ADSL What price would you pay?

sikes

I just wan to know what people would be willing to pay

i would pay €60 a month for an UNCAPPED service. this is 2x what ntl are charging!

i am sure €ircom look here so lets tell em what price would get loads of buyers!

SantaHoe

€60 would be fine if they didn't charge a kings ransom for going over the download limit
Even still - I think everyone should have free DSL with free installation, a good-will gesture from eircum after they've been robbing us blind with phone bills for years.

phreak

was it €100 they are trying to charge?

i'd pay that if it was uncapped.

of course i'd prefer it alot cheaper, but if thats the price then i'd pay it. of course if it stays capped at that price then eircom can go take a jump off a bridge

LoGiE

I'd be willing to pay €50 uncapped. Hopefully this would drop as other DSL services come available

Chowmein

I would pay €50-€80 for capped IF the was only a very small charge for going over it ( and it was a BIG cap )

ando

€90 - €125 uncapped ..... then again, I just can't get Adsl, I'm going to have to wait til Radsl

Mountjoy Mugger

€60 - €80 pm, uncapped.

pete

Have a read of http://slashdot.org/articles/02/02/05/0346208.shtml , which contains many complaints about US & Canadian DSL fees, and just as many arguments as to why low monthly + uncapped = not economically viable

Red Moose

You can have my answer now if you like. My offer is this -- nothing. Not even the fee for the .... license, which I would appreciate if you would put up personally.


- Michael Corleone, Godfather II

(I thought it was apt)

SkepticOne

In that slashdot article they're complaining about unlimited broadband at 80 Canadian dollars. That's EUR 57 or in the old money IEP 44. Thats the price they regard as profitable.

The people responding to this thread are generally prepared to spend far more than the worldwide average

mike65

For uncapped €50 for but whats the current cap?
I guess €40 for anything less.

Mike.

pete

Originally posted by SkepticOne
In that slashdot article they're complaining about unlimited broadband at 80 Canadian dollars. That's EUR 57 or in the old money IEP 44. Thats the price they regard as profitable.

The people responding to this thread are generally prepared to spend far more than the worldwide average

My point wasn't so much what the americans and canadians are paying for DSL or cable, it was more trying to highlight what seems to be a hefty dose of realism coming from some of the slashdotters about the long term feasibility of current broadband pricing models.

sorry if i wasn't clear about that

Eye

as far as eye can tell, i think eircom are planning to cap it at a mere 3Gb a month ((

personally i would love to get adsl and would think a price of 40-50euros a month would be fair for uncapped, but if it stays capped, then forget it, my trusty 56k modem will suffice for another few years

Arboration

American's and canadian's shouldn't be complaining about such high prices, when over here we'd be more than willing to pay an arm and a leg for such cheap DSL.

kiffer

um

eircom i-stream enhanced
1Mbps downstream/256kbps upstream
Connection fee is E125 (IR£98.45) excl. VAT - Monthly fee is E228 (IR£179.57) excl. VAT.
For eircom i-stream enhanced there is unlimited monthly download allowance.**


**There is an additional charge of 2.36p (3 cent) ex VAT per MB for material downloaded over and above the stated monthly allowance.



I think I'd pay half of that .... and half again for half the 512/128 , so whats that ... 57 euro Excl. vat

Chaos-Engine

Seen as it isn't currently commerically viable under Eircoms rule... What with them tieing up all the Local exchanges from competition... And of course their favourite Real excuse... Economies of Scale, I think the government should be subsidising ADSL and CABLE network infrastructure seen as we r all just ****e at it and u can't leave a private company to invest in an area such as ireland were there really is only room for ONE broadband supplier of the infrastructure(FRIACO comes to mind)... ...

I would only pay €40 a month uncapped with a d/l speed of min 512 kb/s.... Installation should not exist.... U just have to buy(not rent) the modem....

timod

I'd pay probably €60 max for 256k, 24/7. uncapped.

My priority is 24/7 not really the speed though... (whole other arguement, as we've seen )

emmet

Originally posted by Chaos-Engine
.. And of course their favourite Real excuse... Economies of Scale, I think the government should be subsidising ADSL...

