Deer calibres

Umiq88

what are the most common deer calibres

is .220 swift and .223rem used for deer and am i right in thinking that i can licence a .223rem as easy as a .22wmr that its treated the same

Rovi

psittacosis wrote:

what are the most common deer calibres

is .220 swift and .223rem used for deer and am i right in thinking that i can licence a .223rem as easy as a .22wmr that its treated the same

Here's the National Parks and Wildlife Service APPLICATION FOR LICENCE TO HUNT DEER form.
It states: "The minimum calibre weapon for hunting deer is a rifle of .22/250 calibre which uses bullets weighing not less than 55 grains."

I'm pretty sure neither .220 Swift or .223 Rem are acceptable to the Wildlife people, and I gather they'd prefer something bigger than .22/250 too.

All the 'regular' fullbore calibres are acceptable for deer hunting- .243, .270, 6.5x55, 25-06, etc, etc, throwing bullets of around 100 grains or bigger.


It has 'traditionally' been as easy to licence a .220 Swift as a .22LR/.22WMR, as "they're the same calibre" :rolleyes:, but the Guards may be on to that one by now. Anyone tried swapping a licence from .22LR to .220 Swift lately?

The .223 Rem has been viewed with deep suspicion, as it's the same thing (kinda :rolleyes:) as the 5.56x45 NATO round used in eeeeeeeevil black assault rifles and would cause spontaneous insurrection and rivers of blood in the streets!
This attitude appears to have mellowed a bit recently, but it's still treated as a fullbore centerfire round (which it is!), and isn't a straightforward swap for a .22LR/.22WMR licence. At least, that's what I've heard from people applying for them

.

FLAG

Hi Folks

Minimum legal calibre for Deer Stalking is .22-250 with associated energy however the minimum recommended calibre would be a .240 with a 100 grain bullet. HCAP Stalker training manual, so the .223 220 and 222 are not acceptable, due to the kinetic energy being lower than the legal minimum.

Regards
FLAG

Babble

Over the water .223 is commonly used as a varmint round for coyotes etc Thats why they call the Mini 14 a "Ranch Rifle".
Although one of the biggest Polar Bears taken was by a granny packing a .22lr (or so the story goes) out for a stroll up north somewhere.

Umiq88

Its just a friend was tellin me that he knew someone that licenced a .220 swift for deer and was interested in doing something of the sort so i guess he's not tellin lies

i was considering swapping the licence over and sellin my .22wmr but ive become attached to it its my first rifle and its a nice little gun

Traumadoc

In some states in Australia the minimum is 270 win for deer.

On our goat culls we are not allowed to use .223 ,although the kangaroo hunters seem to use it exclusively, they have to get head shots as the abbatoirs will not accept chest shots. They find it the most accurate and cheapest.

Umiq88

can anyone give me any info on the 2 guns .220 swift and .223rem

id like to know how much to expect to pay for a good second hand or new gun
how accutate are they
what are ammo prices like

Babble

psittacosis wrote:

can anyone give me any info on the 2 guns .220 swift and .223rem

id like to know how much to expect to pay for a good second hand or new gun
how accutate are they
what are ammo prices like

over here .223 is pretty hard to get at the moment because of "the war"

Clare gunner

FLAG wrote:

Hi Folks

Minimum legal calibre for Deer Stalking is .22-250 with associated energy however the minimum recommended calibre would be a .240 with a 100 grain bullet. HCAP Stalker training manual, so the .223 220 and 222 are not acceptable, due to the kinetic energy being lower than the legal minimum.

Regards
FLAG

So what is the minimum kinetic energy required under Irish law?Also is this muzzle velocity or at a set distance of?Also is this now statue law or just another "policy and recommendaton"type thing?Reason I am asking as going by some of this a shotgun slug would thenqualify as a ligit deer round,if fired from a rifled bore.

Babble

Clare gunner wrote:

So what is the minimum kinetic energy required under Irish law?Also is this muzzle velocity or at a set distance of?Also is this now statue law or just another "policy and recommendaton"type thing?Reason I am asking as going by some of this a shotgun slug would thenqualify as a ligit deer round,if fired from a rifled bore.

Well shotgun slugs will work quite nicely on bears that wander into hunting camps

jaycee

OK quick comparison..

This is from the Federal Ammo co.

---

100

---

Drop in inches

---

Load

---

Bullet weight

---

Zero

---

200

---

300----400
FED AE223G---223

---

50gr

---

2.7

---

11.1---27.9
FED P220V----Swift

---

52gr

---

1.1

---

5.5---14.6

Swift energy at 400 yards 574 Ft Lbs
223 energy at 400 Yards 321 ft Lbs

Not bad for a "Little" .22 eh..? :rolleyes:

Umiq88

so swift would be the better option then because its easyier to licence and mor accurate thanks for that guys what sort of scope would you recommend putting on a swift i think one i have might be a little bit to weak 12x might be better or what do others useq

jaycee

For comfort and target shooting ...

A decent 18x or 24x scope is fine...

Look for a NcStar , a Hawke or if you want to spend a bit more.. a Swift scope

Sniper220

Info on .220swift
I have been shooting with a swift for some years now and i find it an
awsome round. I have had no problem taking foxs as far as 400yd+ thats
with Federal 52g bthp:D the remington 50g psp are not quite as good at long range espically if its anyway windy. as for scopes go for schmidt & Bender they are expensive but there well worth it!!

Rovi

jaycee wrote:

OK quick comparison..

This is from the Federal Ammo co.

<snip>

Swift energy at 400 yards 574 Ft Lbs
223 energy at 400 Yards 321 ft Lbs

Not bad for a "Little" .22 eh..? :rolleyes:

Compare with the more conventional deer calibres and bullet weights-
.243 Win (100g) energy at 400 yards- 900-1100 Ft Lbs
25-06 Rem (100g) energy at 400 yards- 1100-1200 Ft Lbs
.270 Win (130g) energy at 400 yards- 1300-1400 Ft Lbs
.308 Win (150g) energy at 400 yards- 1100-1400 Ft Lbs
6.5x55 Swedish (140g) energy at 400 yards- around 1100 Ft Lbs

and-
.22/250 (60g) energy at 400 yards- around 600 Ft Lbs

There's nothing to choose between the .22/250 and the .220 Swift from the point of view of bullet weight and energy, but some desk jockey somewhere decided that the first was acceptable and the second wasn't. As FLAG said, they'd now prefer at least .240 calibre and 100 grain bullets.


.

jeffshc1

Babble wrote:

over here .223 is pretty hard to get at the moment because of "the war"

In a twist of events...
I have been looking for Winchester .223 for months. Finally found some a couple of weeks ago.
The bullets are seated at different depths (only a mm or less) + it’s made in Israel.


On a lighter note Don’t piss off a .22 packin granny!

Keelan

Jeff, where did you get the Winchester .223 ammo?

Sniper220

It does amuse me in the US and Canada it is legal to use .220swift on Deer but yet aparently here you cant! The deer here must have a thicker hides or is Bertie spenting tax payers money to fit them all out with flack jackets!:D

Clare gunner

I was hoping FLAG or somone on this hunters training course would answer this one. I just find it very suss that immediately there is this "minimum caliber"requirement all of a sudden for deer.It seems to be "gun control"by our own.
Who decided this? was it Govt or a non govt appointed body that seems to know whats best for all deer hunters in Ireland?

What are they basing this on that the 223 is an inferior round for deer?Granted it is a marginal calibre more suited for varmits or paper punching.But it is actually allowed on the continent as a calibre for Roe deer.Now ,we dont have any Roe deer in the 26 anymore,and in principle I agree with their arguement.BUT whats gets me is suddenly this dare I say holier than thou attitude to all and sundry calibres and deer hunters that dont meet the mighty .204 minimum .
It wasnt too long ago that we were dropping deer here with 22 hornets.[Known worldwide as the poachers calibre].Now it seems that somone or som body is decideing what is right for all of us to shoot with.Where were these people who were so concerned with "animal welfare" and humane calibres during the last 32 years???
I would ask of this deer hunting course quite a few other questions.But I feel I wouldnt get very many answers.

Trojan911

psittacosis wrote:

can anyone give me any info on the 2 guns .220 swift and .223rem

id like to know how much to expect to pay for a good second hand or new gun
how accutate are they
what are ammo prices like

psittacosis,

I traded my Hornet in for a new .223 CZ 527, or it was €800 new off the shelf, I put a 9-13in Harris bipod and a 10-40X50 scope on it. It is incredibly accurate, albeit I only have it zeroed for 200yds.

I use Sako 55gr soft point ammo I normally pay €21.95 for a box of 20, (if anyone knows where I can get a cheaper price please advise). It is used for foxes and one shot is sufficient, I have never seen a fox get up after being shot with one of these.

I was impressed with the Hornet but wanted more power without going into the .243 or .270 league. I had no problem with the local Guards, in & out, licence altered & stamped within 5 minutes and the renewel came through no problem.


TJ911...

Rew

Iv priced 55gr FMJ's from als little as €9.50 a box. hollow points were more expensive but I dont think they were more then about €15. I donn't recall brands though im afraid.

That was with Outdoor Hobby in leixlip

Trojan911

Rew,

Thanks for that, even €15 is a lot better than €22. Those sound like excellent prices...


TJ911...

Rew

Im no ammo expert so that stuff might be dirt but its worth shopping around.

MP

Clare gunner wrote:

I was hoping FLAG or somone on this hunters training course would answer this one. I just find it very suss that immediately there is this "minimum caliber"requirement all of a sudden for deer.It seems to be "gun control"by our own.
Who decided this? was it Govt or a non govt appointed body that seems to know whats best for all deer hunters in Ireland?

What are they basing this on that the 223 is an inferior round for deer?Granted it is a marginal calibre more suited for varmits or paper punching.But it is actually allowed on the continent as a calibre for Roe deer.Now ,we dont have any Roe deer in the 26 anymore,and in principle I agree with their arguement.BUT whats gets me is suddenly this dare I say holier than thou attitude to all and sundry calibres and deer hunters that dont meet the mighty .204 minimum .
It wasnt too long ago that we were dropping deer here with 22 hornets.[Known worldwide as the poachers calibre].Now it seems that somone or som body is decideing what is right for all of us to shoot with.Where were these people who were so concerned with "animal welfare" and humane calibres during the last 32 years???
I would ask of this deer hunting course quite a few other questions.But I feel I wouldnt get very many answers.

Just curious. If you were on the Continent with your legal .223 stalking Roe deer and a big red stag appears, do you shoot or not?

jeffshc1

Keelan wrote:

Jeff, where did you get the Winchester .223 ammo?

Sadly the enemy of small business everywhere, a place called Wally World. (Wal-Mart)

FLAG

Hi Clare Gunner

In response to your query with respect to .223, it is quite simply an issue of legislation, the Wildlife Act of 1976 specifies the minimum calibre required for shooting deer, it is .22-250 with a minimum bullet weight of 55 grains and a specific minimum kinetic energy, the figure escapes me right now, perhaps someone else might post it. Unfortunately the .223 does not meet the minimum kinetic energy requirement from what I understand.

Now there is mimimum legal requirement and then there is what is recommended as a mimimum on deer species, that being in the HCAPP manual and being a minimum of .240. Having shot deer myself I use 6.5 x 55 which copes with all eventualities, 100 grain for smaller deer and 140 etc for larger species.

If it was not a long time ago that you were dropping deer with .22 hornets you are either very ignorant of the legislation or have never shot deer, since the wildlife act of 1976 the minimum calibre has been .22-250, using anyhing less and particularily .22 hornet would have been illegal and reckless for very obvious reasons, I hope there is not carity on this issue.

Regards

Umiq88

tbh honest thats bs i know people who have shot deer with a .22 wmr they wouldnt do it now but back then laws werent exactly enforced well but once your able to place your shot in the right place you'll take a deer down all you need to do is get close enough its easy enough get a high powered rifle and shoot em from 300 yards away

Clare gunner

MP wrote:

Just curious. If you were on the Continent with your legal .223 stalking Roe deer and a big red stag appears, do you shoot or not?

No you dont shoot.[1] Because you would be out for a specific quarry with the 223 at that moment.If you were out for anything bigger you would be up in the big 30 or 7mm calibres.However ever see what one of those does to a Roe deer?[Picture an animal in size of a appx 4 week old calf]Venison Gulash anyone?
Flag
I didnt say I was dropping deer with a 22hornet.I said the general WE.In other words during the 70s/80s it was quite an "acceptable" calibre to use down this part of the world,and I know a few people who were granted liscenses to hunt deer solely because they were using that calibre.

As for me never having shot deer,I have hunted since I was eight,in the USA,Germany,[mostly]Hungary,and Ireland. I have shot them with everything from bows ,crossbows,[USA]shotguns,to rifles.[Ireland,Hungary,Germany]I was keepering on an Irish estate looking after deer and wild game in the 80s as my first gainful employment,.So I do know, albeit not as much as you obvisouly,a bit about hunting deer.

