New Irish Political Party

Nevada

I Had A Dream

Would be interesting to discuss policies for a new Irish political party with a right/nationalist perspective.

Issues to put to the electorate would be a smashing of the asylum racket, keeping all those seeking asylum in one place at a reduced cost to all of us.

Protecting irish jobs and offering our people a referendum on continuing with the EU.

Financially encouraging irish families to have more children and fully subsidizing childcare.

Controlling immigration from eastern Europe, and abolishing the RTE tv licence.

Offer 3 candidates in each constituency 1,2,3. We would have such a victory of representation that would remove all trace of FF/FG/PD/SF/LAB from Dail Eireann.

We retake our parliament and our country spreading wealth to all 5 our million citizens.

This New, rich and equitable Ireland might even turn the heads of our Unionist brothers and sisters, Comrades all

Meh

Nevada wrote:

Protecting irish jobs and offering our people a referendum on continuing with the EU.

We retake our parliament and our country spreading wealth to all 5 our million citizens.

If you're going to leave the EU and reintroduce 1950s-style policies like economic protectionism then there's not going to be much wealth to spread around.

magpie

If this new National Bocialist party will scrap Council Housing, do away with Trade Unions and suppress the Catholic Church you've got my vote.

Sponge Bob

Call It the piss off party so that when I answer the door to them (by accident) and say piss off the answer is "Yes" with a smile .

otherwise meet Áine from Ennis for a tete a tete

Sarsfield

Organisations like that crop up all the time. The immigration control/God squad types. (and TV licence???)

They never get anywhere because ordinary people aren't interested in extremism. They also realise how insane these fantasies are. Ireland's wealth and success is hugely dependant on EU membership and immigration.

Generally, the smaller the country, the more important it is to be an integral part of the international community, for social and trade reasons.

billy the squid

Nevada wrote:

I Had A Dream

Would be interesting to discuss policies for a new Irish political party with a right/nationalist perspective.

Issues to put to the electorate would be a smashing of the asylum racket, keeping all those seeking asylum in one place at a reduced cost to all of us.

Making the assylum process would be more efficient than locking people up in concentration camps. but this new right wing party of yours would become like every other party and just keep the status quo once they realise the inefficiencies of the current system keeps people in cushy well paid positions.

Protecting irish jobs and offering our people a referendum on continuing with the EU.

Also you might want to consider the posibility that if we were to add taxes to foreign products those countries would more-than-likely reciprocate, try selling stuff to other countries then.

While there are employers who employers who will only employ foreign nationals because they will work for less, there are employers who will only employ foreign nationals because, a) irish people expect to be paid too much which the employer cannot afford or b) Irish people are lazy.

Financially encouraging irish families to have more children and fully subsidizing childcare.

It is hard enough to get irish people to work for what employers are paying now, can you imagine how hard it would be if you were to increase taxes to pay for all of this?

Controlling immigration from eastern Europe, and abolishing the RTE tv licence.

What is so different about the people from Eastern Europe of today and the Irish of the 1970? We were not to slow to take money from Europe when we needed it, we can't just tell europe to **** off now that they need our assistance. that would be just rude, and would make us a pariah state with governments and potential tourists alike.

Offer 3 candidates in each constituency 1,2,3. We would have such a victory of representation that would remove all trace of FF/FG/PD/SF/LAB from Dail Eireann.

What colour shirts would your bootboys wear?

We retake our parliament and our country spreading wealth to all 5 our million citizens.

I doubt very much that the country would be interested in going back to the days of Franco/Hitler/Musolini. In order to take back this country you would neet a mandate and a hell of a lot of (insert colour) shirts to do it.

This New, rich and equitable Ireland might even turn the heads of our Unionist brothers and sisters, Comrades all

They might roll their eyes but head turning is a little ambitious.

landser

don't we have the PD's for this sort of thing.

either way you can have my vote. i don't agree with everything you say, but, then again, there is never 100% consensus in any party e.g. the Tv Licence. Call it the Irish Party

Irl is awash with social democratic parties and leftist ideology, it'd be nice to have another party of the right.

Magpie, do you honestly feel that the catholic church still has such power that it needs to be supressed? the church has no longer any power in this country; we now all pray to the currency almighty: for good or ill, this is the case imo. If you just want them supressed because you don't agree with their dictats, then presumably you want to do away with all religion: imagine it, it's easy if you try.

Sarsfield, the irish aren;t interested in extremism??? so, Sinn Fein are a figment of my imagination then, and IRA is the Irish Ramblers Association? It is unlikely that such a party ould ever get into power, even in a coalition, yet as we've seen from the fringe left, that does not mean that their voices would not be heard and that they would not have an influence on policy

tim3115

While there are employers who employers who will only employ foreign nationals because they will work for less, there are employers who will only employ foreign nationals because, a) irish people expect to be paid too much which the employer cannot afford or b) Irish people are lazy.

Eh, look at what the Isle of Man have achieved. I know it's tiny in comparasion, but the facts are there. And quit using the old 'Irish people are lazy' talk. Irish people cannot afford to take jobs that offer crap money to them. Eastern Europeans love to that this little opportunity as they will be only here temporarily. That's where the country is so wrong that it's just shameful.

tim3115

Sinn Fein are a figment of my imagination then, and IRA is the Irish Ramblers Association? It is unlikely that such a party ould ever get into power, even in a coalition, yet as we've seen from the fringe left, that does not mean that their voices would not be heard and that they would not have an influence on policy

SF advocate immigration which just baffles me. I'm pretty sure they'll have nothing to do with Ireland, ever.

tim3115

I doubt very much that the country would be interested in going back to the days of Franco/Hitler/Musolini. In order to take back this country you would neet a mandate and a hell of a lot of (insert colour) shirts to do it.

You'd be surprised at how many people would like to go back to those days. It's just that in today's world, people are afraid to speak out. I've looked at many documentaries, and there are a good few German's who admitted that life was great back in the days of the reich.

billy the squid

tim3115 wrote:

You'd be surprised at how many people would like to go back to those days. It's just that in today's world, people are afraid to speak out. I've looked at many documentaries, and there are a good few German's who admitted that life was great back in the days of the reich.

how many of them were jewish?

Irish people cannot afford to take jobs that offer crap money to them. Eastern Europeans love to that this little opportunity as they will be only here temporarily. That's where the country is so wrong that it's just shameful.

Foreign nationals pay the same rents, taxes and bills as us when they are here, if they can manage on lower wages then why can we not?

Not everyone starts in a cushy well paid job, most people started their careers in low paid jobs until they gained enough experience and training and then move on to better paying jobs. so saying that foreign nationals come here for a few months and then move on is a bit of a cop out. all irish people would have to do is start off in the lower paying jobs and then move on to better paying jobs, but no, they want to go straight into the better paying jobs straight away.

Sarsfield

landser wrote:

Sarsfield, the irish aren;t interested in extremism??? so, Sinn Fein are a figment of my imagination then,

And they're moving steadily towards the mainstream

landser wrote:

and IRA is the Irish Ramblers Association?

That's pretty much all they can do since last weekend - their old activities being somewhat curtailed by decommissioning

Both examples making my point that the number of extremists is dwindling and as a nation we're very much 'steady-as-she-goes'. The reason? Success! We have money now. And with that (and liberalism) have the freedom to enjoy our lives as we choose. Extremism is for those who want things to change greatly and quickly. The marginalised and disenfranchised. These are reducing in numbers (although sadly the level of marginalisation has increased in terms of the gap between rich and poor). The marginalised will possibly move towards the extremes but they will be fewer and fewer. Not only that, but half will move towards the left (Joe Higgins & SF) and only half will move to the right (immigration control). So the level of support for the OPs proposal would be minimal.

bonkey

That's where the country is so wrong that it's just shameful.

Given that Ireland is still ticking along at more-or-less Full Employment, exactly what is shameful? That we're not paying these immigrants full whack to work the jobs that we don't have the population to fill if they weren't working them?

You're saying that you think it would be better if the cost of living for Irish people went up by paying these immigrants more?

Or...I know...we could get rid of the immigrants (what with them coming over here, stealing our jobs & women etc)...which would leave us with staffing shortages and higher prices because the Irish who did work them would still demand higher salaries.

SF advocate immigration which just baffles me.

In Ireland's current economic situation, there isn't a single economic reason to oppose immigration. I can't understand how it baffles you that SF aren't basing their stance on some sort of xenophobic reasoning, but are rather taking a pragmatic view of whats best for the country with this issue.

Or is it that they're looking at economics instead of some old starry-eyed vision of virgins dancing at the crossroads by moonlight when deciding our future that baffles you?

jc

tim3115

how many of them were jewish?

None? I know it's hard to believe this, but they are actually a minority group. Surprise, surprise.

Foreign nationals pay the same rents, taxes and bills as us when they are here, if they can manage on lower wages then why can we not?

Pay the same rents? Many cases show where there are more people living in houses than there should be, making use of any space they can find. Say they do pay the same etc, they don't suffer the same as Irish people as the Irish stay here, live here for good. They're the ones that are affected long term.

so saying that foreign nationals come here for a few months and then move on is a bit of a cop out.

You mean it's the truth.

whats best for the country

As they see it, not everyone views the world like that you know. As I mentioned earlier, Isle of Man try their utmost to get Manx working. Why it isn't done here, I don't know.

Sarsfield

tim3115 wrote:

None? I know it's hard to believe this, but they are actually a minority group. Surprise, surprise.

So it's not immigration you have a problem with, it's minorities?

What about Irish minorities? Travellers, Protestants, black Irish?

billy the squid

tim3115 wrote:

None? I know it's hard to believe this, but they are actually a minority group. Surprise, surprise.

Or perhaps their experience of the reich wasn't very pleasant living in places like Awshwitz and seeing their family members being gasses and experinmentted on and all. oh and spare me the revisionist speel.

Pay the same rents? Many cases show where there are more people living in houses than there should be, making use of any space they can find.

and how does them sharing houses affect you. students share houses so what.

Say they do pay the same etc, they don't suffer the same as Irish people as the Irish stay here, live here for good. They're the ones that are affected long term.

All the more reason for them to get up off their arse and find a job. start at the bottom and work their way up. Do you think that eastern european people, which now alot of them share the same status as us as EU citezens, just walk into cushy jobs when they go home.

You mean it's the truth.

no its a cop out. if it were the truth i would have said it was the truth. I didnt.

As they see it, not everyone views the world like that you know. As I mentioned earlier, Isle of Man try their utmost to get Manx working. Why it isn't done here, I don't know.

It has been tried here. FAS schemes, the back to work scheme, massive tax incentives for overseas employers to come here and give us employment. there is always going to be that group at the bottom of the barrel who, no matter what you do, will never work for the same rates that non-nationals are willing to work for.. we have reached that area of the barrel and need labour forces from elswhere.

These people are the ones who will come in looking for "a letter for the dole to say they are looking for work" and then bitch about a black face behind the counter in a shop on tuesday.

Meh

tim3115 wrote:

Pay the same rents? Many cases show where there are more people living in houses than there should be, making use of any space they can find. Say they do pay the same etc, they don't suffer the same as Irish people as the Irish stay here, live here for good. They're the ones that are affected long term.

So what's your problem with this? If a bunch of Polish lads over from Gdansk to earn a few euros want to sleep four to a room, it's no skin off my nose.

seedot

I Had A Dream

And what a dream

Would be interesting to discuss policies for a new Irish political party with a right/nationalist perspective.

would indeed

Issues to put to the electorate would be a smashing of the asylum racket, keeping all those seeking asylum in one place at a reduced cost to all of us.

Open borders would smash the asylum racket. It would also have the lowest cost. But it is in danger of being equitable, increasing assimilation and wealth on the island. Concentration camps are far preferable.

Protecting irish jobs and offering our people a referendum on continuing with the EU.

Because if they're not pure Irish jobs, we don't want them. Get away with your EU driven economic growth and EU funded infrastructure.

Financially encouraging irish families to have more children and fully subsidizing childcare.

Brave new world style mass rearing of children can allow us to reclaim our major export markets that worked so well from the foundations of the state - people and cows.

Controlling immigration from eastern Europe, and abolishing the RTE tv licence.

The TV license is of course part of the multiculturalist plot to destroy Ireland. Look at the name on the front of your TV - Toshiba, Hitachi, Phillips - all foreign names. All communication should be via a network of shebeens and carried out through the medium of fiddle music. As for those east europeans - have you seen their women? How can any Irish Cailin hope to compete with that lot dancing at the crossroads.

Offer 3 candidates in each constituency 1,2,3. We would have such a victory of representation that would remove all trace of FF/FG/PD/SF/LAB from Dail Eireann.

Is this some type of covert green party plot? Environmentalism is another foreign import I'll have you know. And what about the five seat constituencies - who knows who might get in if we don't offer a fuller slate.

We retake our parliament and our country spreading wealth to all 5 our million citizens.

As long as I'm one of the 5, I agree fully.

This New, rich and equitable Ireland might even turn the heads of our Unionist brothers and sisters, Comrades all

United in A strange and unique Use of Capital letters

tim3115

Do you think that eastern european people, which now alot of them share the same status as us as EU citezens, just walk into cushy jobs when they go home.

They probably set up some ATM scam.

If a bunch of Polish lads over from Gdansk to earn a few euros want to sleep four to a room, it's no skin off my nose.

And that's where the problem lies. That's why Ireland is of more benefit to people thousands of miles away than our own blood here. You not think it should be the other way round?

seeing their family members being gasses and experinmentted on and all. oh and spare me the revisionist speel.

Oh and spare me your inaccuracies.

billy the squid

tim3115 wrote:

They probably set up some ATM scam.

A sweeping generalisation if ever I saw one.

So you believe that only foreigners are responsible for crime in ireland. now who is being inaccurate. names such as The General, The Viper, The Monk The Westies, spring to mind, and that is just Dublin.

And that's where the problem lies. That's why Ireland is of more benefit to people thousands of miles away than our own blood here. You not think it should be the other way round?

It was the other way around 20 years ago, Countries thousands of miles away being of benifit to the irish. Can you tell me which time period has seen the country better off, the 1980s or today.

Oh and spare me your inaccuracies.

i suggest you google "final soloution" and "nazis" then come back and tell me who is inaccurate.

Sarsfield

tim3115 wrote:

And that's where the problem lies. That's why Ireland is of more benefit to people thousands of miles away than our own blood here. You not think it should be the other way round?

Yes, I think you should move to Gdansk

Meh

tim3115 wrote:

And that's where the problem lies. That's why Ireland is of more benefit to people thousands of miles away than our own blood here. You not think it should be the other way round?

Not sure what you mean here, "it should be the other way round". You want me to move to Gdansk and share a room with three other Irish blokes?

oscarBravo

tim3115 wrote:

That's why Ireland is of more benefit to people thousands of miles away than our own blood here.

My blood is fine, thanks.

rsynnott

"I am not a racialist, but, and zis is a BIG but, die National Bocialist Party says..."

tim3115 wrote:

You'd be surprised at how many people would like to go back to those days. It's just that in today's world, people are afraid to speak out. I've looked at many documentaries, and there are a good few German's who admitted that life was great back in the days of the reich.

Ah, I see I was correct.

tim3115 wrote:

None? I know it's hard to believe this, but they are actually a minority group. Surprise, surprise.

That makes murder acceptable, yes? Amazing. And what about gay people, communists, minority races?

tim3115 wrote:

Oh and spare me your inaccuracies.

Sorry, what? Are you a holocaust denier?

I think you'd better head back over to stormforce.

tim3115

That makes murder acceptable, yes? Amazing.

What are you on about? We were talking about the people who were interviewed. You really have to read the whole thing to understand it. Sit back down there..

And what about gay people, communists, minority races?

What about them?

Sorry, what? Are you a holocaust denier?

I wasn't the one who brought up Hitler and co, billy did. Are you trying to lay something on me here? What exactly are you trying to 'prove'? History says that the holocaust concerned Jews, what have Jews got to do with this thread?

It was the other way around 20 years ago, Countries thousands of miles away being of benifit to the irish. Can you tell me which time period has seen the country better off, the 1980s or today.

Are you looking to the future at all?

Anyways, self determination etc

AndyWarhol

magpie wrote:

If this new National Bocialist party will scrap Council Housing, do away with Trade Unions and suppress the Catholic Church you've got my vote.

Why would you want to suppress the Catholic Church?

black_jack

tim3115 wrote:

What are you on about? We were talking about the people who were interviewed. You really have to read the whole thing to understand it. Sit back down there..

People, interviewed, whut, seriously? Where?

What about them?

That maybe the millions dead, might not as you claim, look back fondly on the reich. Saying, some people might have liked the reich is like saying hey some people like North Korea, if you poll only the family and cohorts of Kim Jung Sung.

I wasn't the one who brought up Hitler and co, billy did. Are you trying to lay something on me here? What exactly are you trying to 'prove'? History says that the holocaust concerned Jews, what have Jews got to do with this thread?

You're the one who said many people liked the reich, billy merely wryly pointed out how many of those people were jewish?

Are you looking to the future at all?

Anyways, self determination etc

What self determination etc? what on earth are you on about.

rsynnott

AndyWarhol wrote:

Why would you want to suppress the Catholic Church?

Because it eats babies, naturally.

Although I'm not keen on the church and certainly think it should have no involvement with the state, I would be against suppressing it.

And who is that on your avatar, btw? I don't recall.

rsynnott

black_jack wrote:

That maybe the millions dead, might not as you claim, look back fondly on the reich. Saying, some people might have liked the reich is like saying hey some people like North Korea, if you poll only the family and cohorts of Kim Jung Sung.


.

And, of course, connoisseurs of ugly architecture and really deep subways.

AndyWarhol

rsynnott wrote:

Because it eats babies, naturally.

Well if anything, they protect babies. Liberals like you would prefer to kill off the unborn if it suited.

rsynnott wrote:

Although I'm not keen on the church and certainly think it should have no involvement with the state, I would be against suppressing it.

One has to remember where 'the state' comes from; it has its basis in a christian moral framework that has very christian-like laws that are very unlike the states that have evolved in the middle east for example. The relationship between church and state is a complex one and you can't just have the idealised utopia that is a clean church-state decoupling. These days we all seem to have our own moral set, but in general, these morals are all very similar to a 'Christian doctrine'.

rsynnott wrote:

And who is that on your avatar, btw? I don't recall.

It's the grim reaper. We're all going to die one day you know.

Souless

AndyWarhol wrote:

Well if anything, they protect babies. Liberals like you would prefer to kill off the unborn if it suited.


One has to remember where 'the state' comes from; it has its basis in a christian moral framework that has very christian-like laws that are very unlike the states that have evolved in the middle east for example. The relationship between church and state is a complex one and you can't just have the idealised utopia that is a clean church-state decoupling. These days we all seem to have our own moral set, but in general, these morals are all very similar to a 'Christian doctrine'.

Sorry is it just me or does the French state seem to work just fine even though the church and state affairs were seperated many years ago...Not sure of the exact date Im afriad but it was around the end of the 19th century and the begining of the 20th ie (1880-1905)

Anyway with that said im not against the church. I Believe that they certainly have the right to practice their beliefs with out being condemned or banned, even if I disagree with alot of them.

As for the comment you made about abortions this isnt a thread that has anything to do with that it is a politics thread.

AndyWarhol

Souless wrote:

Sorry is it just me or does the French state seem to work just fine even though the church and state affairs were seperated many years ago...Not sure of the exact date Im afriad but it was around the end of the 19th century and the begining of the 20th ie (1880-1905)

Anyway with that said im not against the church. I Believe that they certainly have the right to practice their beliefs with out being condemned or banned, even if I disagree with alot of them.

As for the comment you made about abortions this isnt a thread that has anything to do with that it is a politics thread.

Well France was France was "the first daughter of the church" and "The Most Christian King" (le roy tres chretien). There's no denying the fact that their laws today are based on a Christian moral framework. They can harp on about church state separation all they like, but there's no denying the history of their laws.

black_jack

AndyWarhol wrote:

Well if anything, they protect babies. Liberals like you would prefer to kill off the unborn if it suited.

Wow yes, We like the unborn foetus, lightly sauted, with a dry white wine sauce.

Yes liberals, we want to kill the unborn when it suits, liberals like
William Bennett, Education Secretary, to that famous liberal, Ronnie Regan who said recently

that aborting "every black baby in this country" would reduce the crime rate,

from cnn

The suggest that liberal "want" to kill children is a disgusting distortion of the truth. We don't. We just feel that a woman has a right to control her reproductive cycle and not some bloke in a dress.

One has to remember where 'the state' comes from; it has its basis in a christian moral framework that has very christian-like laws

Such as?

that are very unlike the states that have evolved in the middle east for example.

Facts links evidence, because the history of christian theocracys aren't happy joyous states, which promote religious, social and moral tolerance.

The relationship between church and state is a complex one and you can't just have the idealised utopia that is a clean church-state decoupling.

Yes you can and should, every year which gets us away from Sean "I'm a catholic first and a irishman second" Lemass years, is just fine by me.

These days we all seem to have our own moral set, but in general, these morals are all very similar to a 'Christian doctrine'.

You mean the stigmatisation of homosexuality?

Well France was France was "the first daughter of the church" and "The Most Christian King" (le roy tres chretien). There's no denying the fact that their laws today are based on a Christian moral framework. They can harp on about church state separation all they like, but there's no denying the history of their laws.

You mean like freedom of the press and free expression, two concepts mother church have an issue with.

AndyWarhol

black_jack wrote:

Wow yes, We like the unborn foetus, lightly sauted, with a dry white wine sauce.

Yes liberals, we want to kill the unborn when it suits, liberals like
William Bennett, Education Secretary, to that famous liberal, Ronnie Regan who said recently

from cnn

The suggest that liberal "want" to kill children is a disgusting distortion of the truth. We don't. We just feel that a woman has a right to control her reproductive cycle and not some bloke in a dress.

I don't know where you're coming from with that Ronal Reagan crap. Maybe he forgot that one of those black babies could one day grow up to be a surgeon who'll save thousands of lives throughout his life.

No woman has the right to take somebody else's life. What you're essentially suggesting with this 'right to control her reproductive cycle' lark is that abortion is form of birth control. Maybe the woman should think before she acts and not **** around with human life.

black_jack wrote:

Facts links evidence, because the history of christian theocracys aren't happy joyous states, which promote religious, social and moral tolerance.

Yes you can and should, every year which gets us away from Sean "I'm a catholic first and a irishman second" Lemass years, is just fine by me.

So where do we get the morals that one should not kill, one should not engage in adultery, one should not steal? These fundamental morals just come out of thin air? Don't try and deny that our laws are not derived from Christianty.

black_jack wrote:

You mean the stigmatisation of homosexuality?

Well I find the sexual act of sodomising another man quite vile actually. The church has explicit rules on homosexuals and no matter what sins they may have committed they will always be welcome. If anything, you're stigmatising followers of Christ with your outbursts.

black_jack wrote:

You mean like freedom of the press and free expression, two concepts mother church have an issue with.

Since when was the Church a democracy? Anyway I don't see why you're so annoyed by what the church has to say seeing as you're obviously not a member. Hopefully one day you'll see the light.

black_jack

AndyWarhol wrote:

I don't know where you're coming from with that Ronal Reagan crap. Maybe he forgot that one of those black babies could one day grow up to be a surgeon who'll save thousands of lives throughout his life.

You said liberal "like" to abort foetus, heres an example of a republican, conservative advocating abortion, I defy you to find a link to any liberal who "likes" to abort, they just see it as a right.

No woman has the right to take somebody else's life. What you're essentially suggesting with this 'right to control her reproductive cycle' lark is that abortion is form of birth control. Maybe the woman should think before she acts and not **** around with human life.

Yes, and logic like this is why we had the X case.

So where do we get the morals that one should not kill, one should not engage in adultery, one should not steal? These fundamental morals just come out of thin air? Don't try and deny that our laws are not derived from Christianty.

Hmm, the concepts of ethics morality and justice, and democracy doesn't come from, oh, the greeks.

Well I find the sexual act of sodomising another man quite vile actually. The church has explicit rules on homosexuals and no matter what sins they may have committed they will always be welcome. If anything, you're stigmatising followers of Christ with your outbursts.

Really, current drafted papal bull is rejecting homosexuals as priests, and by welcome, you mean, provided they renounce who they are.

Since when was the Church a democracy? Anyway I don't see why you're so annoyed by what the church has to say seeing as you're obviously not a member. Hopefully one day you'll see the light.

Oh lord the moral high ground, "I forgive you misguided fool" and now you're saying the church inspires democracy, just doesn't practice it.

Well do what I say, not what I do, yeah theres one of jesus's mottos in action.

AndyWarhol

black_jack wrote:

You said liberal "like" to abort foetus, heres an example of a republican, conservative advocating abortion, I defy you to find a link to any liberal who "likes" to abort, they just see it as a right.

I wonder why they don't like it now. I'll give you a hint: because they're murdering an innocent child.

black_jack wrote:

Yes, and logic like this is why we had the X case.

Well two putting wrongs against each other: the raping of an innocent girl and killing of another innocent unborn baby doesn't make a right. As far as the law of Ireland is concerned, the unborn child is a human being and whilst it may be traumatic for a girl who was raped to give birth, it's even worse to kill a child.

black_jack wrote:

Hmm, the concepts of ethics morality and justice, and democracy doesn't come from, oh, the greeks.

Western Europe is of Roman origin.

black_jack wrote:

Really, current drafted papal bull is rejecting homosexuals as priests, and by welcome, you mean, provided they renounce who they are.

I wonder why the Church is kicking out the gays now? Over 80% of all the child sex abuse cases involved homosexual persons. It's a scourge that needs to be gotten rid of and the sooner Pope Benedict publishes the better.

black_jack wrote:

Oh lord the moral high ground, "I forgive you misguided fool" and now you're saying the church inspires democracy, just doesn't practice it.

Well do what I say, not what I do, yeah theres one of jesus's mottos in action.

The Church is not a democracy. And from a moral point of view what I'm sayin is that the Church is perfectly clear about its moral stance and as far as it's concerned there is only one truth. Don't try and deny that modern democracy isn't inspired by such teachings.

rsynnott

Could we please, please have some sort of "No abortion No Northern Ireland No US Imperialism" tag for threads? Otherwise, all threads will degenerate into this same thing.

Diorraing

A Nationalist party that isn't full of Socialists!?! Sign me up!!!

black_jack

AndyWarhol wrote:

I wonder why they don't like it now. I'll give you a hint: because they're murdering an innocent child.

What? Seriously, you're contradicting yourself now, you claim liberals like to kill babies when it suits them, and then, when shown a christian republicans advocating widespread abortion, and I ask you to find a liberal who says the same, you start spluttering, about now we don't like.

No we don't but we don't want a mother bringing a child into the world who doesn't want or doesn't feel able to take care of, because of her emotional, financial or social stigma involved.

Remember mother church gave us the magedline laundries.

Well two putting wrongs against each other: the raping of an innocent girl and killing of another innocent unborn baby doesn't make a right. As far as the law of Ireland is concerned, the unborn child is a human being and whilst it may be traumatic for a girl who was raped to give birth, it's even worse to kill a child.

For starts you're defining life as conception thats a handy definition for you it doesn't work for me. I think exposing a child to the psycholgical trauma of pregancy due to rape and the bringing of an unwanted person into the world is a greater crime.

Western Europe is of Roman origin.

And rome was founded by the greeks and both existed before christianity and had a moral and ethical framework which had the founding principles of laws and democracy before christianity came along.

I wonder why the Church is kicking out the gays now? Over 80% of all the child sex abuse cases involved homosexual persons.

Thats a statistic, so I assume you'll provide us with a source. I'd love to see were you came up with that fact. Most paedophiles are generally hetrosexuals.

It's a scourge that needs to be gotten rid of and the sooner Pope Benedict publishes the better.

yes yes love your fellow man, unless you're a scourge on humanity. Andy mate you've changed since your studio 51 days.

The Church is not a democracy. And from a moral point of view what I'm sayin is that the Church is perfectly clear about its moral stance and as far as it's concerned there is only one truth. Don't try and deny that modern democracy isn't inspired by such teachings.

So modern democracy is inspired and is based on an absolute theocractic rule by a dictatorship that cannot be questioned. Yes, the parrallels are erie between that and a modern accountable democracy.

AndyWarhol

black_jack wrote:

What? Seriously, you're contradicting yourself now, you claim liberals like to kill babies when it suits them, and then, when shown a christian republicans advocating widespread abortion, and I ask you to find a liberal who says the same, you start spluttering, about now we don't like.

No we don't but we don't want a mother bringing a child into the world who doesn't want or doesn't feel able to take care of, because of her emotional, financial or social stigma involved.

Remember mother church gave us the magedline laundries.

You can go on about democrate/republican liberal/conservative all you want, one thing is for sure, abortion is baby-killing is murder.

black_jack wrote:

For starts you're defining life as conception thats a handy definition for you it doesn't work for me. I think exposing a child to the psycholgical trauma of pregancy due to rape and the bringing of an unwanted person into the world is a greater crime.

Conception is a 'handy' definition? You've probably got some arbitrary cut-off point where it's ok to kill a baby. Do you agree with third trimester abortions where they essentially pull the kid out with a metal claw?

black_jack wrote:

And rome was founded by the greeks and both existed before christianity and had a moral and ethical framework which had the founding principles of laws and democracy before christianity came along.

That doesn't mean they were right. Were the cavemen right?

black_jack wrote:

Thats a statistic, so I assume you'll provide us with a source. I'd love to see were you came up with that fact. Most paedophiles are generally hetrosexuals.

"More than 80 per cent of the 11,000 alleged victims of abuse by Catholic priests in the US were young males."
Daily Telegraph, 23rd Sept. 2005

black_jack wrote:

yes yes love your fellow man, unless you're a scourge on humanity. Andy mate you've changed since your studio 51 days.

You see that's where you completely misunderstand me. I admire AW for his artwork, yes he happened to be gay, you're not suggesting that I agree with absolutely every little detail of somebody's life are you? I know gay people and I love them like I would any other human being.

black_jack wrote:

So modern democracy is inspired and is based on an absolute theocractic rule by a dictatorship that cannot be questioned. Yes, the parrallels are erie between that and a modern accountable democracy.

Yes, Truth cannot be questioned.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

black_jack

AndyWarhol wrote:

You can go on about democrate/republican liberal/conservative all you want, one thing is for sure, abortion is baby-killing is murder.

Well thats a compelling argument I'm convinced.

Conception is a 'handy' definition? You've probably got some arbitrary cut-off point where it's ok to kill a baby. Do you agree with third trimester abortions where they essentially pull the kid out with a metal claw?

So are you opposed to condoms and the pill?

That doesn't mean they were right. Were the cavemen right?

What seriously? greeks and romans had voting, laws similar to our own such as penatlies for corruption and adultary and murder. These laws predate christian infulences on their society so your point is moot. The suggestion that the ten commandments and christian beliefs are the cornerstone of our legal and moral system ignores so many fundamental aspects of how our society developed it could only come from a christian ostrich.

"More than 80 per cent of the 11,000 alleged victims of abuse by Catholic priests in the US were young males."
Daily Telegraph, 23rd Sept. 2005

Possibly the most loathsome and ignorant lie perpuated by catholics is the link between paedophilia and homosexuality

Some individuals assert sexual attraction to children to be a sexual orientation in itself. This is at odds with the current acceptance that the term sexual orientation only subsumes attraction to one's own sex, the opposite sex, or both. The proponents of such a view point out that homosexuality, heterosexuality and bisexuality are not normally associated with attraction to children and that children are physically and mentally different enough from adults to warrant categorising attraction toward them as a completely different sexual orientation.

