Learner Drivers- Love or Hate em?

FoXXy

I've in the last week gotten myself a shiny new car and i've gone through all the formalities involved i.ie- getting my provisional licence, taxing and insuring the car.. now for the fun bit, to risk myself and the car on the open road!

Learning to drive is scary in its own right and everyone keeps telling me it comes with practice- that you should only worry about urself when ur on the road. My answer to this so far has been that its hard to watch my driving when the car behind me is either riding my bumper or is beeping because i stalled at the lights!?

So my question.. as a learning or experienced driver how much leeway do u allow learner drivers? do you drive at safe distance behind and allow them to make mistakes or do u ignore them and go mental when they mess up?!

Thumper Long

well opening myself up for a flaming. i believe that provisional drivers should only be allowed on the road with a fully licenced driver at all times and only when you are competent at controlling the car. there are thousands of car parks and other open spaces in this country where you can learn to drive and learn to control your car. you should have all your stalling and bunny hops out of the way before you take to the open roads, i realise that you have a shiny new car and the temptation is there to go out and drive it on the open roads, but if you are still stalling and bunny hopping down the road then you are not ready, and dont confuse someone with riding your bumper with someone who is quite happy and confident not to leave a country mile between their bonnet and the car in front. Hopfully you are not of the bunny hopping ilk and are a competent and responsible driver

FoXXy

well yup i went through the whole routine of using the car parks and had my friends and parents takin me out in their cars and getting me used to things. have to say i did my first bunny hop thingy today.. wasnt liking it one bit lol.
i'm not so bad on the road, i picked it up really quickly altho i get SERIOUSLY nervous. i tend to have someone in the car with me, i've only been out twice on my own in it and that was only for a 2 mins journey down the road to collect my driver
i dont think your right tho about getting all the mistakes out of the way off- road. theres only so much u can learn in a car park. theres no lights, no roundabouts, no pedestrians... alot more distractions on the road!

IrishRover

FoXXy wrote:

everyone keeps telling me it comes with practice- that you should only worry about urself when ur on the road.

Maybe this was meant in a different context, but I don't think this is good advice to anyone learning to drive. Good driving is about being at all times aware of what's happening all around you and what might happen in the next few seconds.

When you have learnt the mechanics of driving that's only the start and you can learn this without having to go on a public road. Observation, awareness and anticipation skills are what you need to develop on top of this. The actual controlling of the vechicle should become second nature for you, so that none of your concentration should be spent on how to change gear or steer, and all of it on what's actually happening on the road.

You don't have to be driving to develop these skills. Any time you are a passenger in a car you can watch the traffic around you and how the driver interacts with the rest of the traffic. If they are an experienced driver you can improve your skills a lot by closely watching how they drive and how they control their car.

Thumper Long

FoXXy wrote:

i dont think your right tho about getting all the mistakes out of the way off- road. theres only so much u can learn in a car park. theres no lights, no roundabouts, no pedestrians... alot more distractions on the road!

you will never be able to get all the mistakes out of the way as you do need to practice in a real driving environment, but you shoul at least be proficient with the control of the car, so no bunny hops and no stalling

murphaph

Everyone has to learn sometime, but I totally agree that all stalling etc. should be ironed out in an 'off public road' environment.

I also believe that everyone should take some lessons with a registered driving instructor (when are we getting testing for these guys again???) and only head out on the road with a 'regular' fully licenced driver and a competent one at that thereafter. In the UK this driver must be over 21 (and there are conditions about points on their licence I think too), what's the age here?

Now, we live in Ireland-the wait time for the test is unreasonable, so everything in context I suppose.

_Kaiser_

Buy an automatic - they don't stall

Everyone has to start somewhere though, and some of the things I've seen so-called "experienced" drivers do on the road would make you wonder who needs the supervision! :rolleyes:

Use of indicators, obeying speed limits and common courtesy on the roads.. all things sadly lacking from many Irish motorists

BrianD3

Have you had any professional lessons? If you must break the law and drive unaccompanied then at least get some lessons with a recognised driving school like ISM. Getting informal lessons from family members is a bad idea as family members generally don't have a bloody clue how to teach driving.

