Foreign car - stopped by the guards

lolli

Hi,

I'm just looking for some advice. My boyfriend is driving a car from Europe. Yesterday he got stopped by the guards and was told he has 7 days to stop driving that car or else they will take it. Ok thats grand we knew that was going to happen at some stage so he was planning on buying an Irish car anyway. He has to drive to work so he is in trouble due to money. By next wednesday he has to have an irish car and irish insurance. I bought a car this week (just something to learn to drive in) Its just sitting in my yard until i get my licence/insurance sorted out. I was wondering would it be possible for him to drive that car for a few weeks. I'm waiting for the VLC back, but does the car have to be in his name in order to insure it. Also can you get Irish insurance on an EU Licence or will he also have to change his licence. He just needs something to drive for a few weeks until the finances are sorted. I would be grateful for any help.

mackerski

Insuring a car that isn't yours: Should be fine.
Getting insurance with a non-Irish EU licence: 100% fine.
Getting insurance if of a foreign nationality: No theoretical obstacle, but some insurance companies will ask nationality and may apply a loading.

Dermot

peasant

actually ...it is a bit worse than that ...

He has 7 days to REGISTER that car in Ireland, or they can impound it anyway ...whether he's driving it or not.

Read up on the revenue website about VRT and possible excemptions ...then either get the car registered (pay the VRT) or get it out of the country ...quickly.

ballooba

Has your boyfriend been driving uninsured in this country for an extended period of time?

[edit] Yes, he can be insured without the VLC. Even if he doesn't own the car. AFAIK.[/edit]

mackerski

ballooba wrote:

Has your boyfriend been driving uninsured in this country for an extended period of time?

Doesn't follow, does it? It's perfectly possible to drive a foreign registered vehicle that is insured. Furthermore, if he had been driving uninsured, I'd expect the guards to prosecute for that, not to give 7 days grace for registering the car.

Dermot

ballooba

Doesn't necessarily follow. Just a question. I take it he is driving a LHD with a foreign insurance policy?

Turner

If he has a permanant address here he must re-register his foreign car with customs and pay road tax on it,

And obviously display a tax and (irish) insurance disc and nct if applicable.

ballooba

Customs officer followed my brother to work one day. Approached him when he got out of the car with a smug look on his face. He just started reading my bro his rights and stated that he was impounding the car.

My bro couldn't get a word in edgeways, just had to plant the application for registration documents in his face. He was lucky that he had them or he would have been down one Land Rover Discovery.

mackerski

The rules, while very specific, are not 100% clear in any given case. When does an address become a permanant address? I've been down this road myself - I moved home with my German registered car. I exercised my right to re-register it here for free, but not right away. After all, who was to say that I was going to be back for good? From my readings at the time, I recall there being a time period of 12 months as the time window in which you could exercise your VRT exemption, with a shorter period (6 months?) after which you'd usually be deemed to be here for good and expected to replate. The subtlety here, of course, would relate somewhat to whether the car had spent all that time in the state.

Dermot

Turner

I suppose you could argue all this....... after they have taken your car...

Not sure how far you'd get, im sure the customs guys know their job.

mackerski

Chief--- wrote:

I suppose you could argue all this....... after they have taken your car...

Not sure how far you'd get, im sure the customs guys know their job.

It's a poor example of a single European market when a bone-fide European taxpayer can't exercise his right to use his car temporarily in another part of the Union. A custom's man may know his job, but he doesn't know my career plans - and, crucially, maybe I don't either. In cases of VRT exemption, of course, the custom's officers aren't even protecting any revenue.

Dermot

ballooba

Mackerski, I'm sure you'd be of a different point of view if you were hit by one of those LHD cars and found out that their insurance wasn't exactly clear cut.

Guy:Incognito

mackerski wrote:

It's a poor example of a single European market when a bone-fide European taxpayer can't exercise his right to use his car temporarily in another part of the Union. A custom's man may know his job, but he doesn't know my career plans - and, crucially, maybe I don't either. In cases of VRT exemption, of course, the custom's officers aren't even protecting any revenue.

Dermot

Anythign other than a holiday and it has to be registered. If you are working here and living you are deemed to be here permenantly.

mackerski

ballooba wrote:

Mackerski, I'm sure you'd be of a different point of view if you were hit by one of those LHD cars and found out that their insurance wasn't exactly clear cut.

Different POV to what? I've surmised that a person stopped without insurance would be prosecuted for same, and we've seen no suggestion that such a thing happened. FWIW, my reaction to being hit by an uninsured car would be fairly unprintable, but would not depend on the position of its steering wheel - my own car is LHD, so I have no special prejudice there.

