Solar Panels or Woodchip? Opinons on windows, doors, Actis insulation and clay tiles?

Builderwoman!

Hi

In the middle of new build. We are installing Solar Panels...anyone else doing this? Opinions or feedback would be welcomed please?

Anyone putting in, researched, priced or considered putting in a woodchip burner?

Finally anyone got any opinions on black upvc windows? Arctic or Apeer external doors? Or anyone used or using clay tiles on the roof?

Anyone using Actis insulation in the roof space? Or blown aerobeads in cavity walls? Have any of you considered using insulated plaster board on external walls?

Really appreciate your advice and help.

yop

Builder Woman - Welcome to Board DIY, the cause of and answer to all DIY problems!


I am sure you will get your answers to the solar and pellet questions, from my experience the Search feature of boards is disabled, not sure why but if u could there are a lot of questions asked and answered.

We are also doing a selfbuild and installed Black (bog oak) UPVC windows and doors and are delighted with them

patrido

Actis... is that the foil insulation. I have not used it, but I've read about it. I has a huge R value (something like 5.0 m2k/W, which would take about 5 inches of kingpsan to achieve). It's quite popular in space saving applications, like where you might want to make the rafters visible. Is there some question about the longevity of it? I.e. that when the reflectiveness of the foil fades, the R value decreases too?? I believe it's quite expensive too.

Yes I have considered insulated plasterboard, and I'm putting it in on all my north facing walls, and in lots of places upstairs (dormer). Pros: effectively gives you an insulated box. Cons: reduces your room space. You lose the thermal mass effect of concrete walls - some people consider this a pro, others a con. The room will heat up more quickly, but it will also cool very quickly. Concrete walls hold on to the heat and give you more thermal stability. No roasting when the sun suddenly comes out or freezing if a door is open for 30 seconds. However, the lower U value, should compensate for that.

if money (as in the capital cost) is not a major concern then the most long term cost effective and green way of spending your money is in the folowing order of priority...
1: insulation. put in more than the regs require, and as much as you can afford. this applies to the insulation value of your windows and doors too.
2: control of the heat emitters and DHW. that means zoning, and clever and more expensive controls to make sure that heating is on only when and where it's needed.
3: heat source. energy efficient ones are fashionable and most people have this as their first priority.
4: heat emitters. ufh, etc.

passive houses have been built with over 300mm of insulation in the walls and huge amounts elsewhere, and as a result all they need is a small solar panel some one of the self build mags had a feature on such a house this month.

most people would rather spend 2k on insulation and 18k on geothermal, than 19k on super insulating their house and 1k on a small oil boiler, which would actually be cheaper to run and more environmentally friendly. everyone will want to see your heat pump or your solar panels. only the occasional nerd (me) will listen to you at a dinner party if you talk about walls with a u value of 0.1

Windows:
lots of people don't like them, and some say they will fade. The guarantee period is apparently shorter with coloured pvc, than with white pvc (7 yrs vs 10 yrs). we have decided to take our chances and put in black pvc windows, and we are very happy with them - ask again in 7 years time take a look if you like http://www.doocey.net/pics/2005/house/target51.html

senator do a very very very dark brown (almost black) called bog oak, and they are very nice too.

towbar

Solar

Considering solar panel also so will be interested in responses. I see the main advantage as having hot water in summer time. Is there a significant saving to putting in the panels at build time, less slates etc?

Heating system
I fully agree with Patrido - we have evaluated all the heating options ufh, geo, wood etc, the advice we have got that seems to make most sense is spend your money on insulation and zoning in fact we are hoping to go with individual radiator control on conventional radiators, thermostat in each room. Based on lastest figures on SEI website wood performance against oil is not as high as some are claiming not to mention the ongoing high price of boilers. That may change however and if you are interested a poster called Goll Mac Morna was putting together a group of people that might be interested in buying a new wood pellet burner due out from kerkros at year end to see if we could get reduced pricing for bulk buy. Guide price was 5k.

Insulation
I am still trying to work out what insulation to use but as we are going timber frame it seems most of these guys have a standard recommended insulation package.

Windows
Has anybody heard of dual coloured PVC black outside and white inside? Strongly considering this.

