N2 Finglas - Ashbourne

Victor

Phase 1 (I presume M50 - Broughan) to open in November

http://www.n2finglasashbourne.ie/

spacetweek

I took a cycle along it (I know, I wasn't supposed to be there ) a week or two ago as far as Broughan where the new road approaches the old closely and there's a junction. It certainly looks just about ready to open.

Although they hadn't marked the lanes yet it appears to be six lanes wide, which is interesting as it's a rare example of future proofing in Ireland. Being this near to the city, if it was 4 lanes, they would have had to come back to it for widening pretty quickly. It's also odd when you compare to the nearby and much more busy N3 and M1 routes which are still 4 lanes. The N4 is due to start widening in the new year, but they're about 4 years late - :mad:

Maskhadov

What are the future plans for the N2/M2. Do they intended to extend the motorway further north than Ashbourne or is that as far as it goes ?

BrianD

Depends what the property developers want.

skywalker_208

can anyone actually find where Phaze 1 starts and ends?

mackerski

spacetweek wrote:

Although they hadn't marked the lanes yet it appears to be six lanes wide, which is interesting as it's a rare example of future proofing in Ireland.

It will be three lanes per direction between the M50 and Broghan. At Broghan, the junction will involve a lane-drop Northbound (lane-gain southbound). North of the junction, it'll be the normal 2-lane setup. There is a projected road to run from that junction across towards Dolly's pub, to meet the existing dual-carriageway alongside Blanchardstown Corporate Park. Since this road would serve a number of industrial estates, the extra lanes may be in recognition of this stretch as a prime route to M50 and airport.

Phase 1 is essentially this three-lane stretch as far as the Broghan interchange. An early opening of this stretch is very useful, as it removes the conflicting movements at Kilshane Cross - Kilshane road travels over the new alignment on a bridge, with no junction between the two.

Dermot

Victor

Maskhadov wrote:

What are the future plans for the N2/M2. Do they intended to extend the motorway further north than Ashbourne or is that as far as it goes ?

Its dual carriageway, not motorway.

This indicates that only schemes in Monaghan will happen, aside from perhaps a Slane bypass.

http://www.nra.ie/News/DownloadableDocumentation/file,1318,en.PDF

jlang

The N2 in Monaghan is going to be a 2+1 road. http://www.monaghan.ie/roads/blayneyclontibret.asp

murphaph

Seems a bit odd not to just build it to D2AP, seeing as it's a new road and all. Is the land that expensive up there?

I at least hope that the bridges and underpasses are wide enough to accomodate D2 at a later date if the traffic volumes warrant it, as opposed to another Nenagh bypass which is going to be a right pain to convert to D2.

Victor

murphaph wrote:

Seems a bit odd not to just build it to D2AP, seeing as it's a new road and all. Is the land that expensive up there?

You also need to factor in the cut & fill through bogs and eskers.

murphaph

....not forgetting that stoney grey soil is a ba$tard to dig through

skywalker_208

www.n2finglasashbourne.ie/

Looks like phaze 1 will be open on thursday.. and the entire project expected to be completed next may...

saobh_ie

f months ahead of schedule... ask me b******s! It's easy to finish early if you schedule two years more than you actually need to get the job done right...

Although schedules are based on what you've done before so they probaly had one less delay than thier experience told them they'd have.

Wonder if its going to be up to scratch... should be if they followed the best practise and copied what works and is in manuals you can buy for a hundred blips... instead of designing an irish solution by civil servant civil engineers or worse... construction companies getting paid by civil servants...

4 months ahead of schedule... they've got be over budget by at least 150% then.

Any idea what time they're opening it... early in the morning? Any speed cameras?

skywalker_208

nah no information on what time or if there are any speed cameras yet.... will know tomorrow..

Andrew Duffy

All roads and bridges here are built according to the British design guidelines. Why do you think a contractor finishing early means the project is over budget? The contractor gets paid for the project rather than for their time.

D'Peoples Voice

Andrew Duffy wrote:

All roads and bridges here are built according to the British design guidelines.

That explains everything!
If they had been built to European standard, then we may have had better reliability, not like the N8 Cahir bypass that needed to be resurfaced only a few years after it was built. When have the british ever bene known to have good roads compared to the Swedes, French or Germans?

saobh_ie wrote:

months ahead of schedule... ask me b******s! It's easy to finish early if you schedule two years more than you actually need to get the job done right...

Although schedules are based on what you've done before so they probaly had one less delay than thier experience told them they'd have.

I'd say that the NRA looked at all the hassle being caused by the courts holding up their road programme, and allowed for these delays.

If they didn't allow time for the courts delaying the various road projects, the the NRA would be attacked when roads are built late. People don't want to hear about serious changes involved mid-way like the bridges for the fish in the Glen of the downs/the type of tarmacadam used in the Port tunnel,carrickmines in the M50 etc. Therefore the NRA are wise to add in plenty of time to spare like the N11 Rathnew bypass.

skywalker_208

Well lets hope it will shave a few minutes off my journey tomorrow anyway! it will cut out that junction at kilshane cross which should help anyway...

murphaph

D'Peoples Voice wrote:

That explains everything!
If they had been built to European standard, then we may have had better reliability, not like the N8 Cahir bypass that needed to be resurfaced only a few years after it was built. When have the british ever bene known to have good roads compared to the Swedes, French or Germans?

Come off it. The UK has been heavily involved in roads research and development for decades-often inventing techniques used the world over. TRL hasn't always been an MTV acronym! UK motorways (and we are talking motorway standard roads here!) are often to a far higher design standard vis a vis sight lines and acceleration and deceleration lanes than continental dual carriageways. Have you ever found a sharp 90 degree exit off a UK motorway like the ones that are common on exiting Autobahnen, especially older ones? They are extremely rare and avoided if at all possible. Don't get me wrong-I'm not claiming UK motorways are all better than continental ones, but it's not fair to say that the UK motorway standards are substandard. The UK (and consequently us) do some things better and some things worse.

D'Peoples Voice wrote:

People don't want to hear about serious changes involved mid-way like the bridges for the fish in the Glen of the downs/the type of tarmacadam used in the Port tunnel,carrickmines in the M50 etc.

[pedant]Tarmacadam hasn't been used to surface roads in years. You're thinking about asphalt concrete[/pedant]

murphaph

skywalker_208 wrote:

Well lets hope it will shave a few minutes off my journey tomorrow anyway! it will cut out that junction at kilshane cross which should help anyway...

I hope they intend to modify the sequencing on the traffic lights there to allow greater priority to east-west traffic now that north-south traffic should be using the dual carriageway. Personally I think the lights could be removed and replaced with a mini-roundabout.

saobh_ie

A fair sized raised roundabout would be good but I personally think the traffic light controlled junction is far better and much cheaper. To put in a roundabout theres land they'd need to reclaim from each corner of the junction and then you'd be getting more headlights into some of the residential properties in the vicinity.

The sequence of the lights should be changed so that pirority is for traffic coming out of the smaller junctions onto the ashbourne road.

It'll also make getting in and out of the Brock easier... yum.

Maskhadov

Andrew Duffy wrote:

All roads and bridges here are built according to the British design guidelines. Why do you think a contractor finishing early means the project is over budget? The contractor gets paid for the project rather than for their time.

This country is a pathetic sham. Another mickey mouse effort.

spacetweek

Maskhadov wrote:

This country is a pathetic sham. Another mickey mouse effort.

Care to explain?

It sounds great to me. So - they run over time, and get slammed. Now these guys come in early, and you're giving them grief. :rolleyes:

skywalker_208

Well the new road bypasses Kilshane cross and Ashbourne which can only help traffic flow so i dont see how it could be a bad thing...

wasnt opened this morning when i passed by the way...

Maskhadov

I dont want to see british inferior standards used to build irish roads. The continetnal standards are superior and should be the ones followed !!!

murphaph

Maskhadov wrote:

I dont want to see british inferior standards used to build irish roads. The continetnal standards are superior and should be the ones followed !!!

What exactly is it that you believe to be inferior about british motorway design standards when compared to 'continental' standards (which can very wildly from country to country a anyone who's driven on a narrow laned autostrada in Italy will know)?

Maskhadov

I know the italian roads are inferior but I wasnt giving them as an example. Most of the northern european countries are superior than the anglo saxon approach with poor visible signage and other problems with interchanges and the like.

There is a website somewhere that covers it all that clearly shows the difference.

murphaph

We don't follow the UK signage protocols. We have our own directional signage (loosely baed on UK Guilford Rules) but they are inferior to the UK system. The UK system can be inferior to some signage systems in place on the continent, but with respect to the road's actual design geometry, ie how it is constructed, can you outline some inferiorities that exists between UK motorways and german Autobahnen please. I have driven on many motorways around the world and I love the Autobahn, but it has shortcomings, indeed older stretches have NO hard shoulder in parts. UK motorways have had hard shoulders from the beginning unless there was some land constraint preventing it (eg, urban motorways). I'm not claiming that everything about UK motorways is better than continental ones, but you are categorically claiming that K motorways are rubbish while continental ones are great, so an example or two would be nice.

Bluetonic

Well back to the OT:

So has it opened yet?

Anyone with any feedbad?

Maskhadov

there is more information on the finglas website;)

Im staying on topic but if you want to open a new thread about inferior road signage I would join in:).

Traffic

Road now open

Bluetonic

Traffic wrote:

Road now open

Thank God for that, I thought we'd be debating road standards for ever... close and delete this thread quickly

JimmySmith

Which part is stage 1?
Also how does this new road join onto the M50. Common sense would say that it should join seamlesly like the M50 joins the M1.
I have this horrible feeling that they'll join it to the M50 with a roundabout - oh my god.

Andrew Duffy

The interchange is a roundabout for now, but is due to be upgraded to a junction with mostly freeflowing links.

skywalker_208

yea road is open a few hours now.. AA roadwatch website doesnt say much.. ill report back later to let you know how i got on!

JimmySmith - Stage 1 goes from Finglas M50 roundabout 2 about 2 or 3 miles past Kilshane Cross.. right beside that pub - cant remember the name of it.. not the white house.. the other one...

JimmySmith

skywalker_208 wrote:

yea road is open a few hours now.. AA roadwatch website doesnt say much.. ill report back later to let you know how i got on!

JimmySmith - Stage 1 goes from Finglas M50 roundabout 2 about 2 or 3 miles past Kilshane Cross.. right beside that pub - cant remember the name of it.. not the white house.. the other one...

i know the one you mean but cant think of the name of it either. thanks for the info. might use it tomorrow. pity they wouldnt link the N2 to the N1 at Balbriggan or thereabouts. That would be the start of a proper road system but bypassing Ashbourne is a start. Watch the amount of houses going up on the north side of ashbourne now

d@rk l0rd

Have just been on it and it's quite impressive, despite the fact that a lot of the lanes aren't open yet. Bypasses Kilshane Cross which is great and currently links up the M50 to Coolquay.

skywalker_208

Coolquay is that the name of it? says Broughan on the AA website.

Theres a huge new housing estate already being built in Ashbourne - they are just doing the goundwork for it at the mo.. about 300 houses i think....

and wats the story with the 5 supermarkets???

Aldi
Lidl
Tesco
Supervalue
and shortly Dunnes!!!

Victor

skywalker_208 wrote:

Well the new road bypasses Kilshane cross and Ashbourne

Only the first part of the project is being opened now, not as far as Ashbourne.

skywalker_208

Well theres only one lane open and two in places.. but it took me 4 mins to get from M50 roundabout yesterday to the end of the section that is open.. and 3 mins this morning in the other direction..

so thats pretty good! however yesterday the traffic trying to get onto the M50 northbound at the Finglas roundabout caused alot of delays in the area...

BrianD

murphaph wrote:

We don't follow the UK signage protocols. We have our own directional signage (loosely baed on UK Guilford Rules) but they are inferior to the UK system.

Well said. You only have to look at the new gantry signage on the M1 heading south from Belfast. Very intuitive, easy to view and understand from a drivers point of view. Then take a look at the joke that is the signage on the southern leg of the M50 that is:
- Radically different to the signs on the rest of the M50
- Radically different to the signs on the other Irish m-ways.
- Promotes illegal and dangerous driving patterns.
- Difficult to "understand at a glance" from a drivers point of view.

