Dumping NTL TV and keeping NTL BB

lensman

Hi all,
I want to cancle both my NTL analogue and digital TV service but keep my NTL
broadband service, can they object to this ? I'd rather go back to sky, better
stb, better gui and a few better documentary channels, also with itv going FTV
it more tempting now.l

Mossy Monk

lensman wrote:

can they object to this ?

afaik it is ntl televison with broadband or nothing at all

lensman

I know their T&C's state that you must take the analogue TV service in order to
get the digital TV package but I can't seem to find an answer to my question,
I'll call them on Monday to make sure.

paulm17781

Last I checked you had to have anaolgue TV too. Since it is unencrypted, if you get BB you will have TV so they have to charge.

Jessica

yes paulm is right - you need to have the tv service to avail of broadband from ntl!

bk

What paulm17781 and Jessica said and in fairness you can understand the reason why, everyone would simply get BB, cancel TV and still use it.

Anyway call them and ask anyway, if you threaten to drop both TV and BB they often offer a special deal such as free analogue TV for 12 months. I got this deal when I signed up for BB

lensman

I can see your points,...I also just came to the end of the 12 months free analogue service and I never watched it once over the course of the year, why would you when you have the digital package as well. I'll argue that my BB subscribtion of €35 p/m is a very expencive way to get poor quality TV reception,
if all else fails I will indeed tell them to take it all out, then switch back to SKY
who are offering me deals to return and I'm sure I can find another supplier who can give me 2mb BB for €35p/m,..
I'll let you know what NTL have to say

paulm17781

Unless you get Smart you will not get BB for as little as €35. You will have to pay Eircom line rental to all the others.

deco76

Maybe NTL should consider their Analogue service as a bonus to Digital TV/Broadband Packages... I think their BB is excellent but being forced to pay €19.50 on top of your €35 for the 3mb makes it too expensive!!

paulm17781

deco76 wrote:

Maybe NTL should consider their Analogue service as a bonus to Digital TV/Broadband Packages... I think their BB is excellent but being forced to pay €19.50 on top of your €35 for the 3mb makes it too expensive!!

The only way they will do this is if they up the Digital price to 29.50 and give "free" analogue connections to every subscriber.

lensman

I think the ploy of offering the digital TV package for €10 extra could backfire on NTL,..
how long do they intend to supply an analogue service ? and if/when they discontinue it will they jump the digital price up to €30.
Why don't they supply dual tuner digital boxes so that we can real multiroom viewing not the half analogue half digital system the flog at the moment.

What about new customers who don't want analogue TV at any price and are looking at sky and ntl to supply a digital only package ?....a big selling point ntl had over sky was the fact that with sky we in the south could not get UTV & C4 but now that ITV has followed BBC's lead and are about to go FTV/clear and possible C4 to follow soon ntl's dominence will be no more.

I would consider staying with ntl if the give me a 2nd digibox free of charge
that way I would have real multiroom viewing .

bk

lensman wrote:

I would consider staying with ntl if the give me a 2nd digibox free of charge
that way I would have real multiroom viewing .

Well at just €5 for a 2nd digital box, it really isn't that expensive, Sky charge €15 for the same.

I expect that in the future, the analogue service will become just a free bonus with the Digital Package or with a BB package.

I expect they will have something like 40 - 50 channel digital + "free analogue" for about €20 and 120 digital TV for €30 or a BB package.

NTL:UK (yes I know they have nothing to do with NTL:Ireland but they are still a good guide for future developments) already does something like this.

They will be forced to do this, by the value of their basic analogue package being eroded by Irish DTT and Freesat and the need to move towards higher value servcies.

lensman

It's been awhile since the last post on this topic but this is still p***ing me off a bit, just to remind folk,... I want to keep ntl broadband and get rid of their TV package and switch back to Sky, I have read and re-read the ntl T&C's and can't find anything in them which would prohibit this,..does anyone know 100%
if it's a non runner ?.

Cal

I was about to reply and ask if it is really that difficult to just ring them and ask. Then I remembered from back in the days when I was with NTL that YES it is that difficult to contact them.

Mind you I'm sure you could find an hour free at some stage to put in that call.