Stark

murphaph wrote:

Everyone has to learn sometime, but I totally agree that all stalling etc. should be ironed out in an 'off public road' environment.

All well and good, but most learner drivers stall because they're nervous. Working out the technique in a parking lot is fine, but learning how to start the car smoothly and confidently in a heated traffic situation takes another level of skill.

Definitely a learner driver should start out by doing a few lessons and practicing in parking lots but it would be very hypocritical for anyone here to say that a learner driver shouldn't be allowed on the road full stop.

Our man in Havana

What Pisses me off is that when you come up behind one they just freeze and stop. Frustrating.

Shrimp

There are two kinds of learner drivers:

Those who are unnecessarily timid and those who are over confident. Both of whom are equally annoying.

tabatha

i dont think that any provisional drivers should be allowed on the road. what is it about this country that people think its ok to drive when you dont know how? is there any other country that allows this?

stevenmu

I tend to give L drivers as much space as I can, a lot of them, like yourself, seem capable of basic driving but get a bit panicy when under pressure, so it's best (for everyone's sake) to not put them under any.

FoXXy wrote:

that you should only worry about urself when ur on the road.

This is kind of true starting off, just do things at your own pace and pretty much ignore what others want you to do. In theory, if you follow the rules of the road and do everything ok, you'll be fine. That only works in theory though as there's too many others out there who don't, so as you get more and more comfortable with your car you have to put more and more of your focus into avoiding them. In this country the real skilled drivers are the ones who can spot some idiot and what they're about to do, before they actually do it, and get out of the way.

69 mustang

Just a quick side point look a the L's on some learner car's.
as I often think If your not clever enough to put the L the right way around what chance are you going to have driving. _| ¬ .And the ones that won't spend 99c on one and make there own are class.

Stark

tabatha wrote:

i dont think that any provisional drivers should be allowed on the road. what is it about this country that people think its ok to drive when you dont know how? is there any other country that allows this?

Just out of interest, how did you learn to drive before passing your test?

There are plenty of other countries that allow learner drivers on the road. Those that don't have much shorter test waiting times than us and have better driving schools. I wouldn't consider someone who got their licence after only driving school fully qualified to drive though. Everyone's got to start somewhere, it's a Catch-22, you can't be fully qualified to drive on roads unless you've actually driven on roads before. The only major problem with the current situation in Ireland is the rediculous waiting time for a test.

My advice to Foxxy is that the best thing you can do is relax. Take baby steps, make sure you've someone you trust in the car with you and keep to the easy roads at first. It'll feel like absolute hell at first because skills haven't been ingrained yet and you have to conciously think about every little thing (and there really is a hell of a lot of things to think about). But after time little things like control over gears, pedals, steering etc. will become absolutely second nature and you can concentrate more on what's happening around you and thinking your way out of tight situations and the like.

kjt

Shrimp wrote:

There are two kinds of learner drivers:

Those who are unnecessarily timid and those who are over confident. Both of whom are equally annoying.

lol how can you say that Shrimp?
Do you drive?... and if so you cant be driving that long
on the road legally

I find learners can be a bit annoying but we were all there once and I've only had my license a year. I will always give a driver plenty of space and never do anything that will make them more nervous/under pressure.

We all had to learn once.

Sarn

Just from my own observation a lot of learner drivers that I know don't actually have their L plates up. When asked, most comment on how certain fully licensed drivers will do anything to get ahead of an L-plate driver causing dangerous situations regardless of how well they're driving.

I give learner drivers lee way, we all have to learn at some time. A few lessons and practice on quiet roads beforehand is highly recommended. As pointed out above you have to venture onto busy roads at some point, don't get flustered, it becomes second nature after a while.

It's the supposed fully qualified drivers that drive badly that wreck my head.

69 mustang

69 mustang wrote:

Just a quick side point look a the L's on some learner car's.
as I often think If your not clever enough to put the L the right way around what chance are you going to have driving. _| ¬ .And the ones that won't spend 99c on one and make there own are class.

O and to add to that trimming the square off your L plate only let people know that you have been on L's for some time and are embarrassed you keep failing. Also you friendly local Garda will class it as if you had not got one.

jayok

FoXXy wrote:

So my question.. as a learning or experienced driver how much leeway do u allow learner drivers? do you drive at safe distance behind and allow them to make mistakes or do u ignore them and go mental when they mess up?!

I'm sorry FoXXy but there are an awful lot of full-licensed gob****es out there from all classes of society who seem to think that "L" plates drivers are people to be targetted as if some sort of "look at me, I passed my test and I'm better than you" mentality. However, please ignore these idiots as these are the people that you will see do the stupid things when you do pass your test.

I typically see a learner drivers in front of me as generally they are getting to grips with the car, traffic and incredible amount of information avaiable for processing. Normally I will catch up on them in the flow of traffic but I always maintain a relatively large distance between myself and them. This is not because I am concerned about the driver, but when I see an "L" plate I expect mistakes. This expection is not to belittle a learner but simply that "L" drivers are that learning. I would never lose the rag with an "L" plate driver if he/she stalls or fails to make a changing traffic light or anything like that - unfortnately this not the case for every driver.

Once thing I do when approaching a "L" driver is to move out to the centre line as if putting myself in an overtaking position but not with the closeness to the car in front kind of overtaking. Three reasons for this

1. It gives me the opportunity to see in front of the "L" car an interpret the road for myself

2. Protects wannbe muppets from trying to overtake me and the "L" driver.

3. If it is safe and clear to do so and does NOT threaten the "L" driver, I am then ready to perform a flying pass overtaking maneveour.

I have done this on many occassions and indeed have been waved "thanks" by instructors for doing so.

Anyhow, best of luck with the learner and don't let muppets stress you.

Shrimp

kjt wrote:

lol how can you say that Shrimp?
Do you drive?... and if so you cant be driving that long
on the road legally

I find learners can be a bit annoying but we were all there once and I've only had my license a year. I will always give a driver plenty of space and never do anything that will make them more nervous/under pressure.

We all had to learn once.

Why are you taking a tone with me as if you are annoyed with what I have said. Of course there are a few Learners who are grand.

kjt

Sorry if it came across the wrong way shrimp. Didnt mean it to.

cregser

Just learning myself aswell. On a quiet industrial estate road I've been practising on I've found about 40% of drivers hang back and let me do my own thing, 50% over take me when it's safe, and 10% are either tick or a--holes.

I tend to stall whenever something new happens - like when I'm accelerating onto the roundabout and someone appears on my left and just tears onto it, or when you look in you rear mirror and see G A R D A :eek:

unkel

IrishRover wrote:

Maybe this was meant in a different context, but I don't think this is good advice to anyone learning to drive. Good driving is about being at all times aware of what's happening all around you and what might happen in the next few seconds.

When you have learnt the mechanics of driving that's only the start and you can learn this without having to go on a public road. Observation, awareness and anticipation skills are what you need to develop on top of this. The actual controlling of the vechicle should become second nature for you, so that none of your concentration should be spent on how to change gear or steer, and all of it on what's actually happening on the road.

You don't have to be driving to develop these skills. Any time you are a passenger in a car you can watch the traffic around you and how the driver interacts with the rest of the traffic. If they are an experienced driver you can improve your skills a lot by closely watching how they drive and how they control their car.

Excellent contribution. One should only drive a vehicle when the mechanics of driving are fully automatic and natural and nearly 100% of attention is reserved for anticipation!

Stark wrote:

There are plenty of other countries that allow learner drivers on the road

No there aren't and there shouldn't. The system should be changed asap to only let fully licensed drivers out there on their own. Without a full license, a driver should only be on the road with a licensed and fully qualified driving instructor in a fully dual-control test vehicle imho

I agree that the waiting period for a driving test needs to be reduced to weeks rather than months for this to be viable

Creamy Goodness

i've just started to learn aswell, and after a failed test i might add.

i'm what i'd say an okay driver but i do have things that i need to improve.

my main fear (well it's not really a fear) is what others are doing, i think that's the most important thing whilst out on the road.

i've never really noticed other drivers giving me space or leeway on the road but that's probably more to the reason that i pay more attention to my driving.

on the other hand my mum (whose car i'm learning in) says that anytime she's out in the car she notices that people stop and let her out at junctions and stuff like that, so she wants to keep the L plates up as long as possible

Big Nelly

Kaiser2000 wrote:

Buy an automatic - they don't stall

Everyone has to start somewhere though, and some of the things I've seen so-called "experienced" drivers do on the road would make you wonder who needs the supervision! :rolleyes:

Use of indicators, obeying speed limits and common courtesy on the roads.. all things sadly lacking from many Irish motorists

Buy an automatic! go nowhere fast!! driving Miss Daisy job! also your one to talk about indicators.....3 roundabouts and not one using the correct indicator!!! terrible......lol

Anyway talking about leaner drivers....was coming back to Dublin yesterday morning early! around 10! and a learner driver with instructor in front of me.....so stayed well back and let her bang away with trying to drive....think it was her first/second time out because constant stalling and 2 mins to restart but I wasnt in any rush so let her bang away.....anyway came to lights and she was taking a right and I was going straight ahead......there was one car in front of me....anyway lights go green.....can see her trying to get in gear and so on and instructor telling her what to do.....anyway sh*thead in front decides to pass her out and pull in front of her while she is taking the right turn.....he was taking the turn as well.....so she finally gets in gear and so on and takes off and next thing this gobsh*t black man is right beside her and she has to jam on to stop going head first into her.....guess whats.....he starts blowing horn and drives on......f**king joke......*****r prob had no insurance and the usually....these f**ks should be thrown off the road and not the learner drivers.......also I aint racist before you start but this is the usual crap I see from balcks/latvians/any of those eastern european countries and f**k all is bring done to stop it!!

Enygma

All the license means is that you drove reasonably well for approximately 15 minutes under observation. I've known people who are afraid to drive in the city or on dual carriageways get their full license while wholly competent drivers fail on a technicality.

A lot of L drivers are actually better than a lot of "qualified" drivers because they're more aware of the rules of the road. Take ten random "qualified" drivers and make them sit the test and I bet almost anything you'll see ten failures. That'd make an interesting TV show actually.

Some cars with L plates aren't being driven by learners either, maybe their partner/child is learning in that car.

Judging how good a driver someone is by a sticker on the rear window is really just stupid and ignorant. Judge them on how well they drive.

I recently drove my girlfriends car (which has L plates) and the difference in attitudes from other road users is astonishing. People driving two feet from your bumper, flashing and beeping at you. One almost forced me off the road when I clearly had right of way!

Enygma

Actually I've seen some crazy/suicidal driving by Latvians and Poles.

A friend of mine goes to Poland regularly and says the standard of driving there is frightening. I've never seen any Africans driving like lunatics.

Big Nelly

Enygma wrote:

Actually I've seen some crazy/suicidal driving by Latvians and Poles.

A friend of mine goes to Poland regularly and says the standard of driving there is frightening. I've never seen any Africans driving like lunatics.

Africans dont drive like lunatics....they drive slowly but havent a f**ks notion of the rules of the road or anything.....everything is a game to them and it doesnt matter if they cream you out of it because 9 times out of 10 they have no insurance/no tax or nothing so you can try and follow them up but they just move address and you have nothing.....as I mentioned above from all the driving I have seen this is a regular occurance from African(guess this is the right PR term) drivers........

Just one example friend here telling me.....her mate was coming off M50 at Blanch turn off about 2-3 in morning...was coming up off M50 and this chinese girl with no lights or nothing just showed up in front of car on bike......hit the brakes but ended up hitting here......bike done aload of damage to car.....but luckly nobody was hurt....anyway she got chinese girl and put her into car and brought her to Blanch hospital for check up.....left bike there....when she arrived in hospital rang cops and they showed up after checking crash sceen....said it was chinese girls fault and she would have to pay for damages....anyway took both statements....as Garda was leaving mate asked what was the story now.....Garda said they would follow up but off the record there was f**k all they could do because address would be bogus in 2-3 days because she would move on and they wouldnt be able to follow so told her for easier sake just claim off her own insurance......

Sesshoumaru

Big Nelly wrote:

Africans dont drive like lunatics....they drive slowly but havent a f**ks notion of the rules of the road or anything.....everything is a game to them and it doesnt matter if they cream you out of it because 9 times out of 10 they have no insurance/no tax or nothing so you can try and follow them up but they just move address and you have nothing.....as I mentioned above from all the driving I have seen this is a regular occurance from African(guess this is the right PR term) drivers........

Just one example friend here telling me.....her mate was coming off M50 at Blanch turn off about 2-3 in morning...was coming up off M50 and this chinese girl with no lights or nothing just showed up in front of car on bike......hit the brakes but ended up hitting here......bike done aload of damage to car.....but luckly nobody was hurt....anyway she got chinese girl and put her into car and brought her to Blanch hospital for check up.....left bike there....when she arrived in hospital rang cops and they showed up after checking crash sceen....said it was chinese girls fault and she would have to pay for damages....anyway took both statements....as Garda was leaving mate asked what was the story now.....Garda said they would follow up but off the record there was f**k all they could do because address would be bogus in 2-3 days because she would move on and they wouldnt be able to follow so told her for easier sake just claim off her own insurance......

What does it matter if it was a chinese girl or african man or some guy from poland? You seem to be implying that this kind of driving would not be expected from an irish person? and we all know thats not true! Irish drivers are terrible. Every story you mentioned would be equally believable with an irish motorist as the "bad guy". So its totally pointless to be singling out any other race or nationality for critiscism.

Just a little story of my own. I once rear ended a Skoda Octavia from Poland. No damage done to the Skoda and only very minor cosmetic damage done to the front of my own car. It was low speed in dublin city traffic in the morning. The Polish lady got out of her car. Looked at the bumper and said thats fines there is no damage and drove off. How many Irish drivers would that? A more likely outcome would have been a series of expletives sent my way followed by threats of taking me to court etc etc. We all know what kind of opportunistic scum inhabit our society. As every Irish person "knows" its only the insurance companies that take the hit right? lol Any excuse to claim some compensation.

prospect

Shrimp wrote:

There are two kinds of learner drivers:

Those who are unnecessarily timid and those who are over confident. Both of whom are equally annoying.

CLASS

A sort of "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation

el Bastardo

What a rotten story. Almost no one here cycles with lights on at night (are they expensive?). Must say, I've noticed the same with the clueless Africans and the Eastern Europeans macho men driving around Cork City - not to mention the clueless Irish drivers.

I never noticed any eejits trying to 'take me out' when I was a learner driver (passed 2002). Wish I could say the same now.

Sleipnir

We're all learner drivers all of the time.

69 mustang

Enygma wrote:

Actually I've seen some crazy/suicidal driving by Latvians and Poles.

A friend of mine goes to Poland regularly and says the standard of driving there is frightening. I've never seen any Africans driving like lunatics.

I have lots of them. The difference is when the Eastern guys do it its skillfully dangerous and you've got to remember they are left hand drive which is not easy on our roads.
But the Africans can surprise the best of us saw one driving down a footpath all 4 wheels on at a school then passed a cop car and yes he got her.
But I'd put most of them down as just not knowing the European rules. Am glad the written test came in.

69 mustang

Enygma wrote:

[Judging how good a driver someone is by a sticker on the rear window is really just stupid and ignorant. Judge them on how well they drive.]

I agreed with all your points but knocking hummer is just stupid and ignorant.

Big Nelly

Sesshoumaru wrote:

I once rear ended a Skoda Octavia from Poland.

So your making the point that not only crap drivers are from Africa/Poland because you are? also your point makes no sense....just becasue you decided to drive into someone and they said f**k all to you you think they are good drivers? sure the only reason she prob said nothing was because she had no tax/insurance and if she had to follow you up then it would mean more trouble for her........also I have seen before plenty of Irish driver leave something if no damage done to there car.....one such thing was a friend of mine, girl, hit some ice and end up hitting this car.....no damage to his.....she hit tow bar on his car but she broke off bumper on his.....he got out....made sure she was ok.....she was about to give insurance and he said no point and went on his way......doesnt matter who or where someone if from....if you hit them and they want to be a *****r then they will be!!

Anyway read back....was making a point that I see alot of this from African/Eastern European drivers and f**k all is been done about it.....I never said that Irish drivers are angels....I know the short comings of Irish drivers and have seen this at first hand....the cases I mention are the most recent I have seen on the road....I drive alot on the N3 and if you want to see bad driving take a trip down that road and it aint just African/Europen.....we have all races and they are all over the shop!! its multi cutural crap driving!!

iregk

I think learner drivers get far too much stick on the roads. Drivers in Ireland are arrogant in general and we tend to forget that we were all once learner drivers. As soon as the test is passed and the L's come off we tend to forget all about them and start cursing L drivers.

Having said that I think the driving situation in this country is woeful. I'm all for 3 levels of driving. P, L and Full. Basically I think the P (provisional) plates should be done as an extra curricular part of the leaving cert. Anyone who does the leaving cert learns about the rules of the road and general driving manner. Written test as well. After getting your P plate you should not be allowed on the road without a fully qualified driver.

After say 6months as a P you move onto an L plate where by now you should be competent to drive on your own while you wait for your test to come up. Pass your test and your a fully qualified driver.

I also think the driving test should be made harder. Its a joke! My hill start wasn't even on a hill!!!! It is far too easy in my opinion and should be more consistent, however that’s a whole other days argument.

As well as all that I also think there should be grading of cars as there is in bikes. Have to drive a 125cc for 2 years before anything else. Makes perfect sense so why not with cars? I know insurance companies say they wont quite a 19y/o on anything over a 1.4 but what’s to stop them putting an exhaust, induction kit, sports rom etc... into a 1.4? Police need to come down heavily on this type of thing and keep inexperienced drivers out of cars that are too powerful for them. Get a car and up to say 23 or 25 you have to stick to a certain power output. Go over that and you loose your licence. How many times have you heard on the news single car crash. In other words horsing it over a windy road and lost it!

That’s my 2 cents anyway (suddenly with the euro that doesn't sound so american anymore) take it or leave as you see fit.

yom 1

I had my very first lesson last saturday and I think it went very well. I was very nervous about it but my instructor put me completely at ease. I only stalled the car twice - once was at the very start so understandable, but the only other time was as I was approaching a roundabout. There was a car right up my arse, as he had been for about a minute at this stage, and I felt under alot of pressure to get it right. But nervousness took over and I stalled, which made me feel crap because I thought I had been doing well.

My point is simply that I would have been fine in this situation(at a roundabout as I had been through 3 already) if he hadn't stuck his car up my arse and in doing so make me feel very uncomfortable and nervous. I just think it is stupid to put a learner driver under this type of pressure as it well inevitably cause the learner driver to make mistakes which could cause accidents

FoXXy

cregser wrote:

I tend to stall whenever something new happens - like when I'm accelerating onto the roundabout and someone appears on my left and just tears onto it, or when you look in you rear mirror and see G A R D A :eek:

hehehe yup thats my thing too.. its cos u havent got time to think bout wot ur sposed to b doing! my newest thing tho is when i'm approaching lights and jus as ur dropping gears they go green so i get all confuddled wit wot gear i'm sposed to b at! apart from that i think i got the jist of it

FoXXy

Stark wrote:

All well and good, but most learner drivers stall because they're nervous. Working out the technique in a parking lot is fine, but learning how to start the car smoothly and confidently in a heated traffic situation takes another level of skill.

this seems to be the one place im going wrong hence being told to only think of myself on the road only in the sense that if i watch wot some guy is doing on my bumper i'll only mess up. i was told that if my cars hit from behind it their fault insurance wise so... in the end they's only gonna end up doing themselves damage.

to make sure i had it right tho, i took another lesson wit my instructor on the road, n he sed i was doing great, i have a grasp of everything.. jus need to work on the nerves n thats it

vibe666

Stark wrote:

There are plenty of other countries that allow learner drivers on the road.

er, no there isn't. well, with the possible exception of the odd place like india and maybe bangladesh.

I'm originally from the UK, and whenever I tell any non-irish visitors that learners are allowed on the roads unaccompanied they tend to just stare at me in disbelief.

I have plenty of experience driving (12 years driving in 7 different countries), and of learners as my girlfriend is currently learning with a combination of me taking her out and a professional driving instructor to teach her the proper way of doing things on the irish roads that I might not be 100% on the absolute correctness of what to do as the law stands today in Ireland (there's plenty of things me and her instructor disagree on, but that's another story).

Generally though, I'm confident in saying that the general level of driving skill in Ireland is absolutely abysmal compared to other european countries, and it's by no means restricted to learners at all. I've spoken to plenty of people with similar driving experience to myself and my opinion is generally shared by those with plenty of driving experience.

the level of ignorance and disdain towards fellow road users in Ireland is totally unequalled in my experience even by places like Londan, and I'd take 2 hours of driving in the London rush hour over one hour here any day.

Driving with my g/f only enforces this opinion, as she gets beeped at, cut up and tailgated by all and sundry, and I swear to god the next person that does it and stops at the lights behind us is going to have to deal with me getting out and watch al 6'5" and 21st of me take their keys out of the car and throw them in the nearest ditch before beating them to a bloody pulp.

[/vent]

69 mustang

Anyway read back....was making a point that I see alot of this from African/Eastern European drivers and f**k all is been done about it.....I never said that Irish drivers are angels....I know the short comings of Irish drivers and have seen this at first hand....the cases I mention are the most recent I have seen on the road....I drive alot on the N3 and if you want to see bad driving take a trip down that road and it aint just African/Europen.....we have all races and they are all over the shop!! its multi cutural crap driving!![/QUOTE]

I to would give plenty of leeway to L drivers, just as I would to someone on a mobile while driving.
the cars I'm Most scared of on Irish roads and I know some of you may not like this and I'm not going to go into. Is MH reg Toyota Corollas you just never know what they are going to do and they seem to want to recreate there European holiday by always driving on the right hand lane on the first dual road they find.Which is my next point why the N3 has so many speed cameras I've never seen one of those cars do more than 45mph.

Try this experiment before you knock this.

{I've noticed the worst insult to give a person sitting at the wheel is to tell them they are bad at it. try that one too with a friend }

Sesshoumaru

Big Nelly wrote:

So your making the point that not only crap drivers are from Africa/Poland because you are? also your point makes no sense....just becasue you decided to drive into someone and they said f**k all to you you think they are good drivers? sure the only reason she prob said nothing was because she had no tax/insurance and if she had to follow you up then it would mean more trouble for her........also I have seen before plenty of Irish driver leave something if no damage done to there car.....one such thing was a friend of mine, girl, hit some ice and end up hitting this car.....no damage to his.....she hit tow bar on his car but she broke off bumper on his.....he got out....made sure she was ok.....she was about to give insurance and he said no point and went on his way......doesnt matter who or where someone if from....if you hit them and they want to be a *****r then they will be!!

Anyway read back....was making a point that I see alot of this from African/Eastern European drivers and f**k all is been done about it.....I never said that Irish drivers are angels....I know the short comings of Irish drivers and have seen this at first hand....the cases I mention are the most recent I have seen on the road....I drive alot on the N3 and if you want to see bad driving take a trip down that road and it aint just African/Europen.....we have all races and they are all over the shop!! its multi cutural crap driving!!

No my point was that stereotyping is stupid. Bad drivers are simply bad drivers. There is no logical reason to bring race or nationality into equation at all. If the law is enforced equally and effectively then regardless of nationality or race there won't be a problem. Complain about the Gardai not enforcing traffic legislation and creating an atmosphere of lawnessless on our roads or complain about our politicians who don't seem to have the willpower to sort out our licencing system. But its very counter productive to start labelling any particular group as particularly bad drivers. In my eyes this is an enforcement issue.