Stekelly wrote:

Anythign other than a holiday and it has to be registered. If you are working here and living you are deemed to be here permenantly.

Not so: http://www.revenue.ie/leaflets/vrt2.htm

(Look at section 3, particularly the 185-day rule).

It would be insane if things were as you describe, especially if every country did the same. Seasonal workers would be driven mad with it, as would those who were simply pretty mobile.

StRiKeR

I had a problem like this before, it wasnt good either, I went back to UK for interview of a job, I got the job, so I registered the in the UK before I came back to pack my stuff, I was over there for a month on Irish reg and no one said a word to me, so I came back, and very quickly I got pulled and question about why I have an english reg car, that was fine, but I didnt have time to get the english tax as I was rushing, so another nite my car got taken off me for no tax even though it is a UK car! took a few days before I got it out and missed my ferry by 2 days, I was a week late for the job and they took on someone else! so I sold that car and I'm still here!

lolli

He has insurance on the car. We were in his home country a few weeks ago and I was wit him when he got the insurance. See the thing is he wants to sell this car. He was planning on bringing it back at christmas anyway. He is staying in Ireland for good. I rang Quinn Direct and they said he cant insure my car. 7 days is a crazy amount of time because work wont even give a day off to sort anything out. I dunno what we are going to do. He just started a new job so he hasnt any savings yet so we cant exactly afford this. They gave his friend until Xmas to sort it out and give my bf 7 days that doesnt seem very fair.

mackerski

Have you read through the conditions stated under the link I posted above? Is there any chance he has been here for a short enough time to be under the 185 day ceiling?

Dermot

the_syco

StRiKeR wrote:

I was a week late for the job and they took on someone else! so I sold that car and I'm still here!

I hope ye sued customs for loss of earnings or brought the f*ckers to court.

lolli

Yeah Dermot i read it. he hasnt been out of the country 185 days. Think we are fecked

unkel

lolli, you are right to be concerned. As you say, we all know the rules but hey, if they aren't enforced...

Until quite recently, I reckoned people with foreign reg cars that live in Ireland were left alone. Not any more. Please believe me, the car will be taken off you

Word must have got out already here in Lucan. Eastern European regs (about 10-20% a month ago in my loose and un-scientific observation) are down to next to nothing

lomb

i drove an irish car for 2.5 years the length and bredth of the UK, and was only pulled once by a nice man in hull, who asked for a license, once i handed it over he said fine and that was that.
this country is bonkers, some one needs to tell customs this is the EU...there living in the past!

hawkmoon269

This thread is proof, yet again, that the guards have no interest whatever in helping the public, rather that their main agenda is now to hassle people.

Hagar

Although you say your bf never left the country during the 185 days was the car outside the state during that time?
Did you spend any time in N. Ireland by any chance?
Can you prove you did?
It might help, I'm not sure.

FX Meister

The Gardaí often don't want the hassle of dealing with non Irish drivers with no insurance. I was hit by a prick with no insurance and two weeks later he was in another car and noinsurance on that either. I called the cops to where his car was and told them which house he was in and they said they "couldn't do anything about it". Just lazy bastards.

mackerski wrote:

Doesn't follow, does it? It's perfectly possible to drive a foreign registered vehicle that is insured. Furthermore, if he had been driving uninsured, I'd expect the guards to prosecute for that, not to give 7 days grace for registering the car.

Dermot

ondafly

mackerski wrote:

Insuring a car that isn't yours: Should be fine.

Just to clear this up - it is not possible for anyone to insure a car, they don't own, as they don't have an "insurable" interest.

ZENER

Does his current insurance have open drive ? This would mean (I think) he could drive any car that does not belong to him with the owners permission ?!



ZEN

mackerski

ondafly wrote:

Just to clear this up - it is not possible for anyone to insure a car, they don't own, as they don't have an "insurable" interest.

My bad - but how does this work within families, where the lead name on a family car insurance policy is often chosen at the last minute based on who gets the better quote? Is there latitude given on what defines ownership? If so, could it be invoked in this particular case?

