFL should complain to whoever handles that advertising stuff.

They should be made to call it "Eircom not-ADSL (TM)".

Fergus

"Upgrade your line for only 72 cent a day"

"Download large files in seconds"

gandalf

It would be very interesting to get someone in Eircom to define what they mean by a "large file".

I would personally call a large file something around 60MB+ and on a ISDN line that does not come down in seconds. Others would count a large file in the 100's of MB's.

Gandalf.

SantaHoe

Originally posted by gandalf
It would be very interesting to get someone in Eircom to define what they mean by a "large file".

I know, I had to laugh at that add too...
Let's see... a file you'd download in seconds with ISDN... 200kb?
That'd be a few pages of a Word document? - Oh my, that does sound large alright.
You couldn't even download standard software updates in seconds, least of all Windows service packs or god forbid something with multimedia content.
They should rename 'Hi-Speed' to 'Slightly-better-than-56k-modem-speed' ... blatent false advertising if you ask me.

Stonemason

That due to eircons pricing you were forced to drop ISDN Manic as you probably know i was in the same boat the sad thing is i run a small buisnes too and though i could possibly write off the cost of the ISDN (we are vat registered)Ill be damned if im going to give eircom that extra busines for such a pathetic offering and to prop up their monoply.Not to mention that their SPAM BS has worked quite well and the ISDN service has gone to ****e (it did for me at the end)due to to many users.So i say again boycot this BS highspeed lie and send them a message to where they will really feel it their cash register.Anyone thinking of getting ISDN take note 2 years ago i thought it wouldnt be long until i could get flatrate ISDN (ala snl)of course this never happened and i personaly paid out probably more than Manic in phone bills so please dont fool yourselfs into think things will change please dont tell yourself you can handle the bills because i did both and i was completly wrong.


Stone

Typedef

I had been looking to Dublin 24,22,16 and 6w as places to live so I could get a cable modem, the thing is moving eleven miles onto the South Side of the city and eleven miles away from my job just for cable is too much. I am going to have to stay on the North Side when I move out. (I couldn't possibly live with all of those toffs).

I had been considering getting ISDN in place of cable in the cheap and rank hovel I eventually move into, but I am getting a wee bit concerned about the cost of it. What is an average bill assuming you have nothing but ISDN and internet access via ISDN?

elexes

last phone bill for net charges was 300 euros .

m1ke

yer talking like 35£ line rental and about 40£ a month if you're a moderate evenings only user. Bout say £100 euro a month. But I know people working from home, even part time in the evenings and it's like 400 euros a month sic

po0k

*cough* www.irishwan.org *cough*

ando

Originally posted by Typedef
What is an average bill assuming you have nothing but ISDN and internet access via ISDN?

I dunno, I'm still waiting for my first bill !!

NeMiSiS

So we've established that Eircon's advertising for hi-speed is misleading...even flase...even bull****

So lets get togther the reasons why and fire them off to the ASAI.

For one imho the whole 'download large images or files in seconds' is crap so thats a basis,I think we're agreed on that,at least eircom will have to respond to the complaint as to what they consider a large file NTL allready put in a complaint about i-stream

http://www.asai.ie/newsletter/detail.tmpl?SKU=20011211104757

I think another complaint should be lodged about the ownership of adsl.ie,so eh fire up the millions of complaints we'll compile em,in the next few days and send them all off to the asai ?

or has this allready be done..?

adios
nem

Yoda

I'm sorry Manic has had business troubles because of the high cost of ISDN. Many small business and households have financial troubles as we know, because internet access is in the hands of a monopoly.

May I suggest, again, that the best way forward is to do as other countries have done?

Prioritize on making unmetered 56K dialup available. It has been shown that the availability of this product increases user interest in the internet in general which in turn creates profit and further investment in better ISDN and eventually broadband. The horse must lead the cart -- and we should remember that the horse is being starved right now by metered pricing.

May I challenge the staunchest of IrelandOffline's broadband supporters to accept that no matter how loudly you shout today, broadband is still a long way off, and may I ask you to try to invest some energy, instead of moaning and griping in threads like this, to brainstorm and help us come up with ideas to encourage the (re)introduction of unmetered access in Ireland?

