DTT 'many years away'

Round Cable

There was an interesting report of RTÉ News last night about the state of digital TV in the country.

Some highlights:

-2/3 of household rely on Analogue Terrestrial TV (ATT)
-DTT is many years away for most of these people.
-A Pilot Transmission will begin in early 2006, in Louth and Dublin, as previously reported.
-The Chair of ComReg says it will be a testing ground, and 'viewers will get a taste of what the service would be like'
-The EU wants all member states to turn off Analogue by 2012.
-Ireland hasn't picked a date. :rolleyes:
-A FF TD complains that cable and satellite are the only ways to recieve digital and can cost €400+ per year. And we're being ripped off.
-RTÉ welcomes the advent of digital TV, as it would enhance it's public service roll, and would develop new channels.
-They talk about City Channel.

About the 2006 date, we'll see how many times has it been said before? FF TD complains, put money into it and get it up and running, God you'd swear he was the opposition or something, and RTÉ :rolleyes:

Freddie59

Round Cable wrote:

There was an interesting report of RTÉ News last night about the state of digital TV in the country.

Some highlights:

Round Cable wrote:

-2/3 of household rely on Analogue Terrestrial TV (ATT) :

If there are 1 million households in the Country and 300,000 suscribe to Sky Digital, with another 120,000 subscribing to NTL digital, and maybe another 50,000 subscribing to Chorus digital, that, by my estimation, is 50% - not 2/3rds??!!:eek:

Round Cable wrote:

-The EU wants all member states to turn off Analogue by 2012.
-Ireland hasn't picked a date. :rolleyes:

And probably won't! In fairness - what would you do?:)

Round Cable wrote:

-A FF TD complains that cable and satellite are the only ways to recieve digital and can cost €400+ per year. And we're being ripped off.

That's rich coming from Fianna Fail! (and I normally vote FF). I think the combined analogue/Digital base packs from NTL come in at just over €6 per week........roughly the price of 20 fags which the Government have taxed to death, along with food, housing, etc. And that eejit has the gall to concentrate on TV. God grant me patience! He wasn't asking for free fags, drink, lower road tax and insurance along with the free TV was he? I didn't think so!:mad:

Round Cable wrote:

-RTÉ welcomes the advent of digital TV, as it would enhance it's public service roll, and would develop new channels.
-They talk about City Channel.

Of course they welcome it. Another opportunity to squander millions of €s of taxpayers money. Just like the did with the hundreds of millions they squandered from the sale of Cable Link. With all the tribunals going on, why isn't one iinverstigating why it takes probably three times the amount of people needed to run RTE to actually do it?


This bloody country........:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Mossy Monk

Freddie59 wrote:

Round Cable wrote:

I think the combined analogue/Digital base packs from NTL come in at just over €6 per week

he is correct. why pay extra to watch what you have already paid for just to see it on a digital platform

Foggy43

I have a question need answering.
What band will DTTV in Ireland be broadcast on? Band 111, UHF or both. I am aware RTE's initial plan was no external aerials would be required to recieve DTTV. All multiplexers were going to be on UHF.

I'm sure it will be on UHF as most homes have UHF aerials now since TV3 and TnaG. Comreg seem to be suggesting Band 111.

You will probably have digital tv on your mobile phones and DTTV will still be years away!
There is a little problem with the law here in the UK. You do not need a TV licence to watch TV on your mobile!

DMC

For the trial in Louth and Dublin, its certainly going to be UHF, as Clermont Carn and Three Rock are UHF transmitters.

Ulsterman 1690

Using Band 3 would be silly since DAB will need band 3

Of course that doesnt mean they wont use band 3 :rolleyes:

Foggy43

There isn't going to be DAB in the South of Ireland. (A reading from the gospel according to Comreg)
So if DTTV was UHF in the South that would be doing Ulster a favour freeing up Band 111, and creating space for more multiplexers.

Do a favour :rolleyes: Ok! It will be Band 111 then


OK! Let's be serious for a second. The cheifs at Comreg! Are they goverment appointed?

byte

Molly Dawson wrote:

OK! Let's be serious for a second. The cheifs at Comreg! Are they goverment appointed?

I think they just won a competition on the back of a cereal box or something!

Seriously though, yeah, they're pretty poor at everything they regulate.

bk

In fairness though it is a good idea NOT to go with DAB for Digital Radio, DAB is an old and outdated technology that is very inefficient and only offers sound quality much worse then FM. Most other countries are considering scrapping it in favour of newer technologies.

At the very least we should be using DMB.

A better alternative would be DRM.

The ideal would seem to use DVB-H for both portable TV and radio.

bk

Round Cable wrote:

-2/3 of household rely on Analogue Terrestrial TV (ATT)

While 2/3 of households may use ATT for secondary TV's, by my estimates roughly 2/3 of households have some form of multichannel service (NTL + Chorus = 500,000, Sky Dig = 300,000).

Round Cable wrote:

-A FF TD complains that cable and satellite are the only ways to recieve digital and can cost €400+ per year. And we're being ripped off.

This is a fair point, in the UK you can get over 30 of the most popular channels on Freeview for free. Freeview has quickly become the second most popular digital platform in the UK, overtaking cable and is expected to overtake Sky by 2007.

Because of this NTL and Sky have had to become more competitive, offering extra value services such as:

- NTL Analogue has 30 basic channels versus 17 in Ireland
- NTL offers 50 channel Digital TV for just €8 per month, 100 channel for €16 and 160 channel for €30, In ireland you can only get the top package, NTL was forced to introduce the other packages by Freeview.
- NTL also offers interactive services and Video on Demand
- NTL offers the triple play of Video, Broadband and voice.
- Sky offers Sky+ DVR, sports and soon HD.

The only reason why any of these are offered is because they are both coming under pressure from Freeview, we have much less options from NTL:Ireland because there is less competition.

Round Cable wrote:

-RTÉ welcomes the advent of digital TV, as it would enhance it's public service roll, and would develop new channels.

About the 2006 date, we'll see how many times has it been said before? FF TD complains, put money into it and get it up and running, God you'd swear he was the opposition or something, and RTÉ :rolleyes:

I don't believe the problem has ever been technical nor cost, RTE has had the gear for a long time and has done some simple tests.

From what I have heard the problem seems to be with EU laws on government contracts. The government is supposed to open it up to tender, however no one but RTE seems to be interested. That is what seems to be holding it up.

I see a major problem with DTT in Ireland. The talk is that DTT will only have about 10, Irish made channels, it won't likely have any of the UK channels. It will be much harder to convince people to get DTT with just 10 Irish channels and it certainly won't be of any extra competition to NTL or Sky, so we will continue to be ripped off.

The ideal would be for us to also get the main UK channels on DTT, even as a subscription service, that would put more pressure on NTL, but it isn't likley to happen

And if it doesn't happen for DTT, then it isn't likely to happen for DVB-H for portable TV either and it will therefore also make portable TV far less interesting.

byrnefm

Round Cable wrote:

-A Pilot Transmission will begin in early 2006, in Louth and Dublin, as previously reported.

Funny they should say that, as I thought the plan was to start a trial in the second half of 2005, ie. by now? I don't know where I saw the original article, though.

Oh well, at least the STB are relatively cheap now, since they're popular enough in the UK! Assuming we use the same kind of box, of course :rolleyes:

Ulsterman 1690

If there are 1 million households in the Country
and 300,000 suscribe to Sky Digital,
with another 120,000 subscribing to NTL digital,
and maybe another 50,000 subscribing to Chorus digital,
that, by my estimation, is 50% - not 2/3rds??!!