I'm not trying to defend Eircon (perish the thought), but it would be unrealistic to expect to get telecommunications services in Ireland for the same price as our friends across the pond precisely because of economies of scale. It is a valid concept.

What definitely is a problem is that Eircon have used this argument to defend charging us 25 times the US cost per unit bandwidth, although now now we're only being screwed by a factor of 12 or so.

Actually, I think that they have overused this to such an extent that people are tired of hearing it, and their doing themselves more harm than good by continuing to use this argument. Chaos-Engine's post illustrates perfectly that Eircon have succeeded in conferring "hoary old chestnut" status on the term "economies of scale" in relation to telecommunications in Ireland.

In short, IMHO, we should accept the "economies of scale" argument up to a factor of, at maximum, two. Equally, we should continue to protest at it being used to defend daylight robbery whether it's Eircon, Esat, or whoever.

Emmet.

flamegrill

I'd pay €60 - €90 for 512/128k ADSL right now.

I'd pay €50 a month for 24/7 dialup though

Clinical Waste

€40 + vat per month UNCAPPED.

If they cap it, they can keep it.

m1ke

suppose i'd pay between 100-120pm but then again i'm a sucker and realistically would only pay 60pm if I had more sense.

Oh yeah, and if they cap it... no matter what speed or price it's at, they can keep it

Clinical Waste

Remove that in case Eircom is reading!

Don't want them to say, "but people want to pay this.."

gandalf

€60 per month for 512K/128k
€80-90 per month for 1MB/256K

UPCAPPED.

Anything else is a rip off.

Gandalf.

Kix

€60 inc. Vat per month for 512K/128k uncapped.

That's it. Anything else is a rip-off on top of the existing cost of line rental.

K

pencil

€50 (€60 MAX) per month for 512K/128k with HIGH CAP (10GB min)

Otherwise I will get myself some wireless kit and join up with the lads at www.irishwan.org .

If that happens eircom can shove their line rental up their ass for nothin!

And I'm a Webdesigner, my parents/brothers/sister would laugh at being asked to pay €50 per month!


Forgot to mention I'm on the ADSL trial - it's great but I can do without it if it's above €60 incl vat.

gurramok

€50 Inc VAT Max for uncapped 512k/128k.

I will not pay any rip-off price, €ircoN want €130.....they will not get that amount of me....i will only pay the same rates as anyone else in Europe, no more !!
I got rid of my isdn at home, no internet access from home anymore, so i will wait as long as it takes until affordable broadband comes !!
No more high bills for me !

end of rant...

lampsie

I'e had the trial now (512/128) since start of January, and after that length of time I've decided I'd keep it on only if:

1. E50 per month or less incl. VAT

2. One way or the other, there's almost certainly going to be a cap, but at least try to make it realistic Eircom...something like 10gig cap, 10 quid a gigabyte after that or something.

On the other hand, a 256/128 (or even something nuts like 128/128) would be nice if it was priced nicely...Speed isn't the most importent factor for me, the fact that you can stay connected for days (with a solid connection) without the family going mental for the phoneline, is

Cheers,
Lamps.

scojones

cause i'm in a bad mood atm, €40 uncapped. DSL sucks though

Lemming

I'd pay E40 (or there abouts) for DSL with a reasonable cap (ie. 10gb) AND/OR reasonable additional costs (ie. £10 per extra GB or something).

I'd pay E50/60 for uncapped.

Speed is a bit of a factor, but 24/7 AND not having the family moaning about the phoneline every 5 seconds would be a HUGE plus

BioHazRd

€50 - €60 inc. Vat per month for 512K/128k uncapped.

If they want to cap it, make it around 10 Gigs

Otherwise they can stuff it

Dustaz

After using it for a long time now, i think that EUR60 for the 512 solo option is a decent price. What they are intending to charge certainly is NOT.

As to the cap. People seem to be freaking out about it. Its not that bad....really. Ive had DSL since August and ive only been over the cap twice and on neither occasion did i get anywhere near 10 gigs.

the 3 gig cap is pretty low, but if im being perfectly honest, a 5 gig cap would be grand for me anyway.

