Are the dubs far behind ?

ublinia2

Looking at tyrone yesterday , one wonders if the dubs are far behind. The might even have beaten kerry if they met them in the championship earlier on. Considering they brought Tyrone to a replay and although they didnt play well the second day ( were on the way bvack until the goal ) , the must be in contention next year , if caffery can find a few extra players.

Waylander

Do you not remember what happened last time Dublin met Kerry. Lets not get carried away here, I am a Dublin fan, but there is a fair gap between Armagh, Kerry and Tyrone down to the likes of Cork and Dublin.

Benedict XVI

ublinia2 wrote:

Looking at tyrone yesterday , one wonders if the dubs are far behind. The might even have beaten kerry if they met them in the championship earlier on. Considering they brought Tyrone to a replay and although they didnt play well the second day ( were on the way bvack until the goal ) , the must be in contention next year , if caffery can find a few extra players.

Don't think so.
Dublin played well against Tyrone for 1 half of football that's all, they were very luck to even get the replay.

All Dublin did was win Leinster againt Wexford and Loais both overrated.

There is a gap between Tyrone, Kerry, Armagh and the rest. That gap may get smaller with a ageing Armagh team the retirment to Peter Canavan and the fact that Seasus Moynihan is not getting any younger but if anyone else if going to win an All Ireland they will have to get through those 3 on the way.

hawker

Waylander wrote:

Do you not remember what happened last time Dublin met Kerry. Lets not get carried away here, I am a Dublin fan, but there is a fair gap between Armagh, Kerry and Tyrone down to the likes of Cork and Dublin.

I tend to agree. There are possibly five tiers in the football championship at the moment.

Kerry, Armagh and Tyrone in tier one.

Dublin, Laois, Cork, Galway and Mayo and Derry in tier two.

Offaly, Westmeath, Limerick, Kildare, Wexford, Donegal, Fermanagh, Meath, Cavan, Down, Monaghan in tier three.
Antrim, Sligo, Leitrim, Roscommon, Clare, Carlow, Longford in tier four.


Waterford, Tipperary, New York, London, Louth and Wicklow in tier five.


Obviously not every would agree with my choices but it's only my opinion.

The Rooster

I dont think anyone would argue that Dublin pushed Tyrone to the pin of their collars this year. In the second game, had it been Dublin who were awarded a penalty in the wrong, or Tyrone who had their best forward carried off, the result would have been a lot closer.

The tiers mentioned are probably not far wrong though, with Dublin, at this moment, top of tier 2 (and a few other counties might argue they're in tier 2). I think each of Tyrone (defending champs wont have the same hunger), Kerry (2 All Ireland finals in a row takes a lot out of a team) and Armagh (important players like McGeeney, McConville, Bellew ageing fast) will all be slightly less good next year, giving all the tier 2 counties a chance of victory. I'm certain there will be surprised just as there were last year when Tyrone (defending champs) and Armagh (two AI finals in a row) took "a break"!

With Dublin, the questionmark is whether the Tyrone performances were as good as it gets, or is there more improvement there? I can tell you as a follower of Dublin club football there is virtually nothing out there playerwise that wasnt on the panel this year. Darren Magee will have a full year so should improve midfield and we'd 2 young enough lads Fitzpatrick and O'Mahoney who were injured last year but may challenge for places at full back and midfield next year (IF they fulfill their potential). Otherwise we'll be relying on the younger existing players like Cullen, Griffin to improve, the older ones like Whelan to hang in there and subs like Vaughan to kick on and make the team.

Overall, I think Dublin have a very good chance next year (as many other counties do), but in 2007 the big 3 will be Tyrone, Kerry and Galway.

Lemlin

People have been saying for years that Armagh are ageing and won't be back. They've good young players coming through though from last year's U21 All-Ireland champions and this year's minor Ulster champions. They'll be back next year and their training methods and effort mean they'll be round for years to come.

Losing to Tyrone will kill their supporters more than anything. They simply hate losing to Canavan and co. That's why I think they are one team who will be fired up more than ever next year.

I'm also expecting Mayo to put up a good show now that Maughan has left and they can get the best players form the county into the team.

And I most certainly wouldn't put Dublin head of tier two like The Rooster said. Yet again they failed to beat any team from outside Leinster, once more showing the weakness of Leinster football. Yes, they drew with Tyrone but Cavan managed that too, and we are hardly world beaters.

