I think Star-Trek Enterprise is better than Bab5

Slydice

I do, cos it is

actually TNG is on a level with Bab5

but enterprise just passed both of them

azezil

wooo thems fightin words! And NO your wrong

Shinji

Enterprise is a lot of fun, but it's got a long way to go before it gets to the same kind of level as Season 3 or 4 of B5...

Inspector Gadget

Slydice, you don't have to be Deanna troi to sense that there's some excrement on a collision course with a axial rotary air movement device here...

And for the record, although I'm a die-hard Trek fan, I think B5, if you've watched it all the way through, is just way better. In fact, it's probably going to set the standard for this stuff for years to come - it rocks!!!
Gadget

Saruman

Slydice i recken you started this just for a debate..
I love Startrek.. I like Enterprise a lot but as good as it is its not as good as any of the Star trek series yet, well better than orginal seriels but nothing to TNG ds9 or voyager.. yes the others had their crap moments and in the case of DS9 and Voyager their crap seasons but still they ended up being better.. few liked voyager in the beginning.. by the time they got to the Borg that all changed!! I think Enterprise has the potential to be the best of the lot... for now its not yet there.. maybe next season will be a little better.
as for bab 5.. well i have not been watching it simply because i want to watch it from the beginning.. i saw some on sci-fi and all the movie versions and thought it was great so i stopped watching (yes you heard me right) because i wanted to see it all and not start at the end with no idea whats going on.

c0y0te

B5 is generally considered (by critics and fans alike) to be the best in sci-fi for the following reasons:-

1) 5 year plot / story arc which only a few people knew about when the show began. It was all sorted BEFORE the show kicked off.. which is why the characters, plots and pace was so solid during filming. This is unprecedented.

2) Episode Development. Year one was iffy, because the studio execs were watching JMS and he didn't want to scare them completely. Once they felt comfortable with the show, they left him alone.. and then he really began delivering on the goodies in season 2, 3 and 4. No other show has such development (with the exception of potentially farscape as it matures) on an episode by episode basis. Season 5 was piss poor unfortunately because of contractual disputes uncertainty over the shows future.

3) SFX. The special effects were absolutely perfect. Not too much.. just enough to get you hooked.

4) BAD GUYS - who can match the shadows? Borg perhaps (I will give ST that much).. but not much else.

5) Originality. No other show has portrayed humanity as such an inconsequential element of a millennia old universe, where older races hold the real power. At least not to such an effect.. as far as I know. SGI is doing its best but it just doesn't cut it somehow. Star trek (insert series name here) basically rehashes the same damn stories from each series with different characters and effects. Most of the episodes of the original ST series (from the 60s) have been rehashed in ST:TNG and I've certainly seen the same crap in DS9 and Voyager. Enterprise is too new to judge yet.

6) Depth. The universe which JMS created, and the races, relationships, histories and cultures is absolutely stunning. The closest comparison I can make is the Lord of the Rings books by JRR Tolkien. No other TV show I know of comes close to B5 in this regard.

7) Continuity. There were very few continuity issues with the show, until the last season. This is a key issue when concerned with 5 year story arcs. Without the JMS vision from the start, it would have been messy as hell. It could have ended in 4 years perfectly (if not a little rushed).. but at the last minute it was decided to extend to 5 seasons.. hence the continuity issues.

I could go on, and on... but I will stop here. I am a fan of sci-fi in general, and will gladly take comments and criticism on my notes above in relation to B5 if they are warrented, however I have yet to see any show which comes close to B5 for the reasons stated above.

I thought X-Files would do it.. but it just got lost somewhere in Season 2 and never recovered. I hope farscape will continue to improve. I enjoy ST:Enterprise.. however its early days and as for SGI.. its not bad, but it gets a little repetitive very quickly.

B5 was one of a kind, and worth collecting or at least viewing from start to finish. You won't be dissappointed.

c0y0te

Saruman

What about B5 spin offs like Crusade.. unlike B5 i saw it from beginning to end, i like it but nothing like what little i saw of B5.. though i saw the ship in one of the films!

c0y0te

Unfortunately Crusade was a so-so idea on paper, which never really transferred to greatness on screen because of all the studio hassle and grief around the costs of the proposed show.

It started, tried to be something more than it was.. and failed miserable. Best not to dwell on that particular spinoff.

B5 itself is pure class.. can't say the same about all the spinoffs and made-for-TV movies etc. based in the same universe.

c0y0te

Slydice

Don't get me wrong, I really loved Bab5. The best episode was the one which followed th 2 fix it guys around the station for a day IMHO.

I just seem to prefer enterprise above all sci-fi atm. BTW I should have Mentioned that Stargate is up there aswell,

I can't believe Daniel Jackson is gone ;-(

Ping Chow Chi

I love B5

the fact that it had a long term stroy to tell (one hinted at even in the pilot)

for me the shadows where never the real enemy though - it was the evil pres and his night watch - I think that was what JMS was trying to get through, just how easy it would be for people to slip into the side of darkness.

Saruman

yeah i saw the one with the fix it guys.. very impressive

c0y0te

I just wish the damn show was available on DVD. Anyone know why it was not released on DVD format?

c0y0te

Saruman

What B5? I saw a post around here somewhere about that.. happy searching

Boston

B5 was for the more intelligent viewer, the guy that didnt need a "love story" or a battle every other episode, but wanted long term development, were yo udidnt know what happened nexts, every episode had its reason and added to the grand plan, even if you didnt see it while watchings it for the first time. repeats of the show were as enjoyable as the orginal viewing, because you could look back with that knowleadge and say "awh, yes that is why he did that"

that said, when they did do battle they were excellent, and love stories, what view they did, were tragic, which is allways infinitly more appealing to the viewers then sopy soap style love stories common on startrek, DS9 thankfull made a break for this type of love story, but had afew mishapes in the early seasons.

