Eircom League - Genesis III

[Jackass]

I for one feel the EL has come on leaps and bounds over the past 5 - 10 years, and has commercial value, entertainment value, and much higher standards of players, facilities and expertise.

But we will never be able to compete with the PL in England, especially not with a mundane structure that we have. The Setanta cup was a big success because it was something new, it was exciting, and it had the feel of European football, and a real prize at stake also. And I think that kind of thinking is the way forward. So what can be done?

Well I read a very interesting article by Gerry McDermott (Irish Independent) about Aussie football, and the formats they changed over there to make it unusual and much more exciting, and putting universal structure into their league to make it more competitive and more appealing to the common football fan. Anyway, it got me very excited to see what will happen over the coming days with announcements from the Genesis report, Eircom League, FAI and hopefully over the coming years with developments!

Gerry McDermott - Boot Room wrote:

Some day soon those very busy people in genesis are going to roll out their third report into Irish soccer. Genesis III will be a white paper on the Eircom league, and is expected to outline the path to success on and off the field for domestic football. It will be interesting to see if they will make any comparisons between soccer in Ireland ad in Australia, because experiences "down under" are very similar to those "up here". Eighteen months ago, Australians took a long hard look at their national league, and concluded that all was not well. It was facing intense competition in the domestic market from more dominant codes of football and while they had low television ratings for the domestic game, there was high interest in television coverage in Champions league and premiership soccer. They also had low gates, low revenues and low wages, with many clubs experiencing financial problems. Those same problems are replicated in the Eircom League and when Genesis deliver in the coming days we're going to find out if Irish soccer has the balls to tackle them in the same forthright manner as Australians. They disbanded their domestic flagship, The National Soccer League, and launched the A-League, which kicked off four weeks ago. They have eight clubs, seven of which are based in separate Australian cities, with the other in Auckland, New Zealand. Each team has a squad of 20 players and a salary cap of $1.5m Australian dollars for 19 players, which is around €950,000. The other player is a marquee player who can be paid as much as the club can afford, so Sydney were able to splash out €500,000 on Dwight York, to bring their salary spend to just under €1.5m. They signed an exclusive television deal with a cable sports channel, attracted a blue-chip sponsor in Hyundai, and ran a television commercial aimed at youth in Australia and New Zealand. Their target audiences are the 16 - 24-year-olds, as well as old soccer supporters from the defunct National Soccer League and families. The campaign worked, as the opening weekend saw a cumulative attendance in excess of 70,000 at the four games and although this figure dropped by week four, it was still at 46,605, which represents a average attendance of 11,000 per game and is very much in line with their projections. Here in Ireland, some clubs in the Eircom League Premier Division, some clubs have an annual payroll of between €1m and €2m and are only attracting ten percent of the Australian gate. At the recent "Money, Marketing, and Media" seminar organised by the Eircom League, Professor Bill Gerrard of Leeds University Business School presented the A-League as a case study for the delegates to consider and then made several suggestions. He proposed the introduction of a salary cap in the Eircom League and suggested that the marquee principle could also be used to attract popular veteran Irish stars back home or sign highly skillful players who can pull in the crowds. Although the average weekly attendance of 12,000 is up six percent on last season, it's only a quarter the size of the A-League and it is probably costing more per spectator than Australia. Gerrard suggests the introduction of championship play-offs to make the title race more exciting and increase attendances. The Australians have been radical and innovative in a bid to save their domestic game and the Eircom league may soon find that they have no choice but to follow suit.

So what do you think? Would you like to see domestic football start from scratch? New League, New teams, new structure? How would you feel about your current club being disbanded? Do you think it could ever happen? Would you allow it to? Possibly merge some clubs? And how would you like to see the new format implemented if you do support it?

I’ve got to be honest and say that I think this is exactly what we need to do. I think only 2 Dublin teams (North and South) would focus massive resources onto just 2 teams, create direct rivalry over 2 teams like a Man U. V Man City or Liverpool V Everton as apposed to C. Palace V Arsenal Westh Ham V Chelsea scenario, which makes it much more appealing commercially, and teams can span vast areas of the country to incorporate a large amount of fans who have no representation in Eircom league.

Also it would be great if we could make it an All-Ireland league and incorporate 1 or 2 teams from the north, which will add even more rivalry and spice to the mix.

I think the one of the reasons the Eircom League fails is because there are too many Dublin teams, always moving around, and it alienates the would-be new supporter, and people just don’t identify with the clubs, so generally don’t care. But if you can generate rivalry, people will care, and want to get involved and watch.

