Driver tried to stop me merging onto M50

Johnny Storm

Yesterday I was trying to merge onto the M50 heading south from the Red Cow Roundabout. At this stage the filter-in lane from the Red Cow Roundabout is kind of mixed with the filter-out lane for the next exit.
I saw my "natural" opening between two cars. The second of the cars had his indicator on indicating he was about to leave the M50 at the upcoming exit. Great, I thought. I put on my indicator and begin to move right. But think again, Mr Smartypants-second-car speeds up to block me. I slow down, he slows down, I speed up, he speeds up.
At this stage I was running out of room so I slapped on the brakes and let him pull in in front of me. I was really pissed off at this guy's antics so I gave a good blast of the horn. As he went up the exit ramp I had a good look at him. Not some kind of demented teenage aggro-head but a "respectable"-looking, pudgey, mid-thirties, middle-class twat with a receding hairline. The thing that REALLY annoyed me was the smarmy-looking grin on his face. Obviously he thought it was great gas.
I'd be really interested in people's opinions as to what this guy thought he was doing and as to what I should have done. As far as I can see I didn't do anything that might have annoyed this guy.
Have we gotten to the stage where even the middle-class **** are acting like Mad Max?

prospect

He sounds like a grade A vanker.

seamus

That exit can be a nightmare at times - people just come off the Red Cow roundabout going far too slowly, much worse than the other interchanges.
Last week I was coming down the M50 southbound, driving lane, doing 120kph (it was late evening, so not too much traffic) learner driver comes down from the Red Cow, no indicating, no looking, no waiting, straight off the sliproad onto the motorway, doing about 55kph. Luckily, from the moment I'd seen her I'd gotten a sixth sense that she would do just that, but by the time she was on the carriageway I'm still going 100kph. So heavy braking ensues, followed by a flash and a long blast on the horn. Still didn't react. I was taking the next exit anyway, so I undertook her and got a look, she was oblivious, unphased, chatting away to her mate.
One day she'll do the same thing in front of a truck and not come out so well.

I do find that people generally are much more aggro and "get out of my way" on M50 - especially the middle/upper-class suits. When moving onto the slip road in the car (two lanes merge onto the slip at Lucan), I've had people speed up to prevent me merging onto the slip. Luckily, also having a bike makes you ballsy in these situations, so I just remain in the hatched area and force my way in.

Keyzer

I read somewhere recently that Irish drivers are the worst in Europe, 2nd only to the Italians.

I'd well believe it, sometimes I really wish I was driving a banger, I'd crash into the muppets who pull out in front of me. Or maybe mount a cannon on the roof and shoot them instead.

jlang

What might have been funny was if he'd blocked you the whole way and you'd had to run up the ramp at Ballymount/Cookstown and down the other side again while he'd have to continue on till Tallaght!

Also, a large part of the M50 upgrade is that in addition to a third lane on the main carriageway, there will be a fourth lane for merging in/out between most of the junctions in exactly the configuration that you mention above.

Johnny Storm

jlang wrote:

What might have been funny was if he'd blocked you the whole way and you'd had to run up the ramp at Ballymount/Cookstown and down the other side again while he'd have to continue on till Tallaght!
..........

I seriously thought of doing that at the time. (But TBH I forgot about going down the other side)
I also thought of following him up the ramp and beating the **** out of him - but I caught onto myself - I'd probably be posting this now from either hospital or jail.

Corben Dallas

Grade A plonker.

Common courtesy would normally make space to let u in, unless u were doing a stunt driver move and were squeezing into an impossible gap. If you were id do the same.

It is up to the merging driver to safely join the traffic,not the M50 drivers to move over cause they see u coming down the slip road. If you hit him while merging u would be in the wrong.

prospect

seamus wrote:

Last week I was coming down the M50 southbound, driving lane, doing 120kph (it was late evening, so not too much traffic) learner driver comes down from the Red Cow, no indicating, no looking, no waiting, straight off the sliproad onto the motorway, doing about 55kph. Luckily, from the moment I'd seen her I'd gotten a sixth sense that she would do just that, but by the time she was on the carriageway I'm still going 100kph. So heavy braking ensues, followed by a flash and a long blast on the horn. Still didn't react. I was taking the next exit anyway, so I undertook her and got a look, she was oblivious, unphased, chatting away to her mate.

