News back from RTE

Greenman

Got this back from RTE, still looks very long fingerish!!!

See what you think.

I wrote.


Sir,Madam,
I am blue in the face asking RTE when will they have an RTE TV service free to air for Ireland,UK and Europe. This would be a very popular service with great advertising potential!!!!

Think please of the people in Ireland that have dreadful reception plus the people in the UK and Europe that would love to see home-grown RTE TV like the old TARA TV.

Are you doing anything about this??

Please let me whets happening!!!!

Regards JD!!!!

They wrote

Thank you for your email. Would that it were as simple
as you suggest! RTÉ is
currently examining the possibility of an international
television service. Our
initial ambition is to get an Irish television service
up and running in the UK.
After that we would be looking at the rest of Europe.
But there are quite a few
obstacles to overcome.

1. Rights. RTÉ currently buys Irish broadcasting
rights to the acquired
American, British and Australian programmes we
transmit. We either could not
afford to buy world rights or world rights are not
available for many of the
acquired programmes we show. Therefore any service we
make available
internationally would have to be confined to the
programmes we make ourselves or
the programmes we commission ourselves. Basically an
amalgam of our home
production on RTÉ One and RTÉ Two would form the basis
of a RTÉ International
channel.

2. Legal. The advice we have received is that current
broadcasting legislation
may need to be amended to allow RTÉ to operate an
international service. RTÉ is
working with the Department of Communications on this.

3. . Technology. To get a signal to potential viewers
outside of Ireland we
have to consider different means of distribution
including Digital Satellite,
Digital Terrestrial , cable and broadband. All of
these options are currently
being examined.

4. Cost. I wish we could share your optimism about
the market for an RTÉ
International service. Tara Television lost
considerable amounts of money
before it ceased broadcasting. It is RTÉ's view that
any future operation would
have to receive a subsidy from the Irish government as
part of its "Irish
Abroad" programme administered by the Department of
Foreign Affairs. Many
European countries subsidise the international
operation of their public
service broadcasting organisations.

So overall we are aware of a level of interest,
albeit one that is difficult
to quantify. We are working towards getting an
operation up and running. But
it will not happen quickly.

Yours sincerely

Beverly Hanly
Secretary to Audience Council

byte

Hmm, that was a good enough reply. Last time I asked, I just got a reword of the first paragraph!

Point 1, it's only RTE produced or commissioned programming that would be expected on an RTE Intl. channel. People can watch import stuff on other networks.
With regards to Point 2, I'd assume they refer to Irish regulations as opposed to International regulations? After all, there are quite a few international services.

Point 3, I'd say Satellite and Broadband would be the primary means of international services.

Point 4, I don't think Tara got enough of a chance, considering there wasn't as much digital satellite viewers back then as there are now.

Nice to see them wanting Govt funds to run an international service! :rolleyes:

L1011

Go FTA, solves most of their problems, its not like they'd be "targetting" anywhere else.... If they've any sense whatsoever they've been buying all their rights on the basis of potentially being FTA on DSAT anyway...

DMC

But RTÉ's USP to advertisers over the years has been that they get the first run on most new US programmes. This predates digital satellite.

Mossy Monk

byte wrote:

Nice to see them wanting Govt funds to run an international service! :rolleyes:

Bertie did want an Irish service for the UK but if it means an increase in the license fee :mad:

Ulsterman 1690

Some countries have overcome the rights problem by encrypting their channels on satellite but turning off the encryption during "home produced" programming but that would be too much like rocket science for RTE :rolleyes:

Other countries just dont bother encrypting at all

Round Cable

Our poor National Broadcaster couldn't possition DOG's correctly, what the chances they could do that?

byte

I don't know how straight forward it would be to encrypt/don't encrypt transmissions with Sky. Sky would probably want admin fees for pressing a button or setting up a timer for for FTA/encrypted switching.

All they need is a channel like Tara TV or BBC Choice, FTA on Astra 2 and perhaps Hotbird. All RTE content, reruns galore during the day, with PrimeTime, News, etc runnign simultaneous with RTE One/Two and just like other satellite operators, fill the night schedule with infomercials to help funding. It can't be that hard to make up surely?

L1011

NASN drop from being stand alone to FTA and back again on what appears to be a whim, so I'm sure its possible for RTE to do a RAI jobbie and encrypt during the premiership football, first run shows, etc.

DMC

byte wrote:

I don't know how straight forward it would be to encrypt/don't encrypt transmissions with Sky. Sky would probably want admin fees for pressing a button or setting up a timer for for FTA/encrypted switching.

They do it for the Premiership matches at 3pm Saturdays for boxes up North handily enough...

TVDX

It is a fairly informed reply.
Somebody who was actually interested must have been manning the customer service PC that day.

But why is the most obvious point missed out on?.
Irish FTV cards.
What is all this rubbish about looking into cable carriers about?.
The service is out there.
Make an FTV card for Ireland.
The black market will carry it beyond our shores and save alot of money.
Seems simple to me.

Before we talk about sorting out europe, maybe they should think about helping the country that funds them change to digitial instead of thinking about RTE worldwide.

L1011

DMC wrote:

They do it for the Premiership matches at 3pm Saturdays for boxes up North handily enough...

Thats turning on CA rather than turning on/off the entire scrambling but, yes, fair point - they can change Videoguard flags when they need to clearly.

Sparky

a FTV card for ireland should be the first step, i dont know how many people who have asked if they could get RTE on satellite without subscribing to sky.

SPDUB

MYOB wrote:

Thats turning on CA rather than turning on/off the entire scrambling but, yes, fair point - they can change Videoguard flags when they need to clearly.

Can Sky be doing that ?

Presumably RTE wouldn't mind it being seen but Sky clearly wouldn't want it seen

L1011

SPDUB wrote:

Can Sky be doing that ?

Presumably RTE wouldn't mind it being seen but Sky clearly wouldn't want it seen

RTE presumably have the ability to control their own encryption. However:

Their EPG number and their satellite transponder are provided by Sky in exchange for them being on the family pack. This deal runs for quite some time yet (is it till 2011 or similar?). That would have to be sorted out first, although I'm sure we could use Comreg to steamroll it a bit...

Mossy Monk

2008 is when the deal for RTÉ on Sky runs out

watty

Tara didn't really lose money as it was the high price that RTE charged them for Rights!

It is an amazing co-incidence that Tara plug was pulled the SAME time "secret" deal was done between RTE and Sky for "free" carriage.

IMO RTE was not committed to Tara, nor ever has been to International service.

Ireland one of, or possibly only developed nation to never have run a SW international service.

bk

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there an EU directive that specificaly says that a broadcaster can transmit on satelitte without encrpytion and not have to worry about it being picked up in other countries with regards to broadcasting rights.

I think it is this directive:
http://www.screenonline.org.uk/tv/id/1107720/index.html

I believe this is how the BBC and soon ITV can go freesat and not worry about people in Ireland or other parts of Europe picking it up.

If the BBC and ITV can do it why can't RTE. Just broadcast RTE 1, 2 and TG4 on freesat to people in Ireland, if some people in the UK can also pick it up, well fine, we can get their channels, why shouldn't we return the favour.

As for RTE getting on the Sky EPG and a good number, well I wouldn't worry about it. If RTE went freesat in the morning, then Sky wouldn't pull them from the EPG or change nubmers. If they did, their Irish customers would scream bloddy murder and drop Sky all together, it is bad enough that BBC and ITV aren't on the Irish EPG.

I think RTE are actually seriously thinking about this, I recently saw a document from RTE on another thread, about the future of broadcasting and it specifically mentions freesat as a possiblity

Macy

Simple reorganisation of the channels and RTE could do it easy enough.
RTE1 - Home produced shows so FTA.
RTE2 - All the shows with rights issues. Sport already there, so only a few shows from memory and the Wednesday night movie maybe that would need to move over. Have that FTV ( ).

I think the issue of international viewers should be down played - what about us who pay the licence fee who want digital quality TV?

btw TV3 could potentially lead the way on this as all their content will be going FTA soon anyway. They should make the jump first, particularly given their reception problems in much of the country.

Greenman

Mailed back Beverly Hanly Secretary to Audience Council and asked her to read and consider the thread, if I get something back I'll post it!!!

BTW the e-mail AD I mailed was audiencecouncil@rte.ie Feel free to mail this AD and tell us how you get on.

Richard

SPDUB wrote:

Can Sky be doing that ?

Presumably RTE wouldn't mind it being seen but Sky clearly wouldn't want it seen

RTE will be controlling this themselves (presumably) but it will be due to the agreements they have with UK rights holders, including Sky. The fact that Sky runs the platform is not, I don't believe, an issue.

Lennoxschips

Ireland has one of the world's largest diaspora and RTE doesn't see the marketing potential. I think they know it will make a tidy profit, they are just pretending it won't in order to get some money off the gov't.