We need to pool our resources between far less clubs (10 max) with only 1 league, and make additional funds off-loading all the excess assets. Hopefully make a major project out of it, and get large government backing, build quality facilities. Hopefully be able to attract a new caliber player…who knows?

I think it could be more exciting, more commercial, and potentially, very successful.

KdjaCL

Yes i for one think Pats should merge with Rovers i cant wait to support St Shamrock Athletic, i mean myself and 4000 other pats fans cant wait. Also Rovers fans will take us to their hearts.


Theres a huge thread just below with the same discussion.
Bottom line the EL doesnt need it for a few reasons.

1.top 3 teams playing better football than ever before.
2.top teams getting more in the gate that ever before.
3.Top 3 getting further in Europe than teams in Spl and PL.
4top 4 getting into Setanta and getting closer to real big pay day all ireland league.

The only thing the league needs it better grounds, it used to need more coverage but TG4, setanta ,Ollie Byrne and Roddy Coillins fighting have done more than enough this season to cover that.

kdjac

MrJoeSoap

DubGuy are you an Eircom League fan?

_blank_

Would you like to see domestic football start from scratch?
No

New League, New teams, new structure?
New teams? What happens to Shels then?

How would you feel about your current club being disbanded?
Crap.

Do you think it could ever happen?
I don't see it ever happening

Would you allow it to?
If Shels was disbanded I would probably try to form, or be part of the formation, of something like Football Club United of Manchester, as I would think many supporters of the current eL clubs would. A new League of Ireland with made up clubs would lose the core support of the current league.

Possibly merge some clubs?
You speak about "2 Dublin Clubs, one North, one South". Which in effect means the merging the Shels and Bohs. I could not envisage supporting any club that has anything to do with Bohemians Football Club. "Shelhemians"? "Bohbourne"? "North Dublin FC"? Give me a break. I support Shelbourne FC. No-one else.

Also it would be great if we could make it an All-Ireland league and incorporate 1 or 2 teams from the north, which will add even more rivalry and spice to the mix.
I'd like to see this. Possibly a 16 team Premier League, but the logistics of this need to be sorted out.

DubGuy wrote:

I think the one of the reasons the Eircom League fails is because there are too many Dublin teams, always moving around, and it alienates the would-be new supporter, and people just don’t identify with the clubs, so generally don’t care. But if you can generate rivalry, people will care, and want to get involved and watch.

Bohs play in Dalymount.
Shels play in Tolka Park.
Pats play in The Stadium of Light :eek:
UCD play in Belfield.
Rovers are homeless, for the time being.
Dublin City are in the First this season.

Too many Dublin teams, you say. Well, the teams that are playing in the Premier and First division are there on merit. What do you propose, a limit on the amount of teams from any particular region from getting promotion, or something even more sinister in my eyes, no relegation from the top division, with only 10 teams playing for the league title year in year out?

DubGuy wrote:

We need to pool our resources between far less clubs (10 max) with only 1 league, and make additional funds off-loading all the excess assets. Hopefully make a major project out of it, and get large government backing, build quality facilities. Hopefully be able to attract a new caliber player…who knows?

We should have only ten clubs in the country, have them play each other every season, with no room for another club to make any headway?

If we go down that route, as they have done with the Australian A-League, then the only calibre of player attracted will be the likes of Dwight Yorke, after an easy pay cheque.

KdjaCL

seansouth wrote:

Shelhemians

I like it quite catchy.


kdjac

soma

That's interesting that one of the teams in the Oz league is from New Zealand..?
The reason I always heard that we couldnt have an All-Ireland league was cos that would mean we could also only field one national team for the north and south i.e. "Ireland".

So what gives..? Obviously both Australia & New Zealand still have their own national teams, yet at least some of their teams share a league.

Pigman II

It's the NASL all over again http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Soccer_League and we all know what a long term success that was.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The average Irish punter doesn't care about quality, star-power or success,all he's after is an 'occasion'. If you can fill the grounds every week and have a great athmosphere in the stands then he'll be desperate to come along and watch any old muck.

Personaly I applaud the english football league who are now allowing kids in free to matches if accompanied by an adult. The idea over there is just to 'get them young' and make a life long fan out of them but I think it could work two-fold for the EL clubs as it'd fill up some of those empty seats that are subconciously telling punters who watch games on tv "look ,nobodys here! this league is total rubbish"

KdjaCL

Pigman II wrote:

Personaly I applaud the english football league who are now allowing kids in free to matches if accompanied by an adult. This is a proposal that the EL clubs should seriously consider in order to fill all those empty seats and

Thats an on/ off thing, should be every week but Pats for one would have it one week but not another.

kdjac

Benedict XVI

Pigman II wrote:

It's the NASL all over again http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Soccer_League and we all know what a long term success that was

The NASL went out of business 21 years ago and as the Wikipedia article says the current MSL has learnt from it's mistakes and has more relastic plans for the future.
I'd imagine the at A-League are looking at how MSL do things rather than how the NASL did things.