Also look back to the Wildlife act 1976,this thing about the 22/250 the then only marginal calibre,as the 223 was the evil banned "armalite" round.What else was there?Anything above 22/250?Nope.Anything below 22/250 ?22mag,22 hornet, wer the most common in those days.So of course the 22/250was going to be the caliber of choice in the legislation.Albiet still a poor choice for red deer.
My point is on this,is just because there is legislation on a certain calibre,doesnt mean necessarily that it will be followed to the letter around here.
.

Trojan911

Rew,

No prob, rang them this morning & they have what I want (for a lot less as well) sadly I would have to go to them to purchase as they cannot ship via post/courier, so it would not be worth my while to drive all the way up. Thanks anyway....


TJ911...

Rew

Guy in waterford had similar prices when i checked so shop around a bit and im sure you will find a better price.

Markhor

I would just like to make a few comments on the choice of deer calibres for shooting in Ireland. Many of you will be aware that all rifle calibres were available prior to early seventies for shooting deer then restrictions were introduced whereby only the .22 cal was legal. The .22/250 became the principle calibre for shooting deer with a minimum bullet weight of 55 grains, although the European 5.6 x 57mm RWS and 5.6 x 61mm gained in popularity at a later stage.
These light calibres can be used to kill deer under specific conditions but they are NOT the best or the most suitable, I feel the same applies to the .243 Winchester. Their bullets are too light, from 55 to 105 grains, they lack sufficient mass for reliable penetration and are poor performers in windy conditions. Having been a deer stalker for the past twentyeight years and having spent a great deal of time in the outdoors I can honestly say that the woods and fields of Ireland are littered with wounded deer from September to February, caused principally by the careless use of rifles which are of too light a calibre this includes all high velocity .22's and the .243 Win. It is much
more satifactory to use one of the 6.5mm's or a .270 Win, 308 Win or 30-06.

Clare gunner

[

These light calibres can be used to kill deer under specific conditions but they are NOT the best or the most suitable, I feel the same applies to the .243 Winchester. Their bullets are too light, from 55 to 105 grains, they lack sufficient mass for reliable penetration and are poor performers in windy conditions. Having been a deer stalker for the past twentyeight years and having spent a great deal of time in the outdoors I can honestly say that the woods and fields of Ireland are littered with wounded deer from September to February, caused principally by the careless use of rifles which are of too light a calibre this includes all high velocity .22's and the .243 Win. It is much
more satifactory to use one of the 6.5mm's or a .270 Win, 308 Win or 30-06.[/

Well said.
However it can come down to what your Super will liscense you with as well.I have heard that some supers will not grant anything inc 270 and beyond ,without adding all sorts of weird and wonderful clauses to your liscense so as to make it a Hobsons choice as to what "22" you are going to be going deer hunting with.

thelurcher

State of Maine in the US has .22WMR as the minimum for deer.

Of course the .22WMR will drop, say, a fallow - why wouldn't it


BUT it would want to be a neck shot at 50yrds for example - not heart/lungs at 400yrds :rolleyes:

Umiq88

the reason for wounded dear is carelessness and incorrectly placed shot a higher calbire might solve this but then again if they arent hitting the spot i dont think i would like people going around with a higher calbire

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

50 yards??? You must be good... the only deer you would get 50 yards to is a dead one...

As for carelessness and incorrectly placed shots, we aren't all as good as you mate. It will happen to the best of us. I have seen deer been shot in the chest and neck (almost definate kill area) and the poor auld thing got away. We all know and have seen deer get away from us even when hit with properly placed shots with 22-250 calibres and higher.

thelurcher

Iamxavier: I often get close to around the 50yrd mark on the lamp with the lurcher - not that I'm after them or anything as it's illegal in this country.

Seen a few tree stands around my place in clearings that have every point <50ish yrds.
Know a few lads into bows and they're working at around 30yrds.

'As for carelessness and incorrectly placed shots, we aren't all as good as you mate.'
Are you talking to me
I didn't say I was a good shot - I'll say it now though: "I am a good shot!"