Cal.

KTRIC

lensman wrote:

It's been awhile since the last post on this topic but this is still p***ing me off a bit, just to remind folk,... I want to keep ntl broadband and get rid of their TV package and switch back to Sky, I have read and re-read the ntl T&C's and can't find anything in them which would prohibit this,..does anyone know 100%
if it's a non runner ?.

I'm in exactly the same boat at the moment. I want to keep the broadband but get rid of the rest.

lensman

Cal wrote:

I was about to reply and ask if it is really that difficult to just ring them and ask. Then I remembered from back in the days when I was with NTL that YES it is that difficult to contact them.

Mind you I'm sure you could find an hour free at some stage to put in that call.

Cal.

I know what you mean,!! I am putting in for a day's leave on Tuesday just to be sure,...;)

KTRIC

lensman wrote:

I know what you mean,!! I am putting in for a day's leave on Tuesday just to be sure,...;)

Don't bother taking a day off, I spoke to them about 2 days ago and tried to cancel everything except BB and it's not possible. There is no movement on their T&C's.

lensman

K-TRIC wrote:

I'm in exactly the same boat at the moment. I want to keep the broadband but get rid of the rest.

I've had enough of the stupid NTL box freezing and blacking out not to mention that awful city channel crap in the mini screen every time your viewing the program guide,:mad:

With Sky's new subscription options I can get the channels I want and save a few euro as well.

lensman

K-TRIC wrote:

Don't bother taking a day off, I spoke to them about 2 days ago and tried to cancel everything except BB and it's not possible. There is no movement on their T&C's.

does it actually mention that in the T&C's or are they just saying you can't do it ?

KTRIC

lensman wrote:

does it actually mention that in the T&C's or are they just saying you can't do it ?

I didn't read the t&c's myself, but I have been told this recently by 2 people in their cancellation department. They simply will not give you BB without the basic cable service.

I personally haven't used my cable since I got it installed, I don't see the reason for it when I have digital.

And you're not alone, my digital service is crap aswell.

paulm17781

You don't need the digital but you need the analogue. The only reason for this is because if you have an active NTL cable you have there analogue tv. It is how broadcast technology works.

spatchco

lensman wrote:

I've had enough of the stupid NTL box freezing and blacking out not to mention that awful city channel crap in the mini screen every time your viewing the program guide,:mad:

With Sky's new subscription options I can get the channels I want and save a few euro as well.

well lensman,i had ntl digital 4-5years ago and told them to shove it as the same fault box freezing,i though that was a thing of the past,my gripe is i have sky but i also have to pay[by choice] for ntl basic just to watch ch 4

bk

And just to add to what Paulm said above, in fairness they would love to give you just BB. In Cork Chorus (who also own NTL now) can give you just BB, however they can only do this because their analogue service is scrambled and unwatchable without a subscription. So the two services are easily separated.

Actually what I've seen many people do is get Sky in their front room and then use NTL analogue for the other TV's (kitchen etc) along with BB.

lensman

I spoke with ntl today re: keeping BB and cancelling the TV service, to cut a long story short,
1...they did not dispute the fact that it's not in their T&C's.
they actually said " well it's common knowledge that you must pay for the basic TV service in order to get BB"

2...I said that means nothing and re-stated that I would hold them to the T&C's
and would be contacting the relevant state bodies to make them aware of this practice.

3...I was then put on to a cancellation manager,...wow,
in a nutshell she began offering sweeteners, extra points, a 2nd STB, no installation fee and no extra monthly payments,...ever!!.

She also promised a very exciting year ahead with new services such as..
Broadband..big D/L speed increase next month and another price drop.
New STB's with Hardrive
High Definition broadcasts
interactive TV

They are on shaky ground and they know it,

KTRIC

lensman wrote:

I spoke with ntl today re: keeping BB and cancelling the TV service, to cut a long story short,
1...they did not dispute the fact that it's not in their T&C's.
they actually said " well it's common knowledge that you must pay for the basic TV service in order to get BB"

2...I said that means nothing and re-stated that I would hold them to the T&C's
and would be contacting the relevant state bodies to make them aware of this practice.