Pigman II

Benedict XVI wrote:

The NASL went out of business 21 years ago and as the Wikipedia article says the current MSL has learnt from it's mistakes and has more relastic plans for the future.
I'd imagine the at A-League are looking at how MSL do things rather than how the NASL did things.

It's the same basic premise tho. In my opinion over a long term you cannot just package football and sell to the public like a trip to the cinema.

What the EL have to do is ask people who go to internationals or GAA championship matches WHY they go and WHAT makes these particular events important to them. They should then replicate this experience rather than just trying to follow various football models. It's an Irish solution for an Irish problem.

soma

Pigman II wrote:

What the EL have to do is ask people who go to internationals or GAA championship matches WHY they go and WHAT makes these particular events important to them.

Yeah the "event" thing is a good point - tickets are hard to come by for GAA All-Ireland games but then the attendance at a GAA league game is often dire. The equivalent scenario in England would be the FA Cup games are soldout but no one turns up to watch the premiership.

Maybe the people in this country are too into the instant-gratification of bigger events.

Kingp35

soma wrote:

Yeah the "event" thing is a good point - tickets are hard to come by for GAA All-Ireland games but then the attendance at a GAA league game is often dire. The equivalent scenario in England would be the FA Cup games are soldout but no one turns up to watch the premiership.

This depends entirely on the county involved. Dublin sell out all their league games pretty much

Töpher

It'd drive me for one (and I'm sure most other passionate supporters) away from the league. I support Shelbourne, and noone else. Even our national team means nothing to me in comparisson to Shelbourne.

Mergers would suck. Having recently moved to Wicklow I still make sure I attend every single home game, and as many away as I possibly can. I can't see myself making that effort for North Dublin FC

As for too many teams coming from Dublin, thats only really an issue because the league is only 12 teams.

London:
Arsenal
Tottenham
Fulham
Charlton
West Ham
Chelsea

Thats 6/20 coming from one city. Noone complains about that.

Dublin:
Shelbourne
Bohemians
UCD
St Pats
Rovers

Thats 5/12, and is apparently one of the reasons our league is destined to an eternity of mediocrity? Christ, give me Rovers over Monaghan Utd any day! It's all about the football.

MrJoeSoap

This thread and the "How to Improve the Eircom League" thread has got me thinking.

Thinking so much, in fact, that I completely missed the point.

All that needs to be done right now is that people need to start going to games. End of story. The people who come on here and criticise and come up with all this "merger" gibberish need to just go to games and enjoy the football.

Starting tonight. See Gimmicks thread for your nearest league/cup game.

There are NO excuses for not supporting your local club.

Töpher

MrJoeSoap wrote:

This thread and the "How to Improve the Eircom League" thread has got me thinking.

Thinking so much, in fact, that I completely missed the point.

All that needs to be done right now is that people need to start going to games. End of story. The people who come on here and criticise and come up with all this "merger" gibberish need to just go to games and enjoy the football.

Starting tonight. See Gimmicks thread for your nearest league/cup game.

There are NO excuses for not supporting your local club.

^^

[Jackass]

KdjaC wrote:

Yes I for one think Pats should merge with Rovers I can’t wait to support St Shamrock Athletic, I mean myself and 4000 other pats fans cant wait. Also Rovers fans will take us to their hearts.

Well I doubt that's exactly how it would be done All clubs would be disbanded, (using Dublin as a example) and the greatest assets from all clubs would be used to form a North and South team...I have no idea what they would be called, but does it make a difference? They would have no affiliation to any of the old clubs....

KdjaC wrote:

3.Top 3 getting further in europe than teams in Spl and PL.

Cork have had a great year, Shels did last year, EL have had excellent runs in Europe in recent years.... but by PL and SPL standards they have been far from spectacular.... especially from teams that are national champions. (well not yet for cork. )

KdjaC wrote:

1.top 3 teams playing better football than ever before.

True, I couldn't agree more, and the progress being made has been very impressive.... but again, by whose standards? Because for EL it's excellent, but by SPL or even league 1 in England, nothing spectacular....

KdjaC wrote:

2.top teams getting more in the gate that ever before.