What she did wrong:
1. If she was the L driver she shouldn't even have been on the motorway.
2. She should have indicated
3. Should have made an effort to safely try and match the speed of the traffic.
4. She should have been aware

What you did wrong
1. As you say you saw her coming down the slip lane, you should have moved out into the overtaking lane, to allow merging traffic onto the motorway.
2. Slowed down to allow the merging traffic onto the motorway, and then taken your exit, observing the appropriate speed limits

seamus

prospect wrote:

What you did wrong
1. As you say you saw her coming down the slip lane, you should have moved out into the overtaking lane, to allow merging traffic onto the motorway.

I couldn't move out (there was traffic in the overtaking lane). She was first in the merging queue, so I had no prior warning that there was traffic preparing to merge.

2. Slowed down to allow the merging traffic onto the motorway, and then taken your exit, observing the appropriate speed limits

Clearly I did slow down between the time the potential hazard was spotted and the time it became a hazard. Speed limits were observed at all times.

What I did wrong was undertake her, and I probably could have braked a bit harder before she arrived on the m-way, but either way I would have flashed and beeped her.

prospect

seamus wrote:

and I probably could have braked a bit harder before she arrived on the m-way

Even then, some other fekker, too busy picking their nose, would probably have rear ended you....


Sometimes you just can't win


Funny thing is, she deffo heard you beep, and probably saw you flashing, but she was so oblivious to the fact that she can't drive for sh1t, she assumed your anger was directed at someone else, "Oh he can't be beeping at me WHAT did I do wrong?" :rolleyes:

seamus

Aye. But live and learn. There's always something more I could have done to prevent the idiots from affecting me

My better half has the opposite problem. Whenever she hears anyone beep, anywhere, she immediately assumes she was the one who's done something wrong and panics

Mr Magnolia

I had a guy do something similar to me, I was entering the M50 from the N4, he nearly hit the car in front rather than let me on to the slip road, I squeezed out anyway and took his wing mirror with me. He wasn't at all amused, he was raving about calling the Gardai, never heard anymore about it!
I'm generally always courteous on the road but I'd had enough that day.

BrianD3

prospect wrote:

What you did wrong
1. As you say you saw her coming down the slip lane, you should have moved out into the overtaking lane, to allow merging traffic onto the motorway.
2. Slowed down to allow the merging traffic onto the motorway, and then taken your exit, observing the appropriate speed limits

Nah, he's not obliged to do either of these things. In fact, moving into the overtaking lane or slowing down to allow merging vehicles in could well cause more harm than good as he could impede or surprise traffic behind him. Obviously this would depend on the traffic conditions.

The only wrong doing in this case was by the stupid retard who cut onto the motorway mainline at 55 km/h.

However actively blocking somone from merging by speeding up, slowing down, speeding up etc. as in the original post is obviously not on.

NeMiSiS

You would assume the big sign heading down onto the motorway saying 120kph would make people try at least attain something close to that speed before merging.. Course not !
TK

prospect

BrianD3 wrote:

Nah, he's not obliged to do either of these things

'Obligation' had nothing to do with my point.

I was referring to good manners, ettiquette, safe driving and collision avoidance.

At the time I made the point I was under the impression the road was very quiet:

seamus wrote:

(it was late evening, so not too much traffic)

In which case this would have been the safest and most logical course of action.

Letter of the law Vs Spirit of the law

BrianD3

NeMiSiS wrote:

You would assume the big sign heading down onto the motorway saying 120kph would make people try at least attain something close to that speed before merging.. Course not !
TK

Ah sure why would anyone want to do 120 km/h? Don't we all know that SPEED KILLS. Much safer to stick to 50 or 60 km/h :rolleyes:

Gilgamesh

seamus wrote:

from the moment I'd seen her I'd gotten a sixth sense .

so you saw dead people? :eek:

BrianD3

prospect wrote:

'Obligation' had nothing to do with my point.

I was referring to good manners, ettiquette, safe driving and collision avoidance.

At the time I made the point I was under the impression the road was very quiet:

In which case this would have been the safest and most logical course of action.