I don't want to see US sitcoms or big sport matches which I watch at the pub in town anyway. An international channel on satellite showing Irish news, docus, soaps, comedy, re-runs, old soccer/GAA matches would cost RTE very little to run and the potential in advertising revenue is more than they think. It's that silly deal with Sky that's stopping them from doing it.

parsi

How much profit would they make if its FTA ? Some guy in Amsterdam (for example) isn't going to buy systemax90drycowantibrucelloisstuff thats advertised during the All-Ireland...

L1011

parsi wrote:

How much profit would they make if its FTA ? Some guy in Amsterdam (for example) isn't going to buy systemax90drycowantibrucelloisstuff thats advertised during the All-Ireland...

Carry different, pan-european ads like Sky News International, CNN International, BBC World, etc, do, if theres an RTE International

If its just FTA, they're going to be pretending nobody outside of Ireland watchs it anyway, so not a cent more for international ads.

Lennoxschips

RTE holds the rights to all the home grown programmes they would show on an international channel anyway, so that would cost them nothing.

They have the uplink facilities.

All they would need to pay for is the bandwith on satellite and for some guy at Donnybrook to press play on the VT. The bandwith is cheap, even the likes of auctioncrap.tv can afford it.

I'm sure the likes of Guinness and Aer Lingus would be very interested in running ads on and RTE International channel.

Like I said, the only thing stopping them is that ridiculous deal with Sky.

Elmo

I honestly don't understant why RTE, TV3 and TG4 don't get together to provide as service to the rest of the World FTA.

7 - 10 Ireland AM
10 - 12 Best of The Den
12 - 12:30 Fair City
12:30 - 1 Ros Na Run
1 - 1:30 RTE News
1:30 - 2 Dustin's Daily News
2 - 2:30 Nationwide
2:30 - 3:20 The Big Bite
3:20 - 4:50 The Afternoon Show
4:50 - 5:00 News Headlines
5:00 - 5:30 Fair City
5:30 - 6:01 TV3 News
6:01 - 7:00 RTE News
7:00 - 7:30 Nuacht TG4
7:30 - 9 RTE One (EastEnders replaced by Nationwide)
9 - 9:30 RTE News
9:30 - 12:00 Mix of RTE ONE, RTE TWO, TV3 and TG4
12:00 - 7 Current Affairs Programming

I know its very newsy but what else do Irish TV stations provide except that and other show that have rights issuse surrounding them (including sport)

L1011

Lennoxschips wrote:

Like I said, the only thing stopping them is that ridiculous deal with Sky.

RTE already have ways and means of uplinking to Hotbird, shoving RTE International of a kind onto that would be cheap enough and not 'on the Sky platform' to be buggered by that deal, plus those who really want it would be able to get it; all across Europe.

irishgeo

MYOB wrote:

Thats turning on CA rather than turning on/off the entire scrambling but, yes, fair point - they can change Videoguard flags when they need to clearly.

They know how to do this. Anyone remenber when the GAA through it toys out of the pram about Digital Sat coverage, RTE had it timed so encryption kicked in ,we got blanks screens. I remenber they had it timed , because Ireland were playing spain and with extra time and penos , the timer kicked in midway throuch someone interview after the match. Cue the owner of the pub hastily flicking through TV channels and remotes.

RTE could not organise a piss up in a brewery.

Sparky

Macy wrote:

Simple reorganisation of the channels and RTE could do it easy enough.
RTE1 - Home produced shows so FTA.
RTE2 - All the shows with rights issues. Sport already there, so only a few shows from memory and the Wednesday night movie maybe that would need to move over. Have that FTV ( ).

I think the issue of international viewers should be down played - what about us who pay the licence fee who want digital quality TV?

btw TV3 could potentially lead the way on this as all their content will be going FTA soon anyway. They should make the jump first, particularly given their reception problems in much of the country.

it would be interesting if freesat asked RTE to join, (if they did, not saying they wont)

It would be a fair deal, as we will be able to get itv and bbc and they could get rte and tv3.
Of course we could always use a regional rte for europe on freesat.

Just an idea

Greenman

Just mailed RTE audiencecouncil@rte.ie
Hi Beverly,
Just thought I'd let you know that ITV,1,2,3,&4 are now free to air on satellite since today, so thats all the BBC's & ITV's so why not an RTE channel FTA???!!!! Did you read this link??? http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=316461 I would welcome your views and are the higher management aware how popular RTE would be Eurowide???

Let me know soon please!!!

Regards JD!!!!

Eurorunner

Email sent.

Darren

If there is ever proof of demand for RTE in the UK, you just need to look at the sheer number of subbed Irish sky systems which are now resident in the UK. I know at least 10 people in London who have them. Setanta are well on the case with their 'Have you got the bottle campaign'.

Greenman

Darren wrote:

If there is ever proof of demand for RTE in the UK, you just need to look at the shher number of subbed Irish sky systems which are now resident in the UK. I know at least 10 people in London who have them. Setanta are well on the case with their 'Have you got the bottle campaign'.

Tell us more about this "Have you got the bottle" campaign!!!

Elmo

I some how don't think RTE actually listen to the Audience Council.

Mainly because most of them said when they applied for the position that Winning Streak was one of the shows they didn't like.

:rolleyes: 4 years on and its still on the air.

Darren

Greenman wrote:

Tell us more about this "Have you got the bottle" campaign!!!

There is a lot of pubs in London who have Irish registered sky digiboxes. They are showing the GAA matches on TG4 and RTE and saving themselves a fortune on Setanta subs. When you watch the Setanta feeds for pubs on 12.5W they put and image of a magners bottle on the bottom right of the screen, very much like sky sports' pint glass.

During the adverts they encourage landlords and punters to inform on pubs that are showing matches with no bottle who are most likely using a subbed irish sky digibox.

They seem worried about this. The catchprase of the advert is 'Have you got the bottle?', referring to the magners bottle on the screen.

Should point out in London they call Bulmers, Magners. I have heard this is due to the copyright of the Bulmers name in the UK.

Greenman

Just mailed The Irish Times lettersed@irish-times.ie
Let me know if its printed!!! Thanks!!!


Madam,
Since today the 1st of Nov UTV is free to air on satellite throughout the island of Ireland, for over two and half years all the BBC TV channels have been free to air on satellite ie no $ky subscription needed!!!

Why should people in the ROI who pay a TV licence have to pay $ky TV to watch RTE on satellite?

I feel this is very unjust and a rip off.

Regards a chara ,,,,,,,,, Belgium & Ireland!!!

bungeecork

watty wrote:

Ireland one of, or possibly only developed nation to never have run a SW international service.

Isn't that mainly because when the fequencies and signal strengths were been dished out in the old days, Ireland was not represented at the international whatever and ended up with the frequencies that nobody else wanted with tiny power limitations?

At least that's what my old (bitter) history teacher once said.

LFCFan

RTE don't even manage their current slot on the Sky System very well. i.e. So many shows don't start on time which leads to missing bits from Sky+ recordings. All other channels make sure the Digiguide is updated if there are overruns or time changes but RTE don't. Even with the maximum before and after recording funtion selected I've still missed the end or start of shows because of RTE incompetance.

watty

No we are one of the earliest Broadcasters. We had the 252LW for nearly 70 year before using it.

I'm sure there were once SW allocated. There were or are Satellite slots allocated for Ireland and UK. Sky is using a "stolen" Central European slot, SES Astra had to pay big compensation to Eutelsat. That is why some Sky channels and some Central Europe channels are on Eurobird (a Eutelsat bird, the other sats at 28.2E belong to SES-Astra).

Elmo

LW252 was atlantic 252 (if it was still running as that it would be know as RTÉ Atlantic 252 :rolleyes: ) and is now RTÉ Radio One. We didn't have it for 70 years with out using it. 50 max.

Mossy Monk

LFCFan wrote:

RTE don't even manage their current slot on the Sky System very well. i.e. So many shows don't start on time which leads to missing bits from Sky+ recordings. All other channels make sure the Digiguide is updated if there are overruns or time changes but RTE don't. Even with the maximum before and after recording funtion selected I've still missed the end or start of shows because of RTE incompetance.

are you sure that all other channels update their EPG data? i have only noticed Sky and the BBC do it. Channel 4 sometimes

Ulsterman 1690

We had the 252LW for nearly 70 year before using it!

252 was only allocated to Ireland in 1975 (effective Nov 1978)

Ireland one of, or possibly only developed nation to never have run a SW international service.

Ireland DID have an official SW service during the 1940's (and several UNofficial ones right up to the present day ) but during the second half of the 20th Century Ireland was indeed about the only country in the WORLD ("developed" or otherwise -Although its a stupid term IMNSHO) not to have an official SW service bar some very small countries (Lichtenstein for example) which didnt have much in the way of LW MW or FM radio either

bungeecork

watty wrote:

...I'm sure there were once SW allocated...

A pretty complete record of RTE and short wave broadcasting here

L1011

watty wrote:

Sky is using a "stolen" Central European slot, SES Astra had to pay big compensation to Eutelsat.

You sure about that? 28.5E was Deutsche Telecom/Deutsche Post's position from 1990 until 2000, and most of the central european services that have now left Eurobird 1 - austrian and czech/slovak mainly - were carried on it originally. Eutelsat seem to have been the Johnny-come-latelys to 28E, as DFS and SES were both up their before them.