Ruu_Old

Agreed Yoda unmetered dialup will, im sure be seen as a stepping stone to broadband

Stonemason

To an exstent i waited two years for flatrate and i would probably still have ISDN if it had ever happened.I personal still beleive in pushing for both firstly because im forced to use 56k so everything takes so long to do online its still costing to much.But i havent forgoten why i got ISDN in the first place and why now i spend more time on these board (while im downloading stuff)Hoping to see that post that will bring me a little hope that things will improve.So Yoda ill bung €50 at any cause that will bring true pressure to those responsible for our present plight.Im not just gassing here i mean what i say.I think alot of others feel the same (amounts may very)So rather than lobby this and lobby that all things that are done out of veiw of even these boards let alone Joe public.I have a question how many Fob offs polite letters saying i feel for you but!! or the ever popular we are working on it or ill ask so and so TD ect ect is Irelandoffline to take before it realises its all for nothing.Come on lads wake up and smell the coffee the goverment just gave Eircom €180000 does this sound like a goverment that is taking complaints about Eircoms monoply seirously.


Stone

Calibos

I remember when they first started advertising Hi-Speed, the Oul One suggested getting it. I explained to her that there would be no point as it was hideously overpriced obsolete technology and anyway, flatrate adsl was just around the corner. Yeah Right!

After a year and a half of waiting I gave up and signed on the dotted line for ISDN. Now it is a pleasent improvement compared to 56k dialup, downloading files and webpages is twice as fast and connection is near instantaneous and reliable, but for the love of God why wasn't this available to the consumer at realistic(not that todays rates are realistic) rates 7-8 years ago. Are we going to be 10 years behind the rest of the western world with adsl as well.

I remember saying to friends that although price comparisions between European Countries were easy, it would not be until the Euro came in that the papers would jump on the bandwagon and print pricelists that would show the average punter the disparity of prices between here and the rest of Europe. Then I was thrilled this week when the papers started printing pieces on the VRT (Vehicle Rip-Off Tax) another pet hate off mine. This was brought on by the EU taking away the concessions to car manufacturers allowing them to continue there restrictive dealership and pricing practices meaning cheaper cars all over Europe but paradoxically meaning..........yes you guessed it, Irish consumers will actually pay more!!:mad: :mad:
What event is going to make the broadband/flatrate issue newsworthy to the newspapers. Where they actually take the issue seriously and do some proper research. At the moment all you see is the odd 'three inch' piece tucked away in the middle of the paper where the reporter rings Eircom for there side of the story and takes the Eircom PR departments word as Gospel without question or rebuttal.

Oooooh it makes me so mmmmaaaaaaadddd:mad: :mad:

triple-play

Does anyone know how many ISDN customers there are in Ireland -and what percentage are located in Dublin?

Any info (and sources if possible) would be great.

Dustaz

Originally posted by Yoda
May I challenge the staunchest of IrelandOffline's broadband supporters to accept that no matter how loudly you shout today, broadband is still a long way off

Um no.
as things stand Broadband is closer than FRIACO. The numbers of people with access to broadband is far greater than the number of people with access to FRIACO - 0.

Doodee

Come on lads wake up and smell the coffee the goverment just gave Eircom €180000 does this sound like a goverment that is taking complaints about Eircoms monoply seirously.

For one they cant really do anything about the situation with Eircom as they did Privatise it in the first place.

Also if you do remember Esat did offer Off-Peak flat rate access and that failed due to eircom... the only way around this really is to avoid eircom.If you think about it Eircom would start loosing profits if ppl started swopping to other methods of connecting to the internet. If you consider that changing fone companies just means that Esat are gonna have to pay errorcom for the line anyways.Irishwan or Sateliette conns seem to be the only way around this and until errorcom have no choice but to roll out ADSL /Flat rate isdn to regain proits then there is nothing we can do.

"Evil will reign when good people stand around and do nothing".

For errorcom that is definitly true.

Yoda

Doodee hat geschrieben
Irishwan or Sateliette conns seem to be the only way around this and until errorcom have no choice but to roll out ADSL /Flat rate isdn to regain proits then there is nothing we can do.