Letter of the law Vs Spirit of the law

OK fair enough. But one problem with this is that as people start followng the spirit of the law rather than the letter then idiots can get confused. Eg that retard that pulled out in front of seamus. She probably does this on a regular basis and is used to people jumping out of her way into the overtaking lane to make room for her. After seeing this often enough she could well start to belive that they are *obliged* to do this and that she has priority when merging.

prospect

BrianD3 wrote:

OK fair enough. But one problem with this is that as people start followng the spirit of the law rather than the letter then idiots can get confused. Eg that retard that pulled out in front of seamus. She probably does this on a regular basis and is used to people jumping out of her way into the overtaking lane to make room for her. After seeing this often enough she could well start to belive that they are *obliged* to do this and that she has priority when merging.

True,
Then it all falls back to driver education, and proper enforcement.

Damn ass stupid Irish driving test :mad:

LegacyUser

Some drivers seem afraid of doing the speed limit. Granted while no-one should be forced to bucket along at 120km/h if they're not up to it, there should be a minumum speed limit (e.g. 80 km/h), and tbh if people dont want to move at the flow of traffic and want to go out on a "Sunday drive" during rush hour, then they shouldnt be on the motorway.

As earlier mentioned some M50 drivers seem unable to grasp the concept that on merging with the motorway, they should be doing a speed somewhere approaching the speed limit coming towards the end of the ramp.

the_syco

prospect wrote:

True,
Then it all falls back to driver education, and proper enforcement.

Damn ass stupid Irish driving test :mad:

To have L plates, you don't even need to know how to drive...

Alun

The worst thing is when you end up coming onto the motorway behind one of these people. If there's no one behind me I often deliberately hang back on the on ramp to create a larger than necessary gap just to give me room to accelerate up to a reasonably safe speed to merge.

Oh, and BTW, it's km/h people ... not kph, kmph or (most bizarre of all) kmp/h Reminds me of a Kia something-or-other I saw driving around the airport area last week with advertising blurb all over it proclaiming it did "over 90kpg" ??!!

fletch

Yeh it really does my head in when people dawdle along down the slip road onto a motorway, I use it as a chance to get up to cruising speed on the motorway (120km/h)
As Alun jus said, I generally hang back & then when I have sufficient gap in front of me to allow myself get up to 120km/h, I floor it! Pisses some people off behind ya cause they are wonderin what the hell you're at but I drive quite an underpowered car which can bog down if I don't get up to speed (particularly on the M50 Blanchardstown Northbound ramp cause after the ramp, the road is uphill)

Bluetonic

seamus wrote:

....learner driver comes down from the Red Cow, no indicating, no looking, no waiting, straight off the sliproad onto the motorway, doing about 55kph...

How did you know the driver was a learner driver?

Don't use the auld "the car had L plates on it" answer, that doesn't prove a thing.

el tel

http://www.lireland.com/theory/motorwaydrv.htm

The text should come printed on the dashboard of all cars in Ireland.

(as should http://www.lireland.com/theory/roundabouts.htm )

0utshined

Bluetonic wrote:

How did you know the driver was a learner driver?

Don't use the auld "the car had L plates on it" answer, that doesn't prove a thing.

It should. If it's not the learner driving they should take down the plates.

seamus

Bluetonic wrote:

How did you know the driver was a learner driver?

Don't use the auld "the car had L plates on it" answer, that doesn't prove a thing.

What, are you indignant that I would dare assume a learner doesn't know how to drive?

It had L plates on it, had a young woman in it, and drove like a muppet. The odds are good that she was a learner.

Karma

So we should pack up our day jobs and not let them on the roads???
https://www.publicjobs.ie/cand/Regulations/05095_Driver_Tester.doc
Currently recuiting...

Bluetonic

0utshined wrote:

It should. If it's not the learner driving they should take down the plates.

Not to get away from the original topic in the least but could you direct me to section in the rules of the road where this is stated.

I actually have been looking for it for some time.

Johnny Storm

Bluetonic wrote:

Not to get away from the original topic in the least but could you direct me to section in the rules of the road where this is stated.

I actually have been looking for it for some time.