One team I'm expecting big things from next year and in the coming years is Down. They've been ruling Ulster at underage level for quite a few years now, like Tyrone used to, and I'd imagine that they'll be the next big Ulster county to emerge.

merlinsmerryman

Watching yesterday the thing that would worry me as a Dublin fan is that we dont have a Colin Cooper or a Steven O'Neill both of these fabulous footballers kicked scores yesterday that the had no right to score and they look like they can do it everytime they get the ball but the Dublin forwards don't have the ability or confidence to do it.

They also don't seem to be able to link up with each other the way Tyrone's forwards can just look at Canavan's goal the play between him and Mulligan and then between Mulligan and O'Neill in the second half. Unless Dublin can develop that skill over the winter I cannt see them winning the All-Ireland next year, hope I'm wrong though.

The Rooster

Lemlin wrote:

And I most certainly wouldn't put Dublin head of tier two like The Rooster said. Yet again they failed to beat any team from outside Leinster, once more showing the weakness of Leinster football. Yes, they drew with Tyrone but Cavan managed that too, and we are hardly world beaters.

Surprise Surprise
We only played Tyrone from outside Leinster and gave them a helluva game, twice. Our defeated finalist from Leinster, Laois, comfortably beat Derry, Ulster's third best team this year, in the qualifers, just as we comfortably beat them a couple of years ago.

If you really want to put on a straight face and say Tyrone played anything like they did against Cavan the first day, when they were playing the Dubs then you've just lost whatever credibility you ever had. Cavan scored 8 times the first day v Tyrone and seven times the second - losing by a mere 21 points in the replay! Oh yeah, thats a perfect comparison to how Dublin did against Tyrone

Dublin's performances against Tyrone were the best of any team in the championship this year - apart from Tyrone, Kerry and Armagh. End of story.

Lemlin

Surprise Surprise
We only played Tyrone from outside Leinster and gave them a helluva game, twice. Our defeated finalist from Leinster, Laois, comfortably beat Derry, Ulster's third best team this year, in the qualifers, just as we comfortably beat them a couple of years ago.

If you really want to put on a straight face and say Tyrone played anything like they did against Cavan the first day, when they were playing the Dubs then you've just lost whatever credibility you ever had. Cavan scored 8 times the first day v Tyrone and seven times the second - losing by a mere 21 points in the replay! Oh yeah, thats a perfect comparison to how Dublin did against Tyrone

Dublin's performances against Tyrone were the best of any team in the championship this year - apart from Tyrone, Kerry and Armagh. End of story.

That's the thing about Cavan. The first day we stopped Tyrone scoring. Something few teams managed. In the replay, they hammered us. Cavan didn't turn up, I admitted that months ago.

Dublin didn't give such a great second showing against Tyrone either. Let's not forget that only Dessie Farrell's consolation goal stopped Dublin from being beaten by their biggest margin in the championship in years (see, I can do clever smiley faces too! Doesn't make my points any better though!!!!).

And you've showed my point exactly. Dublin only faced one team from outside Leinster, and they lost (there's another special effect for ya, I can underline things). Therefore how can you say that they are a better team than Cork, Galway or Mayo? Maybe you can say they're better than Derry but that's also debatable.

Forgive me if I'm trying to keep your feet on the ground.

Waylander

No Lemlin, you are just talking crap. What does it matter how many teams outside Leinster they played. They lost one championship game all season, and that was to the eventual champions, aftertaking them too a replay, and then losing a dodgy penalty in the first ten minutes of that game. Are you really that narrow minded that you cannot say fair dues well done?

powerage22

I think the dubs are short maybe two or three quality players, particularly in the forwards. Caffrey has instilled a bit of steel to the side, so they dont fold as easy as some previous sides. If they can find these, they won't be too far off the mark next year

Culchie

I don't think the Dubs are anyway near being good enough to take on the big 3. Not an anti-Dub statement, just an honest assessment relevant to the other 29 counties as well.

The bar has been raised to heights never seen before. It takes years to lay the foundations to win an All Ireland.

I cannot for the life of me see any other winner than Tyrone, Armagh or Kerry for the next 3 years at the very least.....even then it looks like Down are going to be the new kids on the block.

blackbelt

I don't want to rain on anybodies parade but isn't it unfair to deal in absolutes in saying that these three teams ie kerry tyrone and armagh can't be touched by Dublin,Cork,Galway and Mayo?...or any team for that matter.

if we didn't have this back-door rule we wouldn't have had this kerry-tyrone final as tyrone were beaten by armagh this year.Mayo beat Tyrone last year in the all ireland and dublin beat tyrone in the league just gone.and yeah i know people are going to say "pfft the league".but what difference does it make?you play to win whether its a league,all ireland or just a friendly.

