Permission to marry?

livEwirE

Hi all,

Hope you guys can help here...

I am asking my girlfriend to marry me when on hols in the med in December, what I want to know is should I first ask her father permission beforehand? Is this a done thing nowadays or has this sort of thing gone out of fashion. Her father is not particularly religious so I don't think its obligatory. It would be very awkward for me to get him on his own to ask this as well - suspicions may be raised by my gf and her family! I definately wouldn't like her mother to find out beforehand as she is useless at keeping secrets!

What do you guys think?

~livEwirE~

Red Alert

i don't believe that stuff is necessary anymore, although i've never been married so i can't be sure.

pdunno

I don't think you need to do that anymore! Anyway what if her father refused you permission to marry his daughter?? What would you do then? In this day and age the only person you need to ask is your partner

Pack3t3rroR

Nope i dont think you should or have to anymore. Just ask your G/F. Wish you all the best for the future

20 Times 20 Times

I do think you should ask ,if you want to do everything by the book and be really romantic it is the way to go i must admit . IF i ask someone to marry me i will ask her father first out of respect for him.

I mixed my words up there completely. Ask him out of repect of him been the head of the family, He will respect you for it and boost his ego .

Nevyn

When it comes to wedding it is funny ( well lt least to me ) the number of
very modren thinking, modren living people become very traditional.
Yes it is you life and your marriage but wedding tend to invovle the entire
family.

The most important person to ask is your intended.
If you are already in good term and know her family to the extent that you are
able to meet and approach her father on you own in a friendly fashion then
do so. It is good form, polite and tradiational.

But be prepared for him to be a bit startled, and for the tradional grilling maybe
on what are you plans where will you will live ect.

Maybe your best bet on this is to speak to a family member of your intended's
mother/sister/brother and find out how things are done in the family.

It is not asking permission to Marry strickly once you are over 18 you need
no ones permission but it is showing of respect or consideration to her family
and her parents as the head of her family.

Maybe you should approach both her Mam and Dad.

ven0m

livEwirE wrote:

Hi all,

Hope you guys can help here...

I am asking my girlfriend to marry me when on hols in the med in December, what I want to know is should I first ask her father permission beforehand? Is this a done thing nowadays or has this sort of thing gone out of fashion. Her father is not particularly religious so I don't think its obligatory. It would be very awkward for me to get him on his own to ask this as well - suspicions may be raised by my gf and her family! I definately wouldn't like her mother to find out beforehand as she is useless at keeping secrets!

What do you guys think?

~livEwirE~

Yeah you don;t "have" to do it anymore - but some women still like it & prospective in-laws like it too!!!!

::: ven0mous :::

dudara

You don't HAVE to do it, but I really would like to know that the man I'm going to marry is OK with my dad, the other most important man in my life. As a previous poster said, it just shows respect for her family. Her Dad can't stop you. but he will be delighted to be asked. A friend's sister recently got engaged, but the fiance prior to asking her, took her Dad to the pub for a "chat". It went down a storm with the Dad and the whole family.

Zillah

I think it'd be a great sign of respect if you asked her father beforehand. Don't make a huge "May I have your daughters hand" deal of it. Just tell him what you intend and that you felt you should ask him beforehand.

If he says no then tell him to fck off and do it anyway. But it won't come to that...

Dave

What would you do if he said "No!"?

savoyard

What do you think your girlfriend will think?

Some girls like the idea, others will hate it. I would have been really pissed off if my husband had asked my dad before asking me - I didn't need his approval to get married and it wasn't something I would have appreciated (my dad would have loved it ). I wanted to be the first person to know that he wanted to marry me.

Others I know thought it was a really sweet thing to do and yes, the parents tend to love it. The alternative, is to pop the question to her first and then "ask" the father before you announce it to the world...

Khannie

I did it. Only 2 years ago (almost exactly). Hated doing it, but he was really pleased that I did. I'd seriously recommend doing it. I think it's exactly like Thaed said: People get very traditional where weddings are concerned.

I'd also put it to you this way: Your intended wont be upset if you do ask, but might be upset if you don't. Same applies to her father.

Zillah

savoyard wrote:

Some girls like the idea, others will hate it. I would have been really pissed off if my husband had asked my dad before asking me

Khannie wrote:

Your intended wont be upset if you do ask, but might be upset if you don't.

Not neccessarily...

Khannie

Heh, didn't see that (it wasn't posted before I hit the reply button). Interesting. Wouldn't have thought it possible for the intended to be pissed off that her fathers permission had been asked. I will clearly never understand the fairer sex.

Reckon the chances of your partner being pissed off are fairly small though. I'm still strongly for it.

RainyDay

I think asking for permission sets a dangerous precedent. When your mother-in-law decides to invite her 300 cousins and their families to your wedding, you'll be kicking yourself that you didn't send out a clear message that you're going to do your own thing.

Zillah

RainyDay wrote:

I think asking for permission sets a dangerous precedent. When your mother-in-law decides to invite her 300 cousins and their families to your wedding, you'll be kicking yourself that you didn't send out a clear message that you're going to do your own thing.

I sense bitterness, and regret in your tone grasshopper... History is not doomed to repeat itself.

savoyard

Khannie wrote:

Wouldn't have thought it possible for the intended to be pissed off that her fathers permission had been asked. I will clearly never understand the fairer sex.

.

It's a tradition that has a woman's father and her future husband making a decision about her life, without even asking her opinion first. I get kind of snippy about those kind of traditions

Victor

A friend was told "no" last year.

---

The way I would like it to work.

The couple agree that they will get married - at some stage - "Where would we live if we got married?", "Do ye think we'll have kids?".

He tells the father / parents he will be asking her. Telling not asking

He asks her.

Zillah

savoyard wrote:

It's a tradition that has a woman's father and her future husband making a decision about her life, without even asking her opinion first. I get kind of snippy about those kind of traditions

Its actually a pretty horrible tradition now that I think of it. A woman was once considered the property of her father. Once she was married she became the property of her husband. (Love honor and obey...) Thats why you ask permission.

slumped

Hi

I proposed to herself and did not ask her Dad's permission. Reason was that she always said that when we got engaged, she wanted to tell them the good news herself.

She THEN said that I should ask him AFTER we got engaged and she had told them......

Anywhoos,

Should have just asked the man! He's a gent, real old school.

It all depends on their attitude. If the Dad is Old School then ask.

S

Gandhi

Ask him.

I did, and everyone thought it was really cool.

A bit nervy alright, but worth it.

iguana

Zillah wrote:

Its actually a pretty horrible tradition now that I think of it. A woman was once considered the property of her father. Once she was married she became the property of her husband. (Love honor and obey...) Thats why you ask permission.

That's my opinion on it. While I might not have been pissed off about it as I could recognise it was done with the best intention I would certainly rather it was not done. I am my own person, while I respect my dad's opinions I certainly don't need his permission to get married.

And I'm pretty sure my dad's response would've been "ask her yourself."

seamus

As others have said, it is still done nowadays, but only because you find a surprising amount of women who are completely traditional about wedding customs, despite not having gone to mass in years.

That's not to say it's required. If you're considering marrying someone then you should know how it'll go down. My gf for example, would be of the "I'll decide if I can get married" type, but would still consider it romantic/sweet/nice (cross out where necessary) if I asked her Dad. Other women may be offended. Some may not marry you if you don't ask her father (though I'd say thy're rare enough nowadays).

TBH, I'd say the best bet, if you're friendly with her parents, is to say it to both of them first. Don't necessarily ask for their permission, but tell them that you're going to ask her to marry you, and you'd like her parents' blessing before you went ahead. Again, this could depend on the relationship. I know my gf would appreciate me asking both her parents, not just the father, but other parents may be more traditional.

Khannie

Victor wrote:

A friend was told "no" last year.

:eek: :eek: :eek:

Wow, that's rough. Must admit I knew there wouldn't be any problems myself. If I had thought that, it would have been more of a "telling" than "asking".

What did your friend do? Any chance you think that'll happen OP?

Must admit I hadn't considered that it was because the womans opinion wasn't considered important. I think that part of it is completely outdated and that it's only really a sign of respect to the parents now. For example: I was a hell of a lot more nervous about asking my wife than her dad.

Shabadu

My family is quite Matriarchal. If my fiancé had asked my dad, I think he would have just laughed and looked confused. Not that my dad isn't highly bossy and stubborn, just the notion of someone asking him permission for my hand in marriage wouldn't sit well with any of us.

I think the whole notion is becoming obselete in the age of long-term relationships for some people. I've lived with the bf for years, we have a child. If my father didn't think he was right for me he would have voiced his opinion on the matter long ago.

Fast_Mover

I know if it were parents i dont think that they'd really mind if my fiancé didnt ask them but i know they really really would appreciate it if he did. they would find it as him being very genuine and honest. they'd think that by him asking them he has respect for them,which in turn he would show towards me. id b almost certain my father asked my mothers fathers for permisson to marry her..id b surprised if he didnt lik!

from my point of view i think i'd like if my fiance asked my father...i wouldnt think of it as being old-fashioned but having respect and courage..!

i really hope you ask her father (sure it myt b a story to tell the kids sometime when the electricity goes out!!hehe)...but it hard one to call as some girls/families may not be into that kinda thing!

good luck and let us no what u decide!

RainyDay

Zillah wrote:

I sense bitterness, and regret in your tone grasshopper... .

Not at all - Didn't ask for their permission first, but did share the good news with them. Didn't ask them about the wedding, until we had the venue picked & booked, but did invite them down to check it out beforehand. Didn't ask them for a handout before the wedding, but they did put a few quid into the kitty afterwards.

We involved them, but we weren't dependant on them.

sutty

hehe My sisters fella asked me when I movied in with them for a bit. I will also be giving my sister away at the wedding...

CathyMoran

I was engaged in the past, he had asked me first but it was not official to me until he had asked my dad. He asked me should he ask my dad, I told my dad that he was going to ask and then he asked. The poor guy was petrified even though my dad is lovely and he knew that my dad knew he was going to ask.

secret_squirrel

I personally would ask for the fathers blessing but not his permission beforehand. ie make it quite clear he has no choice but that you want to keep on his good side.

Zebra3

I think it's totally outdated and would never dream of doing it.

I think my sister would hit the roof if her b/f approached my father like that.

sceptre

livEwirE wrote:

I am asking my girlfriend to marry me when on hols in the med in December, what I want to know is should I first ask her father permission beforehand?

Only if you're currently living in a 1950s recreation house for a reality TV show.

I'd laugh if anyone suggested I ever do it. Laugh so much that I might forget what I was asking for (a hand (and the rest of your daughter too if you don't mind)). Like Victor said, ask her, tell him. To each his own though, if your intended has any strong views on the tradition it costs nothing in this particular case to acquiesce.

Bluehair

secret_squirrel wrote:

I personally would ask for the fathers blessing but not his permission beforehand. ie make it quite clear he has no choice but that you want to keep on his good side.

Was just scrolling down through the replies with the intention of posting exactly this advice.

Bollox to asking permission; it's not his call! But out of respect for the man I would have a chat beforehand and suggest that'd you'd love his blessing for the whole thing, after all you are taking away his little princess and he's inevitably gonna be your father in-law!! :eek:

angeldelight

My dad would just laugh if the guy I was going to marry asked him first, and my mum'd be really annoyed as she's very into women as equals etc so the poor guy would just put himself in her bad books and be laughed at by my father.

From my point of view, I'd rather he asked me and then I tell my parents. My parents opinion of him wouldn't make a difference to me tbh, they didn't like my last serious bf and I stayed with him for over a year. Even if they didn't like him they wouldn't make an issue of it and my dad wouldn't say no if asked for "my hand" in marriage so whats the point in asking??

bandraoi

in the books i've read - Jane Austen et al, which presumably are the experts on this tradition, the man secures the girls agreement first or at least a carefully phrased allusion to the fact that she won't say no and then asks her Father.

ie you should propose first and then personally go and tell her Father that you would like to marry his daughter and you believe she would like to marry you, (ie she said yes to your earlier proposal)

Come to think of it, I've come across this sequence of events in biographical books I've read too eg Aristocrats, by Stella Tillygard

The idea is not so much to ask his permission but to give her parents a chance to object before telling the rest of the world.

iguana

It has just occured to me that she may also be disappointed that she won't get to announce it to them. The best thing imo is to propose to her and then see if she wants you to ask him or for you two to do it together. (Or perhaps she may want to tell them herself)

funk-you

it may be out-dated but it is only a mark of respect to the family, if my brother in law hadn't of asked my dad first i would also have been quite offended just because the gesture wasnt made.

in this day and age you're not actually asking the man can you have his daughter, you're simply showing that you have respect for him and will show the same respect to his daughter.

also, it has nothing to do with equal rights or owning women, remember you are going to be the next most important man next to him in his daughters eyes and should just have the same respect for him that she does. if you both want to get married you're gonna do it no matter what he says.

i plan on doing it when i marry my girlfriend and would want my future daughters prospective husband to do the same. and i'm quite possibly the least traditional man out there-getting married by an Elvis impersonator in vegas on the honeymoon after she has her day with the church and dress etc... i would do my idea first but a lot of women have their special day planned out long before you ask and i couldn't take that away from her.

just feed the mans ego and show your respects.

Illegal Alien

You don't have to do anything, but I think it shows great respect for your gf and her father and familly if you did ask. If you didnt do it, it wouldnt be a big deal, but if you did, it's a great show of character.

Also, im sure your GF would appreciate it.

AndyWarhol

livEwirE wrote:

Hi all,

Hope you guys can help here...

I am asking my girlfriend to marry me when on hols in the med in December, what I want to know is should I first ask her father permission beforehand? Is this a done thing nowadays or has this sort of thing gone out of fashion. Her father is not particularly religious so I don't think its obligatory. It would be very awkward for me to get him on his own to ask this as well - suspicions may be raised by my gf and her family! I definately wouldn't like her mother to find out beforehand as she is useless at keeping secrets!

What do you guys think?

~livEwirE~

DeBrett's guide to modern etiquette and manners is the definitive source to every social eventuality you can think of.

Try Hodges Figges.

link

galwaydude

I asked my GF's dads permission a month ago and he was totaly cool about it.I think its done out of respect. I highly doubt that he would say no as someone else sugested unless he has ongoing concerns about you, why would he say no. Anyways my GF said it would be a nice thing to do and you may get some browny points with the inlaws and that can come in handy.

By the way congratuations, only 3 months to go so get planning the proposal.

secret_squirrel

Zebra3 wrote:

I think it's totally outdated

Thats half the point though .. a lot of parents would be outdated by our standards, asking for their blessing costs us very little and could make the future dad-in-law happy. Therefore why not do it?

nesf

It's a mark of respect. Some will appreciate it, some won't. You should know them enough to be able to guage it. If you don't know them that well, ask the gf first and then run it past her on the best way to approach her parents with the news.

I do agree that it should be their blessing that should be asked for and not their permission.

bandraoi

First Duty Of The Accepted Suitor

If a young man and his parents are very close friends it is more than likely he will already have told them of the seriousness of his intentions. Very possibly he has asked his father's financial assistance, or at least discussed ways and means, but as soon as he and she have definitely made up their minds that they want to marry each other, it is the immediate duty of the man to go to the girl's father or her guardian, and ask his consent. If her father refuses, the engagement cannot exist. The man must then try, through work or other proof of stability and seriousness, to win the father's approval. Failing in that, the young woman is faced with dismissing him or marrying in opposition to her parents. There are, of course, unreasonable and obdurate parents, but it is needless to point out that a young woman assumes a very great risk who takes her future into her own hands and elopes. But even so, there is no excuse for the most unfilial act of all—deception. The honorable young woman who has made up her mind to marry in spite of her parents' disapproval, announces to them, if she can, that on such and such a day her wedding will take place. If this is impossible, she at least refuses to give her word that she will not marry. The height of dishonor is to "give her word" and then break it.

from a 1922 book of etiquette - http://www.gutenberg.org/files/14314/14314-h/14314-h.htm #Page_299

you ask the girl first, then ask her father, not the other way around

Draupnir

to be honest, I would do it. But I wouldnt just ask her father. I would ask both her parents at the same time.

dramaqueen

I really think you should ask your girlfriend first, then ask both her parents for their blessing. I know it's an old fashioned kind of thing to do, but most parents are old-fashioned when it comes to their kids.

Ruu_Old

bandraoi wrote:

in the books i've read - Jane Austen et al, which presumably are the experts on this tradition, the man secures the girls agreement first or at least a carefully phrased allusion to the fact that she won't say no and then asks her Father.

ie you should propose first and then personally go and tell her Father that you would like to marry his daughter and you believe she would like to marry you, (ie she said yes to your earlier proposal)

Come to think of it, I've come across this sequence of events in biographical books I've read too eg Aristocrats, by Stella Tillygard

The idea is not so much to ask his permission but to give her parents a chance to object before telling the rest of the world.

Didnt one of the guys in Jane Austen, write a letter of proposal to his significant other? A LETTER!?!

My wife and i thought the asking for permission thing was a bit old, but if you feel comfortable doing it and its important to you or your fiancee, then best of luck to you and best of luck in the future

The Corinthian

Ask her first before anything; you'd look a fool if he gave permission and then she either asked for time to consider or turned you down - not to mention what she would think of you considering her father's opinion before hers.

However, I'm of the school of thought that would, although I would probably phrase it by expressing my intention to marry or ask for his blessing rather than asking for explicit permission. Just in case.

As has been said, when you marry someone you become part of their family. So it's understandable that they would want to be asked this first, even if it is only a formality.

bandraoi

It's about politeness, as soon as both of you have decided to marry the first people you tell are her parents. The presumption being that the other important parental units probably know that you were planning to propose anyway.

The boy goes in and tells her father.
She goes in and tells her mother.

At that point they both either throw a hissy fit or welcome the new member of the family.

It's not really old fashioned, it's more common courtesy to let your parents know first so that they don't find out from anyone else.

Victor

Ruu wrote:

Didnt one of the guys in Jane Austen, write a letter of proposal to his significant other? A LETTER!?!

It was not uncommon for whole realtionships to be largely based on letters.

gercoleman

dont be silly after all this is2005 not 1905. good luck hope she says yes.

Ruu_Old

Victor wrote:

It was not uncommon for whole realtionships to be largely based on letters.

i know they were all chicken back then...not like guys are now...all up front and...brave :rolleyes: