Banning Suggestion

Draupnir

Im sure a few die hards will go on about how "busy" they are but heres my suggestion.

Shouldnt it be a rule of the moderation process, that the moderator PM the user when banning them, informing them of the offence and also the length of the ban.

Upshots:

1. User knows the score and has no need to send PM asking, which will inevitably start a moan.

2. User cant come to Feedback and start a thread saying "why was I banned"

3. Mods will seem more like decent folk rather than taking this "I dont have to tell you why I banned you" approach.

Downsides:

A. Some mods may consider this to "take to much time". My response would be, get outta the modding game if you dont have five seconds to type a stock PM. Dont worry, you wont be inadequate if you arent a boards moderator anymore.

B. PM traffic will increase slightly.

Thoughts?

The Sweeper

My thoughts are that people bitch whether you PM them or not.

[Jackass]

AFAIK to PM them is standard practice anyway....

Funny how the first two upshots always happen anyway. :rolleyes:

But yes, they do take the time, and no, none of the above advantages occur.

therecklessone

Draupnir wrote:

Im sure a few die hards will go on about how "busy" they are but heres my suggestion.

Shouldnt it be a rule of the moderation process, that the moderator PM the user when banning them, informing them of the offence and also the length of the ban.


Thoughts?

I've said it elsewhere, so yes I think its a good idea.

Draupnir

I got banned last week from PI and Beruthiel PM'd me, which I must admit, I appreciated and so, our dealings where amicable and satisfactory.

I have been banned from various places in the past and not had such kind treatment which has left me a bit peeved and with the general notion that the mod in question was a bit of a fecker.

I dont see the harm in trying to extend a little bit more civility to people.

The Troll

The female of the species thankfully do not spit, being far too occupied with being pregnant. Someone ought to tell them that its a womb, not a clown car.

Haha

CuLT

Hmm, I already do this

Stock PM with reason for ban, link to the rules (available to read even if banned from the forum, see my sig), length of the ban, and to PM me when the ban time is up to have access reinstated.

I get quite an amount of messages as a result of this, I actually need the 3000 message limit that being a subscriber provides. I also get a torrent of abuse regularily, but a good percentage of users are level headed and understand the reasons they were banned after reading the rules, I haven't had to ban someone twice yet (though people have been permanently banned from For Sales and then the entire site for entirely unreasonable,arrogant or ignorant replies to me, be warned).

In the end, though it does take more time, I reckon the overall benefits are worth the extra hassle. For Sales has become a lot less troublesome once

a) people are personally informed when banned, and
b) occasionally posting a message on the thread in question that people were banned or posts were deleted. Keeps everyone on their toes.

amp

I don't pm banned users. I usually just stick a note in the thread. It's not that I don't have the time. It's simply that if you're stupid enough to get banned then part of the punishment is to be confused about why you cannot access the forum (or catagory) and then asking yourself what you did that might have caused the banning. I also find that this helps prevent people from re-offending.

As a moderator I have no wish to be seen as a decent person. The more idiots that complain about me and see me as evil the better.

I also find it odd that usually the first thing a banned person asks is "who banned teh me?" as if that's relevant in any way.

therecklessone

amp wrote:

I also find it odd that usually the first thing a banned person asks is "who banned teh me?" as if that's relevant in any way.

Sort of is dahling...

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=3242341&postcount=20

Gordon wrote:

Feedback is not to be used for asking to be unbanned from a forum that you have been banned from.

Your first step in being unbanned from a forum is to PM the mod that banned you.

IMO, visiting boards should be a civil and pleasant experience. If making the banning process a little bit clearer (and it ain't just the idiots who have to respect teh authoritah!) means less complaints overall, and helps n00bs learn from their mistakes then thats gotta be a good thing, right?

koneko

I PM banned users and let them know for how long, and to PM me when it's up as it's not automated, but I deal with very very few bans really.