I have no idea if that is actually stated in the ROTR or not. But if it isn't then IMHO it definitely should be.

blastman

Why would you want to drive with L plates if you aren't a learner anyway? Might as well paint a bullseye on the car...

hshortt

To the OP,

You could have stayed in, and not let the little f e c k e r in, he'd have missed his exit and been rightly peeved. But you could have taken the next exit then entrance and been away with a bigger grin on your face.

Not that'd actually do that myself, but I hate impolite drivers like that.

Cheers

DamoKen

Johnny Storm wrote:

but a "respectable"-looking, pudgey, mid-thirties, middle-class twat with a receding hairline.
Have we gotten to the stage where even the middle-class **** are acting like Mad Max?

I was driving along in the "fast" lane northbound just past where the Blanch ramp merges with the M50 last week, the usual 40km bumper to bumper rush hour cr*p we all know and love. Anyway this transit van was merging into the slow lane, one car slowed to let him in, only reason I noticed was he swerved in quite quickly without indicating, no big deal, no harm done. But it was what he did next I couldn't believe, he was parallel to the car in front of me, but rather than staying where he was he starts to come across the line between the lanes, I can see the guy in the car in front of me looking at him wondering what the hell, surely he sees me??? Doesn't seem to matter as he keeps on coming, at this stage the car in front of me has been forced to the side of the road, his wheels just grazing the grass verge so he finally stops dead and has the temerity to beep the van. Instead of getting an apologetic wave or whatever from the van, the next minute half the van drivers body is out the window (I can only assume/hope someone else was in the van steering for him), shaking his fist at the car that dared beep him and screaming obscenities!
So does this make that guy a "working class w*anker or twat???, no, just makes him an ignorant c*nt. No idea where this class bullsh*t comes into it tbh. :rolleyes:

Bluetonic

blastman wrote:

Why would you want to drive with L plates if you aren't a learner anyway? Might as well paint a bullseye on the car...

Perhaps if you were learning to drive in a car owned by someone else, then that car might have L plates on it when a fully licenced driver is driving. A parents car for instance who are teaching their children to drive.

If a car is displaying L plates correctly they should be afixed somewhere not obsecuring view so probably on the body of the car.... would hardly make sense to keep sticking them on and removing them.

Also you see plenty of driving school cars driving around all day with only instructors in them when they are not taking lessons and these cars display L plates. Also anyone can set themself up as a driving school. Another example.

Alun

Bluetonic wrote:

Perhaps if you were learning to drive in a car owned by someone else, then that car might have L plates on it when a fully licenced driver is driving. A parents car for instance who are teaching their children to drive.

If a car is displaying L plates correctly they should be afixed somewhere not obsecuring view so probably on the body of the car.... would hardly make sense to keep sticking them on and removing them.

Also you see plenty of driving school cars driving around all day with only instructors in them when they are not taking lessons and these cars display L plates. Also anyone can set themself up as a driving school. Another example.

It's certainly illegal in the UK, although I'm sure they have some kind of get-out clause for driving schools. Not sure about here.

When I was learning to drive many years ago we had a set of L plates with magnetic strips on them a bit like what you get on fridge magnets which were simply put on and taken off as required.

Not rocket science really.

bazz26

I think in general Irish drivers don't know how to drive on motorways. We tend to treat them the same as driving on a back roads or tractor trails.

I have driven on motorways in England also mostly the M25 and M4, it really amazes me how good people know how to drive on motorways there. Even in the busy rush hour drivers are calm and sensible when it comes to changing lanes and merging from slip roads. Of course they have muppets aswell but they are few and far between from my experience. Most people just want to get to and from work safely but know that others are trying to do the same too.

Maybe there should be a section of the driving test here with deals in detail with driving on motorways rather than just spotting a few signs or answering a question or two. Then again considering that there are very few motorways in Ireland it may not work out so good in most places.