3...I was then put on to a cancellation manager,...wow,
in a nutshell she began offering sweeteners, extra points, a 2nd STB, no installation fee and no extra monthly payments,...ever!!.

She also promised a very exciting year ahead with new services such as..
Broadband..big D/L speed increase next month and another price drop.
New STB's with Hardrive
High Definition broadcasts
interactive TV

They are on shaky ground and they know it,

I was offered the same last week and I confirmed on another thread that this is complete fluff. They're just using that to keep customers because they know Sky is infringing on their customer base.

lensman

I spoke with COMREG today and they put me on to Dept of Comms, they are to call me back on this one.

okcomputer

yes NTL should off the analogue service for free to all BB customers , that would both stick a fork in eircoms couzer and give SKY a headache too all in one go. the current practice does them or us no favours

KTRIC

Someone should email them a link to this thread.

bk

lensman wrote:

Broadband..big D/L speed increase next month and another price drop.
New STB's with Hardrive
High Definition broadcasts
interactive TV

Yummy

lensman wrote:

I spoke with COMREG today and they put me on to Dept of Comms, they are to call me back on this one.

I've heard that one before, Comreg and Dept of Comms will simply say that it isn't their job and bounce you between each other.

The reality is that the state bodies have absolutely no say on how NTL sells it services. If NTL wants to make TV a requirement, then it is completely up to them.

Even if it isn't in the T&Cs, I'm sure the T&Cs say that they can cancel you contract at anytime, for any reason. If you try not to pay for the TV service then they can just activate this clause and dump you off the service.

You all seem to be ignore the fact that NTL's hands are tied on this matter. There is no way for them to separate their TV service from the BB service, If you get BB, then you also have access to thier TV service and therfore you have to pay for it.

I'm sure NTL would love to sell you just BB, but they can't, if they allowed you not to pay for it, then everyone with BB would not pay for TV, but still watch it and NTL would lose an awful lot of money.

This is the same with Eircom and line rental.

Live with it or change provider.

Blaster99

okcomputer wrote:

yes NTL should off the analogue service for free to all BB customers , that would both stick a fork in eircoms couzer and give SKY a headache too all in one go. the current practice does them or us no favours

I don't think they mind charging €20 a month for essentially free TV.

watty

bk wrote:

Yummy
You all seem to be ignore the fact that NTL's hands are tied on this matter. There is no way for them to separate their TV service from the BB service, If you get BB, then you also have access to thier TV service and therfore you have to pay for it.

I'm sure NTL would love to sell you just BB, but they can't, if they allowed you not to pay for it, then everyone with BB would not pay for TV, but still watch it and NTL would lose an awful lot of money.

This is the same with Eircom and line rental.

Live with it or change provider.

NTL can change how they deliver.
Clear analog encourages cable taps & piracy

Actually if you subtract what is free on Satellite and free on an aerial and encrypted or Digital on cable it is very few real clear analog pay TV channels (is it more than 4?).

NTL would lose very little, as the main cable market will be Digital TV + Phone + Broadband. Does anyone think people are *REALLY* prepared to keep paying for the basic Analog Cable or MMDS when over 10 chs ITV & BBC TV are perfect FTA over the whole country and 70 UK radio stations too?

bk

watty wrote:

NTL can change how they deliver.
Clear analog encourages cable taps & piracy

Actually if you subtract what is free on Satellite and free on an aerial and encrypted or Digital on cable it is very few real clear analog pay TV channels (is it more than 4?).

NTL would lose very little, as the main cable market will be Digital TV + Phone + Broadband. Does anyone think people are *REALLY* prepared to keep paying for the basic Analog Cable or MMDS when over 10 chs ITV & BBC TV are perfect FTA over the whole country and 70 UK radio stations too?

Sigh, Watty we have had this conversation many times in the past.

Most of NTL's business remains analogue. Digital makes up less then 20% of their business and BB less then 5%. While the future is triple play, they aren't going to savage their current mainstream business for just less then 5% of customers.

NTL with slowly continue to build up their digital business, expanding channel range, adding new services like voip, VoD, HD and PVR and over time will shrink the price difference between analogue and digital. Only after many years when most of their customers are on digital will they even start to think about shutting down the analogue.

BBC and ITV going FTA has had little or no effect on NTL analogue. NTL Ireland still enjoys some of the lowest churn rates in the industry across Europe.

There are a couple of reasons for this:

1) Most people don't know FTA even exists or how to go about setting it up.
2) A very large percentage of people in NTL's largest markets (Dublin city) can't get satellite because of living in an apartment or renting.
Also they would need an aerial for the Irish terrestials, not possible in many circumstances.
3) Many people can't or won't splash out €200 - €300 for FTA gear, they prefer cost spread out.
4) People want the channels that are on cable but not on FTA, such as C4, E4, Sky One, Discovery, MTV, Paramount
5) Basic inertia, they have it and it works, why change?

FTA really needs someone behind it and strongly advertising it, like the BBC/ITV consortium. It also needs C4/E4 and to a lesser extent C5 to go FTA, along with RTE.

KTRIC

I'm getting Sky Digital installed next week and Smart BB the week after, so goodbye to NTL. I can't wait to tell them

stoneroses

spatchco wrote:

well lensman,i had ntl digital 4-5years ago and told them to shove it as the same fault box freezing,i though that was a thing of the past,my gripe is i have sky but i also have to pay[by choice] for ntl basic just to watch ch 4

Then your gripe should be with Sky I should think for not providing C4:D

GerardKeating

stoneroses wrote:

Then your gripe should be with Sky I should think for not providing C4:D

or with C4 for not paying to be on Sky

bk

BTW my NTL Digital boxes (there are 3 in the house) haven't frozen or stalled in the last few months and they are never turned off.

Perhaps they updated the software in the boxes or improved the network.

Dodge

bk wrote:

BTW my NTL Digital boxes (there are 3 in the house) haven't frozen or stalled in the last few months and they are never turned off.

Perhaps they updated the software in the boxes or improved the network.

I have digital about 2 years now. Never froze, think it turned off once. Not a major gripe. I know people with Sky who've had awful problems...

jakeyb

Dodge wrote:

I have digital about 2 years now. Never froze, think it turned off once. Not a major gripe. I know people with Sky who've had awful problems...

It think the best way going forward would be every one on this trend with NTL to sign a pertition letter informing then that we will be moving to SKy if nothing is done promptly. Why charge for almost 20 euro for stupid channels that I hardly watch just for the sake of BB.

Freddie59

watty wrote:

Actually if you subtract what is free on Satellite and free on an aerial and encrypted or Digital on cable it is very few real clear analog pay TV channels (is it more than 4?).

Channel 4
E4
Sky One
Nickelodeon
Paramount Comedy
MTV
Discovery
Setanta

That makes 8. Plus if you use FTA you need separate boxes in each room, 2nd remote control, blah, blah. At the minute you can select from the selection with a normal TV remote. No fuss.

lensman

With Sky TV stating their intention to offer a BB service here soon ntl's dominance of the digital TV/BB market will be at an end.

bk

lensman wrote:

With Sky TV stating their intention to offer a BB service here soon ntl's dominance of the digital TV/BB market will be at an end.

ROFLOL

I've been invloved with IOFFL and BB for a long time and I can tell you that the way Eircom is dragging their feet with LLU, there is absolutely no way that Sky on LLU DSL would even come close to threatening NTL.

BTW cable in general (I'm not talking about the Irish networks which are in a pretty bad shape) is a far superior technology to DSL for both TV and BB traffic. You can go to vastly higher speeds with cable, in Japan they have been trialing Gigabit ethernet speeds on cable. Even VDSL (Fibre to The Curb) struggles to get to 40mbit/s.