Exactly, and did you notice that with the small amounts of success in Europe, and the increased exposure of the league commercially with TV, and Setanta and so on, the dramatic effect it has had?

Can you imagine how much more attendances would be at a new, specifically marketed league, which loses the reputation of the LOI (and if you don't agree it has a terrible reputation with the majority of Irish soccer fans you're in denial), and has direct rivalries with bigger teams, with better players, (because their would be less teams, so only the best players from EL would still be around, and grouped together), far more money, every fan in the country has a team to support in the top league….this league would have very large commercial and market exposure...more than the EL has had in the last 10 years combined, and far better quality on the pitch.

KdjaC wrote:

4top 4 getting into Setanta and getting closer to real big pay day all Ireland league.

Do you have any idea the potential revenue and earnings the launch of a new "super league" would have? Sure it's all marketing, but clearly it works, and, as in Australia, big sponsors would come forward, triple the crowds would arrive at games, lots of assets can be off loaded, setanta cup will still be there, probably more success in Europe, much bigger domestic prize money, far less waists of resources on wages etc., much smaller squad sizes, much more quality...Plus the novelty and “buzz” factor would be a big pay day…Also I’m sure an all Ireland league would be a fundamental part of any new League that would be launched…so the pay day would still be there, and that would be another added attraction.

A new league would also probably receive large government funding as a sports development project. That could possibly be the biggest payday of all.

Financially there’s no comparison…a new league clearly would be far more commercially viable, and would have far less expenses, far more income, and far better quality.

KdjaC wrote:

The only thing the league needs it better grounds, it used to need more coverage but TG4, setanta ,Ollie Byrne and Roddy Coillins fighting have done more than enough this season to cover that.
kdjac

The only thing?
I could show you 50 Man Yoo fans in Ireland for every EL fan (of any club) you could show me...if not more...I can think of another thing it needs...supporters...

The bottom line is that the EL as it stands will never be anything more than a mickey mouse league, whether we are willing to admit it or not.... half the clubs are in financial crisis...half the clubs have little or no fan base what so ever, there are only 4 teams max who are playing anything that can be described as football, hundreds of thousands of euros are being waisted on interest, wages, rents, maintenance of grounds that would make more sense to have apartment blocks on them, there's far too many useless players in the league, squad sizes are ridiculous, and there are far to many clubs, and the first division is absolutely pointless.

Hypothetical scenario: you have a country with 1 million population...so you make a football league...do you make a league of 100 teams of every small town you can find, spanning populations of 10,000 per team? Or do you make a football league of 10 teams spanning a population of 100,000 people per team? I think the second idea has a much better chance of success.

Half the population has no representation in EL, and as it stands the league isn't very new comer friendly.... look at the comments about "Bandwagon supporters" in the improving EL thread...

There has to be a bandwagon to jump on in the first place....

And long time supporters seem to have a chip on their shoulder about new supporters to the league…talk about biting off your nose to spite your face….

I understand your commitment to your club, and I have absolute admiration for it, but we have to think of the big picture here…But maybe you would just prefer to keep your team and league as it is, and hope somehow the EL can sustain itself long enough until it can make much bigger inroads and progress. I can understand that, because obviously there is a lot of passion involved, and I completely respect that.

But for me, I can never see that happening, and a successful national league that can compete in Europe is an absolute dream for me, many EL supporters and Irish people in general, I don’t think we can look at it as individual teams, but as a league as a whole.

Recent runs have shown that any success of Irish teams in Europe, and the whole country gets behind them. Remember Lansdowne road? How many showed up to support Shels? 26,000 or something…that shows people want to have something to support...but the EL just dosen’t offer them that.

I think this is our best chance of achieving it…Even if it means forgetting everything that’s gone before and starting again.

MrJoeSoap wrote:

DubGuy are you an Eircom League fan?

I follow it yes, but I know it could be so much better....

The EL as it stands is a lost cause as far as I'm concerned...if it never changes, I'll still support it because it's my national league, but I hope it does...I think it has the potential with a complete re-vamp to rival the SPL in the foreseeable future.

sorry about the really long post...but that's pretty much my entire opinion on the matter.

KdjaCL

The only thing?
I could show you 50 Man Yoo fans in Ireland for every EL fan (of any club) you could show me...if not more...I can think of another thing it needs...supporters.

Nice post but again so far off the mark its funny, who in their right mind would want those fans at their grounds, Man Utd fans from manchester are embarassed by them, we would be too.

You base standards on Spl or PL or Div1, ehh its the EL comparing to anything other is irrelevant. The only thing the league needs is better grounds, there will be **** teams **** games **** attds. Cork got more at home last week then Juventus did during the week.

