NTL Cable announcement

MiCr0

http://www.ntl.com/locales/ie/en/athome/internet_cable.html

most relavent:
what does it cost?


Always-On 512 €35.00 / £27.56
Always-On 128 €25.00 / £19.69

If you combine ntl's Go Digital pack at €12.70 / £10 a month with one of these services the monthly charge is as follows:

Always-On 512 €30 / £23.63 + Go Digital pack
Always-On 128 €20 / £15.75 + Go Digital pack

Always-On 512 This service is up to 9 times faster than a standard 56K modem, so you can download files and web pages in seconds, not minutes. Enjoy high quality video streaming and online gaming without tedious delays.

Always-On 128 Try this service if you want instant access to broadband content at up to twice the speed of a standard 56k modem. The speed is comparable with ISDN but with even cheaper monthly rates and no call charges.

ntl recommended cable modem Terayon Tj210 €165.32 /£130.20

logic1

<micro bet me to it>

.logic.

MiCr0

and i'm going to get 512 too

Matfinn

When Cablenet in North Dublin announced that they would be releasing cable in Dublin in 1998, I thought it was too good to be true. I was right. Likewise for Cablelink, Eircom, GenesisEurope, Chorus, Esat Fusion, all too good to be true. Dont get your hopes up lads and lasses just yet.

I was thinking today ( like we all do alot of the time ). Do you think that the stalling of the rollout of a decent internet service in Ireland has been done intentionally by the co - operated efforts of the biggest telcos in Ireland, so that when they see that the time is right, (ie: When users become so desperate for Broadband they will pay three times the asking price in the UK ). Do you think this might be an elaborate plan to get loads more profit??

Think about that one.

Matt

< Public announcement: Dont throw milk bottles at old women >

SkepticOne

Originally posted by MiCr0
and i'm going to get 512 too

Let us know how you get on, please.

JamworkS

What happened with the Motorola SurfWave 3100 Cable-Modem series, they used to recommend?

they used to sell them for IR£260 but you could get them, from Motorola's website, with post charges included for IR£230.

they were even better, that they had support for DOCSIS 1.1, a new specification in cable-modem systems, which improved the overall service.

JamworkS

El_MUERkO

I just talked to a nice austrailian girl at NTL.

The cable modem service is only available in the Dublin 24 area and they have no plans to expand at the moment :mad:

ando

so let me get this straight... ntl still are not expanding out of tallaght..... so whats so great about this new offer ???

SkepticOne

'Revolver' (who appears to work for NTL) made it clear that NTL were not in the business of upgrading cable to two-way. This was after his initial "This will blow you away" posting.

ando

well fvck that ... ive had enough of this $hit

MiCr0

+ i live in templeogue
we have it too - as does terenure

Lucifer

Originally posted by MiCr0
+ i live in templeogue
we have it too - as does terenure

i live in templeogue aswell, i have the 56k, 24hr service, which is ok, but is cable going to be available in all upgraded areas or just d24??? does anyone know???

EDIT: i have just rang up, and found out that it will be available in all the upgraded areas ie. tallaght, terenure, templeogue, (not sure what other areas)

SkepticOne

I just phoned them up too. As has been mentioned, there are no plans to upgrade areas not alread upgraded. Great news for those in the two-way areas, though!

Mountjoy Mugger

Let me be clear about this...

According to NTL, their digital rollout is progressing nicely, and some people in other parts of Dublin will soon have their areas upgraded to support Digital TV.

Am I to assume that this upgrade is only "half the job" and they (NTL) will have to go back at a later stage to enable cable modem access to the net? It seems like a bit of a botched job, if that is the case...

regi

So the areas that could get broadband can now get broadband... nothing really new there :rolleyes:

Oh well...

pete

Originally posted by Regi
So the areas that could get broadband can now get broadband... nothing really new there :rolleyes:

Oh well...

My understanding of the situation is that whereas before you could only get cable interweb in Tallaght, NTL are now actually marketing the service to all upgraded areas - as in some places other than Tallaght.

Or have I got the wrong end of the stick altogether?

damnyanks

+ i live in templeogue
we have it too - as does terenure

Terenure dont have it. You have to live on the templeogue road! I'm like 20 yards away from it, you dont know how annoying it is!

SkepticOne

Originally posted by Mountjoy Mugger
Am I to assume that this upgrade is only "half the job" and they (NTL) will have to go back at a later stage to enable cable modem access to the net? It seems like a bit of a botched job, if that is the case...