Eve1

patrido wrote:

we have decided to take our chances and put in black pvc windows, and we are very happy with them - ask again in 7 years time take a look if you like http://www.doocey.net/pics/2005/house/target51.html

Do you mind me asking Patrido what u value your windows are. Its just that you seem to have spent alot of time and money on insulation. I am about to order my windows so this is my last chance.

Cheers,
Eve

Builderwoman!

Hi Yop and thanks for your good wishes. Have read some of your contributions and know that you have lot sof advice to offer. Looking forward to chatting.

Patrido - house looks fab by the way. Thanks so much for your food for thought on Actis. Equipped now to ask all the right questions of the rep!
I love your cladding. We cannot use any but would be interested to know what you used as I want to do a feature wall inside the dining area and I know the budget will not stretch to real stone. Black windows are a really classy look at the mo. What brand did you go with? You are dead right about insulation. Most don't even max up the insulation never mind max it out. We intend to max it up as much as we can. We are going with solar for the hot water benefits. After that it is gas or oil. Not sure which..anyone any ideas? We are doing some ufh and rads. Strange I know but ufh doesn't work with timber flooring and I sooo want timber flooring in some part of the house.
What are you using on your roof. We are thinking of clay tiles. For colour longevity and price versus natural slate. What are your views?
Really interested in hearing all your opinions. When do you think your house will be finished Yop and patrido?

yop

We are hoping and still on schedule for November, I will be starting the UFH the weekend so am deciding on what insulation and tickness we are putting on the floor.

Have a look at our blog Builderwoman, pics there with the windows, also Bog Oak got from Mahon Windows athlone. If ur near Mayo u are very welcome to have a look.

I am now also reconsidering which heat source we are using, I am doubting the suitablility of our soil, but Climate Control have looked and reckon it is fine, but I am not sure.!!!

yop

Patrido, what sort of stone is that and how the hell did u mange to have grass growing near the house and where is ur scaffolding?

patrido

towbar wrote:

Windows
Has anybody heard of dual coloured PVC black outside and white inside? Strongly considering this.

yep, i think it's a relatively standard request. my window man said he installed a green outside/cream inside the week before ours.

patrido

Builderwoman! wrote:

Patrido - house looks fab by the way.

tyvm

Builderwoman! wrote:

I love your cladding. We cannot use any but would be interested to know what you used as I want to do a feature wall inside the dining area and I know the budget will not stretch to real stone.

It's Roadstone Hallmark. The colour is Old Graphite. http://www.roadstone.ie/resources/pdfs/Hallmark.pdf
It actually comes as a 100mm thick brick/block, so something like fernhill stone might be more suited to an indoor detail??

Builderwoman! wrote:

What brand did you go with?

erm... now windows are something we did not put enough research into, and we ended up making a very quick decision as we were under pressure at the time. we got a friend of the family who is in the business to do them. i think they are weatherglaze with pilkington k-glass. they've got bog standard double glazing with i think a 4mm gap.

Builderwoman! wrote:

After that it is gas or oil. Not sure which..anyone any ideas?

if you can get gas on mains, i'd say go with it. it's cleaner, no calling the oil company when you run out on christmas eve. no guessing future prices and trying to buy at the right time. plus anyone putting in a boiler should seriously consider a condensing boiler (oil or gas) for higher efficiency (especially with ufh), and gas boilers condense better than oil - apparently.

Builderwoman! wrote:

We are doing some ufh and rads. Strange I know but ufh doesn't work with timber flooring and I sooo want timber flooring in some part of the house.

you can use ufh with wood floors. wood doesn't transmit the heat quite as well as tiles, so the designer needs to know that you're putting in wood, and specify a higher output from the floor to match. you need to be quite careful with wood over ufh (type, board width & thickness, moisture content, acclimatisation, room for expansion, how it's installed) but it can work very well. it's worth looking into though. there have been previous threads here on this subject if you can find them.

Builderwoman! wrote:

What are you using on your roof. We are thinking of clay tiles. For colour longevity and price versus natural slate. What are your views?
Really interested in hearing all your opinions. When do you think your house will be finished Yop and patrido?

i don't think anything looks as well as a natural slate, but we're quite happy with ours. i can't remember the exact model and colour, but it's a pretty standard roadstone thin leading edge concrete tile. didn't put enough research into this area either:(

house might be finished in another 6-8 months... it's a slow mainly diy weekends and evenings job here. you might be in your house before i'm in mine

patrido

Eve1 wrote:

Do you mind me asking Patrido what u value your windows are. Its just that you seem to have spent alot of time and money on insulation. I am about to order my windows so this is my last chance.

Cheers,
Eve

As per my other post, I didn't do enough research into windows, so I can only lament what I should have done My windows are pretty bog standard. they've got pilkington k glass, standard width, with standard gap between panes.

for a higher u value, you can specify any combination of a larger gap between panes, argon fill, triple glaze, low emissivity coating, etc. it's important to consider the r value of the frame as well as the glass, as the frame can take up 10-30% of the window area.

the regs specify an average u value for your windows and doors of 2.2 which is pathetic. a triple glazed argon filled low e window could give you as low as 0.2 (r value of 5). in the article i read on the passive house, the guy sourced his windows from abroad (might have been scandanavia??) because a high enough spec wasn't available here though i don't think you need to go to that extreme.

also, velux have a higher spec version of most of their roof windows, though i don't know a lot about them yet.

patrido

yop wrote:

Patrido, what sort of stone is that and how the hell did u mange to have grass growing near the house and where is ur scaffolding?

its roadstone hallmark. we built in a field, so the grass was there before the house. we are going to shift a major amount of topsoil away from the house at a later stage. and there's some scaffolding around the front at the moment.

Eve1

patrido wrote:

we are going to shift a major amount of topsoil away from the house at a later stage.

Pity your not in the West, you would have loads of takers for soil. We have no soil worth describing. Our neighbours had to get thirty lorry loads to plant grass in the front.

Eve

Builderwoman!

patrido wrote:

tyvm


It's Roadstone Hallmark. The colour is Old Graphite. http://www.roadstone.ie/resources/pdfs/Hallmark.pdf
It actually comes as a 100mm thick brick/block, so something like fernhill stone might be more suited to an indoor detail??

It looks great. Have looked at Fernhill before will have to look again. We have lots of granite from our previous house but I think getting a stone mason (that won't cost the earth) might be an issue.

erm... now windows are something we did not put enough research into, and we ended up making a very quick decision as we were under pressure at the time. we got a friend of the family who is in the business to do them. i think they are weatherglaze with pilkington k-glass. they've got bog standard double glazing with i think a 4mm gap.

We are getting quotes at present. Hence the interest in windows. I asked about triple glazing and one guys says that the price would not justify it. You just don't know who to listen to.

if you can get gas on mains, i'd say go with it. it's cleaner, no calling the oil company when you run out on christmas eve. no guessing future prices and trying to buy at the right time. plus anyone putting in a boiler should seriously consider a condensing boiler (oil or gas) for higher efficiency (especially with ufh), and gas boilers condense better than oil - apparently.

Can't get mains gas. It is close by and hopefully might come our way sometime. Will talk to plumber again about condensing. I think the one we
looked at was.

you can use ufh with wood floors. wood doesn't transmit the heat quite as well as tiles, so the designer needs to know that you're putting in wood, and specify a higher output from the floor to match. you need to be quite careful with wood over ufh (type, board width & thickness, moisture content, acclimatisation, room for expansion, how it's installed) but it can work very well. it's worth looking into though. there have been previous threads here on this subject if you can find them.

I have been told by timber floor installers, not sure again what to believe these days, but they told me ufh was a no no with timber flooring. The ufh is pretty much all over downstairs which I am really happy about.

i don't think anything looks as well as a natural slate, but we're quite happy with ours. i can't remember the exact model and colour, but it's a pretty standard roadstone thin leading edge concrete tile. didn't put enough research into this area either:(

house might be finished in another 6-8 months... it's a slow mainly diy weekends and evenings job here. you might be in your house before i'm in mine

You are probably saving a bomb in money doing it diy. Fair play to you to be able to do it. I hope you have lots of help!

