Why are atheists at more of a risk of commiting suicide or becoming depressed?

read an article in leitrim observer today about people who dont have faith in anything seem to think there is no meaning for life and get depressed.would ye agree this is generally true?

Thordon

I read once that on average religeous people are happier, so its probably true. But being an atheist isnt really a choice to me, I couldnt believe in something I had no evidence of, I would know I was just deluding myself.

monkeyfudge

Did the Leitrim Observer give a source for this article?

Zombrex

The_Dazzler wrote:

read an article in leitrim observer today about people who dont have faith in anything seem to think there is no meaning for life and get depressed.would ye agree this is generally true?

It is true that groups that are hightly religious have lower suicide rates (such as Mormons), but it is doubtful it is due to less religious people or atheists feeling life has "no meaning"

A more likely explaination is given here -

"Religious Affiliation and Suicide Attempt" (161:2303-2308, December 2004).
The American Journal of Psychiatry

Social scientists believe that non-belief in God or lack of religiosity are not causitive factors leading to suicide. Rather, it is likely that religious belief that suicide is wrong is a strong deterrent factor that prevents otherwise suicide-prone individuals from committing suicide.

So athetism doesn't make you more likely to be depressed and suicidal, but being a member and a strong believer in a religion that outlaws suicide can make you less likely to go through with suicide.

annR

I agree with the last point. However I do often hear people saying that their faith helped them through really hard times, and you have to wonder how athiests get through really hard times without faith in some higher purpose. I wouldn't be surprised if there was evidence for this but don't know.

Zombrex

annR wrote:

you have to wonder how athiests get through really hard times without faith in some higher purpose.

Properly I would imagine.

What i mean by that is I feel lot of forms of religious "strength" are just shy of full on self-delusion, and prevent people from properly dealing with the real issues facing them. I have often seen and heard about people seriously strugging to try and justify what has happened to them within some religious frame work (the classic "Why did god let this happen.."). This isn't healthy, even if they find some why to work it into that framework, and leads to longer confusion and more anger and resentment.

Dades

I'd say that could well be a realistic statistic.

I'd agree that maybe the whole "suicide is wrong" element is a deterrent for those of faith but I doubt it's a major factor.

What it means is the faith can maybe help people find a meaning in life if they really need one. It's one thing to believe in "nothing" and go home to your wife and kids, but it's another to do so and live under a blanket on the quays. You're more likely to believe something if you really want to.

Like Thordon suggested you either believe or you don't. But when life turns around and kicks you in the ass - that's when your faith, or lack of, is truly tested.

Outcast

It's possible that rather than actual religious belief the religious community is what prevents people from commiting suicide.

OLP

I find comfort in my so-called knowledge that there is no meaning to life, and if there was I wouldn't care, I give my life my meaning, I've never been depressed at the tought of a meaningless life. But i wouldn't call myself an Athiest, I don't reject the idea of faith, I just dont believe in it myself.

Vangelis

"All around me are familiar faces
Worn out faces, worn out faces
Out and early for their daily races
Going nowhere, going nowhere
And the tears are filling up their glasses
No tomorrow, no tomorrow

And I find it kind of funny
I find it kind of sad
The dreams in which I'm dying
are the best I've ever had
I find it hard to tell you and
I find it hard to take
When people run in circles
it's a very, very

Mad world..."

Heard that? A beautiful song about the futility of the world. Our daily races go nowhere, we're running in circles. I believe this is what a depressed atheist could think about.

Sleepy

This may not be a popular opinion and it's based purely on my own observations rather than on any source I've looked up in order to add credence to it, but I'm gonna throw it out there anyway.

Perhaps it's because there seems to be a link between intelligence and depression?

beyondrapid

i'm an aetheist. i don't see how anyone who believes in some greater power would be less likely to contemplate suicide. deal with facts, not with fiction.

MrJoeSoap

beyondrapid wrote:

i don't see how anyone who believes in some greater power would be less likely to contemplate suicide. deal with facts, not with fiction.

If people truly believe in "God" and follow the teachings of Christianity, then they more than likely view suicide as being the premature destruction of what God created, therefore it is a sin.

Not sure about "contemplating" suicide though, but I would imagine that atheists proportionately "contemplate" it more.

The Corinthian

Sleepy wrote:

Perhaps it's because there seems to be a link between intelligence and depression?

If it'll cheer you up, then sure

Dublin's Finest

beyondrapid wrote:

i'm an aetheist. i don't see how anyone who believes in some greater power would be less likely to contemplate suicide. deal with facts, not with fiction.

As am I. And I'm happy as a pig in ****.

Sleepy

The Corinthian wrote:

If it'll cheer you up, then sure

Who said I was depressed?

Dades

A thought just struck me reading this thread again.

Folk who are prone to suicide have obviously suffered terrible hardship, illness or changes in their lives. Therefore is it not realistic that they are going to spurn the notion of a benevolent God? If they become atheist (and who surveys suicide risks' religious taste anyway?) then it is likely they lost any faith along the way.

They die atheists, believing that no god would have let them suffer to the point where death was preferable to life.