Coyote

I will pay up to €300 a month if they would just sell the dam thing
wiht no cap and Dustaz i hope to god your jokeing about 10gb that is nothing you can do 3gb on a 56K modem for less that the cost of getting the ADSL that eircom are selling it at. so it works out cheeper to use 56k that to get ADSL if your going to stay inside the 3gb limit

Matfinn

I just want to say this. I think people that say they would pay &euro55 and over are forgetting themselves. This price afformentioned is not affordable, and one of the goals of IrelandOffline is to get '*affordable*' and fair broadband flatrate interent access. I personally would not pay anything over &euro55 for broadband internet ( no caps ), or &euro30 Flatrate

Thanks

ando

I think people saying they want Uncapped 512/128 kbps connection for €40 a month are just being unreasonable. You are talking €uro's ??? Thats like what.. 30 punts .... no way are eircom going to be that stupid
I think the best we could ask for is €85 with a 10GB cap. I might be going against the main taughts here, but I agree with the cap, 10GB is about right for €85 a month, but I would expect prices to fall after a year or so. but bloody hell, we're talking about a company that gives the same kind of service (leased line to internet) and they charge thousands for the same kind of bandwidth

pete

Now here's what I don't get - bandwidth does cost money, doesn't it? It's not like it's some unlimited resource, so why shouldn't we have to pay for it?

I'd be interested to hear on what basis people think they should be able to pay a fixed rate for an uncapped service - I suppose the question I'm asking is: Why do people think they're entitled to something for nothing?

I know of one person on the latest DSL trials who (allegedly) went through a several gigs of downloads in the 48 hours after he got connected. On top of (allegedly) maybe half a dozen DivX movies, he's (allegedly) downloaded 3.25gb of mp3's alone - his target is (allegedly) another 1,000 mp3's by the end of the week in case the trial ends when it's supposed to.

Realistically, is it financially viable to offer this level of service across the board for €40/€50/€60 a month?


(I'm not trying to defend eircom's prices here. And yes, I know they're offering uncapped for their most expensive DSL offering.)

Bard

Going to keep this short...

Although I've never experienced ADSL, I'm going to agree fully with Dustaz.

Praetorian

I'm currently paying €100 per month for ISDN (which I consider low because I used to be on alot more)

I would continue to pay €100 per month for NO CAP 512/128k

I would only pay €55-60 ex vat if it had a 3Gig cap

SkepticOne

Originally posted by pete
I'd be interested to hear on what basis people think they should be able to pay a fixed rate for an uncapped service - I suppose the question I'm asking is: Why do people think they're entitled to something for nothing?

I'm not, in principle, against caps. As you say, bandwidth costs money and an uncapped service will use more bandwidth than a capped one. However, surveying broadband offerings worldwide, most seem to be uncapped. This is particularly the case in the US where there is extensive competition competition between cable and phone companies. It looks like capping is something that companies are prepared to drop in order to gain customers in a competitive environment. They seem willing to bear the extra cost for that reason.

I'm not looking for an uncapped service "for nothing", though. I would be prepared to pay a bit more for the certainty of a fixed cost per month. But since a lot of the cost of broadband is related to the initial capital outlay and various fixed costs on the part of the company, I would not expect the uncapped service to be too much more than a capped service.

All the above applies to a competitive market. Not Ireland.

spongebob

I have told the local chamber of commerce about the caps and they are freaked out at the prospect of having NO INTERNET AT ALL for 10 days at the end of any given month because SOME BASTARD shut down their business by sending them 3Gb of email for the crack.

They will recommend that their members AVOID this dangerous capped product.

A fair price for no cap is €60 - 75 a month incl VAT @ 21% for one machine, €120-150 or so for 3-5 machines €250 for an entire network.

Bandwidth outta Ireland has collapsed in price anyway and the country is FILLED with fibre that ain't being used by EShat and €ircon

Give me a break.

M

Dustaz

Originally posted by Muck
I have told the local chamber of commerce about the caps and they are freaked out at the prospect of having NO INTERNET AT ALL for 10 days at the end of any given month because SOME BASTARD shut down their business by sending them 3Gb of email for the crack.

Err, they dont cut you off if you exceed the cap, They charge you for the excess.

pete

I'd be interested to know what international bandwidth actually costs - all the dark fibre in the country isn't going to make a single bit of difference to that figure.

The reason I posted that link to the slashdot story was because of the points raised in it about capped services, "bandwidth hogs", competition, contention and whatnot. It's a good if somewhat long read, with a fair amount of well informed, well reasoned debate.