Dublin are a young team that can only get better as time goes on.I think Dublin proved that they are on top of tier 2 by the way they played this year.cork got annihilated by kerry and laois got hammered by armagh.dublin forced tyrone to a replay and although they got beat convincibly in the replay they still took it to tyrone.

dublin had two or three bad decisions against them in that match that made things look worse for them ie the penalty.

i disagree that there exists a huge gap between the top three and Dublin(in particular) and teams like mayo galway.if you want to talk about gaps then we should refer to tyrone,kerry,armagh,dublin,mayo,galway and to a lesser extent laois in comparison to the other 26 counties.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Dublin make the semi finals next year although i don't think they will win.that 10-15mins when they go asleep is always crucial and costs them.

i was at the match on sunday and tyrone played the cleanest football i have seen them play in a long time.I think another difference maker is the refereeing in the matches.kerry were hard done by in some of the decisions like dublin were.

McClane

Dublin in 4th position behind the big 3 ? HA HA HA

Talk about bias.

Culchie

blackbelt wrote:

I don't want to rain on anybodies parade but isn't it unfair to deal in absolutes in saying that these three teams ie kerry tyrone and armagh can't be touched by Dublin,Cork,Galway and Mayo?...or any team for that matter.

There are no absolutes in Sport, only opinions, and I've given mine, that's all.

Dublin went close to beating Tyrone this year, Mayo did beat them last year, however but that lack of Killer instinct, tactical nouse, didn't deliver them Sam.

I don't doubt that Dublin couldn't get to the semi next year (or Mayo or Cork or Galway) .... even the final if the draw is kind to them, or if the big guns collide on the way, however, I'd be as sure as I ever have been about GAA football in predicting that the 2006 and 2007 champions will also be either Tyrone, Armagh or Kerry.

Only my opinion

blackbelt

I think you are right culchie.those three teams are formiddable as hell and would be no surprise to see them win.Peoples opinions about this gap between the big three and the rest is their opinion and is neither right or wrong...its an opinion.

my opinion is that yes these teams are the best three but no such gap exists.especially in GAA when you are talking about the top 5 or 6.my dream is to see a mayo-dublin final.mayo where my family is from and dublin where i was born and live.no matter the outcome of that match i wouldn't be disappointed.

and mcclane i want to ask where you are from.Dublin are fourth best behind the top 3 whether im from dublin,dubai or adu dhabi.if you watched the championship this year you might agree because dublin won leinster and made a good account of themselves against tyrone in the quarters.they never lost heart in comparison to cork and laois.so tell me where you are from and we can talk about bias then.

Culchie

blackbelt wrote:

Dublin are fourth best behind the top 3 whether im from dublin,dubai or adu dhabi.

cough, splutter 4th or 5th anyway

Yavvy

what is the story with young dubs comming through ?
apart from the lads we seen this year there must be more

Mark Vaughan, mossy, Brian cullen, dessie farrell , "Shocko" and liam Og are the ones that spring to mind. do we have a batch of Darren Homan (its a shame to see him retired early) replacements anywhere ?

bring back vinny murphy !

The Rooster

Well Culchie or McClane if Dublin werent the 4th best team in the country - who was? Dublin outperformed Laois, Mayo, Galway, Cork and Derry this year. Not sure why thats so hard to take-in for the anti-Dubs.

As I mentioned in my earlier post, it counts for feck all next year - nobody knows whether Dublin will go back, standstill or push on. Though I'm sure we'll see an improvement from all the teams I just mentioned.

They probably won't reach the standards of the big 3, but I think 2006 could throw up a surprise winner. Especially if Tyrone and Armagh both make the Ulster Final, in which case only one of the Big 3 could make the All Ireland final. That would leave the door open for a Connacht or Leinster team, or another team who lost out early in their province, to make the All Ireland final. Sure, they'd be likely to be big underdogs in the final, but that would only help them. Surprises do happen, and I believe there's a good chance of one in 2006 - the question is which county will emerge to take this opportunity.

Only two potential replacements out there for Homan as far as I can see (for next year anyway) - O'Mahoney and Coughlan. Both have had limited chances so far with not much success. Next year we should see whether one or both of them have what it takes or not. But I suppose Whelan and Magee will be the first choice pairing for the year.

Culchie

The Rooster wrote:

Well Culchie or McClane if Dublin werent the 4th best team in the country - who was? Dublin outperformed Laois, Mayo, Galway, Cork and Derry this year. Not sure why thats so hard to take-in for the anti-Dubs.

Rooster, you should know my sentiments by now fairly enough. Just because I don't agree with you does not make me an "anti-Dub". I don't necessarily disagree with you either, my personal opinion is they are 4th or 5th....I dunno, I'd say if they played 10 times, it could be 4 each and two draws....it's not a life or death moment for me either way.

Dublin didn't play Mayo, Cork, Galway or Derry this year in the Championship, so we'll never know if would 'outperform' them

Lemlin

This is going the way arguments on this board always go. The Dubs arguing that Dublin are good and the culchies, like myself, trying to keep yas grounded.

Originally posted by The Rooster
Well Culchie or McClane if Dublin werent the 4th best team in the country - who was? Dublin outperformed Laois, Mayo, Galway, Cork and Derry this year. Not sure why thats so hard to take-in for the anti-Dubs.

First off, how did Dublin outperform Cork, Mayo or Galway? All 4 went to the quarter finals. And Cork actually outperformed Dublin by getting to the semis, whether they were hammered there or not. Therefore, your argument is not only flawed but just downright wrong. Culchie has already pointed this out.

Second off, could people please stop hiding behind refereeing decisions. Yes, there were two of three debatable decisions against Dublin but, if you go to any Championship game, there are always debatable decisions. Its part and parcel of the game. You have grow up, stop whingeing about them and get on with it like the players do themselves!

they never lost heart in comparison to cork and laois.so tell me where you are from and we can talk about bias then.

Never lost heart - First, Lally gets a bollicking from Cluxton, then Peadar Andrews starts into Cluxton for targetting Lally and then Sherlock runs the pitch to lay into Lally. Hardly great team spirit. And I have it on good merit that this all happened from several people who were at the game (two friends of mine were watching Lally especially closely because they're Brigids teammates of his).

You may say Cork and Laois were hammered but Dublin were very close to their biggest Championship defeat in nearly 20 years. How can you say they've moved rapidly forward then?

I'm not an anti-Dub either, although several of you think I am. Fact is that I'm trying to point out bias in the views expressed. If Dublin were so good, don't you think you'd see some people from outside Dublin coming on here praising them? You seem to think we're all jealous begrudgers down the country but I have no problem giving credit where it is due.

Imposter

I think what it boils down to is that Dublin had a very successful season by their standards (that's not a jibe) and some Dubs think it is the natural order while others think it was just a flash in the pan. Next year, or even the next few years will tell us which is correct.

Same goes for some of the so called 2nd and 3rd tier teams mentioned earlier (other tiers too if you want tot look at everyone and not provincial/all-ireland contenders).

Lemlin

Originally posted by Imposter
I think what it boils down to is that Dublin had a very successful season by their standards (that's not a jibe) and some Dubs think it is the natural order while others think it was just a flash in the pan. Next year, or even the next few years will tell us which is correct.

Same goes for some of the so called 2nd and 3rd tier teams mentioned earlier (other tiers too if you want tot look at everyone and not provincial/all-ireland contenders).

Finally, we have it, well done Imposter. An unbiased view by a Dub. Yes, Dublin had a great season by their standards but it doesn't make them the 4th best team in the country. They're one of the best 8, some people would say 12, but I'm willing to say the best 8.

jacool

Here's an unbiased view !! (but only mine so be gentle !)
I believe that the top three are a good bit clear of the rest, but worryingly for Kerry, they are third in that list. It was a little unfortunate that the GAA meddled with the 'open draw' at quarter-finals stage thus giving us a chance for 4 re-matches as opposed to the fun and games that an open draw could have given us. As regards the Dubs, I believe that of the so-called second tier, only they and Cork have shown promise and possible potential to bridge the gap. I love watching Galway and Laois but the harsh realities of the third-man tacking and off-the-ball skullduggery (please don't deny this occurs !) are that these physically 'lightweight' sides will always get worn down. Dublin have always been physical and strong, the necessities required from now on in as the game of football changes, hopefully not forever though. Cork have an excellent manager as their main positive, Billy knows his football. They have changed their training etc this year and may reap the rewards next year or more-than-likely after that (could learn from 'professional' hurlers).
So for 2006, Sam will probably go north again, but if the open draw is really open then who knows who may meet there ? For the Dubs, a final place at best, then how many balls can "the Hill" suck into the net ?

Imposter

Please retract that statement. I am not, have never been and never want to be classed as a dub
Thanks.

Lemlin

Please retract that statement. I am not, have never been and never want to be classed as a dub
Thanks.