The Corinthian

TBH, I think Wicknight, annR and MrJoeSoap probably have the best assessment of the situation in that religions typically give an additional psychological crutch to those suffering from depression or other adversity and also act as a deterrent to suicide - after all, there’s not much point to the release of suicide, if all it does is release you to Hell.

The other theories being bandied about here smack of projection and over fertile imagination:

• Atheists are statistically no more intelligent than the religious, agnostic or deist - such an conceit seems based entirely upon the belief that anyone who is religious must be less intelligent.
• Someone who rejects their religion immediately prior suicide does not necessarily reject the concept of God or gods. That’s simply an unfounded assumption. They may simply reject that particular God or gods.

Frankly, it’s not rocket science figuring out why statistically the religious are less prone to committing suicide.

Shabadu

Oh dear, a link between intelligence and depression? I suffered from depression for a number of years, and while I have to say I *did* wander around dejectedly reading Kafka a bit more back then, it had no bearing on my intelligence.

Rather, I think my decision to renounce athiesm and have faith was an intelligent one, for me. It may not seem likely that there is some sort of higher concious entity, but it adds a pleasant tracing over life; it gives a sheen of purpose. I suppose, leaning a bit twoards Jung and the notion of a collective subconcious eased the voyage into faith for me. I find that for my particular sort of personality, having a personal faith makes life more enriching and challenging.

I find the notion that my faith means i'm more likely to be plebian a tad unsavoury.

Mind you, I can't be doing with that 'organised religion'.

Dades

I'd like to see a source for the OP's suggestion.

Is it just a casual link between the increase in suicide and the decline of the church's influence on young people? Or is somebody actually surveying people classed as suicide risks...

Out of curiousity only.

Vangelis

The Corinthian wrote:

TBH, I think Wicknight, annR and MrJoeSoap probably have the best assessment of the situation in that religions typically give an additional psychological crutch to those suffering from depression or other adversity and also act as a deterrent to suicide - after all, there’s not much point to the release of suicide, if all it does is release you to Hell.

The other theories being bandied about here smack of projection and over fertile imagination:

• Atheists are statistically no more intelligent than the religious, agnostic or deist - such an conceit seems based entirely upon the belief that anyone who is religious must be less intelligent.
• Someone who rejects their religion immediately prior suicide does not necessarily reject the concept of God or gods. That’s simply an unfounded assumption. They may simply reject that particular God or gods.

Frankly, it’s not rocket science figuring out why statistically the religious are less prone to committing suicide.

As I see it, less suicide among religious people depends on which religion. You have people committing suicide for their own faith's sake. I don't know if this has happened among Christians, but Islamic suicide bombers we've all heard of. But I suppose we are talking about suicide caused by depression..

Actually, intelligence has nothing to do with suicide. Many intelligent individuals have killed themselves. Happiness is not based on your mental capacity. The Times magazine had an interesting article about that where they listed the things that makes a person happy. Among them were: someone to care for/someone to be cared for by(family, friends, wives, husbands), a good self-image, a good mental and physical health(as far as I remember). Religion was either no 6 or 7 on the list while education and intelligence were no 9 and 10, the least important.

I'd say that a high intelligence or mind capacity can make you dwell more on things although I'm not sure. If you dig yourself into things it is easier to see the hopelessness in things around you and inside of you. Maybe this means anything?

Pitseleh

"O, that this too solid flesh would melt,
thaw, and resolve itself into a dew!
Or that the Everlasting had not fixt
His canon 'gainst self-slaughter!"

Zombrex

Vangelis wrote:

I don't know if this has happened among Christians, but Islamic suicide bombers we've all heard of. But I suppose we are talking about suicide caused by depression..

Slightly off topic, but Islamic "suicide" bombers don't actually believe their actions are in fact suicide, any more than you can say the soldiers on the beach at Gallipoli commited "suicide"

Vangelis

Okay, it's irrelevant then.

Neuro

The_Dazzler wrote:

read an article in leitrim observer today about people who dont have faith in anything seem to think there is no meaning for life and get depressed.would ye agree this is generally true?

Correlation does not imply causation - Atheists may be more depressed than theists, but are they depressed because they are atheists or did they become atheists because they had more negative life experiences which led them to conclude that God did not exist. Whilst it is difficult to prove, I would be more inclined to believe that the latter is far more likely to be the cause of this phenomenon.

Vangelis

Neuro wrote:

Correlation does not imply causation - Atheists may be more depressed than theists, but are they depressed because they are atheists or did they become atheists because they had more negative life experiences which led them to conclude that God did not exist. Whilst it is difficult to prove, I would be more inclined to believe that the latter is far more likely to be the cause of this phenomenon.

That is a good point. But one can't blame depression in atheists on religion. Always.

Neuro

Vangelis wrote:

Actually, intelligence has nothing to do with suicide.

Time to burst this bubble.

The Corinthian wrote:

Atheists are statistically no more intelligent than the religious, agnostic or deist - such an conceit seems based entirely upon the belief that anyone who is religious must be less intelligent.

