which 3d graphics card?

MiCr0

i'm buying a new computer atm i'm wondering which 3d card should i get
options are:
32mb nvidia m64
diamond viper 32mb tnt2
ati rage 128 16mb
voodoo 3 3000 16mb
any ideas?

MiCr0

Karla

I've got the nVidia M64 and I think it's excellent. But why not go for the GeForce 256? It would be well worth it.

acous

check for a button that says "this is the best 3d card" and click at it

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or am i just a nutter?

BugBlaster

umm if yer getting a geforce.. be warned... it does not like any version of Unreal at the mo.... ask me... ive one an im not a happy camper
q3 runs brillo on it.... 119fps without a tweak cant be bad at 1024 res

Hecate

really depends on what game your playing.

but if your looking for a good all rounder you cant go far wrong with a Xentor TNT2 Ultra or Viper V770, both damn fine cards, the next best thing to having a GeForce.

Chubby

nvidia m64 cards? Arrrrgh, they're not exactly bad but they are no way as good as tnt2s. If you want to get a tnt2 get the tnt2-pro chipset instead of the normal ones and tnt2 ultras.

Elsa and Gigabyte are the only 2 manufacturers who makes tnt2-pro cards as far as I know. You will find reviews for them on Firingsquad.com, sharkyextreme etc if you want to know more about them. As for availability. I've only seen the Elsa one for sale on http://www.insight.com/uk. Just do a search for "tnt2 pro". Elsa Erazor III pro i think is the full name.

Or if you want you can go all out and buy a GeForce.

kstop

Matrox G-400 Max 32Mb card runs about 170/190
quid if you order it from their site. Took
a mere three days to deliver it too.

Haven't got into checking frame-rates yet,
but it runs 1024x768x16bit q3 very smoothly
indeed (on a 433 MHz Celeron).

K.
-

Chubby

Waaa, them G-400s are expensive. You can get a GeForce for that price and I've seen DDR GeForce going for 160 sterling (ex vat and delivery).
Tnt2-pros are selling for about 95 sterling (ex vat and delivery of course). They are as good if not better than Tnt2 ultras.

elexes

ive a voodoo 3000 and a ddr ge-force for the moment id go for the voodoo as the ge-force aint to friendly with everything but it will be good once the bugs are gone .

Kali

160 sterling ex vat and delivery
so about 250 irish then.
not exactly g400 price.

Chubby

I didn't say DDR GeForce are cheap I'm actually waiting for the Voodoo4 to come out so this will go down a bit before I get one.

You can get a standard GeForce for that G400 price. G400 should not cost that much anyway. And I can order stuff without paying vat anyway so that DDR won't be more than 200 quid for me. If you really want a G400 there's one on ebid.ie going for 32 quid at the moment. Ooops, wait, that's a Savage4 going for 32 quid.


[This message has been edited by Chubby (edited 09-03-2000).]

Chubby

http://www.insight.com/cgi-bin/bp/144075865/uk/products/vild1001.html

WinFast GeForce SDR for 99 sterling ex vat and delivery.

WhiteWashMan

hmm, i saw one in game yesterday fr 169 quid.
or maybe thats the lower spec one.
not that interested in graphics cards these days.
i'll stick with my trusty voodoo(i play every game and always work no matter what unlike other graphics cards )3

MiCr0

wwm is the voodoo 3 ne good?
which version u got? the 16mb?

WhiteWashMan

all the voodoo3s are 16 mg.
just depends what flavour.
i have the 2000 coz i already have an onboard agp card so i have to use pci and i couldnt find the v3 3000 pci version.
anyway, its about 70 quid now and it does the job very nicely. have never had one bit of problem and it does all the jobs i ask of it. i even have a nice little overclocker so if you buy one and want to up the speed all you neeed to do is add your own fan or heatsink or whatever and i'll email you the program. its only about 48k
oh, yeah. the card is good
probably wont give 5 million fps like the gforce, but there are absolutely no compatability problems with it, and with the wicked gl drivers instead of the 3dfx ones, it really speads it up noticably in q3...

