Congrats to the Government...

...I know it isn't as newsworthy as Eddie Hobbs complaints about sick budgies and dogwalking, but I believe Tax Revenue this week came in one billion euros ahead of what was projected.

I hope those who constantly carp about the Government, the budgie and dogwalking, are magnanimous enough to praise success, when its due...

CJhaughey

Taxation as a success? WTF?
So they managed to steal more money from everyone!Is that really to be praised?
It is obviously the mega-rich that swelled the coffers to bursting point right?
Not Joe Soap paying over the odds for stamp duty and all the other sly little taxes that one doesn't see at first.
Hmm...

Culchie

Who did the bloody projections?

The same people that did the budget on the Health Service Computer Systems?

"You're having a laff " ...surely

HelterSkelter

Yeah, congrats for screwing me in up arse a little more than you intended to.

[Jackass]

Yes well done to the government for clearly over taxing to the extent they have an extra 1 billion!!! They have no idea what they're doing and can't keep track of how much the stealth tax will bring in, its so stealthy they cant even keep track of it.

Thanks for over charging us €1 billion bertie.

CJhaughey

CJhaughey wrote:

Not Joe Soap paying over the odds for stamp duty

In my experience it is commercial developers and investors who pay the vast bulk of stamp duty, as opposed to the Joe Soaps you mention.

Either way, I think I'm getting the reaction I expected.

I just wanted to check if people could dish out criticism and praise in an unbiased fashion, or really just hated anything that had the FF imprimateur...

Tomohawk

Conor74 can I direct your attention to the long article in the Irish Times saturday edition in the last 2 weeks that highlighted Tax evasion in the building industry.

Another headline the other day in said paper was about millionaires paying little or no income tax to our exchequer.

God Bless 'em all :rolleyes:

Tomohawk

Tomohawk wrote:

Tax evasion in the building industry.

And I presume, given the title to this thread, the point you are making is this only started with the current FF/PD Coalition being in power.

God Bless 'em is right, sure weren't they all tax compliant up to 1997...

Ardent

Deleted User wrote:

In my experience it is commercial developers and investors who pay the vast bulk of stamp duty, as opposed to the Joe Soaps you mention.

Don't developers pass on stamp duties to consumers anyway at the end of the day? Can't believe you can call the amount of tax our sneaky government raked in this year a "success"...!

It's hardly success in my view when I see the difference between gross pay and net pay on my pay check every month. Or the way I get fleeced with VAT and over-charging in any shop with what's left after income tax. Not to mention house prices, stamp duty, roads tolls, VRT, road tax, ESB increases...

More like getting away with daylight robbery than success.

Ardent

Ardent wrote:

Don't developers pass on stamp duties to consumers anyway at the end of the day?

I think you'll find I referred to 'commercial' developers.

seamus

I'd be happy if I didn't know that the €1 billion will just be squandered by greedy contractors and morons getting paid too much for doing too little because they think they require jobs for life.

I've no problem paying tax - it's the way they waste it that bothers me.

Zombrex

Deleted User wrote:

...I know it isn't as newsworthy as Eddie Hobbs complaints about sick budgies and dogwalking, but I believe Tax Revenue this week came in one billion euros ahead of what was projected.

I hope those who constantly carp about the Government, the budgie and dogwalking, are magnanimous enough to praise success, when its due...

Er ... don't you mean congrats to the people of this fine state who pay taxes ... the government still has a 2 billion euro deficit, so I hardly think they are save the state money ...

RainyDay

Coming in so far over budget shows how poor their forecasting is - I'm surprised you fell for the little 'under-promise, over-deliver' trick.

Zombrex

Deleted User wrote:

Either way, I think I'm getting the reaction I expected.

I just wanted to check if people could dish out criticism and praise in an unbiased fashion, or really just hated anything that had the FF imprimateur...

They didn't do anything!!

As soon as you point out what FF should exactly be given credit for, I am sure you will get some ... at the moment you might as well be saying "Look the extra sunny summer really helped the farmers, we should really thank Fianna Fail for providing the sun" :rolleyes:

Sarsfield

The reasoning behind taxation is so the government can raise funds to spend (wisely) on our behalf on worthy projects that benefit us all yet no individual or other group could fund.

The fact is that spending is nearly €1bn behind including a €350m underspend in capex.

This suggests that the Government is only interested in raising money. The wise expenditure on worthy projects side of the bargain is not being well kept.

We want our money back in the form of good public services please!

Culchie

RainyDay wrote:

Coming in so far over budget shows how poor their forecasting is - I'm surprised you fell for the little 'under-promise, over-deliver' trick.

Bingo !

If private business were as accurate we'd be in some fine mess.

Wicknight

Wicknight wrote:

As soon as you point out what FF should exactly be given credit for, I am sure you will get some ... at the moment you might as well be saying "Look the extra sunny summer really helped the farmers, we should really thank Fianna Fail for providing the sun" :rolleyes:

I appreciate that the whole earth/sun thing is for Mother Nature. But do you really think she prepares the annual Budget too, and tweaks the tax regime every year?

Tomohawk

Quote:
Originally Posted by Conor74
Either way, I think I'm getting the reaction I expected.

I just wanted to check if people could dish out criticism and praise in an unbiased fashion, or really just hated anything that had the FF imprimateur...



They didn't do anything!!

As soon as you point out what FF should exactly be given credit for, I am sure you will get some ... at the moment you might as well be saying "Look the extra sunny summer really helped the farmers, we should really thank Fianna Fail for providing the sun"

Well Said!
For many young people the ruling government since 1997 is all they have known. For these cetlic tiger cubs their political and historical knowledge of the earlier 90s and beyond can be scant. I've been voting since 1986 in Irish politics and have always taken an interest in the way this country is run. In my own experience the periods of FF dominance in any of our governments have been the worst on grounds of bad management (and corruption). This last one we can now add definetively post tribunals.

For FF to take the lions share of the credit for the economic and thus social developments in the last 10 years is a joke. What happened before 1997 indeed Conor74... granted that we had Irish other governments.

I personally put the celtic tiger boom down to an worldwide economic upswing in the economies of the developed nations at the the time. This and the rise of the PC! It was gonna happen anyway regardless of who was in power at the time in Kildare street. But who gets the credit, alas FF mostly. Rather who claims the credit, FF mostly.

Zombrex

Deleted User wrote:

I appreciate that the whole earth/sun thing is for Mother Nature. But do you really think she prepares the annual Budget too, and tweaks the tax regime every year?

Nope she doesn't so, to avoid confusion, I will change my statement to neither Fianna Fail or Mother nature deserve credit for the money

Not that anyone in particular deserves credit, this money is a product of under estimation, it is not as if anyone actually produced extra money. The government continues to waste bucket loads of money every day.

Ray777

I hope those who constantly carp about the Government, the budgie and dogwalking, are magnanimous enough to praise success, when its due...

Personally, I'll be quite happy to praise success when I see it. I don't think the current government has done an awful lot to merit praise though. Perhaps, when people are nolonger reduced to experiencing third world conditions in this 'booming' country's hospitals, I shall consider the government worthy of praise. In the mean time, I will consider them to be the most incompetent government of my lifetime, squandering money left, right and centre and living off the back of the economic success, of which the foundations were implemented long before they entered power.

Well, I bought a big cake for the Government and only fans get a slice...

Cork

I think that country is in good financial position. The government deserves credit for this.

Many countries across the globe would love to be in such a position.

Slice of cake heading to Cork...

DublinWriter

Sarsfield wrote:

The reasoning behind taxation is so the government can raise funds to spend (wisely) on our behalf on worthy projects that benefit us all yet no individual or other group could fund.

Like, for example, P-PARS.

DublinWriter

Cork wrote:

I think that country is in good financial position.

Just a wild guess, but you haven't suffered from any illness requiring a hospital stay recently and you don't have kids.

There is now a phenomenon in this country called 'the working poor'.

Cork

DublinWriter wrote:

There is now a phenomenon in this country called 'the working poor'.

We had the "new poor" in the early 90's.

The working poor? Can I join?

I am doing part time study. I am using all my free time with a part time course. I will be using up all my holidays up over the next couple of months for study. I don't care very much for my current job. I would love to claim victimhood. I would love a good holiday.

I see students going around in cars. Irish people taking numerous foriegn holidays and even owning property abroad.

I was talking to some forign workers today who were working in Cork and they were so impressed with this country.

Sure health needs improvement.

sceptre

Cork wrote:

I see students going around in cars.

Heavens to Betsy. No, I can't believe it.

fly_agaric

Deleted User wrote:

Well, I bought a big cake for the Government and only fans get a slice...

Our government is doing a great job of running the country Conor74!

/WW mode

NOT!
You can keep your slice of cake. If its a FF cake I'm sure its a very small slice anyway. And it might be poison!

pitstop

I don't care HOW much it is - what they do with it is the problem - talk to that lady in Dublin with the teenage autistic child who could not get care and eventually got treatment thru public donation - but yet we can spend 11MILLION!!!! on consulting services and health care payroll systems and electronic voting - I can't even waste my time listing them!!

I would LOVE to be completing annual appraisals on these guys - they would owe money instead of getting increases!! Shower of !!!

EVEN WORSE - we don't have an opposition!!

pitstop

Just listening to some fool from IPA saying that the outcome of the PPARS incident will be a period of...................


REFLECTION...............



aaaahhhh.....

SoBe

just on reading this thread i know im not alone in thinking that the ff/pd partnership has squandered more money than i will ever see in a life time on pointless things.i just hope that come election day they see how the people of this country have had enough of them.

i for one have had more than enough of them,i have got to the point that i have sold my house and will be emigrating as soon as i get my visa (just a matter of waiting now)

there are many reasons why im emigrating but top of the list is our pathetic excuse for a goverment and the way they treat the normal working man

oh and by the way i dont want any cake either

Zombrex

Cork wrote:

I think that country is in good financial position. The government deserves credit for this.

Well the current government didn't have a lot to do with that, and at the moment it is the only reason the country as a whole is still ticking along generally ok

I never really understand this view that because things are not as bad as they could be because of the left over money of the Celtic Tiger, the government is some how doing a good job?

It is like saying "I don't mind I just got robbed, sure its pay day tomorrow, plenty more where that came from" ...

gandalf

Oh dear you want to give the Government a big slap on the back for taking in more taxes than projected I have no problem with that if we see this being invested wisely for the future of the country.

Unfortunately this government have squandered the chance to better our infrastructure and health service and after a term and a half the health service is in worse condition (I am basing that assertion on personal experience due to a family members illness) and the road network/public transport is in chaos and unable to keep up with the levels of growth.

They have wasted money left right and centre and it has been masked because of the good returns in taxes.

Major overruns on Roads.
Major overrun on Luas.
P-PARS
Abbotstown (along with Irish Watergate)
Electronic Voting with the machines that will probably never be used and are costing more money to store.
Decentralisation, failure both as a concept and implimentation.

I am sure there are many more pathetic failures that this government have overseen but at the moment I cannot be bothered to look them up.

The point I am making Conor is these times, the ones when you are actually making money are the times to invest in the future and make sure when times do go bad we are in a position to ride out that storm. This current mob seem incapable of doing this. Time for a change.

fli

fli wrote:

i for one have had more than enough of them,i have got to the point that i have sold my house and will be emigrating as soon as i get my visa (just a matter of waiting now)

Interesting point you raise.

Maybe a good comparison is to look at emigration figures now and compare and contrast with those the last time a FG/Labour Government got elected, say back in 1985. Surely if things were worse, or as bad as everyone says, the numbers would have gone through the roof since...

billy the squid

is it any wonder the government have more money than they expected. a large proportion of ireland's inflation is because of their actions.

1) privitisation of refuse to companies who charge horrendous fees. And eircom, resulting in one of the worst telecommunications networks in the EU.

2} Massive increases in TV licences and increases in semi state companies' charges, i.e. ESB, Bord Gais, VHI An Post.

The government promised also that the registration fees would not go above 150 irish pounds when they were implemented. they are 750 euros now.

Its a slap in the mouth the government deserves more than a slap on the back.

Culchie

Deleted User wrote:

Interesting point you raise.

Maybe a good comparison is to look at emigration figures now and compare and contrast with those the last time a FG/Labour Government got elected, say back in 1985. Surely if things were worse, or as bad as everyone says, the numbers would have gone through the roof since...

WTF are you talking about?

Congratulations, you are going to get the response you've probably being trying to tease of people, and I'll hold my hands up and apologise in advance, as I'm obviously the weak one, but Conor, you are a knob !

You are impossible to even try and hold any sort of a debate with, you just put your hands around your ears and hum when anyone else is trying to make a point. I think you must be Conor Lenihan.

Sleepy

Ok, I'll give the government their due: fair play for the plastic bag levy and the smoking ban.

Now how the bloody hell have you managed to screw up everything else?

HelterSkelter

fly_agaric wrote:

Our government is doing a great job of running the country Conor74!

/WW mode

NOT!
You can keep your slice of cake. If its a FF cake I'm sure its a very small slice anyway. And it might be poison!

They will probably take 90% of the slice of cake back in tax anyway, do you like eating crumbs?

Culchie

Culchie wrote:

WTF are you talking about?

Congratulations, you are going to get the response you've probably being trying to tease of people, and I'll hold my hands up and apologise in advance, as I'm obviously the weak one, but Conor, you are a knob !

You are impossible to even try and hold any sort of a debate with, you just put your hands around your ears and hum when anyone else is trying to make a point. I think you must be Conor Lenihan.

You honestly consider 'debate' to be three paragraphs of personal abuse? Sorry, I won't get drawn into that one. People will have different opinions, I might not agree with yours but you are entitled to it and I won't get abusive.

Fyi, the emigration one was a response to Fli - he brought up the issue and I was responding to his post.

gandalf

Culchie wrote:

WTF are you talking about?

Congratulations, you are going to get the response you've probably being trying to tease of people, and I'll hold my hands up and apologise in advance, as I'm obviously the weak one, but Conor, you are a knob !

You are impossible to even try and hold any sort of a debate with, you just put your hands around your ears and hum when anyone else is trying to make a point. I think you must be Conor Lenihan.

Culchie, there is a policy of no insults on the politics forum. You are banned for a week.

Zombrex

Sleepy wrote:

Ok, I'll give the government their due: fair play for the plastic bag levy and the smoking ban.

Good point ... I will happily and whole heartly give credit to the government for the plastic bag levy and the smoking ban, two schemes that have worked very very well in my opinion ... credit where credit is due, they just don't deserve any credit for the extra 1 billion in tax revenue

Beruthiel

afaik this includes stamp duty, 10 grand of which I had to shell out for the privilege of buying a house
like it's not hard enough to purchase a house without this stupid tax on top of it

Tomohawk

Conor74, how old were you in 1985? (and yes it is relevant?) Your attempt at comparision of emigration figures is facetious.

I sugguest you start by looking at RTEs "Reeling in the Years" 1980-1983 to gently accustomise yourself to the Irish political landscape at the time. Then I sugguest you take a long hard look at the "Haughey" documentary from early this year and concentrate this time on this mans criminal activities for the same peroid.

"Let them eat cake" indeed...

Tomohawk

The plastic bag levy was a bit of a no-brainer wasn't it. When I was in Germany in 1986, yes nearly 2 decades ago in 1986!! they had this system in their supermarkets.

The smoking ban was another imported idea. With the dearth of political management and leadership skills, that must be why they hire consultants like Monica Leech... :rolleyes:

Has that cake stuck in anyones throat yet?

Beruthiel

Beruthiel wrote:

afaik this includes stamp duty, 10 grand of which I had to shell out for the privilege of buying a house

Ouch.

As a matter of curiosity, had you lost your first time buyer's status or was the house >317k?

murphaph

Conor, you have a very blinkered, almost child like admiration (awestruck) of this present government. They have not done a good job of spending OUR money. They have been in power throughout your beloved 'celtic tiger' yet take one look at a map, try to find ONE complete motorway on that map. You can't-their own National Development Plan 2000-2006 was supposed to deliver motorway on all the inter-urban routes. We are nowhere near that today. This is just one aspect of their broken promises. Bertie NEVER admits he's fcuked up-do you have any idea how annoying that is, to see that bollix standing up in Dail Eireann, justifying the blowing of 130 mil on PPARS for one? Is your family in politics or something?

murphaph

murphaph wrote:

Conor, you have a very blinkered, almost child like admiration (awestruck) of this present government.

Not at all. I freely admit they have made some monumental ****ups, like e-voting and the current PPARS crisis. But I just keep remembering what it was like when any other Government was in - again particularly 82/87 - and I am firmly of the opionion that, while it's far from perfect, we've never had it so good.

murphaph wrote:

Is your family in politics or something?

No. In fact, out of 9 votes in our house, 4 FF, 4 FG and 1 Labour last time out.

murphaph

Deleted User wrote:

But I just keep remembering what it was like when any other Government was in - again particularly 82/87 - and I am firmly of the opionion that, while it's far from perfect, we've never had it so good.

But that 'logic' has two fatal flaws-it assumes the government is directly responsible for the current paper prosperity, and it also implies that things couldn't be a lot better if the country was being run properly. And things should be a lot better given the tax revenue the exchequer has sucked out of us all over the past decade+.

MrJoeSoap

CJhaughey wrote:

Not Joe Soap paying over the odds for stamp duty

Hey! You leave me out of this!

Tomohawk

Originally Posted by Conor74
Not at all. I freely admit they have made some monumental ****ups, like e-voting and the current PPARS crisis. But I just keep remembering what it was like when any other Government was in - again particularly 82/87 - and I am firmly of the opionion that, while it's far from perfect, we've never had it so good.

Judging by your boards.ie profile details Conor74, (born 1974) this puts your age at the time between the ages of 8-13 years old. "On mature recollection", would you care to elaborate on your keen interest in politics for one so young at the time?

Is it the tax on childrens shoes thing again that is seared into you memory or what?

Tomohawk

Tomohawk wrote:

Is it the tax on childrens shoes thing again that is seared into you memory or what?

Pah, let them wear Clarke's...

As the youngest of 7, many of whom emigrated in the 80s, I remember that time well enough. And while I wasn't out earning a crust and am in no position to discuss tax rates etc. etc., I live in an area (rural SW of Ireland) where whole families bailed out, 6 and 7 brothers heading off to work in construction in NY. Noone can tell me there was anything good about that time.

I remember the strikes, the hospital closures, the complete absence of work, emigration, and of course those buzz words that seem to have disappeared from public consciousness, the National Debt. And maybe it was fortuitous, but when FF retook power in 1987, frankly things just gradually seemed to improve.

Despite the myriad crises, I also remember some pretty funky music and great clothes, but guess that's a matter for a different thread...