With DSL IPTV there are big questions about it's ability to scale to many customers, to supply multiple tv streams or it's ability to carry HD. This is why Verizon, the biggest DSL company in the world has decided to skip ADSL2+ and VDSL and instead are going straight to fibre to the home technology called Fois (which BTW doesn't use IPTV or VoD, it works in a similiar way to digital cable).

lensman

I know the value of the cable based BB which is why I want to keep it, it's the other analogue TV crap ntl force you to pay 19.50euro for I am griping about.

brianc123

It's very simple!!

if you want NTL's BB service you have to pay for their analogue TV
its the exact same as if you want Eircom DSL you have to pay line rental

Nobody is forcing you to take any service from NTL if you don’t like it vote with your feet and go somewhere else!!!

lensman

brianc123 wrote:

It's very simple!!

if you want NTL's BB service you have to pay for their analogue TV
its the exact same as if you want Eircom DSL you have to pay line rental

Nobody is forcing you to take any service from NTL if you don’t like it vote with your feet and go somewhere else!!!

Wait, hold on a sec,...your altering the facts to suit your argument.
You can't compare Eircom's service to NTL's,..NTL don't have a line rental fee, you can't call 19.50euro per month for the basic TV service a "Line rental fee".

When I spoke with Ntl last week and asked them to show me in their T&C’s that I could not have BB only they could not do this the said “it’s common knowledge,..everyone knows” a flimsy reply IMO.

Anyway in a effort to keep my custom they called yesterday the 3rd Feb and installed extra points & a 2nd STB for free and no extra monthly charge so I’m happy,…..for awhile at least.

Finally, don’t be so excepting of what these service providers tell you is correct.

watty

Unless Sky is offering a Wireless "Metro" or "wimax" type service as well as aDSL on copper they can neither get much market share or much competitiveness.

Telefís

Is RTÉ in widescreen available on NTL Digital?

lensman

Telef&#237 wrote: »

Is RTÉ in widescreen available on NTL Digital?

yes for awhile now

Telefís

Thanks - was wondering if it was only a $ky thing

cgarvey

lensman wrote:

You can't compare Eircom's service to NTL's,..NTL don't have a line rental fee, you can't call 19.50euro per month for the basic TV service a "Line rental fee".

Without getting into a whole argument on whether BB costs should include line rental prices, I think it's accurate to directly compare NTL basic and eircom line rental. Both are necessary if you want to avail of *any* other service from said company, including Broadband. Both are inflated, in cost, to cover cheaper/more competitive services (e.g. BB), both are a delivery platform, and both include a service which fewer and fewer people want these days.

With eircom, you can't get BB without paying line rental which includes a basic telephone service, and free inbound calls. With NTL, you can't get BB without paying a Basic TV (analogue) subscription, which includes a basic analogue TV service (with crap picture quality on any installation I've seen) for free.

It just so happens that more people in a modern urban society want TV more so than a fixed phone line (the latter being discarded in favour of mobile telephony, for example), but it doesn't alter the fact that you *have* to avail of an expensive basic service from both companies before you can get BB from them.

.cg

lensman

cgarvey wrote:

Without getting into a whole argument on whether BB costs should include line rental prices, I think it's accurate to directly compare NTL basic and eircom line rental. Both are necessary if you want to avail of *any* other service from said company, including Broadband. Both are inflated, in cost, to cover cheaper/more competitive services (e.g. BB), both are a delivery platform, and both include a service which fewer and fewer people want these days.

With eircom, you can't get BB without paying line rental which includes a basic telephone service, and free inbound calls. With NTL, you can't get BB without paying a Basic TV (analogue) subscription, which includes a basic analogue TV service (with crap picture quality on any installation I've seen) for free.

It just so happens that more people in a modern urban society want TV more so than a fixed phone line (the latter being discarded in favour of mobile telephony, for example), but it doesn't alter the fact that you *have* to avail of an expensive basic service from both companies before you can get BB from them.

.cg

Well looks like you have entered the argument
2nd,.....it's totally inaccurate to compare Eircom's line rental fee and NTL's
19.50euro fee for bacis TV service.

With eircom you pay a line rental fee AND a 2nd fee for your calls,..these are two seperate charges,....no matter how you explain it NTL do NOT have a line rental fee, NTL are cocky enough without us "the customers" re-writing their T&C's for them in an effort to explain or justfy an unfair pricing system.

bk

cgarvey thank you very much for so elegantly putting what I was trying to explain. Both Eircom and NTL have a minimum requirement and for most people the TV service is easiesr to swallow.

Lensman, I think you are simply wrong. NTL are a company, they need to charge for the products to sell, simple as that.