Chubby

Don't mean to start a voodoo3 vs other cards debate but why do you (MiCrO) want a voodoo3 when there are better cards out there like the tnt2 for roughly the same price?

There is a new Quake3 videocard shootout article in www.firingsquad.com and if you look at the benchmarks, the tnt2 beats the voodoo3 every time. The voodoo3 will be outdated within a month when the voodoo4 comes out. The voodoo4 will have exactly the same performance as a voodoo3 except it'd support 32bit colours etc.

[This message has been edited by Chubby (edited 16-03-2000).]

MiCr0

correct me if (when) im wrong
but
best geforce
second tnt-2
third voodoo3

right?

Chubby

Net is too congested to check the performance of the cards on that firingsquad article but the new ViperII and the ATI Fury Max are better than tnt2s and voodoo3s. Then again they are the next (same as GeForce) generation of vid cards.

Times have changed basically. If you want the best of the last generation of vid cards, i'd get the tnt2 ultra or the tnt2 pro. If you don't need one in a hurry then you should probably wait a month or 2 for the price of the GeFOrce to drop and the drivers to mature.

[This message has been edited by Chubby (edited 16-03-2000).]

MiCr0

the reason i asked about these cards
is that they come with the new pc's from
gateway and dell

MiCr0

MiCr0

do they build systems?

Chubby

I think they do yeah, just call them up and ask.

MiCr0

just looked @ prices...
with sterling atm not cheap

Vincent

wwwman can u send me that overclocking program for voodoo 3's ?, and where can i download the wicked gl drivers?

My email is eamonndeegan@hotmail.com

Chubby

Oh god, no, OEM voodoo3s? Arrrgh.
Well what will you be using the PC for?

Personally I'd stay away from Gateway and Dell machines if you really must get one, I'd suggest (just my opinion, people feel free to disagree) with the diamond viper 32mb tnt2 option.

MiCr0

look at the two systems in the athlon post in tech....
that will be something like the system that i'm going to get
ie around 600-650mhz with 128mb ram

it will prob be used for games/net/work
about even amount of all

MiCr0

Chubby

Ahhhh
If you really want an athlon system check out www.overclockers.co.uk
Trust me, take a look.
(gone for early lunch )

WhiteWashMan

you can get the wicked gl drivers from http://www.wicked3d.com/products/wickedgl/default.htm

afaik it just replaces the voodoo drivers, so if you dont have a voodoo, i dont think it will work
they will work on loads of games as the wicked drivers or if its not supported oit will act like normal voodoo drivers
mail me and i'll just reply and attach the overclocker.
i'll prolly have forgotten all about this post by the time i get home

Vincent

I've tried the wicked gl drivers with glquakeworld, but it's not as good as minigl 1.48. Email to what address WWWman?
Can u send the overclocking program to eamonndeegan@hotmail.com?

Stephen

I use the WickedGL drivers with my voodoo2/P200 on Half Life and the framerate improvement is fabulous I can actually walk around in large open areas without experiencing a slideshow...which is what happened with 3dfx MiniGL...

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- Munch
- Visit The Fortress

elexes

who said the v3 cant do 32 colours well unless im seeing things which i dont think i am im allowed to chouse that option . hmmmmm think someone got that one wrong

Chubby

Originally posted by elexes:
who said the v3 cant do 32 colours well unless im seeing things which i dont think i am im allowed to chouse that option . hmmmmm think someone got that one wrong

If you said something as ignorant as that half a year ago when the debate between tnt2 and voodoo3 was heating up, this thread would be filled with flames by now .

Gerry

The Tnt has better image quality but 32bit colour by itself does not make much difference. However I consider fps to be important. I get more fps on my 3dfx voodoo banshee than when I tried a tnt2 ultra in the machine. This is with most of the detail turned down, of course. So for fps at medium low resolutions I would choose 3dfx. That said I would now reccomend the geforce as the new drivers really make use of its features. ie 20-30% fps boost in q3. I'm getting a geforce anyway.