Supercell

The main problem here is the waiting time for sitting the test.
Until this becomes weeks or days (or no wait in some EU countries) then we wil have ppl on the road that shouldnt be as they have to wait an unreasonable long time to be tested ..as do the bad drivers...

Slutmonkey57b

Learner drivers AREN'T allowed on the roads without a qualified driver in Ireland - it's just as against the law here as it is in any other country.

The difference is that Irish people couldn't give a **** about the law, or the rules of the road, and do it anyway. And having taken my second driving lesson today, I have to say that the standard of driving from "experienced" drivers and even driving instructors is appalling. I must have gone through about 20 roundabouts during a 2 hour lesson. In all that time 4 (FOUR) fully-qualified drivers actually bothered to indicate their intentions on the roundabout. And this is large, busy roundabouts off the N11, not a pissant painted jobbie. THREE times I had to correct my driving instructor who wanted me to pull out onto the roundabout in front of oncoming traffic. Appalling.

I'm fully in favour of re-testing all drivers at 5 year intervals. I predict we'd see a lot of red faces.

Supercell

Slutmonkey57b wrote:

And having taken my second driving lesson today, I have to say that the standard of driving from "experienced" drivers and even driving instructors is appalling.

You're a really quick learner!! during the second lesson you were correcting everyone else on the road including your instructor! , wish I found it so easy !! :rolleyes:

d4r3n

Slutmonkey57b wrote:

Learner drivers AREN'T allowed on the roads without a qualified driver in Ireland - it's just as against the law here as it is in any other country.

WRONG! You can drive alone on your second provisional.

Slutmonkey57b

I didn't say I was a good driver did I? But if a crap learner driver can pick up on minor things like "use your indicator" and "don't drive in front of another car" then it reflects the true state of drivers in this country, don't you think?

KeRbDoG

FoXXy wrote:

I've in the last week gotten myself a shiny new car and i've gone through all the formalities involved i.ie- getting my provisional licence, taxing and insuring the car.. now for the fun bit, to risk myself and the car on the open road!

Learning to drive is scary in its own right and everyone keeps telling me it comes with practice- that you should only worry about urself when ur on the road. My answer to this so far has been that its hard to watch my driving when the car behind me is either riding my bumper or is beeping because i stalled at the lights!?

So my question.. as a learning or experienced driver how much leeway do u allow learner drivers? do you drive at safe distance behind and allow them to make mistakes or do u ignore them and go mental when they mess up?!

We where all learners at one stage in our lifes. I give a learner lots of time and space as I too was once that person Every car Ive ever seen with an L plate has indicated and changed lane correctly - though slowly.
The so called "experanced" drivers do a kind of drift changing lanes, indicators are optional extras. Yes, your meant to use indicators on roundabouts and over taking someone for the sake of it and slowing down on front of them is just feckin annoying!

OLDYELLAR

Love them , Im a learner myself , I used get all flustered and cut out when people drove right up behind me and got narked with me , now when this happens I keep right out to the white line and slow down , If people wanna be a pr*ck to me and cant remember theirself what a daunting experience going on the open road can be , Ill be a prick back.

Other learners make me feel good because I see im not the only person stalling at lights and hesitating where there may be no need to hesitate.

Id love to have the option of having a qualified driver with me at all times , I believe it would makie me a better driver but its just not practical as Im away from home and none of my frends up here have a full license so like most other learners I go it alone .

commited

I dont mind learners at all when they are accompanied. However, the amount of unaccompanied learner drivers out there is worrying.

stevenmu

Does it really make much difference if a learner is accompanied or not, once they get past the very basics ? I don't see how having someone in the car would have helped me when I was one, and I don't see how I could help one now. I suppose there may be a moral support factor to it (which is kinda irrelevant to us huys anyway ) but in general there wouldn't be enough time for someone to intervene and stop a learner doing something stupid, and if there was is grabbing the wheel off them or janking up the handbrake going to be a good idea ? I don't think most full-license drivers are qualified to make that decision, or are even going to be paying enough attention to the situation to know what to do.