Draupnir

amp wrote:

I don't pm banned users. I usually just stick a note in the thread. It's not that I don't have the time. It's simply that if you're stupid enough to get banned then part of the punishment is to be confused about why you cannot access the forum (or catagory) and then asking yourself what you did that might have caused the banning. I also find that this helps prevent people from re-offending.

As a moderator I have no wish to be seen as a decent person. The more idiots that complain about me and see me as evil the better.

I also find it odd that usually the first thing a banned person asks is "who banned teh me?" as if that's relevant in any way.

Does this have to be the attitude though? It certainly doesnt help anyone or make anyones life easier. It doesnt improve the boards experience for the users involved, yourself included.

Essentially, its just an exercise in e-penis polishing for you, am I right?

CuLT

koneko wrote:

I PM banned users and let them know for how long, and to PM me when it's up as it's not automated, but I deal with very very few bans really.

Mmm, perhaps my attitude is just a carry over from moderating the significantly less taxing forums of Digital Art / Design and Anime / Manga.

I banned perhaps five people in two years there.

Now it's not unusual if I ban five people a week, already banned three or four people today.

amp

therecklessone wrote:

Sort of is dahling...

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=3242341&postcount=20

True I suspose. I had sitewide bans in mind when I wrote that. If you're in Prison you can't pm anybody. But true enough when it comes to forum bans.

IMO, visiting boards should be a civil and pleasant experience. If making the banning process a little bit clearer (and it ain't just the idiots who have to respect teh authoritah!) means less complaints overall,

Like I said, I enjoy being complained about. Serves notice on anybody else who thinks they can break the rules and get away with it. Also it, increases traffic to the forum in question and gets more people to read charters. So anybody complaining about me is doing me a favour. Which is nicely ironic considering they were stupid enough to get banned.

and helps n00bs learn from their mistakes then thats gotta be a good thing, right?

I think my method helps increase the chance that they won't re-offend.

That said if somebody pm's me after working out why they were banned and are polite I will probably reduce their sentence if it's a small offence.

amp

Draupnir wrote:

Does this have to be the attitude though? It certainly doesnt help anyone or make anyones life easier. It doesnt improve the boards experience for the users involved, yourself included.

A: I have no obligation make the "boards experience" better for people too stupid to abid by some basic common sense rules.
B: You have no idea what my "boards experience" is like.

Essentially, its just an exercise in e-penis polishing for you, am I right?

Of course you are. I only ban people to make myself feel better about my insecurities. Everytime I ban someone my penis grows a little more. Also I find my hair becomes more shiney and managable.

Giblet

PM's result in replies, replies which need to be read

Tar.Aldarion

write 'do not reply or i will uber bann0r you'?

RuggieBear

Never had to ban anyone yet (cricket and golf not being the hotbed of muppetry). Did unban one user tho

But i'll send a pm stating the reason why, if i do ever manage to ban someone.

therecklessone

amp wrote:

So anybody complaining about me is doing me a favour. Which is nicely ironic considering they were stupid enough to get banned.

But its not always the stupid people who get banned, right? You've been banned from forums before IIRC, right? Other boards elders have got the schmack of a ban hammer as well.

amp wrote:

I think my method helps increase the chance that they won't re-offend.

Or riles them up enough to get a site wide ban due to frustration. Most n00bs won't know how lovable and cuddly you really are, so might mistake your boards lesson as a wind up, and rise to the bait. Yeah, you'll say "so what, if they're stupid enough to do that I don't want to have to listen to them on here", but does that do anyone any favours (apart from yourself)?

I'm fairly sure (can't remember exact details) that DeV was on the verge of f*cking me out on my ear after a row we had in Politics many moons ago, but he didn't. I didn't get a ban for that matter (because I stayed within the charter), but I still learned a lot over the following months of what's expected on boards, and I'd like to think I'm a useful member of the community as a result.

therecklessone

RuggieBear wrote:

Never had to ban anyone yet (cricket and golf not being the hotbed of muppetry). Did unban one user tho

But i'll send a pm stating the reason why, if i do ever manage to ban someone.

Man, I'm sooooooooooooooooo trolling cricket later on this evening......

Baz_

therecklessone wrote:

Yeah, you'll say "so what, if they're stupid enough to do that I don't want to have to listen to them on here", but does that do anyone any favours (apart from yourself)?

I think it does us all a favour personally...

amp

therecklessone wrote:

But its not always the stupid people who get banned, right? You've been banned from forums before IIRC, right? Other boards elders have got the schmack of a ban hammer as well.

I've been banned from Feedback once, sitewide once. In both cases I knew exactly why I was banned. I didn't need to be pm'd either time. Nor was I annoyed when I wasn't. I learned from those lessons however because I am able to think rationally most of the time.

Or riles them up enough to get a site wide ban due to frustration. Most n00bs won't know how lovable and cuddly you really are, so might mistake your boards lesson as a wind up, and rise to the bait. Yeah, you'll say "so what, if they're stupid enough to do that I don't want to have to listen to them on here", but does that do anyone any favours (apart from yourself)?

I've listed the benefits of not pm'ing people already. Sometimes I want people to rise to the bait. If they have the self-control not to then I usually respect them more.

I'm fairly sure (can't remember exact details) that DeV was on the verge of f*cking me out on my ear after a row we had in Politics many moons ago, but he didn't. I didn't get a ban for that matter (because I stayed within the charter), but I still learned a lot over the following months of what's expected on boards, and I'd like to think I'm a useful member of the community as a result.

I don't ban people unless they break charter rules. I certainly wouldn't ban someone if they had a different opinion to me (unless it contravened charter rules). In some forums I warn people on the thread first. I don't pm them because when done publicly it has two benefits:

1. Increases awareness to other newbs about what is/is not acceptable.
2. User more likely not to re-offend.

RuggieBear

therecklessone wrote:

Man, I'm sooooooooooooooooo trolling cricket later on this evening......

\o/


my first potential customer

Gordon

Sometimes it's just not feasible to pm a user as cleaning up after someone can take time. And sometimes it's not worth ones while to do them the decency of telling them they are banned as they have not done decent by causing problems on the board in question.

If someone's going to cause problems on a forum then why should we take time out to pm them a nice "you have been banned, please pm me in a week to remind me when your ban is up mkay?"? I used to pm people when I banned them and then I realised that most of the people I banned didn't deserve it. I've even still got 2 pms that haven't been read by people I've banned.

MicraBoy

Is there such thing as a Moderators Charter? Something that mods agree to abide by when volunteering, that would be publicly available to all users. It could contain info like the OP suggested. Something like that could be handy for new mods.

tbh anything to reduce "why was I banned" threads would be useful.

kaimera

*****_stick*

...there's a wee little link after you ban a user to PM/Email user [using the utils link ecksor did].

it's really not that much effort imo.

Gordon

MicraBoy wrote:

Is there such thing as a Moderators Charter? Something that mods agree to abide by when volunteering, that would be publicly available to all users. It could contain info like the OP suggested. Something like that could be handy for new mods.

tbh anything to reduce "why was I banned" threads would be useful.

No I don't think there is. Nice idea though.

amp

MicraBoy wrote:

Is there such thing as a Moderators Charter? Something that mods agree to abide by when volunteering, that would be publicly available to all users. It could contain info like the OP suggested. Something like that could be handy for new mods.

tbh anything to reduce "why was I banned" threads would be useful.

I can think of a quicker way to reduce those. Close them on sight and ban the OP. That way people would be forced to use the Helpdesk to complain about a moderator.

However I don't agree that reducing those threads would be a good idea. They provide a constant reminder to the small fraction of the population of boards that read Feedback of what can get you banned. Also, making fun of morons is occasionally interesting.

rsynnott

Draupnir wrote:

I dont see the harm in trying to extend a little bit more civility to people.

So, your argument is, be nice to idiots who break the rules? How does that work?

I would think, if anything, be nastier to them; that way some of them may leave in disgust.

Giblet

Gordon wrote:

No I don't think there is. Nice idea though.

Gordon banned for not reading the moderators charter! :eek:

Gordon

You mean the charter ideas thread Gib?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=112292

Giblet

Hey, that's close enough, and I bet you had your eyes closed when posting too.

Gordon

It's the in thing these days, everyone is doing it.

Oriel

Look, if you get banned, you get banned. It's like a footballer complaining to a referee about giving a penalty against him - it's not going to reverse it, it'll only get you in trouble. You may not agree with the decision, others might not too, but hell, they're plenty of fourms on this thing.

S.

Draupnir

rsynnott wrote:

So, your argument is, be nice to idiots who break the rules? How does that work?

I would think, if anything, be nastier to them; that way some of them may leave in disgust.

All Im saying, is that common courtesy cant be a bad thing.

Someone who offends once on a forum = User getting to know the place and deserves a bit of decency.

Someone who offends again is obviously starting to take the mick, and then by all means I dont think anyone would complain if they got the amp treatment.

Anyway, it was only a suggestion and there is no real downside to it, except that it means Amp (and any other mod who is power tripping) cant compensate for whatever it is they are compensating for.

gandalf

It is good practice sending a PM telling people why they are banned and the lenght of the ban.

The only exceptions would be where the ban is obvious. Porn Spammer, someone spamming multiple forums or someone using a duplicate account and I doubt they will fire up the why was I banned query here.

Draupnir

I'd hope youd post here Gandalf. Fair dues.

Thanx 4 The Fish

If you can't do the time doen't do the time.

If somebody has read the charter as they are supposed to do and breaks the rules which they are not supposed to do then a banning is what they are gonna get. Why does somebody who knowingly wastes everybody elses time (reporting of a post and getting a mod to intervene getting banned and thread/post changed) deserve common courtesy ?

Draupnir

Maybe because the whole system is here for entertainment rather than anxiety and confrontation.

amp

/me juggles

amp

Draupnir wrote:

Anyway, it was only a suggestion and there is no real downside to it, except that it means Amp (and any other mod who is power tripping) cant compensate for whatever it is they are compensating for.

Why are you constantly trying to troll me? Or do you just not understand satire? Please give examples of my power tripping so I can correct this flaw!

Draupnir

Your assumption that I am trolling you is just another sign that you take Boards.ie too seriously Amp.

I'm not trolling you nor am I giving you any special consideration in my argument beyond the fact that your post about how you "want people to be confused about their ban etc." is a definite indication of why I feel you have a bad attitude as a moderator.

You make out that banned people are stupid and come across as though you feel you are more important than the users you ban. I think you over estimate your own self importance.

ecksor

Draupnir wrote:

Shouldnt it be a rule of the moderation process, that the moderator PM the user when banning them, informing them of the offence and also the length of the ban.

Many moderators do this already as a matter of course. When you ban a user from a forum you get a little link to the "send this user a PM" page.

When I ban a user from a forum I sometimes send a PM and sometimes I don't.

1. User knows the score and has no need to send PM asking, which will inevitably start a moan.

If a user should know the score anyway (clearly broke the rules, or was warned and continued anyway, seems like a bit of an undesirable/spammer/nuisance) then a PM will make no difference and I don't bother sending one. If it's less clear cut judgement call then I veer more towards sending a PM. I rarely ban from individual forums however.

2. User cant come to Feedback and start a thread saying "why was I banned"

User should make some effort to find out before coming here. Sending a PM will not stop many from posting here anyway, although it certainly removes an excuse for doing so.

amp

Draupnir wrote:

Your assumption that I am trolling you is just another sign that you take Boards.ie too seriously Amp.

And you don't? Why is it that you feel the need to crusade against my evil ways?

I'm not trolling you nor am I giving you any special consideration in my argument beyond the fact that your post about how you "want people to be confused about their ban etc." is a definite indication of why I feel you have a bad attitude as a moderator.

Well, I've tried to explain why I want people to be confused and now you are deliberately missinterpreting it in order to fit in with your "moderators do it for kicks" theory.