Except that I don't think they have plans to "go back at a later stage". The currently upgraded areas seem to be Tallaght, parts of Templeogue and Terenure. I live on Templeogue and am upgraded only for digital TV.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by damnyanks
Terenure dont have it. You have to live on the templeogue road! I'm like 20 yards away from it, you dont know how annoying it is!

I believe part of Templeogue road was upgraded as well as Fortfield road and some other areas. The part of Templeogue road I live in was in the middle of upgrading when NTL announced a halt to any further work. For six months there were two cables running along the houses. Around June this year, vans came around and connected up the new cable and removed the old. The guys doing the work said it was for full two-way services, but in fact it they were just upgrading for digitial TV. The old cable was not capable of supporting DTV signals to fullfill their licence requiremnets.

Full two-way services require fibre to the kerb. NTL are nolonger doing this work.

Boston

well its extremely cheap, even cheaper then others, allso i cant see the sense in going o all this trouble of adverstising and doing up a new service if they didnt plan to widen the service,

SkepticOne, maybe you right and ntl arnt doing that work anymore, maybe they are getting the likes of broadband international to do it? or maybe they are using other networks? or maybe they have allot more done they they let on to have

popn'fresh

I'm living in Portmarnock area (beside Malahide) and NTL have ripped up nearly every road here to lay fibre. On the main road too they even ripped up the path completely to lay fibre. That was motnths ago now and i'm just wondering does anyone know if they have plans to upgrade here to a two way network at all???

SkepticOne

Originally posted by «Bo§ton»
well its extremely cheap, even cheaper then others, allso i cant see the sense in going o all this trouble of adverstising and doing up a new service if they didnt plan to widen the service,

They are staying low-key with this price reduction. No press release and nothing in ENN (which normally prints anything ). I belive the 'Revolver' thread was someone testing the water to see how it would be received by others.

SkepticOne, maybe you right and ntl arnt doing that work anymore, maybe they are getting the likes of broadband international to do it? or maybe they are using other networks? or maybe they have allot more done they they let on to have

It is possible that they are upgrading certain areas such as central Dublin for business customers. Also, it is possible that they are installing two-way systems into new housing developements around Dublin. The official line, though remains that they may upgrade areas where they feel there is sufficient demand.

Mountjoy Mugger

I just got a call today from NTL trelling me they are hooking me up to digital on Wednesday (Dublin 1) - the lass didn't know anything about cable access being made available here, but did suggest I chat to the engineer - silly lady - as if I'd pass the opportunity up!


I'll fill you lads in, later.

Boston

if nothing else, this will put presure on eircom, not just in those areas but others, question will be asked how one isp can provide a broadband service at a serverly reduced price to eircom, in the same area and expect to make a profit.

the next week should prove interesting, as we will probably see eircoms and the odtr's reaction to this. reading that page, they seem to make the fact they are the only ones selling broadband in ireland a major selling point.
i cant believe those prices, this proves we can have the same and even better then england. it allso proves that eircom are a load of bull****ers

SkepticOne, please explain what is ment by fibre to the curb, as id be interested in hering about it

SkepticOne

Originally posted by «Bo§ton» SkepticOne, please explain what is ment by fibre to the curb, as id be interested in hering about it

It would be worth looking on the web for information on this. I have a basic understanding but I'm not an expert. Here's what I think I know: With the current system, all the nodes (where the trunk cable system meets the strand that goes along the houses) gets the same signal (i.e. the channels). Therefore you just need to split and amplify the signal at each node in the network. Therefore ordinary coax (but of a higher quality) is used. With interactive two-way services, each node gets a different signal therefore networking is required and the information load is much higher.

MS

Hey coool! its in Dublin!!!! Now all us country guys have to do is wait 5 hmmmm maby 10 years until ye are finished playing with it and move on to something totally better and maby another 2 years after that we might get it :rolleyes: hehehehe

At least its a start guys and hopefully things can only get better


MS

dathi1

Most of Dublin 24 is on high ground.....perfect for amature wireless access to second users elsewhere in the city...the mind boggles.