Every league has **** teams **** games **** attd only non footballing nations resort to MLS style leagues siomply because they dont have the grassroot system in place to create professional footballers. In the US and AUS there is no decent schoolboy system and as football is fairly new to them the clubs dont have an identity with the areas theyin or the fans who support them.

Your idea to kill EL clubs and replace them would be akin to asking Wimbledon back over, who would support them?

The barstoolers over here are an embarrassemtn to football and as seen below in my signature they are summed up perfectly by a fellow pats fan.



kdjac

Töpher

DubGuy wrote:

True, I couldn't agree more, and the progress being made has been very impressive.... but again, by whose standards? Because for EL it's excellent, but by SPL or even league 1 in England, nothing spectacular....

I had to stop reading here...! Thats unbelievable! League 1?! Now I know you're taking the piss.

I swallowed judgement on the SPL comment as there's what, 3 good teams in Scotland? Most of the rest could be considered average at best in EL terms, but there always looks to be huge crowds, which in turn make things (such as the SPL itself) look better. Take the Hibernian for example, hardly a poor team by SPL standards, and were 3-0 down at half time to Cork recently, and only clawed back when Cork subbed their entire team with reserve players. This team then went on to beat Rangers 3-0 at Ibrox. But League 1? Are you serious?

Think back to mid 2003 when Leeds were in the premiership. Shelbourne beat them 2-0 in Tolka, all be it a friendly, but the Leeds team was packed with first teamers. We've progressed considerably since then, but are nowt compared to League 1?

Now they're just examples, but sheesh!

I would expect any of our top 3 sides to comfortably be able to hold a top half finish in the Championship. Perhaps fighting it out just under the play-offs. Thats my take on it anyways.

MrJoeSoap

DubGuy wrote:

Remember Lansdowne road? How many showed up to support Shels? 26,000 or something…that shows people want to have something to support...but the EL just dosen’t offer them that.

No, what that shows is that people are glory hunting and only willing to hop on bandwagons when Irish clubs are succesful.

I'd rather keep my league as it is than have 15,000 people show up to see Dublin North and Dublin South battle it out in the Irish Superleague.

People DO have something to support. What is stopping any soccer fan in Dublin from going to the next home game in Richmond Park, Tolka Park, Dalymount Park etc...? Nothing. Except themselves and their commitment to soccer overseas, perhaps.

For the cost of travelling to ONE Man Utd game (I wouldn't know for sure but I would assume €400 all in?) any Irish person could have a season ticket to an Irish club and pay for their transport to every home game.

Honestly, are people that ignorant and stupid to go to see a Manchester United game, and fund those little leprechauns in suits to spend €30million on the next 18 year old from Merseyside, when there is such quality right here on our doorsteps?

Give me Wes Houlihan over Wayne Rooney ANY DAY.

The Rooster

Pigman II is totally right in that attendances will never rise by much unless you give people an "occasion". The idea floated of abandoning the league and creating all the new teams would generate a huge amount of publicity and comment and there is no doubt it would produce sell-out crowds. Would the sell out crowd phenoman last 1 week, 1 month, 1 season, 10 seasons? Clearly nobody knows - those who agree with the idea would say long term, those who don't would say short term.

But of course it'll never happen. The clubs and existing fans would never let it happen. Better the status quo, even if it would produce a far better league scene.

If there was a Dublin North team, or a Fingal team founded in place of the existing teams, I would certainly go to their games.

I'm a big sports fan. Pretty much anything and everything. I will watch and support Cork and Shels when their European games are on TV, but I've never been to an Eircom League game, and dont really intend to go. Mainly because even though there's so many teams in Dublin, I've no team to support. To be honest I'd be hard pushed to tell you what localities the current teams are supposed to represent. I've 15 or so male friends, all sports fans, all support a team across the water, 7 or 8 into GAA, all take an interest in many sports, especially where there's an Irish connection. None go to Eircom league games. They'd all be either from Fingal, Dublin North East (Raheny, Killester, Sutton) and Dublin West (Blanch, Castleknock, Lucan). Cant speak for them, but I'd guess like me they've never had a reason to go or a team to support. Or who would be the local team for people in these areas?

[Jackass]

Einst&#252 wrote: »

I had to stop reading here...! Thats unbelievable! League 1?! Now I know you're taking the piss.....I would expect any of our top 3 sides to comfortably be able to hold a top half finish in the Championship. Perhaps fighting it out just under the play-offs. Thats my take on it anyways.