No. Not flat rate ISDN. Flat rate, unmetered, 56K dialup would serve a hundred thousand users and potential users immediately. This could be accomplished with the flick of a switch, by simply redefining the tarriff on existing 1891 numbers.

The monopoly will not allow this, and this is what IrelandOffline needs to understand, and this is the principal difficulty we should be addressing.

Achieve unmetered 56K dialup, and all the rest will follow.

Yoda

Dustaz scripsit
as things stand Broadband is closer than FRIACO. The numbers of people with access to broadband is far greater than the number of people with access to FRIACO - 0.

I don't accept a one-sentence throwaway line like this without elaboration, Dustaz. Who has broadband? People at work with a T1 connection?

It is true that no one has unmetered dialup access in Ireland, and this is the thing that harms Irish users more than the inconvenience some users feel because broadband isn't here yet. There is a big difference between the inconvenience of slow downloads, which is a luxury, and the inconvenience of not being able to predict from month to month how to budget your company or household income, which is a necessity.

Mark

Sorry bout the biz Maniac. Lets just hope the Eircom fat cats choke on some coins during their money fights and are replaced by someone half-way competent.

Dustaz

Originally posted by Yoda


I don't accept a one-sentence throwaway line like this without elaboration, Dustaz. Who has broadband? People at work with a T1 connection?

Pay more attention to the forums?
About 10,000 (?) homes in the west dublin area have access to ntls cable modem service. Theres a tiny amount of people (i would guess 500 - 1000 ) on Eircoms ADSL. AFAIK theres a certain number using satellite. Then theres the people who got on to the Chorus Powernet before it was shut down to residential users.

It is true that no one has unmetered dialup access in Ireland, and this is the thing that harms Irish users more than the inconvenience some users feel because broadband isn't here yet. There is a big difference between the inconvenience of slow downloads, which is a luxury, and the inconvenience of not being able to predict from month to month how to budget your company or household income, which is a necessity.

You said on another thread that you only heard about FRIACO last year. Ive been waiting for unmetered access since 1994, and im certainly not alone in that.
Im not getting at you personally with this, but to me dialup hasnt been enough for the last few years, metered or not. Yes , its a luxury, but so was dial-up not too long ago.
If the lack of broadband is a mere 'inconvenience', why is it such a priority for the EU?

Everytime i write one of these posts i feel like i sound like im against FRIACO or something. Thats ludicrous, im not at all. I see it as VITAL and necessary. I just dont think its an "either/or" situation. Both are vital and the lack of both make us look like a laughing stock.

Dustaz

Originally posted by Yoda


This could be accomplished with the flick of a switch, by simply redefining the tarriff on existing 1891 numbers.

Correct me if im wrong, but theres already an unmetered number, ready for use?. Isnt it up to the OLO's to take advantage of it (after the LLU legal thing is over)

Also, dont be too quick to write off ISDN. Personally i see ISDN being involved in ANY FRIACO type deal. It would make ISDN actually useful as an cheaper alternative to broadband for users who have no need for the larger pipes.
It also should be pointed out to eircom that a flatrate ISDN solution would allow them to keep a proportion of thier existing isdn user base in the face of cheaper DSL alternatives in the future

NeoSlicerZ

Originally posted by gandalf
It would be very interesting to get someone in Eircom to define what they mean by a "large file".

I would personally call a large file something around 60MB+ and on a ISDN line that does not come down in seconds. Others would count a large file in the 100's of MB's.

Gandalf.

Large file for me <-- largest ever ; DOD2, took nigh on 7 hours at steady 8.0k on GoZilla

Stonemason

I think your more elequent than myself certainly more undestandable please note to read my posts you have to read between the lines a little bit.For all those who use the net on an iregular basis ISDN at flatrate would be ideal for those who need more bandwidth for downloading and using the net for seirous buisness and fun then broadand is the only way.Forgive me if im wrong but this should not be a LUXURY in modern times but a basic requirment for any nation considered to be a none third world country.I was in the pub tonight talking to my old man he told me (i hope he,s right ) than Tony the bollix o,Rielly made most of his money working for Heinz in Yanky land forgive me for laughing out loud when i heard this considering the amount of hot air eircom blows Not only was the goverment taken in by his bid but the average irish punter (myself included)has and will reu the day Young tony pulled this ****e off.Nuff said the Keys are really dancing tonight .