Johnny Storm

DamoKen wrote:

I was driving along in the "fast" lane northbound just past where the Blanch ramp merges with the M50 last week, the usual 40km bumper to bumper rush hour cr*p we all know and love. Anyway this transit van was merging into the slow lane, one car slowed to let him in, only reason I noticed was he swerved in quite quickly without indicating, no big deal, no harm done. But it was what he did next I couldn't believe, he was parallel to the car in front of me, but rather than staying where he was he starts to come across the line between the lanes, I can see the guy in the car in front of me looking at him wondering what the hell, surely he sees me??? Doesn't seem to matter as he keeps on coming, at this stage the car in front of me has been forced to the side of the road, his wheels just grazing the grass verge so he finally stops dead and has the temerity to beep the van. Instead of getting an apologetic wave or whatever from the van, the next minute half the van drivers body is out the window (I can only assume/hope someone else was in the van steering for him), shaking his fist at the car that dared beep him and screaming obscenities!
So does this make that guy a "working class w*anker or twat???, no, just makes him an ignorant c*nt. No idea where this class bullsh*t comes into it tbh. :rolleyes:

If you were as old as me you'd remember the class struggle

Anyway, come the revolution........

Gandhi

Peoples' attitudes change in heavy traffic. It feels more like you are queuing up to get somewhere rather than travelling along, and people react to that feeling.

If a truckload of pigs merges in front of you in light traffic, and they are slow as hell, no problem, you can just pass them almost immediately. If that happens in heavy traffic, you could be stuck behind them for miles.

Couple this with the (already mentioned) army of simpletons who think "merging" consists of indicating (if you are lucky) and drifting into the travelling lane expecting everyone around them to slam on the brakes, and the whole merging situation becomes really stressful.

Out of interest, how many of the people posting about bad driving they have seen called the Gardai about it? Obviously it doesn't warrant a 999 call, but did anyone call the front desk of the local Garda station and report time, place, reg. plate etc.?

Getting back on topic, I would definitely want to call the cops on that dude the OP mentioned. As far as I am concerned, he was attempting to cause a collision. Unless it was genuine incompetence behind the wheel. What if the OP had been one of the clueless "drifters" mentioned above?

Of course, realistically, I would get home, turn on the TV, and not bother calling the cops, like most people. Which makes me more part of the problem than the solution.

From a pure "laws of physics" standpoint, the dude should have let you in front. In a lane-weave situation, the car getting on the expressway (you) needs to accelerate as it changes lanes, while the car getting off (your new best friend) needs to decelerate while changing lanes. Obviously, you don't want the car slowing down to be in front. Apparently your buddy thinks that doing it this way is a waste of a good bumper.

<Posted by BlueTonic>Also anyone can set themself up as a driving school.</Posted by BlueTonic>
That probably does not help the problem.

Apologies for the wandering post - I drank way too much coffee today.

AMurphy

Johnny Storm wrote:

......The second of the cars had his indicator on indicating he was about to leave the M50 at the upcoming exit. Great, I thought. I put on my indicator and begin to move right. But think again, Mr Smartypants-second-car speeds up to block me. I slow down, he slows down, I speed up, he speeds up.
At this stage I was running out of room so I slapped on the brakes and let him pull in in front of me.
......
Have we gotten to the stage where even the middle-class **** are acting like Mad Max?

I didn't read the whole losts of replies. So this may be a repeat.
Welcome to highspeed highway merging.
I wasn't there so I canot be 100% sure, but it IS possible to get your responses in synch with a merging car and each do exactly the same thing at the same time, I've done it several times, or rather, me and someone else.... eventually after about 2 cycles, you hope that the other party goes for a 3rd cycle so you can do exactly the opposite, or continue to do whatever you were doing, thus do the opposite.
Generally, unless someone is eyeballing you and simultaneously ignoring hand waves to either speed up/pass or slow down, it a "sorry buddy" wave off.
So it might be owrthwhile to reconsider the possibility that it was "an innocent accident" or "alignment of perfect minds".

Kersh

The bad news about a 3rd lane on the m50, is that Irish drivers wiil be totally unable to filter on and off a 3 lane 120kmh motorway - its bad enough that every exit/entry is at a standstill from drivers' inabilty to merge properly on the current 2 lane..
I have driven all over the UK, mainly Mways, and that doesnt happen ever that I have come across.
Whereas over here, the m50 is clear til you reach blanch ramp, then clear til you reach finglas ramp etc - then again when you think about it, we dont teach learners how to drive on motorways, do we!! Then we let them loose when they pass their test.

AMurphy

Kersh wrote:

......- its bad enough that every exit/entry is at a standstill from drivers' inabilty to merge properly on the current 2 lane..
.......

I'd say that is pretty true, many either stop or slow down or just plonk into the lane at 35mph..... instead of speeding up to match the through traffic and merging flawlessly.

Hagar

Common courtesy isn't as common as it used to be.

DublinWriter

Keyzer wrote:

I read somewhere recently that Irish drivers are the worst in Europe, 2nd only to the Italians.

At least we don't have the same culture of road rage that you see a lot of in the UK.

We, like the Italians, huff and puff a lot, but then generally get on with our day.

In the UK, they tend to be a bit more repressed and go totally postal in a road-rage situtation.

Hellrazer

DublinWriter wrote:

At least we don't have the same culture of road rage that you see a lot of in the UK.

Can see it coming though.

Couple of weeks back this idiot undertakes me on the Lucan M50 exit ramp.Swerves up the inside lane reserved for left only and swings in front of me at speed.Had to slam on the brakes to avoid hitting him in the rear.

Course being the hot headed person I hit the horn and flash the lights at this nut job.

He jumps out of his car and starts banging my drivers window and roaring at me to get out of the car shouting that he was in the right etc etc.
My only reaction was one of pure shock.So I roll down my window tell him to f**k off back into his car or Ill call the cops and he keeps it up until I show him my mobile with 999 on the screen.
Cops reckon with all the traffic driving more slowly than ever and people being totally pissed off with having to spend more and more time in their cars that the situation is only going to worsen.

bounty

seamus wrote:

What, are you indignant that I would dare assume a learner doesn't know how to drive?

It had L plates on it, had a young woman in it, and drove like a muppet. The odds are good that she was a learner.

sarcasm is the lowest form of wit :rolleyes:

luckat

Hellrazer wrote:

He jumps out of his car and starts banging my drivers window and roaring at me to get out of the car shouting that he was in the right etc etc.
My only reaction was one of pure shock.So I roll down my window tell him to f**k off back into his car or Ill call the cops and he keeps it up until I show him my mobile with 999 on the screen.

Years ago I worked with a photographer who had the same kind of confrontation, but he just reached into his car, took out his camera and **click** took a picture of the insane driver shrieking and foaming. The man turned on his heel, walked back to his car and drove away.

Johnny Storm

luckat wrote:

Years ago I worked with a photographer who had the same kind of confrontation, but he just reached into his car, took out his camera and **click** took a picture of the insane driver shrieking and foaming. The man turned on his heel, walked back to his car and drove away.

It'd be much better if you could pull out your M16.

NUTLEY BOY

Who the hell designs Irish roads anyway ?

Personally, I suspect that they are all designed in a dungeon by some guy with an expired provisional licence who rides a bicycle with no saddle.

That is solidly good advice from luckat. Lock your door and don't get out of the car. If you get out too you might end up in court on an assault charge or on a slab in the morgue given the unpredictable nutters driving around these days.

If you have a camera phone you can take a picture of the offender and his car for future reference or for the gardai if you are prepared to follow it up.

Victor

Hagar wrote:

Common courtesy isn't as common as it used to be.

The slapper got married.

Johnny Storm

NUTLEY BOY wrote:

Who the hell designs Irish roads anyway ?

Personally, I suspect that they are all designed in a dungeon by some guy with an expired provisional licence who rides a bicycle with no saddle.

That is solidly good advice from luckat. Lock your door and don't get out of the car. If you get out too you might end up in court on an assault charge or on a slab in the morgue given the unpredictable nutters driving around these days.

If you have a camera phone you can take a picture of the offender and his car for future reference or for the gardai if you are prepared to follow it up.

Whatever about motorways, IMHO Irish city roads and traffic systems are designed by people with an uber-ecological ideology who have a deep-seated hatred of the idea of the private car.

NUTLEY BOY wrote:

Lock your door and don't get out of the car.

100% agree. This is the only sensible approach.

blastman

Saw a particularly nasty road rage incident at shopping centre in Blanchardstown on Saturday. Didn't seewhat caused it, but there were punches thrown, roaring and shouting, shirts almost pulled off people ... all this with the kids in the car looking on. Lovely way to spend your Saturday afternoon.