Dermot

Victor

I actually saw a German registered car the other day with a Dublin City Council residents parking permit on it (only issued to bona fide residents).

daveirl

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unkel

daveirl wrote:

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Fully agree. Don't get me wrong, I'd prefer a situation with an EU wide tax (none) and duty (none) on cars and with a common EU duty on petrol. It's not here (yet) so people who won't comply should cough up or face severe penalties. If only all people would comply, I'd probably pay half of what I pay now in motor tax

Thanks a lot folks living here on foreign reg cars. You make me pay your tax for you :mad:

FX Meister

Yeah that's really likely to happen. The government won't lower motor tax just cause they are getting it from more drivers.

mrbungle

SWORDS is riddled with eastern european cars right now. There are literally hundreds of them, mercs, bmws, audis. Not a sign of a lada. SWORDS needs to be targetted by Revenue and Customs and Excise and the Gardai.

These people are evading tax. We are paying for their right to drive on our roads.

lomb

this is europe. we were happy taking their money when things were bad here, now the government thru the cops is sticking up 2 fingers to europeans.
i disagree with allowing the new former comm states in the eu simply because the economies arent meshed , but what did they expect would happen?
if you do something u do it wholeheartedly, if they are in europe then let them be. this is all one country now...

mrbungle

lomb wrote:

if you do something u do it wholeheartedly, if they are in europe then let them be. this is all one country now...

So why should I pay motor tax on an imported car and an eastern european drives into our country and doesn't pay motor tax ?

My aunty recently imported her car from South Africa and the excise people wouldn't release it until the vrt was fully paid, registered and plates changed.

Those eastern europeans live here with there cars and have never changed plates or paid tax. Pay up Ivan.

eth0_

lomb wrote:

this country is bonkers, some one needs to tell customs this is the EU...there living in the past!

These people are driving UNINSURED. Some countries (Latvia being one, I think) don't even require you to have insurance. What if these people crash into you? Should they still be allowed drive around with their foreign plates with no irish tax or insurance?

I fully agree with customs going after these people. A lot of their cars are unroadworthy, and once they're here x amount of months their insurance isn't going to cover them if they have a crash in Ireland.

And I object to paying road tax while skinflint foreigners refuse to obey the law of the country they came to of their own free will..

DublinWriter

lomb wrote:

this is europe. we were happy taking their money when things were bad here, now the government thru the cops is sticking up 2 fingers to europeans.

I've lost count of the times I've seen various LT regged cars drive recklessly up and down the N2.

I've lost count of the times I've seen NI boy racers tear up the M50 hitting speeds of 100+ MPH.

The clampdown is long overdue and perhaps is a result of vast numbers of foreign regged cars treating our roads and road users with disrespect.

As far as I know, you are given a fairly generous window of time in which to register a foreign car in this country if you are a resident here.

You live and work in Ireland? You pay Irish taxes. End of story.

mackerski

eth0_ wrote:

These people are driving UNINSURED.

Down with this sort of thing. I'm sick of these ludicrous segways. There are no doubt people evading motor insurance here. Some of them drive foreign registered cars and some of them don't. But in the context of this discussion "These People" have been people driving foreign registered cars, something I did myself for a time after moving home, with full comprehensive insurance.

If you want to accuse, be specific about whom you are accusing. We have enough problems in this country with intolerance.

Dermot

lomb

DublinWriter wrote:

I've lost count of the times I've seen various LT regged cars drive recklessly up and down the N2.

I've lost count of the times I've seen NI boy racers tear up the M50 hitting speeds of 100+ MPH.

The clampdown is long overdue and perhaps is a result of vast numbers of foreign regged cars treating our roads and road users with disrespect.

As far as I know, you are given a fairly generous window of time in which to register a foreign car in this country if you are a resident here.

You live and work in Ireland? You pay Irish taxes. End of story.

Ive seen enough IE plated cars driving crazily in the UK, mine being one of them so what?

DublinWriter

lomb wrote:

Ive seen enough IE plated cars driving crazily in the UK, mine being one of them so what?

Hmmmm...*considers social Darwinism*....nothing really, prey continue.

dermot_sheehan

eth0_ wrote:

These people are driving UNINSURED. Some countries (Latvia being one, I think) don't even require you to have insurance. What if these people crash into you? Should they still be allowed drive around with their foreign plates with no irish tax or insurance?

I fully agree with customs going after these people. A lot of their cars are unroadworthy, and once they're here x amount of months their insurance isn't going to cover them if they have a crash in Ireland.

And I object to paying road tax while skinflint foreigners refuse to obey the law of the country they came to of their own free will..

Actually there is compulsory 3rd party insurance in eu member states. If you're hit by one of them and they're evading Latvia and Irish Law by not having 3rd party insurance, you sue the Latvia bureau for uninsured motorists (like the irish equivalent)

MrPudding

DublinWriter wrote:

I've lost count of the times I've seen various LT regged cars drive recklessly up and down the N2.