Oh right, sorry. Thought you were. You have my sincerest apologies. I wouldn't wish being a Dub on anyone!

Waylander

Lemlin wrote:

I'm not an anti-Dub either, although several of you think I am. Fact is that I'm trying to point out bias in the views expressed. If Dublin were so good, don't you think you'd see some people from outside Dublin coming on here praising them? You seem to think we're all jealous begrudgers down the country but I have no problem giving credit where it is due.

Don't make me laugh, you have been anti Dub since your first post in this forum. You can't help yourself. I agree that Dublin would be ranked somewhere between 4th and 8th, I would personally have them 4th or 5th but that is an opinion. Anyone who has 9 or 10 teams ranked better then them clearly does not have a clue what they are talking about.

blackbelt

Lemlin when i say Dublin never lost heart I meant that in the context of the way they conducted themselves and played in the matches.

When dublin were in trouble against tyrone in the first match,dublin never quit and forced a replay.Dublin did this against meath,wexford and laois as well as the replay against tyrone.

the only difference between those games and the tyrone replay was that they were close matches. and even in the tyrone replay dublin never gave up in comparison to laois and cork against armagh and kerry respectively.

i would argue my opinion that dublin are fourth or fifth.the gap between dublin and mayo is debatable but if dublin played kerry in the semi instead of cork,we would have seen a tighter game of football instead of of a total annihilation.

thats why Dublin would be ranked higher than cork and galway.taking nothing away from cork but they got an easier path to the semi finals than the others bar kerry.

if you look at the statistics and the facts and the last 4 years you will see that any team to beat dublin in the quarters has gone on to win the all ireland.

armagh in 2002,tyrone in 2003,kerry in 2004 and tyrone again in 2005.Dublin football has to be in the top 5 because they were beaten by the big 3 in the last four years.thats why people talk about this gap.

Lemlin

Originally posted by Waylander
Don't make me laugh, you have been anti Dub since your first post in this forum. You can't help yourself. I agree that Dublin would be ranked somewhere between 4th and 8th, I would personally have them 4th or 5th but that is an opinion. Anyone who has 9 or 10 teams ranked better then them clearly does not have a clue what they are talking about.

I think there's a big difference between being an anti-Dub and tring to keep you lads grounded. Some of yas are seriously biased. To say that Dublin are better than Galway, Cork or Mayo is just downright wrong. Dublin won leinster this year lads, that was it, and a poor Leinster at that. They haven't conquered the world just yet.

Originally posted by Blackbelt
Lemlin when i say Dublin never lost heart I meant that in the context of the way they conducted themselves and played in the matches.

When dublin were in trouble against tyrone in the first match,dublin never quit and forced a replay.Dublin did this against meath,wexford and laois as well as the replay against tyrone.

the only difference between those games and the tyrone replay was that they were close matches. and even in the tyrone replay dublin never gave up in comparison to laois and cork against armagh and kerry respectively.

i would argue my opinion that dublin are fourth or fifth.the gap between dublin and mayo is debatable but if dublin played kerry in the semi instead of cork,we would have seen a tighter game of football instead of of a total annihilation.

thats why Dublin would be ranked higher than cork and galway.taking nothing away from cork but they got an easier path to the semi finals than the others bar kerry.

if you look at the statistics and the facts and the last 4 years you will see that any team to beat dublin in the quarters has gone on to win the all ireland.

armagh in 2002,tyrone in 2003,kerry in 2004 and tyrone again in 2005.Dublin football has to be in the top 5 because they were beaten by the big 3 in the last four years.thats why people talk about this gap.

Hehe, I love your selective thinking here. And if you're such a great Dubs fan do you not know that it was Armagh who put Dublin out in 2003 again? That's what I mean about Dublin fans and their supposed great knowledge of GAA, I'm not even from Dublin and I remember that game (Cluxton's sending off).

And that was only after they'd lost to Laois. In 2004, Kerry did put them out, but only after they'd lost to Wexford. Therefore your theory about Dublin losing to one of the 'big three' each year is, yet again, wrong.

And how do you know that Dublin would not of been totally annihilated by Kerry like Cork were? They didn't play so you don't know. Therefore you cannot say that Dublin would of put up any better a show than Cork did. You may think it but that's just your opinion.

Armagh did not win the All-Ireland in 2003 so that's another part of your theory that is wrong. In all fairness, if you are going to post up information, please check it up.