1) Can you give sources for these figures or did you just pluck them from thin air
2) Subscribing to NTL or Chorus is not the same as subscribing to NTL or Chorus digital
3) Many households with digital still rely on analouge for Video timeshifting, bedroom TV's etc

As for DAB many countries apart from the UK are using Eureka 147 either on Band 3 or L Band (1.5 GHz) granted there is a case for revising the Eureka 147 standard to allow for better codecs and once all the Band 3 TV transmissions are shut down there wil be plenty of room for new DAB services in both Northern Ireland and the Republic (not to mention the UK mainland)

I thought this (daft) proposal for 10 Irish channels had been shelved long ago I mean their schedules are already full of "repeats of repeats" of gawdawful programming without having gawddamn "RTE mix" or "TV3+1" Surely countries with a small population base like Ireland should concentrate on programming one or two channels well rather than eight or ten badly.

bk

Ulsterman 1690 wrote:

1) Can you give sources for these figures or did you just pluck them from thin air

NTL = 353,600 total including 109,600 digital
http://www.enn.ie/frontpage/news-9630232.html

Chorus = 319,000 according to Wikipedia, no figures for digital:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chorus_Communications

Sky Digital = 343,600
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2095-1471601,00.html
(I've seen more recent figures that indicate about 355,000 customers now).

Also don't forget digital freesat and people by the border who can get Freeview and a couple thousand on IPTV.

There is easily over 50% of homes with Digital, probably about 60 - 65% now.

Ulsterman 1690 wrote:

2) Subscribing to NTL or Chorus is not the same as subscribing to NTL or Chorus digital

If you are with Chorus, you might as well get Digital, it is only a few euro more expensive.

Ulsterman 1690 wrote:

3) Many households with digital still rely on analouge for Video timeshifting, bedroom TV's etc

Only in NTL cable areas, Chorus Analogue and MMDS are encrypted, so you need to get extra boxes/subscription for each TV But it is a fair point.

Ulsterman 1690 wrote:

As for DAB many countries apart from the UK are using Eureka 147 either on Band 3 or L Band (1.5 GHz) granted there is a case for revising the Eureka 147 standard to allow for better codecs and once all the Band 3 TV transmissions are shut down there wil be plenty of room for new DAB services in both Northern Ireland and the Republic (not to mention the UK mainland)

Why bother when there are better, more efficient standards like DVB-H and even DMB which will allow for portable, mobile TV as well as higher sound quality radio then DAB.

France is actually palnning to shut down DAB and replace it with DVB-H.

Ulsterman 1690 wrote:

I thought this (daft) proposal for 10 Irish channels had been shelved long ago I mean their schedules are already full of "repeats of repeats" of gawdawful programming without having gawddamn "RTE mix" or "TV3+1" Surely countries with a small population base like Ireland should concentrate on programming one or two channels well rather than eight or ten badly.

I agree, my fantasy is that they just put the curent channels on DTT and add the top 20 UK channels. But unfortunately that won't happen. Stupid Irish regulators.

bk

Actually it seems Wikipedia is worng (there is a surprise).

Chorus cable passes 317,300, but they only have 112,900 basic cable subscribers and 89,000 MMDS subscribers.
http://www.lgi.com/ireland.html

This is more like it, I thought the Chorus figures were too high. Those 200,000 other people probably have Sky, because Chorus is crap.

Ulsterman 1690

If you are with Chorus, you might as well get Digital, it is only a few euro more expensive.

Yes but how many people actually do and in any case is it available to ALL Chorus subscribers ?

On another note and despite what I said earlier putting on more Irish channels It mightnt be a bad idea for TG4 to have a second channel

In English of course

Freddie59

Ulsterman 1690 wrote:

1) Can you give sources for these figures or did you just pluck them from thin air

No - Ulsterman. They are available from both company's yearly results, which they are obliged to publish to satisfy:

a) The shareholders and
b) ComReg.

That answer your question or are you really unable to believe that an Irish Company can be successful? You hardly begrudge it to them do you? Or would you prefer a Sky monopoly?:)

Freddie59

Ulsterman 1690 wrote:

It mightnt be a bad idea for TG4 to have a second channel In English of course

Here we go again. Teilifis na Gaeilge (TnaG or TG4 as they now prefer) was set up, and HIGHLY subsidised by the Government to promote the Irish language as an Irish language channel. A very good ideal IMO, as I would be a fan of the language, though not fluent in it.

Instead what do we have? - a mish-mash of imported, English language shows, with the two main protagonist, RTE 1 & 2 still showing Irish language programmes. A second channel - NOT ON YOUR LIFE. There are people going on in this thread about the cablecos, rip-offs, etc. RTE itself is the biggest rip-off being perpetrated on the Irish public.

€155 (or so) a year for two miserable TV channels, dodgy radio stations, all of which are allowed advertising AS WELL!! It's onll in Ireland you'd see it.:mad: :mad: :mad:

watty

bk wrote:

In fairness though it is a good idea NOT to go with DAB for Digital Radio, DAB is an old and outdated technology that is very inefficient and only offers sound quality much worse then FM. Most other countries are considering scrapping it in favour of newer technologies.

At the very least we should be using DMB.

A better alternative would be DRM.

The ideal would seem to use DVB-H for both portable TV and radio.

Rubbish.

DAB is fine. The problem in UK is too many channels per multiplex = lower bitrate. German DAB is fine.

DAB, DVBt/DTT, DVB-h, DVBs(satellite), DVBc (cable), Worldspace and DRM are all for different applications.

Ulsterman 1690

are you really unable to believe that an Irish Company can be successful? You hardly begrudge it to them do you?

Of course Irish companies (or even Canadian/British companies with most of their programming imported from the US and Australia !) can be succesful but its a simple fact of demographics and economics that if you have ten (or more) channels operating in a market of just over four million the result is bound to be cheap and almost inevitably poor quality programming

Or would you prefer a Sky monopoly?

No but if the alternative is an monopoly of someone like Independent news and media (Tony O Rielly) then its pretty much a case of six of one and half a dozen of the other

Instead what do we have? - a mish-mash of imported, English language shows,...... A second channel - NOT ON YOUR LIFE

Yes but if they has a second channel they could put their English language programmes (which are way ahead of anyting RTE or TV3 have to offer) on one of them and the Gaelic programmes on the other

€155 (or so) a year for two miserable TV channels, dodgy radio stations, all of which are allowed advertising AS WELL!!......

Amen to that

Elmo

This is what gets me about ICDG should I post in Broadcasting or in Terrestrial.

http://www.rte.ie/about/rtedigital_english.pdf

If your interested.

DMC

LOL.

If the topic is platform neutral, then its home is Broadcasting. Otherwise, if it is platform specific, then post in the relevant area.

Ulsterman 1690

Interesting link Elmo

Digital television services are currently only available in Ireland as
Pay TV

WTF ? I know people in Ireland who have access to over a THOUSAND digital television services and they dont pay a penny* :rolleyes:

*Apart from the €155 per year protection racket operated by a broadcasting organisation which they can only recieve in analouge

Satellite coverage is potentially 99%+ of the landmass, but there is currently no free-to-air satellite offering for Irish citizens.

There are PLENTY of FTA satellite offerings for Irish Citizens just no *Irish citizens offering it

* = Bar Irish citizens working for TV stations abroad perhaps ?

Legislative and regulatory changes will be required.

So what law exactly is preventing RTE (or the BCI) offering digital services now ?

Richard

Ulsterman 1690 wrote:

Yes but if they has a second channel they could put their English language programmes (which are way ahead of anyting RTE or TV3 have to offer) on one of them and the Gaelic programmes on the other

Surely there are two reasons for having English language programmes on TG4

1. It is cheap "filler" programming
2. It would entice people to watch the channel who then stay for their Irish content.

Mind you, I wouldn't have minded an English version when they had the "Snucar" on from Belfast!

Ulsterman 1690

The NICAM digital sound system (and presumably the DVB standard) has provision for dual language audio streams.

Although I dont think any broadcasters in Ireland or the UK have ever thought of using it :rolleyes:

Elmo

1. It is cheap "filler" programming

This must be why TV3 and RTE TWO use so much of it.

Of course by english lanuage you mean their Foreign Aquisitions.

Why do all Irish Broadcasters show On The Limit Sport?

So what law exactly is preventing RTE (or the BCI) offering digital services now ?

Emmm the Government like to legislated (sp?).

I mean the will have to set up a statutory body to look after the role out of Digital TV.
And that just the first company they will have to set up.

[edit] I know I am being sarcastic but its so true [/edit]

Freddie59

Ulsterman 1690 wrote:

Of course Irish companies (or even Canadian/British companies with most of their programming imported from the US and Australia !) can be succesful but its a simple fact of demographics and economics that if you have ten (or more) channels operating in a market of just over four million the result is bound to be cheap and almost inevitably poor quality programming

Well, BBC and ITV managed to broadcast four very successful channels to an even bigger audience of 50 million for the last 50 years or more.:)

Ulsterman 1690 wrote:

No but if the alternative is an monopoly of someone like Independent news and media (Tony O Rielly) then its pretty much a case of six of one and half a dozen of the other

I presume you're talking about Chorus. They're no longer owned by Tony O'Reilly.:)

Ulsterman 1690 wrote:

Yes but if they has a second channel they could put their English language programmes (which are way ahead of anyting RTE or TV3 have to offer) on one of them and the Gaelic programmes on the other

AGAIN - UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES! This channel was set up to promote the Irish (not Gaelic, which is spoken in Scotland) and should remember it's raison d'etre.:)

Amen to that[/QUOTE]

Agreed.

Telefís

The figures being bandied about here for multichannel and/or digital househoulds are fundamentally flawed.

Ireland has not had 1 million households for at least a decade. We have over 1.4 million television households on this island of ours.
Coupled with the dodgy Chorus figures and the overlapping of analogue and digital numbers, a completely false representation is being generated.

At least two thirds of Irish households do not have digital television services.
And the notion of many households only using analogue for secondary sets is equally dubious. Just under half of all households don't even have a second set, let alone a third or fourth!

I think we're getting ahead of ourselves here regarding the potential failure of a digital launch in Ireland. Whereas yes it is frustrating to see the market being voraciously eaten up by $ky, there is still a substantial majority who are desperate to sign up to an Irish digital service.

Of course what will make or break the system as has been said is the provision of UK channels.
Indeed you'd wonder about currently cabled areas - if the UK services of the BBC, ITV and Ch4 manage to get on the system for free (quite likely with the latter two anyway), what of the traditional NTL cable services?
Who's going to pay them €20+ a month when they can mount an aerial on their roof for the Irish service which includes the same channels?
Would the entire capital not switch over in the morning?!

Round Cable

Dispite what people say, an Irish freeview would be a huge sucess, the British can get a FTV card to watch their terrestrials, the Irish have no such luxuary when it comes to DSat, so freeview would be the only free way to receive the Irish channels in digital/widescreen. Big Sucess, if the government pull their finger out.

bk

Round Cable wrote:

Dispite what people say, an Irish freeview would be a huge sucess, the British can get a FTV card to watch their terrestrials, the Irish have no such luxuary when it comes to DSat, so freeview would be the only free way to receive the Irish channels in digital/widescreen. Big Sucess, if the government pull their finger out.

I disagree, if Freeview has only the Irish channels then it won't be a success, if it has some UK channels also then it will be a success.

According to a recent report by RTE 70% of homes can get UK TV and about 37% of homes can get digital (and quickly rising).

If only the Irish channels are on DTT (plus one or tow extra like Setanta) then the only selling point would be better digital picture and sound quality. Yet the people who care about that sort of thing, the people with big screen TV's setc, more then likely already have and can afford NTL or Sky, so they won't care about DTT.

Yet your granny with a 15 year old 20" TV couldn't care less about picture quality and therefore DTT without the UK channels isn't going to be of any interest to her. She isn't going to pay the €70 for a DTT box, why would she?

Now if the UK channels were also on DTT, now she might be interested in it, as might Sky people who want a second/third TV.

Interestingly the 2001 Broadcasting act specifically legislates for RTE to get 1 mux, TV3 and TG4 to get a half mux each and for BBC and UTV to get a mux!!! If any of these decide not to take their mux or if there is any space left, then it can be used for pay TV!! Now this might change, but at least it shows clear thinking by the government.

As for Telefís question about NTL and DTT, you are right, NTL:UK is being eaten alive by Freeview, which has now surpassed cable as the 2nd most popular DigiTV platform (Sky is 1st) and Freeview is expected to pass Sky by 2008. However NTL is not out, it is starting to compete by moving towards value added services which people are willing to pay for, such as a PVR, VoD, HD and BB and phone services. With NTL and Telewest merging they will likely have the muscle to bid against Sky for the rights to premiership soccer, etc. Which would attract people to cable.

Eventuallly NTL:UK and Sky will probably be forced to give the basic channels for free and charge a reasonable amount for extra services.

That is why I'm hoping we will see a good DTT platform here in Ireland with the UK channels, then NTL:Ireland and Sky would have to do the same here, to the benefit of everyone.

Ulsterman 1690

Interestingly the 2001 Broadcasting act specifically legislates for RTE to get 1 mux, TV3 and TG4 to get a half mux each and for BBC and UTV to get a mux!!!

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZA4Y2001S9.html

Ummm I dont see anything about BBC or UTV been guranteed multiplexes ??

And I wouldnt be suprised if RTE TG4 and TV3 all end up sharing a single multiplex between them even if it necessitates an amendment to/repal of the 2001 act which (even by the standards of Irish broadcasting legislation) was rather badly drafted and thought out

watty

Unless any Irish DTT has all the FTA UK BBC/ITV (at least 10 slots of TV), then it is doomed.

Original DTT proposals in in Ireland were drafted when BBC & ITV was encrypted on DSAT. Now (by 1st Nov) they are not.

Also plenty of FTA specialist, news and music on FTA from 28.2E, never mind the 1500 channels TV and 1200 Radio you get FTA (no CAMs or dodgy cards) with a sub 300 Euro 80cm Dish motorised system.


Irish DTT is ten years late and now faces an insurmountabele task unless it is entirely free and has at least all the best FTA on Sky. This would need a lot of Government money.

There is a real possibility now that DTT will never happen, or a half hearted attempt will be made that collapses.

watty

Multiple TV with Satellite is not hard. I have 2 sky boxes (only one very basic sub), a FTA digital box and a PC sat card. All including the S-VHS drive the distributiona amp and there are 6 TV outlets.

A "sky eye" allows remote of one sky box.

The aerial is ch 1 ..4, the other boxes are 5 .. 9

A FTA Sat box is 80 Euro. A quad or Oct LNB can drive four or eight boxes from one dish.

DTT has a lot of catch up to do.

Our existing UHF network is very poor. Best in South Dublin where ironically Cable is highes penetration.

Poorest in West, North west and South west where cable is non existant.

Telefís

watty wrote:

...unless it is entirely free and has at least all the best FTA on Sky. This would need a lot of Government money.

What does this mean? (if you'll excuse the ignorance). The State shelling out for UK channel contracts on a yearly basis?!

How does the UK channel system in Ireland work at the moment via the cable system? Do NTL & co literally fork out millions to the BBC, ITV and Ch4 etc every year? How does this work with the UK licence fee - do the BBC not 'mind' their output being pumped around Ireland for a presumably meagre fee from the distribution companies here?

bk

Ulsterman 1690 wrote:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZA4Y2001S9.html

Ummm I dont see anything about BBC or UTV been guranteed multiplexes ??