PiE

Well, all I can say is you damn-lucky people in those areas damn-well better take up the offer so that NTL know there is demand and it is worth their while rolling it out elsewhere.

dathi1

I`ll call them in the morning and let you all know how I get on.

ando

Originally posted by PiE
Well, all I can say is you damn-lucky people in those areas damn-well better take up the offer so that NTL know there is demand and it is worth their while rolling it out elsewhere.

ditto

Boston

if this is a success and ntl go on to releash it in other areas of dublin, it will be a huge help to the ioffl campaign, it will decredit alot of what eircom has being saying
no demand,
cant make money,
to expensive
cant be as cheap as england

dathi1

Well I rang NTL and they said that it wasn't available in my area of Dublin 24. They said it was only available in parts of Dublin 24, 16, and 6w. OK.....so I rang again on behalf of friends of mine in these areas using their account numbers (with their permision of course)....and?? same thing.. " no its not available at your premises only in some areas....this is beginning to sound like a market research stunt.

Boston

well it was nearly 6 weeks after they laucned digital tv, before you could get it.
in fact i rang up shortly after it was launched and they told me i couldnt get it, but now i can

beomont

Considering it is so cheap would it be possible to get two or more lots of Internet-cable into your house if you were willing to pay two or more yearly subs.

exiztone2k

Will either of the 2 be available in bray/shankill.

flamegrill

regardless of wheather its gona be available to people, by:
"Always-On 512" do they mean 512k up and down? and the same goes for 128k. anyone know, or care to share?

megavolt

As far as I know the 512k downlink gives you a 128k upload, and the 128k gives you a 64k upload. Also apparantly you're not allowed to host a web server I guess these rates aren't too bad - unless you want to upload to one.

kamobe

Whomever provides me high-speed access, at a reasonable price first - will sign me up. I live in blanchardstown....

Why can't the telco's see this? The first company to offer a "reasonable" service is gonna clean up. I'm hopeing it's not eircom, cause i'd much prefer to give my money to someone else, they way they've been carrying on......

But - honestly - if they did just release adsl tomorrow, AT A REASONABLE price - i'd dive on it.

This NTL offer looks promising, but then it looked promising a couple of years ago when they promised to bring boradband to the entire city.

Dustaz

I know i got slapped for this a few weeks ago, but this is what pisses me off about this board.
NTL have done nothing, and i mean NOTHING new here for people who werent already in the special areas. New price for existing customers and thats it.

Originally posted by kamobe

This NTL offer looks promising, but then it looked promising a couple of years ago when they promised to bring boradband to the entire city.

Exactly. NTL can offer free sex and beer for all i care, unless i see some sort of timetable for upgrades in NEW areas, i couldnt care less.

LLU is taking place, and theres only a few threads about it, but every time a word is breathed about ntl we get 2 pages of romour and supposition.

For the record, Tallaght, Tempelogue and Terenure (temelogue road area) were upgraded the first time and cable available, untill ntl stopped in their tracks and as far as i know, withdrew from selling to new customers.

smokin' an'chewin' man

Originally posted by Dustaz

Exactly. NTL can offer free sex and beer for all i care, unless i see some sort of timetable for upgrades in NEW areas, i couldnt care less.

I would suggest that NTL are begining to look as much a heap of manure as Eircom and can look forward to a major negative image if they continue this way. Comptetion WILL come someday and I intend to remember who f###ed with us.

pete

What a lot of people here seem to be saying is "I don't have NTL two way cable in my area, so it doesn't matter."

That's kind of funny, because I didn't think Ireland Offline was about 'Me' - I thought it was about 'Us'....

Well see now, it does matter - NTL are once again making a broadband service available to a huge number of people.

So it's not available in your area - boo hoo. It's not available in mine either.

But it is available once again to quite a few other people - and this is progress.

What you seem to be forgetting is that NTL's 512k with no caps completely undermines Eircom's position on pricing - why do eircom need caps and bandwidth restrictions when NTL don't?

Why is it that NTL can provide this service at such a reasonable price, and Eircom can't?

At least NTL have an excuse for not proceeding as fast as we'd all like - To roll out DSL, Eircom just need to stick a few poxy boxes into their exchanges. For NTL to roll two way cable out citywide would take a massive amount of road digging.

(note: possible slight oversimplification alert)

edits: multiple edits to finish sentences...

corkey

Hi


Just been talking to ntl as i got digtal TV from them last last
week the bloody thing flickers all the time you cant turn of the box ,Its a pace box i would not recomend it, So if this is digtal
god help broadband

Boston

Dustaz, so what, eircom havent done at thing it the way of llu or broadband, yet continue to claim they have. if all this does is to put a little pressure on eircom, then why wouldnt we be happy

Dustaz

pete, im NOT talking about me only.
ill try one last time. this is NOT new news. this does not affect THE VAST MAJORITY OF INTERNET USERS IN DUBLIN, NEVER MIND THE COUNTRY.
ntl are not making it available to a 'vast number of people', they are RELAUNCHING THE SAME PRODUCT TO THE SAME PEOPLE.