And talking of easy paths to quarter or semi finals, take a look at Dublin's last year!

blackbelt

lemlin your reading and answering skills are amazing,if you actually read the post i said armagh won it in 2002,tyrone in 2003,kerry in 2004 and tyrone in 2005.

so lemlin read peoples posts first before you and your lemlins rise again.

secondly,correct me for being wrong about dublin losing in 2003 to tyrone but the fact remains that dublin have been beaten by the big three in the last three years anyway.

Dublin have that never say die attitude and i can guarantee that dublin would not let kerry annihilate them.thats more of a cavan thing :rolleyes:

hence Cavan being humiliated by tyrone in their replay.

and armagh beating dublin in 2003,well in truth my theory is not wrong as armagh did indeed reach the final that year.

you brand dublin fans as thinking they have a great knowledge of gaa.well gaa guru.if its ok with you i would like to say i was wrong.i mean what the f*** was i thinking?? my memory served me wrong when armagh bet dublin in 2003.i never said armagh won sam in 2003 so yet again you are WRONG :rolleyes:

The Rooster

Lemlin wrote:

First off, how did Dublin outperform Cork, Mayo or Galway?

By playing better than them in the 2005 championship.
Because they did.
Mayo had a relatively poor year this year. They played badly against Galway and Kerry. Well below what they are capable of. Hangover from the All Ireland defeat a year before no doubt. You’d expect to see them improve a lot next year.
Galway are an improving side. Good enough to just see off Mayo, but weren’t able for Cork. I’m sure they’ll improve every year for the next few years, but this year nobody could say their performances matched Dublin’s.
Cork played alright in the first game v Kerry. Never really got within touching distance, but didn’t get blown away either. Played very well v Galway, and then appalingly v Kerry. Overall its between them and Dublin as to who were the 4th best team in the championship this year. Comparing Cork’s two performances against the runners-up to Dublin’s two against the champions, I believe its clear Dublin edge it. Of course you can’t say for sure who’d have won had they played.
And it all counts for nothing for next year. As I said I'm fairly sure both Galway and Mayo will improve, I find it harder to predict whether Dublin or Cork will.

Lemlin wrote:

Cork actually outperformed Dublin by getting to the semis, whether they were hammered there or not. Therefore, your argument is not only flawed but just downright wrong.

You don’t know what the word performance means. Maybe this thread is a bit too high brow for you Lemlin?

Lemlin wrote:

You may say Cork and Laois were hammered but Dublin were very close to their biggest Championship defeat in nearly 20 years. How can you say they've moved rapidly forward then?

Highlighting your ignorance of the game of football again Lemlin.

Lemlin wrote:

In 2004, Kerry did put them (Dublin) out, but only after they'd lost to Wexford.

In all fairness, if you are going to post up information, please check it up.

Ha Ha Ha
You’ve just fallen off that high horse of yours.
Dry your eyes.

Lemlin

Oh sorry, it was Westmeath. It still shoots about 50 holes in Blackbelt's argument that Dublin were beaten only by the 'big three'.

And am I supposed to know every team Dublin lose to? They're a team I loathe. If you were asking me about Cavan, it would be a different story.

It really makes me laugh the way yas are trying to get Dublin as high in the ratings as yas can. Cavan made the last 12 in the Championship. I'd be proud to say that Cavan are one of the top 12 teams in the country, even 12th best (not that I think they are, I think they're one of the top 16).

Fact is though that all your statistics here are based on opinions. And they're your opinions. We don't know how Dublin would of done against Cork or Mayo, they didn't play. We don't even know how they would of done against Galway, or even Derry.

I'm actually going to leave yas too it lads. Reading your biased views of Dublin GAA is giving me a better laugh than I'd get from watching re-runs of Father Ted!

mchurl

Dublin are definetly 4th or 5th best in the country.

The argue ment for cork is poor asthey had an easy run to the quarter finals as they played no half decent teams until kerry and then lost to them. beat a team in the quarters that just didnt perform at all and then were annihilated in the semi's.

I would then rate derry ahead of both galway and mayo as they are a more battle hardened side and they also have to come through the quagmire that is ulster.

but even in saying the dubs are 4th or 5th best we are still 2 maybe even 3 quality forwards and 2 quality wing backs off challenging the elite three.

Waylander

So you are not an anti Dub lemlin, they are just a team you loathe. I could tell you what you are but I would probably get banned and you are not worth that kind of aggravation. Also, who are you to keep my opinions of the team I support grounded, and why do you think that is needed. Pre season I said Dublin would win Leinster, but probably would not progress all that much further, remind me again how the season panned out. You said in a previous thread you were going to stop posting in these Dublin threads as Dublin fans were getting quite worked up by what you were saying, you really should have stood by your decision.