Stone

G

afaik the only cost difference (after connection / setup charges etc) between say an analogue eircomnet conn & the isdn hi-speed one is you pay rental monthly instead of bi-monthly??
I'm not 100% on that so someone please correct me if I'm wrong

I too grabbed at the Eircon hi-speed carrot & I've been getting milked for around IR£250/month from the huckin hastards.

In spite of the extortionate costs, are us "hi-speeders" (:rolleyes: ) not better off paying double the rent (€50/month extra?) for what is pretty much double the speed? (4k/s vs 8k/s)

Stonemason

This is what they pulled on me without warning coz i was using ISDN before it became HI-SPEED i used to pay bi monthly.Anyway as far as downloading go,s i used to get about 7kbps on isdn and i get about 5.5kbps on anolog so not exactly a big difference unless you use both lines.Problem with line rental is it doesnt sound too bad untill they lump your calls and everything together and slap vat on the whole lot 1 month my vat alone was £80 more than most people pay for their entire bill.



Stone

G

7kbps on isdn and i get about 5.5kbps on anolog so not exactly a big difference unless you use both lines

I never got more than 11/12kps with twin so I just use single which is always 8/8.5 and around 4.5 with analogue. whatever way you look at it it's still a load of ****

jd

Originally posted by G


I never got more than 11/12kps with twin

out odf interest what ta are you using-is it connectefd to your serial port?

jd

Originally posted by Calibos
Then I was thrilled this week when the papers started printing pieces on the VRT (Vehicle Rip-Off Tax) another pet hate off mine. This was brought on by the EU taking away the concessions to car manufacturers allowing them to continue there restrictive dealership and pricing practices meaning cheaper cars all over Europe but paradoxically meaning..........yes you guessed it, Irish consumers will actually pay more!!:mad: :mad:

small point -without vrt (which is taken by the *government*)
Irrish car prices would be amongst the cheapest in Europe
jd

G

Eicon diva internal.. always 8/8.5k single, twin hops from 10-12

any thoughts?

seamus

ISDN would be good and useful if it wasn't classed as a 'special needs' service by eircom. Apparently German phone lines come as ISDN by default. You say you pay twice the rent for twice the bandwidth. Why should you? An ISDN line is no different nor more expensive to 'maintain' than an analogue line. ISDN shouldn't be classed as a luxury phone line, it should probably come as standard in new houses, and be offered to existing analogue customers as a cheap upgrade, with the same line rental. Why are eircom still using analogue lines and trying to develop new technology to use with it. Analogue is obsolete. Eircell dumped the analogue network last year because it was obsolete. Modern phone exchanges use digital technology. Yet ISDN is still touted as a ultra modern and luxury service. Bull. An all-ISDN network would probably reduce costs.

Not that it makes a difference without FRIACO.......:(

jd

Originally posted by G
Eicon diva internal.. always 8/8.5k single, twin hops from 10-12

any thoughts?

mmm
I get 7k/14k (on a compressed gz file) using an internal generic winbond w6692 pci whic cost me £30

Stonemason

Very strange i used to get 7kbps and 14kbps and i too used a Diva icon internal.I cant see how your getting a very good 8/8.5 on one hand and only 12 when using both line very strange .



Stone

Calibos

JD,

I know VRT is the *government*. Its calculated on the Pre-Tax Price + Vat so its a tax on a tax. My point is that the result of the moves by the EU to get a better deal for consumers is that pretax prices across Europe should harmonise. While Germany's high pretax price will probably be reduced to the EU average and thus the net price of their cars will fall, our low pretax price will increase to the average, meaning higher pretax price + vat + vrt = Even more expensive cars. Oh and to re-iterate the main point of that point??:D What event will make the broadband issue front page news?

NewsFlash--Buddist monk sets fire to himself in front of GPO over broadband issue!!--Newsflash

........maybe that example was a little bit twisted:rolleyes: :rolleyes: