1916 Military parade to be reintroduced

Nuttzz

http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/1021/fiannafail.html

The Taoiseach, Bertie Ahern, has announced that the military parade to commemorate the 1916 Rising is to be re-introduced from next Easter Sunday.

Mr Ahern said the parade would commemorate the Volunteers of 1916 and of the War of Independence and proclaim the republicanism of the people of this State


Mr Ahern also told the opening session of the Fianna Fáil Ard Fhéis in Killarney that the Government is establishing a 1916 Centenary Committee to begin planning for a major centenary celebration of the 1916 Rising in 11 years time.

Nice to see that the real army will be taking back the Easter parades...Gerry and co can go "celebrate" down the falls instead

Flex

Nuttzz wrote:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/1021/fiannafail.html



Nice to see that the real army will be taking back the Easter parades...Gerry and co can go "celebrate" down the falls instead

I CANT WAIT TIL EASTER!!!!!!:D thats good to hear

pete

I wonder was this one of P.O'Neill's conditions....

A Dub in Glasgo

This should prove interesting with some of the folk who are ashamed of their history

breandan

Id imagen its in part at least a sign of worry by some within FF at the 'rise of SF' and this may be a way of taking back Republicanism and thus votes from SF.

the_syco

breandan wrote:

Id imagen its in part at least a sign of worry by some within FF at the 'rise of SF' and this may be a way of taking back Republicanism and thus votes from SF.

Aye. This sounds like it, mostly.

Cork

1916 deserves remembrance. Lets face it - It has been hijacked by SF/IRA.

I see nothing wrong reminding Adams & Ferris - there is only one army in this state.

The time is now right to remember 1916. Many countries across the world remember events in history - we are not breaking any new ground here.

Hagar

Cork wrote:

1916 deserves remembrance. Lets face it - It has been hijacked by SF/IRA.

I see nothing wrong reminding Adams & Ferris - there is only one army in this state.

The time is now right to remember 1916. Many countries across the world remember events in history - we are not breaking any new ground here.

How could it have been hijacked by SF/IRA it was their Rising FFS.

At the time they were the only Irish Army.

We should always have remembered it. It was a glorious deed. It was not a thing to hide and be ashamed of.

copacetic

Hagar wrote:

How could it have been hijacked by SF/IRA it was their Rising FFS.

At the time they were the only Irish Army.

We should always have remembered it. It was a glorious deed. It was not a thing to hide and be ashamed of.

not it wasn't, it was our rising, they didn't exist at the time and are far from being able to claim direct lineage...

Diorraing

Hagar wrote:

We should always have remembered it. It was a glorious deed. It was not a thing to hide and be ashamed of.

Well said

thegent

I really think Berty only cares about votes and ways to get them.
I remember years ago watching the 70th anniversary parade (I think) I could be mistaken forgive me if I am but was that the only one since the 50th or was it an annual thing at one stage. If so what happened why was it stopped?

Cork

why was it stopped?

They was a danger itwould as a vehicle for justification for terrorism, carnage and propaganda.

copacetic

thegent wrote:

I really think Berty only cares about votes and ways to get them.
I remember years ago watching the 70th anniversary parade (I think) I could be mistaken forgive me if I am but was that the only one since the 50th or was it an annual thing at one stage. If so what happened why was it stopped?

that was the 75th in 1991, when we had a small parade, the last one before
that was 1970, it was discontinued as soon as the 'troubles' started in '69 as the then government were worried it implied support for terrorism..

simu

Yeah, why not. I'm sick of SF hi-jacking historical events for their own purposes (and also their cynical use of the Irish language but I'll save that for some other thread).

Maskhadov

Personally Im glad to hear its on its way back.. i hope the get it right this time around... It used to be very nationalistic and closed. Hopefully they will try to imitate the european styled French bastile day (of course on a far smaller scale).

Squaletto

simu wrote:

Yeah, why not. I'm sick of SF hi-jacking historical events for their own purposes (and also their cynical use of the Irish language but I'll save that for some other thread).

Finally the Irish Government has woken up to the need of true Irishmen and Women to celebrate the destruction of Dublin and the killing of fellow Irishmen along with the poor British conscripts on the dreary streets of the then United Ireland in an effort to shake off the shackles of British Imperialism. Horray for the peacemaker Bertie. That said I do recall the fact that the Rebels were actually TERRORISTS if one were to go by the media reports of the day. How ironic, today a government well known for its mantra against criminality and terrorism, supporting a parade which celebrates terrorism!!!! Could only happen in Ireland!!!
I wonder if Mc DOOdawl will preside over the whole affair. Now that would be something to see given his outburst about Pearse being a convicted terrorist!!!

murphaph

I agree that this is a very political move by FF to reclaim the republican title that those in SF/IRA have hijacked.

The provisional movement born in the last 40 years cannot claim lineage to 1916.

Now, I don't really care for this sort of miltiary triumphalism thing-it's as cringe inducing to me as the brits and their recent Trafalgar celebrations or the Russians and their various excuses to wheel out missiles on to Red Square, but if we are to celebrate stuff like this then I'd prefer they picked the day the Republic of Ireland act came into force, thus declaring this 26 counties to be a republic called 'Ireland'. Remember, the proclamation read in 1916 claimed the whle island and we no longer accept that as valid as it is not accepted by a sizable minority of this island's inhabitants. Up until that act came into being, we were still a crown dominion, not a republic, so what are we celebrating exactly? It was a failed rbellion after all, just like the ones before it. It was a treaty signed after the later war of independence that set tis country on the road to becoming a republic.

thegent

aha but its ok to do it now that the ira has decomissioned. thanks.

I don’t think Sinn Fein hijacked the day if the government were too scared to celebrate the day because they didn’t want to be seen as supporters of terrorism. no Irish person should be ashamed to commemorate the Easter rising least of all the Irish government.

Diorraing

murphaph wrote:

I'd prefer they picked the day the Republic of Ireland act came into force

You'd prefer to see the day that saw partition sealed for the following 100 years celebrated?

murphaph

Diorraing wrote:

You'd prefer to see the day that saw partition sealed for the following 100 years celebrated?

Hopefully longer.

Cork

Diorraing wrote:

You'd prefer to see the day that saw partition sealed for the following 100 years celebrated?

100 years? Depends on the people of NI.

hill16

There are a lot of hypocrites posting on this thread,they call todays Republicans terrorists for fighting British Rule but Republicans in 1916 were heroes for doing the exact same.Murphaph wants Partition to stay but is quite willing to celebrate the use of force to achieve a 32 County Republic in 1916.

netwhizkid

Fianna Failure using republicanism as a tool of propaganda, tarnishing the name of our great hero's who fought for our independence. What else will bertie the red and miss piggy throw from the hat. 10,000 Protestors in Killarney says it all. only 18mths to go before these corrupt, traitors are removed and i hope that the replacement government bans the Fianna Fail party and begin bringing those corrupt fianna fail politicians to justice. Fianna Fail are about as in touch with modern society as Bill Gates would be with the Victorian period. The thought of them using the 1916 rising to their vantage is vomit inducing.

murphaph

hill16 wrote:

Murphaph wants Partition to stay but is quite willing to celebrate the use of force to achieve a 32 County Republic in 1916.

What fcuking post were you reading? Please show me where I said, or even implied that "I'd be quite wiling to celebrate the use of force to achieve a 32 County Republic in 1916". I said if we must celebrate this sort of stuff I'd prefer if it was the foundation of this state as a republic in 1949 as opposed to celebrating a failed rebellion.

black_jack

netwhizkid wrote:

Fianna Failure using republicanism as a tool of propaganda, tarnishing the name of our great hero's who fought for our independence.

And what is SF's hijacking of the event the?

What else will bertie the red and miss piggy throw from the hat. 10,000 Protestors in Killarney says it all. only 18mths to go before these corrupt, traitors are removed and i hope that the replacement government bans the Fianna Fail party and begin bringing those corrupt fianna fail politicians to justice.

So you're a fascist then?

Fianna Fail are about as in touch with modern society as Bill Gates would be with the Victorian period. The thought of them using the 1916 rising to their vantage is vomit inducing.

How exactly are they using it for their vantage? They're not making it a Fianna Fail rally, they're making it a natioanl rally.

Squaletto wrote:

Finally the Irish Government has woken up to the need of true Irishmen and Women to celebrate the destruction of Dublin and the killing of fellow Irishmen along with the poor British conscripts on the dreary streets of the then United Ireland in an effort to shake off the shackles of British Imperialism. Horray for the peacemaker Bertie. That said I do recall the fact that the Rebels were actually TERRORISTS if one were to go by the media reports of the day. How ironic, today a government well known for its mantra against criminality and terrorism, supporting a parade which celebrates terrorism!!!! Could only happen in Ireland!!!
I wonder if Mc DOOdawl will preside over the whole affair. Now that would be something to see given his outburst about Pearse being a convicted terrorist!!!

I'm a little unclear what the point of this rant is, time makes terrorists heroes, everyone from bomber harris, to washington et all could be seen as terrorists.

lazydaisy

Can someone please remind me - wasn't the 1916 rising a failure? And I read that the majority of the Irish population at the time didn't want independence because the nation couldn't afford it. Is that true?

I think it's great that Ireland is moveing toward a day of celebrating independence, but wouldn't it make more sense to pick a day when they actually achieved it?

Also - I'm surprised that the more catholic people don't object to this day of renewal and forgiveness being hijacked by a historical date commemorating the invasion of the post office. What - you go to mass with mam, then go to a military parade?

lostexpectation

I don't get this they were insurgents? as corrupt to the establishment as the IRA are seen today ridiculous


--

10,000 Protestors in Killarney says it all
?
whats this reffering to?

black_jack

lazydaisy wrote:

Can someone please remind me - wasn't the 1916 rising a failure? And I read that the majority of the Irish population at the time didn't want independence because the nation couldn't afford it. Is that true?

We declared ourselves a republican in 1949 on the date the rising occured

Flex

if it wasnt for the easter rising, sinn fein wouldnt have won the election after world war 1; if sinn fein didnt win the election there would have been no war of independence; if there was no war of independence, we may not today be living in a free nation. so it should be the nations independence day. to describe it as nothing more than a 'failed rebellion' or something is ridiculous. if it had never happened the ireland of today would be immensly different.

the reason most irish people opposed it at the time was because most irish families had relatives fighting in WW1 and britain claimed the rising was part of a german invasion plan of ireland and the rebels were collaborating with the germans. and also, most people had been led to believe home rule was the greatest amount of freedom ireland could ever hope for (and that this risng had greatly damaged the chances of home rule being granted)

Hagar

I learned my history before being patriotic became a dirty word.

I don't get my Irish history from the Sun, Star and Mirror. With or without the word "Irish" in front of them as a sop to the fools who buy English slanted rags.

I remember the Easter Parade for the 50th Anniversay in 1966. I was at it.

The Irish Army, our Government and our people honoured the men who fought to a standstill the greatest empire the world had ever seen. The Irish Army proudly claimed lineage from those great men who laid down their lives for our freedom. Old men who had fought marched with their heads high and we cheered and clapped and admired them. Nobody was ashamed. There was no thought in anyone's mind other than that we were watching heros pass us by.

The Irish goverment a few years later sold these men down the river in the name of political expediency. Judas took over running the country and is still at it today.

I am as much proud of those men as I am ashamed of our Government.

Diorraing

Flex wrote:

if it wasnt for the easter rising, sinn fein wouldnt have won the election after world war 1; if sinn fein didnt win the election there would have been no war of independence; if there was no war of independence, we may not today be living in a free nation. so it should be the nations independence day. to describe it as nothing more than a 'failed rebellion' or something is ridiculous. if it had never happened the ireland of today would be immensly different.

My sentiments exactly. These people who say it was nothing more than a "failed rebellion" are not looking at the broader pictuer, at how it set the wheels in motion for us to gain our full independence.

simu

Squaletto wrote:

Finally the Irish Government has woken up to the need of true Irishmen and Women to celebrate the destruction of Dublin and the killing of fellow Irishmen along with the poor British conscripts on the dreary streets of the then United Ireland in an effort to shake off the shackles of British Imperialism. Horray for the peacemaker Bertie. That said I do recall the fact that the Rebels were actually TERRORISTS if one were to go by the media reports of the day. How ironic, today a government well known for its mantra against criminality and terrorism, supporting a parade which celebrates terrorism!!!! Could only happen in Ireland!!!
I wonder if Mc DOOdawl will preside over the whole affair. Now that would be something to see given his outburst about Pearse being a convicted terrorist!!!

Autres temps, autres moeurs.

murphaph

Diorraing wrote:

My sentiments exactly. These people who say it was nothing more than a "failed rebellion" are not looking at the broader pictuer, at how it set the wheels in motion for us to gain our full independence.