Thanks again for all your help. I really do appreciate it. Will keep a check on your house!!

Builderwoman!

Yop, thanks for the info on windows. I'm in Co. Kildare. Looked at the blog...where do you get the time for such details?! I could not see many photos...will look again now.

towbar, totally agree about the insulation. I think we will be going gas or oil boiler and maxing out the insulation totally. If we can keep fuel consumption down we should save money in the long run. We are moving from an old cold badly insulated house so we should be much more efficient in terms of fuel if we insulate properly.

Not sure where you are towbar but we had a good quote from a good company in Wexford. We decided in the end not to go timber frame but we found them excellent to deal with. They were willing to do anything we wanted to upgrade the insulation.

Regarding white on black pvc I was told by one window guy that it was not a good idea. I am of the opinion though that some guys just tell you what suits them. It's very difficult to know who to listen to as they all give you conflicting info. I love black windows though so I think we will bite the bullet and go black inside and out. We plan to have bright rooms so I don't think that the black interiors will be an issue. Best of luck.

towbar

Builderwoman - what drove the decision not to go timber frame?

Builderwoman!

Cost, really drove the decision not to go timber frame. We are building a rather large house and apartment (for inlaws) and by the time we max'd up the insulation etc added on the Vat, crane hire etc we were quoted €100,000
for the frame. We also had to have a house demolished on the site and pay for it to be disposed of. We felt euro for euro we were going to get better value going the traditional concrete house. And can I be totally honest here we we know a timber frame is a really really warm house but we were demolishing an house built 30 years ago and we began to think with our damp wet climate would timber frame even have that life span...nobody could give us or were willing to give us any guarantees. Nobody could point us to a timber frame in Ireland that has stood for 30 years and prove to us that it was still a sound house. Even our engineer said he is not convinced timber frame houses will stand the test of time. Don't mean to be negative. We spent lots of time and energy on research and quotes etc but just decided we and I stress we weren't willing to take the risk. It just wasn't for us. Don't mean to put you off. They are a super warm home and we may never have as warm a house taking the route we are taking but we do feel confident it will stand the test of time.

yop

Builderwoman - if you look on the right hand side you will see the month July and Aug and they have pics.

Builderwoman!

Fab house Yop and you seem to be doing most of the work yourself - fair play to you!! You must be saving a few euro. And fab that you have a Dad to help out too. Hope you know how lucky you are!! The front of the house is a lot like ours. I think the black windows look class. What kind of a front door are you going for. Read a mention of gothic...tell me more? Hope you're on target to get in before Christmas?! I wish we were so far advanced...

yop

Thanks very much, yes we are happy, some days or nights when u are then at 12am at you stop you do wonder.
We are probably saving up to 35k euro all in so I am very happy & a good few lbs lighter!!

Yes the windows are nice, very happy with them, did u spot the angle windows on the gable?

The front door yes is a gothic door, due next week (joiner is acting the flute), it will cost us about 1700 euro but with the "lacken (sandstone -ish) stone on the front, the black windows and gothic door I think it will all sit together.

Yes my da is a saint but like myself get a great buzz out of it.

Xmas - please god, but with work here extremly busy (busy and he's on boards all day!!) it will be hard but I will push it

Builderwoman!

Well done that's a fab saving Yop. Not to be sneezed at all! At least you appreciate your Da's input too. Your angle windows were fab. I really liked them. We have neighbours either side and would love to have done something like that with the gables but didn't want to push it from a planning point of view by proposing anything too intrusive. We have a cathedral style hall and were going to do something like the angle window into it but it did not quite sit and as KCC did not even let us put in a bay window I think they would never have passed us for a lot of glazing at the front. The flipping councils are dictating to us what we are spending our money on and going to live in. Anyway I guess I shouldn't moan at least we got pp! Will be looking forward to seeing the gothic door in place. Keep up great work.

Bill2

Builderwoman,

Do you mind if i ask who is supplying you solar panels and why did you go with them, was it price, recommended etc..

Thanks..

Builderwoman!