I got the info from here, it basically allows broadcasters in Northern Ireland (BBC NI and UTV) get a multiplex or a part of a multiplex:
http://myhome.iolfree.ie/~icdg/feature_act2001.htm

Digital Terrestrial Television is established. The Minister for Culture will appoint a private company to be the Commercial Multiplex Operator - the "public face" of DTT in Ireland. The bill guarentees space for RTE (1 mux), TV3 and TG4 (1/2 mux each). It also allows for space, at the request of the Minister, to be given to BBC Northern Ireland and UTV (1 mux). However it also provides that should any of these companies decline to take up their space, the Commerical Multiplex Operator can reclaim it for pay-TV services. A new Transmission Company, up to 72% privately owned, will be set up which will run the DTT, analogue television, Today FM, and ILR transmitter networks. Neither company is given exclusive priviges under the Act - leaving open the possiblity of more muxes (or deflector operators) being licenced after analogue switch-off.

The legal talk for it is:
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZA4Y2001S9.html

9-(6) The Director shall attach a condition to the digital multiplex licence requiring the multiplex company, where the Commission, in accordance with a direction given by the Minister under subsection (7) for the time being in force, requests it to do so, to use a multiplex or part of a multiplex solely for the purposes of programme material supplied to it under and in accordance with this Act by a person who provides a broadcasting service in Northern Ireland, being a broadcasting service that is receivable throughout the whole of Northern Ireland and which is provided by terrestrial means.

Of course this isn't to say that it the act won't be updated or that the Minister will actually ask BBC NI and UTV to do it or that they would be interested (UTV deffinitely would be, BB less certain).

Elmo

(UTV deffinitely would be, BB less certain).

But how happy would ITV be with that?

watty

watty wrote:

Our existing UHF network is very poor. Best in South Dublin where ironically Cable is highes penetration.

Poorest in West, North west and South west where cable is non existant.

Agreed. In Ballyfermot it's possible to receive the four terrestrial channels crystal clear from Three Rock with a coat hanger connected to a piece of co-ax! I know because I tried when I lived there, lol. A grainy picture comes in from Kippure even with nothing plugged into the TV's aerial socket.

This used to cause a problem for Cablelink around 1994/95. Two of the channels (Sky News and TCC) suffered co-channel interference from Kippure. It was corrected around 1996 when the network was upgraded with higher grade cable.

Here in Kerry it's impossible to receive anything without an aerial, and even with one, UHF is grainy and VHF is fine (except for some ghosting in my case).

Anyway, back on topic, I'm not sure we'll see DTT any time soon.

Ulsterman 1690

a broadcasting service that is receivable throughout the whole of Northern Ireland and which is provided by terrestrial means.

Ummm no such thing :rolleyes:

bk

Elmo wrote:

But how happy would ITV be with that?

Well given that it is already on cable and MMDS and has just gone FTA to everyone on digital satellite, I believe it has just become a moot point

Elmo

Well given that it is already on cable and MMDS and has just gone FTA to everyone on digital satellite, I believe it has just become a moot point

Is UTV FTA or is ITV 1 FTA?

I think ITV will continue to fight a battle to avoid UTV being in the Republic. Let face ITV view TV3 as their local station here.

Perhaps even buying Canwest out of TV3 to allow it go FTA on Sat in a few years time.

DMC

UTV is FTA, along with all ITV1 regions, ITV2 and ITV4 since yesterday.

Elmo

UTV is FTA, along with all ITV1 regions, ITV2 and ITV4 since yesterday.

ITV may look for TV3 to go FTA soon. Maybe?

bk

Elmo wrote:

ITV may look for TV3 to go FTA soon. Maybe?

One can hope, not that I care about TV3, however it would put more pressure on RTE to go FTA.

muincav

to hell with RTE and the government-everybody shoul have the wonderful FTA reciever from LIDL..with all the ITV and BBC channels why would anyone want that excuse for a public broadcaster that is RTE????::)

Elmo

why would anyone want that excuse for a public broadcaster that is RTE????:

Because of all the really really good PSB's in continantal europe some of whom are also FTA. :rolleyes:

Telefís

Why isn't RTÉ FTA in the Republic now? There would seem to be no reason to prevent it being so now what with the increasing prevalence of FTA set-top boxes. It is ludicrous, unfair and grossly discordant with the principles of public service broadcasting that RTÉ's widescreen services are only available to those who subscribe to a private company, to the detriment of the average viewer's image quality on terrestrial. The sooner this is remedied the better.