Ok, fair enough that was a bit of an exateration...But EL teams pushing for a place in Premiership play-offs? That's a bit far fetched too in fairness

KdjaC wrote:

3.Top 3 getting further in Europe than teams in Spl and PL.

KdjaC wrote:

You base standards on Spl or PL or Div1, ehh its the EL comparing to anything other is irrelevant.

I was only making comparisons because you were...

MrJoeSoap wrote:

What is stopping any soccer fan in Dublin from going to the next home game in Richmond Park, Tolka Park, Dalymount Park etc...? Nothing. Except themselves and their commitment to soccer overseas, perhaps.

Nothing, I completely agree...but short of going around to 10,000 homes and dragging people out kicking and screaming, I don't think a decent crowd will ever come.

MrJoeSoap wrote:

For the cost of travelling to ONE Man Utd game (I wouldn't know for sure but I would assume €400 all in?) any Irish person could have a season ticket to an Irish club and pay for their transport to every home game.

Honestly, are people that ignorant and stupid to go to see a Manchester United game, and fund those little leprechauns in suits to spend €30million on the next 18 year old from Merseyside, when there is such quality right here on our doorsteps?

Again, I completely agree...that irritates the hell out of me aswell. I can never understand how people from Dublin refer to Liverpool as "we", and defend their players as though their bloody related to the whole team, and half of these people have never even been to Liverpool, and yet throw money at them in jersey's etc. etc.

These same people have the nerve to laugh at their own leauge, and wouldn't spend a penny on a team from their home town....but that's EL, and i can't see that ever changing if things stay the same...That's one of the main reasons I want a change.

KdjaC wrote:

Every league has **** teams **** games **** attd only non footballing nations resort to MLS style leagues siomply because they dont have the grassroot system in place to create professional footballers. In the US and AUS there is no decent schoolboy system and as football is fairly new to them the clubs dont have an identity with the areas theyin or the fans who support them.

Well we don't have the grass rootsor schoolboy level either as far as EL is concernd, we have decent sides developing players like Belvedere, Cherry Orchard, but any quality players have no intention of playing EL, and pretty much all of our professional players are developed in acadamys in the UK. That's why all our players with talent go to the UK and take their chances there...some of them play in obscurity in middle to low leagues, some of them pack it in and get a job, some of them make it, and some of them come home to EL after failing in UK...

Do we want to be a reject league or give home grown talent a serious option to stay here and get to play in a much higher standard league with real prospects in Europe, money and facilities...

Obviously I completely understand where you are all coming from, and it would be a terrible shame to see the end of great clubs like Shels, Bohs, Cork, Rovers (who are on the ropes as it is), especially when the league is finally starting to make a bit of progress...but it'll never be a decent league by European standards, it'll never attract players of top quality (with the rare exception), the majority of the clubs are a absolute sham...so how are we supposed to develop clubs that can compete in that enviornment playing teams like that week in week out?

At the end of the day, isn't that we would all love to see happen? I completely respect the tradition and the passion that goes along with the EL, but I've only got the interest of Irish football and the national league at heart, and to achieve what we want to achieve means sacrafices will have to be made...but in the long run, this is what would be best for Irish football.

KdjaCL

DubGuy wrote:

Belvedere, Cherry Orchard,

How odd Pats have 3 on their books and recently sold an Ex Cherrier player for 40k.

And to sum it up, ireland has a lot of football fans some like armchairs, some like barstools, some like being there and some like travelling to Uk to watch.

Of the 4 types there are 3 that dont go to EL and Rooster altho i doubt he meant it summed it up perfectly.

but I've never been to an Eircom League game, and dont really intend to go.

Even if you made the mad league idea you still have this attitude to overcome plus the its **** attitude and the "do i have to leave the armchair/pub to watch it" attitude.

The league has it good and bad points like all leagues do but ireland is the only country to have such a large home support for away teams, thus they base that standard of football as the "norm" and anything else is not good enough to leave armchair/pub to watch.

Personally i would be embarassed if these fans started going to Pats games, im glad all the new fans are Shels fans. They are clueless people who as Pigman points out only there for the occasion.
Also always the ones who start these EL needs drastic makeover threads too...no offence.


kdjac

[Jackass]

KdjaC wrote:

How odd Pats have 3 on their books and recently sold an Ex Cherrier player for 40k.

Really? And how many do they have who came back from the UK, or trained in UK academys?

KdjaC wrote:

Rooster altho i doubt he meant it summed it up perfectly...Even if you made the mad league idea you still have this attitude to overcome plus the its **** attitude and the "do i have to leave the armchair/pub to watch it" attitude.