Not looking piss anyone off now but could you argue that a 22wmr would actually be better at close ranges for neck shots than say a 22/250?
Likelyhood is that a larger more powerfull round will pass through if you miss the spine - the 22wmr will disentigrate much more easily therefore using up it's energy in the animal which is what you want - better chance of dropping it.
Did a lot of bunny bashing over the long weekend with remington premiers - the polymer tipped 22wmr ones - and they really just explode on impact - wouldn't like to see the damage they'd do at short range to a fallow throat and couldn't imagine the animal would get far?

Clare gunner

[

Seen a few tree stands around my place in clearings that have every point <50ish yrds.
Know a few lads into bows and they're working at around 30yrds

.

Well, THAT one is illegal around here for sure.Dunno why though.A good Arrow kill is effective as a rifle shot except in a different way,and if you were allowed to use a certain type of poison here as well[which is harmless to humans but leathl to deer].You would drop them like a gun shot with little or no meat damage.
BUT INMHO if you are only going to be shooting at 50 yards,it would be a perfect distance for shotgun slugs,if that was legal here too.Enough calibre and whomp at that distance for an assured kill.

macnas

Markho wrote:

I feel the same applies to the .243 Winchester.

Bullsh1t

thelurcher

Yea Clare gunner there are loads of options - you could hit them with the 4x4 if you wanted!
I have a box of buckshot at home - still wondering what I bought it for though!
Was on the phone last year to a fella in Canada that had a season record for a moose - got it at 30yrds with his bow.

Personally I think if you want a guaranteed way of not wounding the animals you should only take them with a decent lurcher.

My point overall is that just because the law of the land doesn't allow somthing doesn't mean it's not 'humane' or effective.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Yea that was directed at you Lurcher. Wouldn't the grain of the bullet and bullet type have more to do with it than the actual calibre?

Treestands are totally differant. Just wait for the deer to approach. Like lying in a ditch, I was talking about stalking. It's extremely difficult to get within 30-50 yards of a deer.

Clare gunner

[

QUOTE=thelurcher]Yea Clare gunner there are loads of options - you could hit them with the 4x4 if you wanted!

Yeah.Messy and Suss and roadkill deer is prety banged ,to the point of bring inedible.Could snare them as well.

I have a box of buckshot at home - still wondering what I bought it for though!

Foxes???

Personally I think if you want a guaranteed way of not wounding the animals you should only take them with a decent lurcher.

Be a pretty big Lurcher to hold andbring down a deer. Sure you dont mean a deer hound?

My point overall is that just because the law of the land doesn't allow somthing doesn't mean it's not 'humane' or effective.[/QUOTE]
True,but then you have got to wonder why it was banned in the first place.
Was it concern for animal welfare,that it was an effective method of aqiring a free food supply that anyone could do?,or because some group in power decided it was unsporting ,and considerd it heft of their sporting rights?

Markhor

Macnas

I see you have taken exception to my opinion on the suitability of the .243 Win for shooting deer and I can only conclude from your response that either
you are a novice without much experience and actually have done very little deer shooting, or you have really wounded more deer than you realise or care to admit, you probably thought you missed !

macnas

Markhor wrote:

Macnas

I see you have taken exception to my opinion on the suitability of the .243 Win for shooting deer and I can only conclude from your response that either
you are a novice without much experience and actually have done very little deer shooting, or you have really wounded more deer than you realise or care to admit, you probably thought you missed !

I hope your not trying to tell me that in your 28 years of deer hunting that you've never wounded a deer. What calibre were you using in '77? I can only conclude that your advanced years and failing eyesight have forced you to use a 30-06 when your shooting deer in the arse. 6.5x55, .270, .308 and 30-06 are all excellent calibres but to say that a 100gr .243 is too light and lacks reliable penetration is simply rubbish. Anyway, welcome to the Board, there's always room for another Deer Hunting Legend.

MP

Markhor wrote:

having spent a great deal of time in the outdoors I can honestly say that the woods and fields of Ireland are littered with wounded deer from September to February, caused principally by the careless use of rifles which are of too light a calibre

How do you know this is true? Could it be because some stalkers just don't bother to follow up a wounded animal or the fact that they do not have access to a good dog to search for it? Deer can get to cover even if hit with some of the heavier calibres like .308 or 30-06.

thelurcher

Clare gunner: Doesn't have to be that big a dog at all.
Perfecly legal in England and Wales by day up until this year - not sure now.