I agree that thier price makes a mockery of eircoms dsl price, but its hardly a new price is it? its not that diferent from what it was when they originally launched it a year and a half ago. Id take ntls deal in a minute, its fast cheap and seems like a good service according to those already on it (from the original launch, did i mention that was a year and a half ago?:) )


which moves us handily onto eircom.

Dustaz, so what, eircom havent done at thing it the way of llu or broadband, yet continue to claim they have. if all this does is to put a little pressure on eircom, then why wouldnt we be happy

umm, Eircom have as far as they are concerned unbundled. any company can take advantage of it if they are prepared to pay the ludicrous prices eircom want. Eircom (and ive asked laywers about this) are not legally obliged to do anything else pending the outcome of the ODTRs legal challenge.
Its the exact same thing with thier dsl rollout. They have it all ready to go in a number of exchanges with the rest to follow very soon after launch. they cannot proceed because they are also tied up in court because of ludicrous pricing.

In both these cases, we see the prices as untenable, but they dont. All they have to do is set the prices and and they have.

im open to correction in all this btw, but id love to see more of you lads in irc and then we could discuss it more in depth.

im open to correction on all this lads

SkepticOne

Originally posted by Dustaz
I agree that their price makes a mockery of eircoms dsl price, but its hardly a new price is it? its not that diferent from what it was when they originally launched it a year and a half ago. Id take ntls deal in a minute, its fast cheap and seems like a good service according to those already on it (from the original launch, did i mention that was a year and a half ago?:) )

It does make a mockery of Eircom's prices, and so does Chorus Powernet which has been available for some time now. Indeed, so do the majority residential broadband schemes throughout the world.

This does not seem to matter to Eircom. What matters to them is broadband being offered in new areas by competitors. Prior to this reduction in prices, Eircom had already lost in Tallaght. Noone there is going to take I istream at £105 per month for a capped service.

Same with Chorus powernet. Even take-up hasn't been great due to it's 3 gig cap, at £40 per month its a far better deal.

So there have been competing product at far better prices out there for some time.

umm, Eircom have as far as they are concerned unbundled. any company can take advantage of it if they are prepared to pay the ludicrous prices eircom want. Eircom (and ive asked laywers about this) are not legally obliged to do anything else pending the outcome of the ODTRs legal challenge.pricing.

Not strictly the case. The current price is the one set by the ODTR. Initially Eircom wanted three times the European average price. Most of OLOs (other licenced operators) lost interest at that point. After failing to justify their price to the satisfaction of the regulator, the ODTR was forced to intervene and evaluate the costs and the a price was set. Eircom are now disputing this price in the courts (anyone know the status of this?). Unfortunately, this has created uncertainty and not many OLOs are interested in taking up LLU here.

Its the exact same thing with thier dsl rollout. They have it all ready to go in a number of exchanges with the rest to follow very soon after launch. they cannot proceed because they are also tied up in court because of ludicrous

They're not tied up in court. The ODTR has not yet approved their wholesale charges (believed to be EUR75).

Quite right too, IMO. EUR 75 is £59 pounds. Plus VAT thats £71. That's the wholesale price. In Britain, ISPs charge a markup of around £10. This is on a high volume product. Because of it's price here, take up will be so low that the markup will be higher, say £25 (inc VAT). This brings the price up to £96 pounds. This puts the retail price very much into the business niche. Will it be worth the while of ISPs to get £25 per month for a few hundred customers?

In both these cases, we see the prices as untenable, but they dont. All they have to do is set the prices and and they have.

Yes. Because to Eircom, ADSL is not a vital product. Most of their customers will be those paying through the nose for other Eircom products. Eircom don't really stand to gain and so they're making sure that nobody else does either. All they stand to lose is their image as a leading edge company but they lost that some time ago anyway.

dahamsta

im open to correction on all this lads

<monty burns>excellent</monty>

umm, Eircom have as far as they are concerned unbundled. any company can take advantage of it if they are prepared to pay the ludicrous prices eircom want. Eircom (and ive asked laywers about this) are not legally obliged to do anything else pending the outcome of the ODTRs legal challenge.