But in fairness he also said:

The Rooster wrote:

If there was a Dublin North team, or a Fingal team founded in place of the existing teams, I would certainly go to their games.

And that's exactly what the new league would do....tap into a massive wealth of new fans.

The Rooster wrote:

I've never been to an Eircom League game, and dont really intend to go. Mainly because even though there's so many teams in Dublin, I've no team to support. To be honest I'd be hard pushed to tell you what localities the current teams are supposed to represent.

That's exactly what I was talking about, with the EL alienating fans...a simple north south divide gives clear teams, and covers every single soccer fan in the city.

KdjaC wrote:

Personally i would be embarassed if these fans started going to Pats games, im glad all the new fans are Shels fans. They are clueless people who as Pigman points out only there for the occasion.
Also always the ones who start these EL needs drastic makeover threads too...no offence.

Well it was ony a matter of time before you played that card.... You know you can't have your cake and eat it!

You (EL supporters in general) complaining about people not comeing out, going to games, and support the teams...and then when they show up, they're clueless people who are only glory hunters....I may only be around for a few years, but I started going to lots of games, which has gradually declined over time becasue of that exact attitude on the terraces... It was what I was talking about before, biting off your nose to spite your face. :rolleyes:

And those very same fans must take a certain amount of the blame for the failure of the league they hold so dear, for making new fans feel so unwelcome.

Do you think the EL is a league you can keep to yourself? No, It's the national league...it belongs to all of us...and if the majority of footy fans in the country have absolutely no interest, then there is something fundamentally wrong.

To the majority of Irish fans, they would want a sucsessfull league by european standards, and the development of the national game. It's much bigger than any indivdual club, and much bigger than a minority of football supporters in this country who follow EL...

I believe even if all the EL supporters were to boycott a new league, it would still have better attendances, better quality players, better facilitys, more money, and better results on the pitch, which is what it's all about at the end of the day.

If you want a crowd full of life long supporters, and fully educated and knowledgable supporters you're fooling yourself, because no team worth a damn in any top level of football has that...the "clueless" people are part of sucsess... Do you want sucsess? Or do you want a mickey mouse league perminantly?

Your sig sais Brian Kerr has been lumped with mediocer players or something along those lines...so why don't you support giving him a decent league to choose players from?

I just think you have your own agenda...save St.Pats at all costs...even if that cost is the national game, and the national league...it's a very small minded outlook, and very selfish motivations....

Im not saying Pats and Shels and so on have to be disbanded...but just not as our national leauge...why not have some sort of seperate leauge those teams can compete? possibly amuture league as the resources aren't there for professional...but it would mean different players because the top ones would play in a new national league...but i presume your love is not for the players, but for the club...and that would still exist..you could still go to the games...they would still play the same opposition...it could be exactly the same league format...it just wouldn't be the national league...but compromise must be made if you want a great league.

KdjaCL

DubGuy wrote:

To the majority of Irish fans,

Who support English clubs, thats not going to change ever. Thinking it may is wishful. Blaming the EL clubs for not being in your area well...honestly what i can say to that.

and if the majority of footy fans in the country have absolutely no interest, then there is something fundamentally wrong.

With the league or with the fans?

I cba with these fans who sit on barstools supporting Liverpool and saying how them winning CL was best night of their lives. Honestly good for them ,i prefer to see my team play week in week out, just sadly my team are in ireland Which is wrong to the majority of irish fans. You point out about national leagues yet how many of these fans that you would like to attract to the league have actually been to a game? Football fans go to games simple as that, if you dont go to your teams games your not a fan imo. So you want to attract people who dont even support their own teams to the National league. Bugger that Man Utd can have them. No way would any fan wat to see gimps like that supporting their team, they are 1st to boo and 1st to disappear soon as results go bad.

Your entire point here is that the league has problems yet 5 people have posted in this thread ,all 5 who actually support the EL and go to the games and say its doesnt have problems to the extent you think. The solution is simple better grounds nothing else is needed only for people to be able to enjoy football in a comfortable surrounding. No splitting of teams merging or other ludicrous ideas. Just for someone to pay a tenner and get a seat in a covered stand.

Kdjac

MrJoeSoap

The Rooster wrote:

(Blanch, Castleknock, Lucan)... who would be the local team for people in these areas?

Shels, Bohs or Pats? Its not exactly inconvenient in fairness. If they can't drive, theres a train that goes from Ashtown, Castleknock, Coolmine, Clonsilla, Leixlip and Maynooth. Only €3.40 return, 10 minute walk to Tolka from the train station, 15 minutes to Dalyer. Also, the 38 bus route goes by it, and the 39 goes close. If they can drive, theres not really an excuse other than just not wanting to support the league for whatever reason. Richmond Park is only a few minutes of a drive from Lucan by the Strawberry Beds and through Chapelizod.