From day 1 on this forum you have taken every available opportunity to crticise Dublin and their fans, and I have now concluded the only thing you are good for is mouthing off as there is no element of objectivity about your posts regarding Dublin at all. I found myself watching Cavn and hoping they would lose this season purely because I was sick and tired of your rants. Do us a favour Lemlin, give us all a break.

Lemlin

So you are not an anti Dub lemlin, they are just a team you loathe. I could tell you what you are but I would probably get banned and you are not worth that kind of aggravation. Also, who are you to keep my opinions of the team I support grounded, and why do you think that is needed. Pre season I said Dublin would win Leinster, but probably would not progress all that much further, remind me again how the season panned out. You said in a previous thread you were going to stop posting in these Dublin threads as Dublin fans were getting quite worked up by what you were saying, you really should have stood by your decision.

From day 1 on this forum you have taken every available opportunity to crticise Dublin and their fans, and I have now concluded the only thing you are good for is mouthing off as there is no element of objectivity about your posts regarding Dublin at all. I found myself watching Cavn and hoping they would lose this season purely because I was sick and tired of your rants. Do us a favour Lemlin, give us all a break.

Yes, they are a team I loathe but I am capable of giving you an unbiased opinion. I never said I was keeping you grounded. You were right about Leinster and I give you that. All the way through, I also said that Dublin's games would be tight and never wrote them off in any Leinster game, if you remember.

The people I was grounding are those like Blackbelt and The Rooster who assume that Dublin are automatically the 4th best team in the country because they drew with Tyrone.

I have no problem placing Dublin in the top 8 in the country, as I've said, but they are definitely not near Kerry, Tyrone or Armagh, and only in the same league as Mayo, Cork and Galway, would you not agree?

Fact is that their are very biased views on this forum. For example, people tipping Alan Brogan for player of the year, would you put money on him winning it? I certainly don't know many who would, and I doubt bookies even have him on their shortlist.

I did say that but I can't sit back and listen to the tripe that is being said. Dublin are a good team, yes, the fourth best team in the country? No.

blackbelt

Contradiction all the way for you lemlin or should i call you gaa guru.You are very biased against Dublin as you just said that Dublin are a team that you loathe.So your argument is piss poor as well.You want to say you are keeping my opinioin and roosters opinion grounded but you are grounding yourself with your supposed "knowledge" of the game.You tell me to check my information before posting on this site and yet you didn't check yours.Saying Dublin lost to Wexford.

Dublin gave every team they played this year a match,which is more than i can say for Cork who let Kerry own them.In the thread entitled team of the year you put your goalkeeper Reilly in the starting 15.So to say you are not biased is like me saying my club are better than the all ireland champions.

I have a very good argument that Dublin are fourth best.What i question is this,where exactly do you place Cavan?Give me a position and we'll discuss it Lemlin,then I will "ground" your opinion.

Lemlin

Contradiction all the way for you lemlin or should i call you gaa guru.You are very biased against Dublin as you just said that Dublin are a team that you loathe.So your argument is piss poor as well.You want to say you are keeping my opinioin and roosters opinion grounded but you are grounding yourself with your supposed "knowledge" of the game.You tell me to check my information before posting on this site and yet you didn't check yours.Saying Dublin lost to Wexford.

Dublin gave every team they played this year a match,which is more than i can say for Cork who let Kerry own them.In the thread entitled team of the year you put your goalkeeper Reilly in the starting 15.So to say you are not biased is like me saying my club are better than the all ireland champions.

I have a very good argument that Dublin are fourth best.What i question is this,where exactly do you place Cavan?Give me a position and we'll discuss it Lemlin,then I will "ground" your opinion.

Sorry for getting two teams that begin with 'W' and are from the same province wrong. I had Westmeath in my mind but typed Wexford. Either way, it proved your point wrong.

Anyway, you're a Dublin fan, you should have an in-depth knowledge of your own team. As a fan of Dublin, I wouldn't expect you to need to check your information. I wouldn't have to check any information about Cavan from the last five years or more. Give me a test if you like.

You keep bringing up Reilly, and at the time it was not only me who suggested him. You were alone in suggesting Cluxton though As I said, he was getting write-ups from plenty of papers, constantly getting man of the match awards and saving penalties from 'stars' like Brendan Devenney. Therefore Reilly had just cause to be mentioned, Cluxton did not. I later went back on this though and said it should go to Hearty. I still stick by this, Hearty should get it.