Farscape, must have the hand of some B5 writers workign at it. orginally it was fluff, that made no real sense.but have started to slowly build archs form season to season, most noticably the love arch between the leading roles, which will climax towards the series finaly imho

Venom

B5 was the show the Trek wish's it was.The one thing that has always let down any Trek series was a lack of evil or badness in any of the characters.Even the Romulans or the Dominion were tame compaired to the B5 races.The Borg tho nasty have been turned into wimps by the Voyagers writers.

B5 had characters that completly hated each other and races that were pure evil.

The 5 year story rocked and I honestly didnt see how most of the shows were going to end or if a character was even going to make it to the end of the series.Trek episodes are never that hard to see coming due to the goody goody to shoes approch the starfleet types are so full of.

Boston

yea gettign rid of sinclear after the first series was a master stroke, as after that you thought it could be anyone

stereo_steve

I'm a big fan of sci-fi, I watch everything , star trek, stargate, outer limits etc. I watched one episode of babylon5 ages ago and decided I didn't like it. It sounds though like i've missed alot! When is it on? If it is on anymore!

Boston

some of the very first episodes were extremely messed up, and plane stupid

Fidelis

Ughh, the age old battle of good vs. evil, Star Trek vs. Star Wars and finally Babylon 5 vs. ... well, nobody.

The one thing, the one teeny weeny thing that they fogot in B5... what was it now? Ah yes music. I found it impossible to watch that show with absolutely no background noise / ambient music whatsoever! It was just so unbelievably boring! Whenever people stopped talking and just walked around, possibly thinking to themselves :rolleyes:, it was as if the sound engineer pressed 'mute'. Man, wreck the head or what.

Secondly, the gfx in B5 were impressive but you saw it once every millenia. Then you've got dull, lifeless sets (queue Jennifer Love Hewitt's thumbs) which left you feeling as though these guys made them in poorly-lit shopping malls.

B5 = boring.

Shinji

Awww Fidelis, didn't it have enough sparkly shiny things to hold your interest?

I suggest you just watch lots of MTV. Plot and characterisation aren't a strong point (but I note you don't care about those anyway) but its got LOTS of shiny things, all the time!

Boston

actually the music in b5 was brilliant, because it was used rights, some of the most dramatical and evocative sounds ive ever heard or yet to hear again. you must be insane to think otherwise

Fidelis

You're always treating me like a child, Shinji! Always!!! /me stamps his feet.

Yes, storyline, plot and characters etc are vital to the success of a show but nothing in B5 gripped me in the way that ST:TNG did. I did like the revolving space ship though, creating it's own gravity and all, but that's about it.

Then again, I suppose if you can accept Hercules as a futuristic space hero you can do just about anything your heart desires

Shinji

It's called suspension of disbelief

Actually yes, I forgot to drag you up on the issue of music. Have you HEARD Christopher Franke's soundtrack CDs from the series? Enough to send shivers down your spine... Unlike TNG, which actually had such unremarkable music that I don't think they ever released any of it seperately.

Fidelis

I haven't watched B5 in a long time, so I can't say I recall the music. I can however recall the lack of ambient noises. I won't bow down before you Babylonians... but for the sake of berating the point, I'll try and give the music a listen. As for TNG music; yes it wasn't great but DS9 had some fantastic music pieces.

jaggeh

i watched babylon 5 from series start to series end, and i loved the pilot episode.

ive seen every episode and every "film" and you have to see the films to get the full story, in my opinion babylon 5 outclasses star trek in MANY ways.

im going to use an analogy now (a comparison for the less intelligent)

i watched babylon 5 like i was reading a series of books, there is one overall storyline, but many sub plots to keep you going until the next part of the main story....

star trek is like reading once off novels about the same thing, entertaining but nothing to make you never want to miss a show.

---

the character development of delen/sheridan, sheridan/garibaldi , londo/g'kar, were absolutly stunning....

plus the way earth thought of itself in "in the beginning" was perfect and more how i see a unified earth than what star trek portrays.
"we handled this piss poor race, yeah sure we can take on the universe pffft membari were better than them" cue 3 year long war that brings mankind to the brink of extinction.

i could talk for hours about bab5

meglome

I was/am a big fan of TNG but I think I still prefer B5 (even if some of the movies were poo). It never had the money of Star Trek but was still damn good. All the same Enterprise is without doubt the best beginning of all the Star Trek series and is looking very good. (Kill the theme song..please)

Inspector Gadget

..what did you think of the "Legend Of The Rangers" movie, veonix? Or anyone else?

Gadget

meglome

Thanks Inspector Gadget (never thought I'd type those words ), I didn't realise that this was being made. Looks interesting...

http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

Boston

ill let you knwo in afew hours i just got it

Boston

it wasnt that great of a "film" but as a pilot to a new series, it wasnt bad, my only problem was the aliens were a little to human if you know what a mean.

Supercell

The Legend of the Rangers "movie" i presume you are referring is to is the pilot tv movie for what hopefully turns into a new series.

Got the opportunity to watch it a few weeks ago and was blown away..talk about a trip down memory lane..i miss B5 so...

Great storyline, great special effects and damn impressive captaincy...Picard...eat yer heart out )