You make out that banned people are stupid

I don't need to make it out. Almost every single forum has a charter in it, warning the users what will get them banned. They are stickied and people are constantly reminded to read them. Therefore those that don't read them and get banned are stupid or stupid enough to think that they are exceptions to those rules.

and come across as though you feel you are more important than the users you ban. I think you over estimate your own self importance.

I do feel more important than the morons I ban. I think you are more important than them too because I've never banned you.

My own sense of self importance is entirely irrelivant as long as it doesn't affect my work as a moderator. If you have evidence to dispute this, then please show me.

Draupnir

I didnt mean to make this come across as a one man crusade against you Amp, in fact, I dont have a huge amount of knowledge of you besides a few of your posts on Feedback which do come across a little, uppity shall we say.

Either way, I appreciate that its very hard not to be hugely saarcastic when posting on boards so I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

I also dont believe that all moderators "do it for the kicks" in every case anyway. But there are some, more than others, who can tend to come across as getting a buzz out of being in charge. Which is unfortunate and unnecessary but probably a direct side effect of the power they have.

Anyway, Ecksor has it spot on above though I hate to admit it!, less than clear cut decisions deserve a PM, as do first offenders in my opinion, whereas spammy trolls or lads just taking the pìss dont.

I just feel that too much time and energy is wasted on the "moderators are prìcks", "fight the powah" debates on boards which are pretty much a daily occurance.

Blub2k4

Amp wrote:

Sometimes I want people to rise to the bait. If they have the self-control not to then I usually respect them more.

Is this not merely a troll in reverse?

amp

Draupnir wrote:

I didnt mean to make this come across as a one man crusade against you Amp, in fact, I dont have a huge amount of knowledge of you besides a few of your posts on Feedback which do come across a little, uppity shall we say.

I like posting in Feedback. I can be quite dismissive of posts I find boring, when things are brought up again and again and we tread the same ground time after time.

Either way, I appreciate that its very hard not to be hugely saarcastic when posting on boards so I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

Oh thanks man, I was worried there for a while. Does this mean you'll actually do some research next time before accusing me of things I haven't done? That would be a refreshing change.

I also dont believe that all moderators "do it for the kicks" in every case anyway. But there are some, more than others, who can tend to come across as getting a buzz out of being in charge. Which is unfortunate and unnecessary but probably a direct side effect of the power they have.

Anyway, Ecksor has it spot on above though I hate to admit it!, less than clear cut decisions deserve a PM, as do first offenders in my opinion, whereas spammy trolls or lads just taking the pìss dont.

That's his style, mines different. Moderators have different ways of doing things.

I just feel that too much time and energy is wasted on the "moderators are prìcks", "fight the powah" debates on boards which are pretty much a daily occurance.

It's currently October, this is when lots of new people get unlimited internet access for the first time. These people generally dislike the power. Looking back, this generally happens every September/October. So I entirely expect even more threads next year with crusading newbies storming the battlements demanding democracy, freedom of speech and free ipods.

amp

Blub2k4 wrote:

Is this not merely a troll in reverse?

Why yes it is. You might even call it entrapment.

[Jackass]

Hit a nerve did I? :cool:

Amps arguing with people on a thread? Hijacking it to make it about himself? :eek:

Whatever floats your boat tbh.

amp

DubGuy wrote:

Hit a nerve did I? :cool:

Um this is the first time I've replied to you on this thread. What nerve do you think you hit exactly?

Amps arguing with people on a thread? Hijacking it to make it about himself? :eek:

Whatever floats your boat tbh.

I chose to give my opinion on this topic. People then chose to accuse me of all sort of things which I showed to be false. So, I didn't bring this thread off-topic.

I suggest that if people want to make up more crap to throw at me, they should create a thread in the Thunderdome. Otherwise they should argue my points and not attack my character.

Tekken5isalive

does anyone like amp anymore?

rsynnott

Tekken5isalive wrote:

does anyone like amp anymore?

Yes; his posts are rather more fun than those of the whiny trolls.