Once a dog has the nack they make it look easy.
Some lads I know used to be getting into double figures a week on Roe and smaller.
I personally think the fallow are another story - lots of people barely rate them though - but then my dogs weren't great.

I never saw it but there are a few well know lurcher men that have had dogs that could take a red single handed :eek:

Markhor

Macnas

Your reply duly noted and I have wounded deer with a high velocity .22 that is why I am trying to get my point of view across to potential deer hunters so they wont be lulled into the false idea that these calibres are the best for deer hunting. If you read my original comment I didn't say the HV .22's and .243 Win would not kill deer, they will, at relatively close range and under ideal conditions.
If you choose to use a HV .22 or .243 then your opportunities become much more limited as the above criteria cannot always be satisfied each time a stalker takes to the field but why bother using them when there are much better choices currently available from most gun dealers in Ireland.
By all means use them, but wisely, by getting in close and not shooting at extended ranges as if firing at a paper target.

Markhor

MP
You ask how I know there are lots of wouded deer about the place,
because I have seen them limping with broken shoulders and damaged hind legs during and after the deer hunting season, and it has been my cause to finish them off as intructed by my local Wildlife Officer.

Clare gunner

thelurcher wrote:

Clare gunner: Doesn't have to be that big a dog at all.
Perfecly legal in England and Wales by day up until this year - not sure now.

Once a dog has the nack they make it look easy.
Some lads I know used to be getting into double figures a week on Roe and smaller.
I personally think the fallow are another story - lots of people barely rate them though - but then my dogs weren't great.

A lurcher taking a Roe and muntjac no problem,a Fallow up to a Red.THAT I would have to see.[I take it you are not in Ireland Re your comment on Roe deer?] Only dog i ever heard of that type doing that was a mastif type critter.

Markhor,MP ,Macnas
To put into perspective,the Swedes have been dropping MOOSE with 6.5 Swedish Mausers since year dot.Not exactly a calibre suited for moose.My cousin shot his first bull moose in Alaska with four shots from a from a semi auto HK 30/06.And later he said he was glad he had the semi as he said the first three shots just seemed to make the Bull twitch,the fourth shatterd the spine .The first three were in the chest cavity one had nicked the heart as well.Due to the fact that this was in the rut and this was a moving target,is what he explained was the requirement of four shots,as he is usually a one shot one kill man.
Point is alot will come down to the type of shot placement and wether you are shooting a running target or a standing target. Sure you can drop a big animal with a small calibre IF you can place the shot in the most vital area,and this is best achived if the critter is standing still.
If it is however pumped up and running in the rut and you hunt in timber where snap shots are a possibility a heavier calibre is proably adviseable.
If you hunt in the open moors or fields and you can get close by stalking then maybe a light and fast is in order.Or use a cal appropriate to your game size.I'm sure you can drop a red with a 22lr,but how often will you be able to pull off that shot?
Best is use what you have,use it a lot,and get accurate with it.Then you will drop anything.

thelurcher

Clare gunner: Been into lurchers a fair while now and there's an awefull lot of lads out doing it.

I'm Irish but as I said it's illegal here - people are taking roe, cwd and muntjac in good numbers in the UK.
Fallow and Sika are no big deal - and I've seen relativley mediocre dogs knock them but the Reds are the holy grail alright - never seen one taken and to be honest I'm not likely to - single handed that is.

macnas

Shot two Fallow this morning with a .243........... and no complaints:D

Markhor

Clare gunner

With respect, I think you have lost track of the discussion, what was in question was the suitability of light calibres for shooting deer in Ireland, not
moose hunting.
In any case you did not say what bullet weight was used by your relative with the 30-06. There are a myriad of bullets available for the 30-06 from 100 right up to 250 grains, and I can well imagine if a light bullet was used it may fail to penetrate and hence kill. I have never hunted moose in north America but from US publications I have read on the subject the
recommendations were for 180 gr when using a 30-06 and the 200 and 220 gr
would even be better. North American moose can weight in excess of three-
quarters of a ton or 1800 pounds so calibres greater than the 30-06 I have
seen mentioned in 'Petersen's Hunting' for shooting them.
The Scandinavian moose is much smaller and I do believe the Swede's use
the 6.5mm with 154 or 160 gr bullet. Bullets of this weight in 6.5mm have
excellent sectional density giving them great penetrative properties. Certainly
in my view the 6.5 is way ahead of the .243 Win and just about equal to the
.270 Win.