Oh and just because I'd like to pay £100 for an Audi TT Quattro doesn't necessarily mean it's going to happen. Sometimes we all have to pay a visit to that place i like to call "the real world"


sorry for rambling

Shred

I'd have to say some of you are being a tad unreasonable, but then again so is Eircom's offer

I'd be willing to pay €50 with the current cap and inclusive of vat, although a higher cap would be nice - something like 5GB

SkepticOne

Originally posted by pete
Oh and just because I'd like to pay £100 for an Audi TT Quattro doesn't necessarily mean it's going to happen. Sometimes we all have to pay a visit to that place i like to call "the real world"

If you don't mind me saying so, that's a bit of a stretched analogy. No one is arguing for that kind of discount.

seamus

Well, as someone said before, I'd just like anything 24/7 flatrate. Id pay €40-€50p/m for ADSL ex line rental + VAT or €50p/m for FRIACO incl line rental + VAT (both unlimited obviously)

spongebob

This is a chamber of commerce we are talking about

now they do not want capped adsl just like me.

let €ircon explain it to them.

SkepticOne

I have to admit that I don't know how much ISPs should charge for ADSL. What I want is to see a competitive market with several ISPs each with their own services and prices.

In theory, that is what Eircom's wholesale bitstream product is supposed to give rise to.

After Eircom introduced their ADSL product, their pricing alarmed a lot of people. At the same time the ODTR prevented them from selling it due to what they called "margin sqeeze". This is when a company is both wholesaler and retailer but makes the wholesale price so close to the retail price that other pure retailers can't compete.

The price for the wholesale product has not been released but the extraordinary high price of Eircom.net's retail offering combined with the ODTR's concern about margin squeeze allows us to deduce that Eircom's wholesale bitstream price is very high. I've heard stories that it is around EUR 75 - 80 and there was a story in the paper quoting this figure.

BTW, this wholesale bitstream product does not include connection to the Internet backbone and all caps/bandwidth charges etc. are down to the ISP.

From the above, I would maintain that Ireland's high ADSL charges have nothing to do with bandwidth but are more due to anti-competitive practices in an already uncompetitive environment.

EvilGeorge

I mainly disagree with the cap option.

Charing the likes of a couple of euro per meg after that would work out extremely expensive after that - that would be the option putting me off - I would waste the 3GB limit in a day.

kiffer

is the cap 3GB or 3Gb , and are they being jerks about it, like my HD is 20GB but they are taking gig to be 1000MB not 1024MB ??? and a so on down the line to make things sound bigger?

Mountjoy Mugger

According to the website it's: For eircom i-stream solo the monthly allowance is 3GB

pete

Originally posted by SkepticOne
If you don't mind me saying so, that's a bit of a stretched analogy. No one is arguing for that kind of discount.

Well what do people mean by "uncapped" then? Obviously they don't mean "unlimited", because there's a finite amount of data that can be squeezed down (say) a 256k DSL line over a 30 day period - we accept that there's a physical limit.

So for a 256k DSL connection, does "uncapped" mean "an amount of data no less than the amount which can be downloaded on a 256k DSL line constantly operating at optimal throughput over a 30 day period"

Maybe somebody with a bigger brain than me can work out how much data that would be, and then we can see exactly what people who demand an uncapped service are looking for.

What's the point of all this? I dunno. I'm just curious

TrickyKid

I would waste the 3GB limit in a day

That's exactly the kind of attitude that makes them think they need a cap.

If you are genuinely talking about going through 90 GB per month, then clearly you are an outlier in respect of usage;

As long as there aren't too many outliers operating it would be ok, BUT the reality is, if there are say 10% of the people operating in that fashion it ends up that the moderate user will be charged at a rate that pays for the outliers.

I'd love for that not to be the case but it clearly would be, and as far as I'm concerned I think it is more important the the basic consumer offering is as attractive to the mass market as possible. If a cap allows them to gurantee a lower price then in some ways I'm for it (of course the price they were suggesting comes NOWHERE near a lower price in anyone's book).

People are getting too obsessed about the cap as an issue - you are right 3GB is tight but somewhere between 5-10 would be fine.