Haven't been on the M2, sorry N2, but are the junctions numbered?

skywalker_208

yea i think they are numbered.. and they also have the huge overhead signage... very easy to see what lane you have to be in at an early stage...

Victor

skywalker_208 wrote:

Well theres only one lane open .... in places..

skywalker_208 wrote:

. very easy to see what lane you have to be in at an early stage...

Tee hee hee

Update on www.n2finglasashbourne.ie/

mackerski

It feels wrong to be giving out about the road scheme that fixed Kilshane Cross, but it has to be said:

1. The NRA clearly realised early on that they had ballsed up with the gantry signs on the M50, to the extent that they solicited public feedback. And now, on the northbound carriageway of the new N2, as it approaches the Broughan interchange, we have the same stupid, dangerous restatement of the mainline destinations over each of the two non-exiting lanes.

2. The opened stretch has prominently (and, by the looks of it, permanently) posted 80km/h speed limits - a full 20km/h less than we were allowed to do on the cattle track it replaces. Anybody else confused?

Dermot

full forward

Ive been taking the Kilshane cross route to work for the last few mornings. I come from the west side of the cross which means I have to drive over the new N2...very slowly. So near and yet so far. Why did the not put proper access at Kilshane? We have to queue for up to 20 minutes for the traffic lights still. Looks to me like the new N2 already needs upgrading. Shame.

saobh_ie

Absolutly great stretch of road. Again I say, finished, early, ask me bollixs. One lane open, two in places but it looks like when its finished it will be a good one. Lovely looking surface, appears to be well put down but I've only see in it the dark. It bends and sweeps as it goes along so its not actually boring to drive on.

Two thumbs up... but only one if it turns out its an 80kph limit, i wasn't paying attention to signs, i was looking at the cones everywhere... Literally millions of cones...

Victor

saobh_ie wrote:

It bends and sweeps as it goes along so its not actually boring to drive on.

Most new roads tend to have alternating (left, right, left, right, but not always), equilateral (fixed radius) curves. It reduces driver boredom and fatigue, reduces cost (less cut and fill) and if necessary removes sleeping drivers fromt he road. :eek:

Two thumbs up... but only one if it turns out its an 80kph limit

I imagine this is a temporary limit until the road is complete. It might actually not be legally a national route yet, hence the lower limit.

full forward

I think the road moves well because its so diffucult to get on to it. How could they get it so wrong? 25 minute queue this morning at Kilshane. Another waste of taxpayers money.

I sent and email to the email address on www.n2finglasashbourne.ie and got this reply about my problem.

Hello ,
The lights at Kilshane were altered on Nov. 17th when the Phase 1 opened. This alteration was based on a projected figure and would remain in place until definite trends emerged of traffic in the area. Like yourself we have found that delays are occurring at certain times on Kilshane Road and we are notifying Fingal County Council about this so you can expect improvements very shortly. Regards, Paul Farrell

ciaran76

Now that its winter time i have gone back to the bus to get from Blanch. to Swords every morning and i have to admit its great now.

It used to take about 25-35 mins to get across Kilshane Cross most mornings or more but now down to 5 to 10 mins at the most. I now getting to work at least a half hour early since the new road opened.

I get to Kilsane at about 7.35am most mornings. Just in case anyone was wondering what times. And i have been getting the bus home most evenings and going back has been just as good. My bus usually arrives at Kilshane cross at about 5.50pm.

So for me its been great !:D

Victor

ciaran76 wrote:

Now that its winter time i have gone back to the bus to get from Blanch. to Swords every morning and i have to admit its great now.

The Urbus?

mackerski

Victor wrote:

I imagine this is a temporary limit until the road is complete. It might actually not be legally a national route yet, hence the lower limit.

Status as a national route only affects the default speed limit, the council is free to apply anything up to 120km/h. It's interesting to note that the newly empty (therefore now safer?) old N2 has had its limit dropped to 80km/h. Funny world.

Dermot

Kristok

I thought they could only apply 120 to a motorway ?

Never even knew this road was being built till the first section got opened up its a very impressive road im actually amazed cause I always said id never live in ashbourne cause of the dodgy road but now im thinking if the other sections are like this it would be so handy to get to.