Strictly speaking, a person is not necessarily a pedophile simply because he or she is sexually aroused by children; rather, a pedophile is defined as someone whose primary sexual attraction is toward children. In most cases, however, pedophilia is used in a looser sense to describe anyone found to be sexually aroused by children and is often diagnosed solely in the presence of fantasies or sexual urges on the subject's part—it need not involve sexual acts with children. In this regard, there is evidence that at least a quarter of all adult men may have feelings of sexual arousal in connection with children[2].

from wikipedia

You see that's where you completely misunderstand me. I admire AW for his artwork, yes he happened to be gay, you're not suggesting that I agree with absolutely every little detail of somebody's life are you? I know gay people and I love them like I would any other human being.

A post ago they were a scourge. Now you admire their art. Do you really want me to start fwding some links to Andy Warhols film work? Cause this is going to get funny. Really funny. Fast.

Yes, Truth cannot be questioned.

There is no absolute truth, the church would have us believe at times the earth was flat, everything circled around and we came from adam and eve 4,004 years ago. These "truths" were questioned in the scopes trial and by men like Copernicus and they were vilified by your church. You've pre enlightenment mind my friend. but don't worry one day I hope you'll see the light.

See suggesting that the church's opinion on what is and what isn't true is definitive is just laughable. Remind me does this pope think he's infallible? because a number of popes over the past 500 years have declared themselves the infallible spokesperson of god and a number of popes have recanted this position. So "the truth" about whether the pope is infallible, has been called into question by the popes themselves. So the truth can't be in question?

tim3115

Most paedophiles are generally hetrosexuals

Source??

billy the squid

tim3115 wrote:

I wasn't the one who brought up Hitler and co, billy did. Are you trying to lay something on me here? What exactly are you trying to 'prove'? History says that the holocaust concerned Jews, what have Jews got to do with this thread?

actually you brought up the reich by saying that you seen documentaries that had Germans on them saying that they would rather the reich had stayed. The question I asked you was how many Jews were shown to be praising the Reich, to which you answered none, claiming that they were a minority.

So what i would like to know is, does the fact that they were a minority, disqualify them their entitlement to happiness.

I would believe that the lack of enthusiasm for fascism in Germany amongst the jewish community has more to do with the treatment of jews during the rule of hitler, and not to do with the fact that there were no jews availible to take part in the documentary.

Oh, and the reason hitler was dragged into this thread is that the OPs idea of a political party is modeled on the Brownshirts of hitlers time, and the redshirts of Franco's time.

What about them?

Homosexuals are humans too. they are just as entitled to human rights and freedoms as everyone else.

rsynnott

AndyWarhol wrote:

"More than 80 per cent of the 11,000 alleged victims of abuse by Catholic priests in the US were young males."
Daily Telegraph, 23rd Sept. 2005

You've made an amazing leap of faith here, by assuming that paedophilia has anything in particular to do with conventional sexual orientation. Most paedophiles who molest male children are heterosexuals molesting their relatives; very often their own children.

black_jack

tim3115 wrote:

Source??

The wikipedia article I quoted, contains several articles by among others the APA.

But hey, any chance you'd provide a link to those nice germans who thought the reich was only fantastic.

Just kinda cynical reading the a book on the warsaw rising in 44, theres a few million poles who'd object to fond memories of the reich.

tim3115

But hey, any chance you'd provide a link to those nice germans who thought the reich was only fantastic.

What do you think the Reich actually represented?

Once you figure that much out, then it'll all become clear.

rsynnott

tim3115 wrote:

What do you think the Reich actually represented?

Once you figure that much out, then it'll all become clear.

A route to power for a cynical dictator.

Did I win?

Or were you expecting some babble about the importance of the Fatherland?

tim3115

The nation flourished during his reign as Fuhrer.

Cynical? Don't know where you're going with that.

billy the squid

107,000 dutch jews sent to death camps tutt tutt

http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=19&story_id=24084&name=Dutch+Rail+apologises+for+collaboration+with+Nazis

is this what the reich was about?

billy the squid

tim3115 wrote:

The nation flourished during his reign as Fuhrer.

Cynical? Don't know where you're going with that.

Flourished? he lead his country into a war that lasted 6 years, cost millions of lives, and left his country in ruins. I wouldnt exactly call that a roaring success to be honest. if he wanted his country to flourish he would have stayed out of other countries like franco. Franco might have been a bastard but at least he gained longevity for fascism by minding his own business and not invading countries who wanted no part in his world view.