What is your argument? That they drew with Tyrone. I can't see any argument anyone has put forward why Dublin are better than Cork, Galway or Mayo. How can you say that Dublin would not of let Kerry "own them" as you put it? They let them the year before.

As for Cavan, as I said above (if you read my posts, you seemed to miss me answering about you saying I was biased regarding Reilly too), I would like to think Cavan are near the top 12 as they reached the last round of the qualifiers. I'd place them in the top 16 though. So, get on with your grounding.....

blackbelt

Lemlin,this is nothing personal here.Just to clear that up.

I just disagree with you about your stance as it relates to peoples opinions and Dublin football.Its my opinion that Dublin are 4th best judging from this years performance in the all ireland.You have the same argument for Cavan as they reached the last 16 through the qualifiers.I'll start my grounding when you give me and the people an exact position where you think Cavan are in that 16.

I do not think that Dublin got humiliated last year by Kerry.They were always within touching distance.this past year in the league,Dublin came close to defeating Kerry.Only one goal separated the two teams.Thats how close Dublin-Kerry matches are.Cork had no creativity in defense or midfield against Kerry in the semi final.Their physical approach was better off the ball rather than on the ball.However,I do agree with your Mayo argument.Its debatable who is 4th or 5th.I think Dublin are 4th judging by the fact Dublin defeated Mayo in the league and I dare say showed a little bit more determination.

But thats up for debate come February when the league starts and in May when the All Ireland starts.Its my opinion Dublin are fourth best at the moment from what I saw in the championship.These are opinions and not statements of fact Lemlin.(notice I use capitals for your name now)

I'll give you my opinion on Cavan.I'd put Cavan 12th place.

I'll give you an order/My opinion based on the last two championships.

1.Tyrone
2.Armagh
3.Kerry
4.Dublin
5.Mayo
6.Cork
7.Galway
8.Laois
9.Limerick
10.Derry
11.Wexford
12.Cavan
13.Clare
14.Down
15.Fermanagh
16.Donegal

they in my opinion are where the top 16 stand.This is not a statement of fact but my opinion on where these teams stand.

Culchie

blackbelt wrote:

Its debatable who is 4th or 5th.I think Dublin are 4th judging by the fact Dublin defeated Mayo in the league .

We wuz robbed !

blackbelt

Its possible they were Sure we all get robbed

Dublin were raped,mugged and murdered in Castlebar last year :eek:

Culchie

Your football team lost as well

blackbelt

Aaah but Culchie,Dublin got their own back this year in Parnell Park,Donnycarney

Its always a pleasure to see mayo and dublin play.Me thinks they will play down the west this year?any confirmations on this

Lemlin

I wouldn't think of League form as the deciding factor between two teams. Sure Cavan lost to Meath in the league but then beat them in the Championship.

Players lift their game for the Championship. Its just a fact of life.

Can't see how you'd place Dublin 4th if its based on the last two Championships either. They lost to Westmeath last year and had the easiest run to the quarter finals a team could have before Kerry trounced them.

And how are Derry below Limerick? Beat them this year and went to the semis last year.

Culchie

Lemlin wrote:

I wouldn't think of League form as the deciding factor between two teams. Sure Cavan lost to Meath in the league but then beat them in the Championship.

Players lift their game for the Championship. Its just a fact of life.

Can't see how you'd place Dublin 4th if its based on the last two Championships either. They lost to Westmeath last year and had the easiest run to the quarter finals a team could have before Kerry trounced them.

And how are Derry below Limerick? Beat them this year and went to the semis last year.

Relax Lemlin

We're not going to be able to prove anything, it's not science, it cant be imperically proved.

There's feck all between them at the moment anyway, none of them are anywhere near good enough to be thinking of Sam next year either.

Waylander

Like a dog with a bone!

Lemlin

Or a crazed Dublin supporter overestimating his team's quality

McClane

Dublin aren't within a country mile of Tyrone, Armagh or Kerry and are certainly not the 4th best in the Country.

I'd put them close to Galway/Mayo/Cork but not as good as any of them.

Waylander

Can we rename this thread "How to flog A dead horse!"

Culchie

When I get my Playstation GAA game ( ), I going to pick Dublin and having them running around in Green Jerseys with a gold trim. and the ball is going to hop over the bar for a famous win and Dublin captain Ciaran Giles will lift the Sam in Breffni Park, the new HQ of the GAA.

Waylander

May God strike you down for such blasphemeing!