Perhaps in the context of establishing a terrestrial-based service it would be unwise to put RTÉ FTA though - as bizarre as it may be, it is preferable to have as many people not having satellite as possible to ensure a good start-up of a national digital service.....though not when one thinks of the probable five years before a regular service is established :rolleyes:

Why do we even need a trial anyway? Why not just launch straight into a national terrestrial roll-out? Surely there aren't that many elements to be ironed out or that cannot be predicted before the system can be set up permanently? Practically, what is to be gained by carrying out a digital terrestrial trial in the most wealthy, most densely populated, most multi-channel saturated part of the country?

Surely if there is anywhere that problems just might arise, and anywhere that the take-up of digital services would be most interesting to observe, would be in rural areas?!!

Elmo

The Irish Channels are FTA, you know Rabbit Ears

Telefís

Oy! - ya cheeky fecker . Digitally.

byte

Elmo wrote:

The Irish Channels are FTA, you know Rabbit Ears

In fairness, rabbit's ears aren't a viable solution for many people.

Elmo

Oy! - ya cheeky fecker . Digitally.

True but this thread is called DTT "many years away".

In fairness, rabbit's ears aren't a viable solution for many people.

True.

David Robinson

I just don't understand why you guys are so keen to have DTT. When there's an existing satellite service with near 100% coverage, why spend a fortune duplicating it? All that is needed is for the satellite service to be either FTA, or dual encrypted (receiveable on a Sky box and on other boxes via a different smartcard) so there is no suggestion of a Sky monopoly.

Here in the UK the BBC have already spent huge amounts of my licence fee duplicating the perfectly adequate satellite service on the far less reliable and overcrowded DTT. By the time they have upgraded 1000+ transmitters the cost will surely be horrendous. What I would really like to know, is the cost per household, post switchover, of providing DTT coverage versus satellite.

I know satellite and cable don't support portable receivers, but how many people actually use true portables? Even if you do, there are those transmitter units that radiate TV legally around the house.

Then there is the question of HD. The timetable for switchover is such that just as the last refuseniks have reluctantly kitted themselves out for DTT, they will find that their hardware is already obsolescent as HDTV rollout from the BBC starts.

In Ireland you could learn from our mistakes and skip DTT altogether.

bk

David Robinson wrote:

I just don't understand why you guys are so keen to have DTT.

.......

In Ireland you could learn from our mistakes and skip DTT altogether.

1) Satellite doesn't reach 100%, it is about 98%, mountains and large buildings can cause shadows that block it's reception.

By having FTA satellite and DTT, you should be able to reach 100%, that is what the BBC and ITV are doing with Freeview and FTA in the UK.

2) People who live in apartments or rented accomadation and even in new houses in some new estates (however it may not be legally binging), in other words most of Dublin city, can't put up a satellite. It is either non free cable or DTT.

3) €200 - €300 is too expensive for many people, even the €75 for a DTT receiver might be too expensive for many people (on social welfare) and the boxes will need to be financed by the government.

4) Portable TV and radio don't work well from satellite.

5) No need for ugly dishes.

6) Analogue TV in Ireland will have to be switched off due to interference from DTT in the UK by 2012.

7) The success of Freeview has also put a lot of pressure on Sky and NTL who have responded by dropping prices or improving service offered (such as BB) and this is going to increase.

People hope that DTT in Ireland will have the same effect.

Freeview has been a big success in the UK, it has now surpassed cable as the second most popular platform for digital TV and it is expected to surpass satellite in the next year. So obviously people like it in the UK.

However I will say it again, unless the Irish DTT includes the UK channels, then it isn't going to be a success.