Chubby

Errr, Gerry, are you saying the banshee is faster than the tnt2? Are you comparing the fps of a game running in 32bit on a tnt2 to the fps you get on a banshee at untra low resolution with most details turned off? Which game are you basing this on? The tnt2 is way faster than a voodoo3 and to say that the banshee is faster is just asking for it. If fps is important then you are recommending the wrong card.

The cpu speed in your system (whatever it is) is probably preventing your tnt2 from giving you a better fps score. Graphics card do not magically gives you faster fps in games if your cpu is slow. If that's the case then don't waste your money on a GeForce.

As for image quality. Yeah, 32bit don't make a big difference if the textures the game is rendered from were 16bit in the first place. That's why a lot of people don't think it makes a difference because most games until recently don't use big, 32bit textures. In newer games like Quake3, you will see a big difference.



[This message has been edited by Chubby (edited 22-03-2000).]

Chubby

Yes, voodoo3 gives UT better performance but that's only because Unreal was written and optimised for glide and the D3D and opengl code was always very bad. If all you want is to play UT then fine, buy yourself a brand new voodoo3. And does your dad and yourself have the exact same system, same cpu speed and everything apart from the graphics card?

Everyone knows at this stage which is the better card and will last you longer without me having to repeat myself. I'm not saying people should replace their voodoo3s with tnt2s or geforce. All I am saying is voodoo3s is a bad buy compared to tnt2s or other cards if you want to buy one now. Games are starting to support big textures and 32bit rendering and no one writes games just for glide anymore.


[This message has been edited by Chubby (edited 22-03-2000).]

Gerry

I said at the start of my post that tnt has much better image quality. What i was saying was that if you turn the detail down, in quake 3 the tnt/tnt2 gives lower fps. Also when playing q3, adding bots kills the fps on a tnt/tnt2/geforce (about halves with 6 bots)
I am comparing like with like i.e. identical detail settings 16bit on both cards.
I have seen this on other machines, not just my own. whereas on the banshee it does not affect fps as much. Do you perhaps think that I am making this up. Oh yes and I am running a p3 550 so tis not really the cpu

[This message has been edited by Gerry (edited 22-03-2000).]

Chubby

What? Are you saying if you turn the detail downs in Quake3 for both cards, you get a higher fps on a voodoo banshee? Or are you just turning the details down on the voodoo card? Are you confused between a voodoo3 and a voodoo banshee? A banshee is NOT a voodoo3 and it doesn't have the fillrate to even compete with a tnt2. And are you saying you don't get a fps hit when you run bots using the voodoo card?


[This message has been edited by Chubby (edited 22-03-2000).]

MiCr0

Right then:
in one word what card would you's recommend?

MiCr0(none the wiser)

Score So Far:

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Geforce 1

[This message has been edited by MiCr0 (edited 22-03-2000).]

Chubby

Micro, it really depends on what you can afford and what overall system you are putting the card in. If you can afford it, get a GeForce (the DDR one). If you want somethin a little more affordable and that'd last you a while before you need to upgrade, get a tnt2 ultra or a tnt2 pro.

Excelsior

Chubby is a gombeen nerdlinger.
Gerry has a banshee. It doesnt have voodoo3 written on it. he is aware of the implications this has.
his card is not a voodoo 3.
wait! i'm writting it on a piece of paper and flashing it across the lab at him. do you think he'll need diagrams chubster?
It does have the awesome gloware.
Dont patronise him (chubster ) for he will strike down upon thy nerdiness with great vengeance and furious (veins in my head are popping im so angry at the travesty that has passed here) anger and you will know its name is Glondoor... basically BÍ CÍUIN!!!