The legal challenge is in the opposite direction, i.e. Eircom are challenging the ODTR. Quick rundown

1. Eircom made a reference pricing offer
2. ODTR didn't like said reference offer and set pricing as an average of European countries
3. Eircom didn't like ODTR method and challenged Regulator

Of course in between we had plenty of infighting, with Eircom saying the ODTR wasn't responding in a timely manner, and vice versa. We'll never know which is the case, but you can guess who's side I fall on. The same goes for bitstream...

Its the exact same thing with thier dsl rollout. They have it all ready to go in a number of exchanges with the rest to follow very soon after launch. they cannot proceed because they are also tied up in court because of ludicrous pricing.

As far as I know, this argument hasn't found itself in court yet, although the indications are that it will. There doesn't seem to be any progress. You're assertion is correct though - if the pricing problem can be fixed, i-Stream can be rolled out to most of Dublin almost overnight, and most of the country fairly rapidly after that.

And the problem remains one of pricing. Eircom are being greedy. The pricing they're looking for is absolutely scandalous, and it would be wrong for the Regulator to accept it. However, I think most of the committee will agree that we're not looking for miracles here. I've said it over and over again, and keep saying it: I'm looking for fair products for fair prices, no more, no less. I have no objection to Eircom making a few quid, but the prices have to be cost-oriented. Over a hundred pounds for i-Stream Solo is not cost-oriented.

adam

Boston

before we get side tracked on llu, (i know its down to me)

ill take you up on your point on prises.
orgianlly cable interent was 50 a month and i think installation was dubble what it is now. i also heard but never confirmed reports that the prices short up to 75 a month.
so yes, either way this is a huge come down on ntl prices, the structure and nature of these prices can only lead me to believe they are gearing up to take on eircom the same way they are BT, but as you say, only time will tell.

pete

I too, will try one.... last.... time

Originally posted by Dustaz
pete, im NOT talking about me only.

Fair enough - I just think that there's a danger that people won't appreciate progress (which this development is in my opinion ) unless it directly affects themselves...

ill try one last time. this is NOT new news. this does not affect THE VAST MAJORITY OF INTERNET USERS IN DUBLIN, NEVER MIND THE COUNTRY.

This really depends on whether or not the service was actually available or not before last Monday - not living in an area upgraded for two way cable I don't know this for sure, but hasn't it already been established that NTL discontinued taking applications for the service some time ago?

Either way, this affects 30,000 households / 30,000 people ( i wish i could remember the source for that figure because i can never remember which it is.. I understand there's over 70,000 people in Tallaght, though) and even on the price issue alone I would consider this to be an ever so slightly important development, worthy of being described as "news".

It means that a broadband service is now (or 'again', if you prefer) available at a very reasonable cost to more people than you'd find in entire cities in "the regions".

ntl are not making it available to a 'vast number of people', they are RELAUNCHING THE SAME PRODUCT TO THE SAME PEOPLE.

See above.

I agree that thier price makes a mockery of eircoms dsl price, but its hardly a new price is it?

Yes it is.

And it's a pricing structure that can be held up and waved in Eircom's face every time they claim that it's not cost effective to provide a residential service with higher download caps (or no caps at all).

This also is news.

its not that diferent from what it was when they originally launched it a year and a half ago.

Yes it is - it's cheaper.

Id take ntls deal in a minute, its fast cheap and seems like a good service according to those already on it (from the original launch, did i mention that was a year and a half ago?:) )

Yes, you did.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to have a go at you - I just think that we've all gotten so used to the pathetic state of affairs here that it can be hard to appreciate progress - how ever incremental that progress may be.

Plus it's late, it's been a long day, and i'm rambling.

qtzar

Just to answer two questions that appeared in this thread...

You cannot get two cable modems / subscriptions in a single location. There is no technical reason just an NTL decision.

You are allowed run servers on you NTL cable modem service as long as you abide by the AUP. In the past the AUP did say that you were not allowed run servers but now it has been updated to say you can.

All I can say is that I have been using NTL Cable service for the past year at £50 a month so I am very happy at this price decrease. Just wish they would start testing the 1mbit service

seamus

/me almost in tears

I lived in D.16 for 19 years and moved out 6 months after they laid the cables :(:(:(:(:(:(

NeVeR

I havent read all the posts so someone might have said this already.

But there new Price is good . BUT you have to get your own Modem and someone to install it , witch costs around £300 ,