This is incorrent - see here and here. There do seem to be a lot of unsubstantiated 'facts' being presented in this thread.

Vangelis

I am always interested in other viewpoints. The article I read in the Times magazine stated otherwise though. (I don't have this magazine so you will have to choose to believe me or not.)

Tar.Aldarion

I think it has got to do with your personality and how well you hold up to things.If intelligence comes into it,meh.
I havn't actually given much thought to committing suicide no matter how depressed I have been,I think it is pointless,selfish and I would rather just suffer.Other people might be different and just choose to end it.

Gazza22

I would disagree...

I am an atheist and because i know that there is nothing after life for me, i would be more inclined to live life to the full and wouldn't contemplate suicide because once i die that's it....my body rots away and i'm gone

I suppose religious people would have more of the happy feeling in their head because they more than likely believe that when they die it's going to be some utopia and they're going to see all their loved ones again...so when they know they're about to die, at least there will be something they can look forward to. Though if i become ill and know i'm dying, i will probably be a hell of a lot more depressed because i've nothing after death.

buzzerxx

i'm an atheist - thank god.

amp

If there is a link between atheism and suicide/depression then I would speculate that the atheist's in question have trouble coming up with an alternative belief system. Religion provides a system with which is used to answer the hard to answer questions about life and death in a social way. Finding an alternative way of answering those questions can be difficult.

Vangelis

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

I think it has got to do with your personality and how well you hold up to things.If intelligence comes into it,meh.
I havn't actually given much thought to committing suicide no matter how depressed I have been,I think it is pointless,selfish and I would rather just suffer.Other people might be different and just choose to end it.

Yes, I read once that intelligent people are better at thinking themselves out of a problem. But someone with a lower intelligence can absolutely get help and recover from a depression. Of course, it may depend on what kind of problem that causes a depression. You might have lost your husband or children and some suffer from depression after they have given birth(there is a name for that). And this can happen to anyone.

savoyard

The suicide / religion theory, afaik, originated with Emile Durkheim who's considered the founding father of sociology, writing in the late 19th century.

He conducted many studies on religion and suicide and one of his conclusions was that catholic societies have lower suicide rates than protestant ones. He saw Protestantism as being a less strongly integrated religion than catholicism. (Catholic suicides weren't allowed be buried in church grounds until recently, which must also have had a huge effect on rates). He also found that unmarried people have higher suicide rates than married, the larger the family the smaller the chance of suicide and he also found that suicide rates drop in times of war as society is more integrated and people feel more 'needed'. The poor were also less likely to commit suicide than the well to do and men more likely than women.

His work on suicide is really interesting and although the data and societies he were analysing are way out of date now, you can look at it in terms of societal integration rather than religion these days. Basically if you're individualistic, with few links to society (through religion, family or if you feel society won't miss you), you are more likely to commit suicide than someone very active in society, whether it's through religious ties or not

Dades

Just dropping this in here for some coverage...

Have posted a suggestion for an atheism/agnosticism forum in the "new forum" section. I know we have some interested parties, so anyone who is - drop by and give their two shekels worth of support.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=318765

Ag marbh

Being an atheist myself a doctor told me during my height of anxiety/panic disorder that I was missing religion in my life. I guess it's a security blanket for alot of people.

lostexpectation

Ag marbh wrote:

Being an atheist myself a doctor told me during my height of anxiety/panic disorder that I was missing religion in my life. I guess it's a security blanket for alot of people.

what exactly did he mean, what were you lacking that only religion could provide?

Dave!

Yeah I suppose if you believe in God, then there's always someone there, you're never alone, always loved, etc etc. -- but unfortunately, you (or at least, I) can't force yourself to believe in it. You either believe or you don't (or you're in between ), depending on your outlook on life.

Myself, I'm hung up on the whole "it's too easy", and it seems illogical, argument. It'd just feel like I'm being tricked, or I'm deluding myself, if I start praying to God.

But, at some point something had to come from nothing... so that takes me right back to the start again. Where did the universe come from? The big bang, yeh, but where did all the gases and crap come from?

If I were to believe in a God, I'd probably go with the one where it created us, and then left us to our own devices (anyone able to give me the name of this line of thinking? ), cos of the whole evolution thing.

Vangelis

DaveMcG wrote:

Yeah I suppose if you believe in God, then there's always someone there, you're never alone, always loved, etc etc. -- but unfortunately, you (or at least, I) can't force yourself to believe in it. You either believe or you don't (or you're in between ), depending on your outlook on life.

That I can agree with. Believing is a choice each and everyone has to make for themselves. You can't force yourself to be undepressed, but I experience that if I pray to God that I need rest and stop worrying or being sad, I do stop worrying, being sad and I can rest. It's a question of seeking it out, not expecting it to come to you by itself. To have something you must ask for it.
That was my response to that as a Christian.

Hobbes

annR wrote:

you have to wonder how athiests get through really hard times without faith in some higher purpose.

They have faith in themselves.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

or whatever crutch they choose to lean on, drugs and sex would be fairly popular.