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We are superfriends
Super friends are we

Gerry

I'm sorry for dragging this on but I have to finish what I started. First of all, if you read my post chubby, I said identical detail settings on both cards. Also, I think I know the difference between a voodoo3 and a banshee. If u turn the detail down, the fillrate of the banshee is able to produce fps of a minimum 80, average 100 max 200. Timedemo 1 100fps Timedemo using the EXACT same settings on a tnt 70fps on a tnt2, 80fps
The fps hit with 6 bots on the banshee is about 10-20%. On a tnt/tnt2 it goes anywhere from 40-60%. Thats all I have to say about that. I am buying a geforce and a coppermine cpu so that I can play q3 without it looking like shoih. And so I can hammer the keyboard faster, ie at the speed of thought. BTW that last sentence was a joke.

Chubby

Excelsior:
Are you just a bored trekkie who likes to annoy people and not add anything to an ongoing discussion because star trek is not on?

[This message has been edited by Chubby (edited 22-03-2000).]

Gerry

rofl

Gamblor

The V3 is your only man ( Card ?)
Anyway , it works on everything and it's seems well at least for me to run better on most games than my dads tnt2 !!!! esp on UT !!!!

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***** Feel my Evil Neon Claws *****

Ex_hale

test, soz just checkin if im still regged on the new boards

Excelsior

I am a trekkie? Chubbster you must be a psychologist to make such a devastating analysis of my psyche. Boy you really can read people.
Janis Joplin was good wasn't she Chubster?
C++ is a fatally flawed language.
Bambiasaourous verifies the dinosaur->bird evolution.
Contrary to popular opinion, in the year 1,000, people believed the world to be round.
Chubster is an arrogant ijit.
Bye now.

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We are superfriends
Super friends are we

Chubby

Okay I'm sorry. I thought you're a trekkie because star trek is the only think I can link your name to without looking it up. I guess you're just a repressed homosexual who is taking out his frustration on me. Afterall, what did I ever do to you. That star trek thing wasn't even remotely insulting unless you have a deep and illogical hatred of the series (pun intended) and the rest of the thread certainy doesn't concern you. Why are you even reading this thread anyway or are you just sad enough to read every thread on every board just to look for someone to start a flame war? Go download some gay pr0n and jerk off or something, leave me alone.



[This message has been edited by Chubby (edited 23-03-2000).]

Koopa

ok, i think an SDR GeForce is your best option, or else a TNT2 / TNT2ultra (not an m64, theyre roughly as bad as a tnt1 overall)

as for the tnt2 debate, the reason youre getting higher fps on the voodoo probably IS because of your p550, nvidia's drivers are more cpu-intensive than 3dfx's, a p550 is NOT fast enough in q3 so that you can totally disregard cpu clock speed with any current generation video card, unless youre running with the graphics on full or something (up to 800*600 resolution anyway)

what fps do you get on your voodoo banshee?
i used to get 115 fps in timedemo demo001 on my tnt2(800*600, p600 processor), clocked at 161/179 (a xentor ultra is 175/183), using my cfg, and if i turned down the details to minimum i got 119 fps

oh yeah, if you own a tnt2, the fastest drivers released by nvidia so far are detonator 2.08, dont use detonator 3.xx because theyre all ****e

Chubby

Lo Koopa:
Quick question. Why do you consider the SDR GeForce to be the better option then the DDR GeForce? Price? Just curious.

Gerry

If its price your worried about on the geforce, I can get you a creative ddr geforce for about 180.
sam: on my banshee in win98 using my config
(not terrible image quality)vertex lighting fancy graphics options off, 640 * 480, full texture detail, 100 fps. Now in win2k, the timdemo1 has gone down to 86. On lan or with no bots the fps seems nearly as high but whereas before I could comfortably play with 8 - 10 bots if i wanted,now putting more than 4 bots in drags the frame rate down by half. I'm putting win98 back on so I can have a constant 120 + fps and getting a coppermine 600 and a geforce so I can play it without it looking worse than glquakeworld(in my opinion , q3 on lowest detail with "high fps" configs looks worse than glqw)