But the failed rebellion in 1798 started things off too....I mean, you can try to claim that this or that would or would not have happened. The fact remains that this country came into being as a modern republic in 1949. The guys that fought and died in 1916 believed in their cause. I'm not in the slightest bit 'ashamed' of them, I was showing a friend of mine from Lyon around Kilmainham Gaol just a few weeks ago, but I can't help but feel that at the time, I may not have supported their actions especially if I had relatives off fighting the war. Why don't we commemorate 1798 if we're to commemorate 1916?

That's why I think if we must celebrate a national day other than St. Patrick's day it should be the 1949 coming of the republic.

Diorraing

murphaph wrote:

Why don't we commemorate 1798 if we're to commemorate 1916?

You've just exposed how little you know about anything to do with Irish republicanism. Every year the Taoiseach gives a speech at the grave of Wolfe Tone in Bodenstown. Do you not remember the celebrations in 1998 of the 1798 rebellion? Of course there were people like yourself who complained about that aswell.
You keep talking about 1949 as being the great year because a republic was declared. Do you not understand that there would have been no republic then if there was no freestate. There would be no freestate without the war of Independance. There would have been no war of independance without the 1916 rising. So go ahead and celebrate your 1949 declaration (by yourself most likely) but either way you'll be celebrating the sacrifice made by the volunteers of 1916. Might aswell do it directly than indirectly

murphaph

Why don't we celebrate 1641 then? Ah I'll 'celebrate' nothin to be honest. Nationalism can be ugly at the best of times.

Anybody who thinks this plan is anything other than FF wanting to reclaim the republican mantle from SF is pretty naive IMO.

Maskhadov

Personally I am overcome with national pride. We were robbed of our national idenity for decades because of the northern ireland "troubles".

For the first time in years we can express our national pride on the major Boulevard of our capital city like other European nations do. We have a proud history and Im delighted that for once we can express it without pandering to people outside the state.

I hope the military parade is done properly and covers all our military forces. The french bastile day is simply fantastic.

A Dub in Glasgo

I knew people would be confused by this

The idea of celebrating the Rising of 1916 by remembering the day when part of Ireland declared a Republic is laughable and shows an ignorance of what 1916 was about.

Hagar

There was a series broadcast by RTE during Easter week in 1966. It was called "Insurrection". Eoin O'Suillibhain played Padraig Pearse, I can't remember any of the other actors. It was along the lines of an embedded news team with the Insurrgents and gave a daily news bulletin with "film" of the fighting. It was very realistic. The format was years ahead of its time. The ordinariness and humanity of the people involved came through very well.

I have never seen or heard of it since. It has probably been hidden by the puppets in RTE. Although it was in B&W I would really love to see it broadcast again if anybody had the balls to do it.

lostexpectation

why does it have to a _military_ parade, surely resistence at the time wasn't confined to military means?

Victor

Yes lets celebrate democracy by promoting militarism.

murphaph wrote:

It was a failed r[e]bellion after all, just like the ones before it.

By definition, uprisings and rebellions are unsuccessful, revolutions are successful.

black_jack wrote:

So you're a fascist then?

No, that would be the people promoting the military parade.

For the first time in years we can express our national pride on the major Boulevard of our capital city like other European nations do.

You mean they'll build a boulevard for this? Will they cancel the trams though?

You keep talking about 1949 as being the great year because a republic was declared. Do you not understand that there would have been no republic then if there was no freestate. There would be no freestate without the war of Independance. There would have been no war of independance without the 1916 rising.

No 1916 without British Empire, should we thank Strongbow or Cromwell?

Diorraing

Victor wrote:

No 1916 without British Empire, should we thank Strongbow or Cromwell?

Your logic is exteremly weak.

lazydaisy

People hold onto 1916 because it's iconic and holds symbolic power, not because it makes any sense.

It doesn't make any sense to commemorate a failed military coup on a day which coincides with a Catholic holiday which times itself on a pagan fertility festival tied to the cycles of the moon.{Easter}

Most former colonies {USA & France for example} commemorate the day they secured freedom, not the day they started the War.

If the commemoration marked the official 1949 date wouldn't that be a good start to severing nationalism from religion?

mcgarnicle

lazydaisy wrote:

People hold onto 1916 because it's iconic and holds symbolic power, not because it makes any sense.

It doesn't make any sense to commemorate a failed military coup on a day which coincides with a Catholic holiday which times itself on a pagan fertility festival tied to the cycles of the moon.{Easter}

Most former colonies {USA & France for example} commemorate the day they secured freedom, not the day they started the War.

If the commemoration marked the official 1949 date wouldn't that be a good start to severing nationalism from religion?

That is totally wrong, the 4th of July in America marks the declaration of independence in 1776, US Independence was not achieved until 1783. Bastille Day in France marks the storming of the Bastille which represents the beginning of the French Revolution.
By citing these two examples you have just proved why we are totally justified in celebrating the 1916 Rising.

Hobbes

Cork wrote:

They was a danger itwould as a vehicle for justification for terrorism, carnage and propaganda.

No fear of that happening now eh. :rolleyes:

lazydaisy

I stand corrected. But I will point out that the date of American Independence is up for interpretation as it is said they overthrew the existing government before 1776. I think the date you cite 1783 is the year the first presidential election was held.

I should also correct myself and say I didn't mean to imply France was a former colony. I must have been half asleep.

It's still strange to me that Irish independence/revolution is beholden to Easter as the date will change every year.

Hagar

Pesonally I have no objection to it being held on 24th April but as a national event it is better suited to a Bank Holiday weekend. Anyway it has always been referred to a the Easter Rising. What's so terrible about that? More anti-religious paranoia I think.

OT I think St Patrick's Day should be celebrated on the Monday nearest the 17th March and make a decent holiday event of it. This closing down the country on a Wednesday or whatever is just mad.

Maskhadov

boul·e·vard Audio pronunciation of "boulevard" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (bl-värd, bl-)
n.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=boulevard

1. A broad city street, often tree-lined and landscaped.

I hope it done properly. The army were consulted by B.Ahern before he made the press announcement. Im sure they can fit in the 600 odd soldiers ok but the vehicles will have to go in single file as opposed to the 2 a breast like they used to.

This will make SF's look like a bunch of clowns.

mcgarnicle

lazydaisy wrote:

I stand corrected. But I will point out that the date of American Independence is up for interpretation as it is said they overthrew the existing government before 1776. I think the date you cite 1783 is the year the first presidential election was held.

I should also correct myself and say I didn't mean to imply France was a former colony. I must have been half asleep.

It's still strange to me that Irish independence/revolution is beholden to Easter as the date will change every year.

Well like I said the date doesn't mark American independence it marks the declaration of independence, just like the Irish declaration of independence was read out during the rising. 1783 is the year the War of Independence ended with the signing of the Treaty of Paris.

Orizio

Hagar wrote:

How could it have been hijacked by SF/IRA it was their Rising FFS.

At the time they were the only Irish Army.

We should always have remembered it. It was a glorious deed. It was not a thing to hide and be ashamed of.

Glorious?Since when is war glorious?

It was a brave but moronic act,and those that led the young men out on that day were aware that they would lose men and lose the battle.They were tactically incompetent in the extreme and it was more an act of mass self sacrifice then that of an responsible and pragmatic rising.If it wasn't for the British reaction from Maxwell the day would have went as a catastrophe,and the names of Pearse etc would have been cursed rightly for there irresponsibility and fanaticism.

Never think that war, no matter how necessary, nor how justified, is not a crime.~Ernest Hemingway.

Anyone who has ever looked into the glazed eyes of a soldier dying on the battlefield will think hard before starting a war.~Otto Von Bismark.

murphaph

mcgarnicle wrote:

Well like I said the date doesn't mark American independence it marks the declaration of independence, just like the Irish declaration of independence was read out during the rising.

Yeah, but the americans actually achieved their declared aims. The proclamation of the republic declared the 32 county republic and correct me if I'm mistaken, but isn't the northeast part of a constitutional monarchy?

mcgarnicle

murphaph wrote:

Yeah, but the americans actually achieved their declared aims. The proclamation of the republic declared the 32 county republic and correct me if I'm mistaken, but isn't the northeast part of a constitutional monarchy?

Yes it is but that's not the point is it. That is the date when independence was declared and that is why we celebrate it, the nation it will be celebrated in is a republic. If you want to get all technical about it you could say that only the states that were under British rule in 1776 should celebrate American indepence day or that the French shouldn't really celebrate Bastille day as the new republic only lasted a few years before a monarch once again took control of the country. The Easter Rising may not have technically been a success but to most Irish people who are actually moved by this issue it is the symbolic beginning of the War of Indepence and while many here would argue that Ireland becoming a republic is what should be celebrated the country was a de facto republic long before it officially became such. The most obvious proof of this is our neutrality in WW2.