BrianD

MYOB wrote:

Go FTA, solves most of their problems, its not like they'd be "targetting" anywhere else.... If they've any sense whatsoever they've been buying all their rights on the basis of potentially being FTA on DSAT anyway...

The first point states exactly why they can't go FTA and this is the only reason why RTE won't be going that way in the foreseeable future. Unless we are happy to see a massive hike in the TV licence, RTE just could not afford the rights. Really anyone who tries to compare the RTE to the fact ITV/BBC have gone FTA does not understand the key issues of broadcasting. If you don't have the rights you can not get onto these platforms.

The other issues can be sorted out in time. RTE has a remit to provide a 'home' TV service and is regulated differently than BCI stations. This will change as the BCI and RTE Authority are supposed to merge into a super-authority.

Irish geo - RTE's GAA went blue screen because they did not have the rights to broadcast it internationally (Setanta have international rights). AFAIR, the "Irish card married to box"system wasn't in place so RTE had to cut its coverage for the duration of the game. I think viewers in Sky in Ireland also had to endure this.

Tara TV was born well before it's time. If it was launched now it would probably a lot more sucessful. Such a channel could be run quite cheaply on a server in the corner of Montrose. Marketing would be quite costly and there are now plenty of platforms looking for content. A chap from RTE even suggested on Newstalk 106 that they would look at video over IP as a possibility.

IMRO now enforces Sky's copyright in Ireland and a number of pubs have got hefty fines for showing Sky on a domestic sub. I'm sure Setanta will follow suite in the UK.

Tony

MYOB wrote:

You sure about that? 28.5E was Deutsche Telecom/Deutsche Post's position from 1990 until 2000, and most of the central european services that have now left Eurobird 1 - austrian and czech/slovak mainly - were carried on it originally. Eutelsat seem to have been the Johnny-come-latelys to 28E, as DFS and SES were both up their before them.

It is true that SES had to pay big money to use 28.5 as Eutelsat had the rights to use the slot.

Tony

watty wrote:

There were or are Satellite slots allocated for Ireland and UK. Sky is using a "stolen"

Yep the old BSB slot at 31 west

Lennoxschips

Really anyone who tries to compare the RTE to the fact ITV/BBC have gone FTA does not understand the key issues of broadcasting.

People here are advocating that RTE only shows the programmes with no rights issues (Fair City, the news, the lotto, Bosco, news documentaries etc) FTA and turn on the scrambling for anything that has rights problems.

Phen

BrianD wrote:

Unless we are happy to see a massive hike in the TV licence, RTE just could not afford the rights. Really anyone who tries to compare the RTE to the fact ITV/BBC have gone FTA does not understand the key issues of broadcasting. If you don't have the rights you can not get onto these platforms.

How about the EU directive that people have been talking about in this thread? Would that not protect RTE from having to pay for rights for viewers outside of Ireland?

watty

No. That is the major flaw in the directive. In fact BskyB uses the directive to aviod being regulated in Ireland and only pay Irish Subscriber VAT to UK.

Even RTE shows they would have to pay actors, writers etc more under various agreements if audience is going to be 20 times larger. I'm told that even FTA of RTE shows in mainland UK would not be financially possible.

With BBC /ITV:
1) They have always since the beginning had large viewer ship and over 75% BEFORE satellite.
2) Ireland is a small percentage of total market.

Few cable systems ever carried RTE in the UK. In 405 days, oddly it was on a cable system in Worchester or Evesham, picked up on a local hill top.

NI Cable and Satellite carriage of RTE came many years after upgrades of RTE UHF allowed many over 60% to pick it up Off Air. There is even a Joint UK/ Irish agreement to distribute TG4 in N.I.

BrianD

Phen wrote:

How about the EU directive that people have been talking about in this thread? Would that not protect RTE from having to pay for rights for viewers outside of Ireland?

What directive? TV without frontiers? This seems to be widely misunderstood by many on this board. While the directive says RTE can broadcast away into the UK if it wishes other EU legislations copperfastens the rights of copyright holders to have exclusive territorial distribution rights and pricing.

In regard to FTA and then scrambling content that has rights issues. This is really a non-runner. It increases the cost of operation and the viewer would simple not tolerate it. I doubt if anyone else does it and I don't think RTE are going to be the first.

As Watty pointed out. presenters and actors would look for more money. Even the music used in RTE programmes would increase in price.

NI carriage of RTE only came after a number of rights issues were cleared up with C4.