If you live in Dublin, there is a team nearby or within public transport distance, its usually as simple as that (unless you live in Tallaght ). Einsturzende travels from Bray ffs.

applehunter

The Rooster wrote:

Pigman II is totally right in that attendances will never rise by much unless you give people an "occasion". The idea floated of abandoning the league and creating all the new teams would generate a huge amount of publicity and comment and there is no doubt it would produce sell-out crowds. Would the sell out crowd phenoman last 1 week, 1 month, 1 season, 10 seasons? Clearly nobody knows - those who agree with the idea would say long term, those who don't would say short term.

But of course it'll never happen. The clubs and existing fans would never let it happen. Better the status quo, even if it would produce a far better league scene.

If there was a Dublin North team, or a Fingal team founded in place of the existing teams, I would certainly go to their games.

I'm a big sports fan. Pretty much anything and everything. I will watch and support Cork and Shels when their European games are on TV, but I've never been to an Eircom League game, and dont really intend to go. Mainly because even though there's so many teams in Dublin, I've no team to support. To be honest I'd be hard pushed to tell you what localities the current teams are supposed to represent. I've 15 or so male friends, all sports fans, all support a team across the water, 7 or 8 into GAA, all take an interest in many sports, especially where there's an Irish connection. None go to Eircom league games. They'd all be either from Fingal, Dublin North East (Raheny, Killester, Sutton) and Dublin West (Blanch, Castleknock, Lucan). Cant speak for them, but I'd guess like me they've never had a reason to go or a team to support. Or who would be the local team for people in these areas?

I don't know enough of the geography of Dublin to make a fair comment.

I will say is that these 15 male friends, did their location in Dublin make a difference to their support for clubs accross the water?

MrJoeSoap

applehunter wrote:

...did their location in Dublin make a difference to their support for clubs accross the water?

Zam!

Töpher

MrJoeSoap wrote:

If you live in Dublin, there is a team nearby or within public transport distance, its usually as simple as that (unless you live in Tallaght ). Einsturzende travels from Bray ffs.

Zing! And its easy too! Even Lisenhall won't stop me Anyone who says otherwise is just making excuses, I'd imagine the truth of the matter is they prefer the comfort of their pub stools/armchairs and will go to great efforts explaining why they don't go to games, but will never make the small effort to go to games!

Perhaps its just me, but football is a passionate game, but there's nothing passionate about Sky Sports or the way they present the game. Give me a cold terrace in the wind and rain with my heart going 90MPH for hours on end, living, breathing and loving every moment, good or bad, over a barstool surrounded by people who believe they love the sport yet the closest they get to actually supporting, in the true sense of the word, the game at any level is assisting towards the monthly rental of their local's Sky digital package. But maybe I'm just nuts!

MrJoeSoap

Einst&#252 wrote: »

But maybe I'm just nuts!

Yep, totally nuts*.




*The right kind of nuts though.

TheDoc

Stopped reading after first post. Eircom league ahsnt really come on. Maybe because I never got into it. But its rarely on TV, the coverage is terrible. The match ticket prices are cheap but I'm sorry I went to one match and felt like I sohuld be paid to watch it. Terrible quality of football.

Irish football will never, not for this century, ever come on par with any other league in europe because simply our players just go to england, simple as that. The only country in probably the world where our good players simply go straight to another english club. I know from personal experience and friends experience,that playing for Shelbourne and Bohs you go to trials for english clubs ebfore you even get a notic in the first team= /

And any match I've watched on TV has had like 1 camera at it, and it just looks terrible, Sunday league football.I'd love to be able to support an irish team. I support Leeds because they had and still do have a very strong irish core in their team. But irish football in EL is the pits and anyone who says different is just letting passion emerge over intellegence.

TheDoc

I think the most saddening thing of all is that all our international players come from The Permiership or England, and the one time we tried an irish league player, it was a disaster and we have enver seen of him again.

To make the EL any use what so ever you need good players and to make a campaign that is attractive to young people. In my group of 20 friends 2-4 guys support EL teams, bout 1 is a big fan who can name like all his teams players.

But I think the big problem is that the EL has just poor players. There is no like say prestige, any Sunday league team can feel they can beat a EL team. I personally at my elvel have played and beaten teams like Shells,Bohs,Pats. Although its not like senior level there is no fear when you play them.........not as much a fear as when i played USA u-15 and numerous english teams on tour.