I've lost count of the times I've seen NI boy racers tear up the M50 hitting speeds of 100+ MPH.

The clampdown is long overdue and perhaps is a result of vast numbers of foreign regged cars treating our roads and road users with disrespect.

As far as I know, you are given a fairly generous window of time in which to register a foreign car in this country if you are a resident here.

You live and work in Ireland? You pay Irish taxes. End of story.

I've lost count of the times I've seen Irish drivers drive recklessly up and down the N2 and other roads.

I've also lost count of the times I've seen Irish drivers tear uo the M50 hitting speeds of 100+ MPH.

I've also lost count of the number of times I've seen Irish drivers ignoring red lights and generally driving like they have never had a driving lesson or done a test, oh wait, they probably haven't.

So, what is your point?

MrP

DublinWriter

MrPudding wrote:

I've lost count of the times I've seen Irish drivers drive recklessly up and down the N2 and other roads.

I've also lost count of the times I've seen Irish drivers tear uo the M50 hitting speeds of 100+ MPH.

I've also lost count of the number of times I've seen Irish drivers ignoring red lights and generally driving like they have never had a driving lesson or done a test, oh wait, they probably haven't.

So, what is your point?

MrP

My point is at least the Irish cars can be tracked down and the owners brought to book.

daveirl

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FX Meister

Latvia isn't in the EU though. I'm sure it would be quite a serious headache trying to get money out of the Latvia bureau for uninsured motorists. I have claimed off the Irish one though because of a Roma wanker with no insurance and I found them great to deal with.

gabhain7 wrote:

Actually there is compulsory 3rd party insurance in eu member states. If you're hit by one of them and they're evading Latvia and Irish Law by not having 3rd party insurance, you sue the Latvia bureau for uninsured motorists (like the irish equivalent)

CrowdedHouse

FX Meister wrote:

Latvia isn't in the EU though.

It is actually

ballooba

ondafly wrote:

Just to clear this up - it is not possible for anyone to insure a car, they don't own, as they don't have an "insurable" interest.

Did you make that up?

Of course you have an insurable interest to have third party insurance. It's for damage you do to other people. Not yourself.

MrPudding

DublinWriter wrote:

My point is at least the Irish cars can be tracked down and the owners brought to book.

What are the numbers for uninsured drivers in Ireland? I seem to remember it being fairly high, not much sing of them being tracked down and brought to book.

How many threads do we have on this board where people have had their cars damaged but the police will not do anything even when the victim has a reg number?

People with LT or LV plated or whatever plates are just normal drivers. You are acting like they diplomatic imunity or something. If the cops could be arsed doing something there is plenty they could do. Do not confuse lazyness on the part of the police with inability to do something because the legal structure is not in place.

Are you seriously trying to suggest that simply because someone does not come from this country they are not accountable before the law? Catch yourselves on.

MrP

maidhc

ballooba wrote:

Did you make that up?

Of course you have an insurable interest to have third party insurance. It's for damage you do to other people. Not yourself.

My understanding would be the same as that of ondafly. Third party insurance is not insurance for other people, but insurance for you against other peoples claims against you for damage done by you. It happens to be mandatory to people who suffer damage have a decent mark (big insurance co) against whom to sue. So there is an insurable interest in the case of third party insurance.

daveirl

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mackerski

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

Nobody mentioned speeding fines, except just now, when you did it. Are you guys frantically trying to find new reasons to demonise drivers of foreign-registered cars when the old reasons evaporate? That's what it feels like.

FWIW, a speeding ticket can be issued to anybody a guard chooses to stop on the road. If that person cannot be tied to an address (as in the case of a foreign reg), they may end up in the slammer until they can discharge the fine. In this regard, foreigners are more vulnerable than we are. That said, with our quota culture for speeding tickets, I'd say the guards prefer the simpler cases - let's see if we can blame that on the foreigners.

Dermot

lolli

Just to clarify something, my boyfriend has insurance and he is insured to drive in Ireland. He made sure of that. He's not the type of person who would drive without insurance. He was planning to buy an Irish car he just needs time. We were in Rosslare Harbour a couple of months ago, customs stopped us, asked us where he was workint etc, they never mentioned anything about the car they said everything was in order so I think they have a cheek now stopping him and giving him seven days to sort everything out. 3 days left now.... He wasnt planning on conning anyone, he just needed time to save up for a decent car and the crazy cost of Irish insurance.