Hi Bill

I have to tell you we are more than delighted with the company we are using for the Solar. Could not recommend them highly enough already and they haven't fitted the panels yet. Company is Eco-Nrg Ltd Wexford Ph 051 565835
Owner is Damien 087 2203858
They travel all over Ireland. Do two brands Viessman and another brand, name of which escape me. They do solar only but can do your full plumbing job too which they are doing for us. We felt happier getting one company to do both. As our plumbing and solar quote us all integrated together from early enquiries my memory of the price for supply and fit of approx 7.5sq metres of solar panels including 500L tank, pumping station, control panels, vessels etc etc was somewhere around €6,200&Vat. Now we got the same quoted by another company and they were over €7,500 not including tank at another €1,500 approx plus Vat!

We really find Eco-Nrg to be excellent. When you call they answer the phone. If they are not available and you leave a message they always return your call. The owners and the staff are polite, courteous and very
reliable. As I say even though we are not finished with this company yet we would have absolutely no hesitation in recommending them. If you have any interest in Solar or any renewable energy or just want to talk to them about plumbing give them a call.

towbar

Was at the building show at the weekend - ufh and geo was order of the day...

Anyway Gerkros showed their new wood pellet boiler due on the market from October. Price is 4350+vat (5260). Standard hopper is 500kg which should last about 1 month. Clean the ash tray about once per week.

They quote 2 tonnes of pellets equivalent to 1000 litres of oil.

Pellet cost in bulk from balcas is €155/tonne but buying in 10kg bags from local suppliers is currently €300/tonne

Very different picture than the one on their website. Standard model is 30kw (100k btu)

yop

Builderwoman - would that company give u a solution to provide ur domestic heating?

slopey

I'm finding that trying to decide what heating system to put into our new build to be the most difficult of all decisions. I'm currently thinking of installing underfloor heating with an oil condensing boiler. From all I've read it seems the payback may not be there yet in for solar, wood pellets or heat pump systems. I reckon that if oil goes crazy in the future(as it most definitely will) that with the underfloor I'll have the most options available e.g. Wood pellet boiler, heat pumps etc.

Also hoping that with a timber frame build, with heavy insulation (150mm fiberglass wall insulation, 100mm rockwool internal walls & 200mm fibreglass in the roof), large south facing windows, small north facing windows that heating demands would be small anyway.

Thinking of putting in a heat recovery ventialation system (e.g. www.proair.ie). Anyone got any experience with these, costs etc.
Thanks.

later

Builderwoman

On the windows and doors - If you fancy timber ( 3 layer Pine or Meranti ) We're dealing with a very helpful guy in Tipperary - Pat Flaherty - www.youghalglass.ie

Windows come in 2000 different colours - made in Poland to German standards 1.1 W/m U value Argon filled double glazing . The maintenance is supposed to be a coating of water based stain once every 7 years. Was going to go with PVC but these are not that much more than wood grain PVC and look great.

Builderwoman!

Yop - yes that company will give a solution for domestic heating from the usual oil/gas, woodburning, geothermal, solar etc etc. Great to deal with, could not recommend Eco-Nrg highly enough.

Later - thanks for tip on windows. Will check out site now. How do they compare pricewise with upvc?

later

Builderwoman

His site is only ok
try www.pinus-okna.com.pl/windows_and_doors.htm the manufacturer or www.timberwindows.co.uk a uk reseller for pictures.

Price wise they're fairly ood - I have 15 window and 4 doors to be removed and replaced and some are biggish (4 are 8ft wide x 5ft, 6 are 6ft wide by 4ft6, 3 are 8ft wide by 2 ft)

Fitting is 2K and the windows/doors 18K ish included a set of french doors and a front door with side panels (2K was the cheapest alternative I got for this - unfitted).

Hope this helps

CJhaughey

Slopey

I couldn't get much if any info off the proair site, apart from a claimed 92% efficiency there was no technical specs.

We have a VHR unit for our Scanhome, a Temovex 480s which has a claimed efficiency rating of 80% + which I think is a somewhat more realistic figure.
Talking to others on the boards they have claimed that the VHR units do not provide a very even temperature ie if your house is 25ºc in the lounge it may not translate into 25ºc in the bedrooms.
that said the primary benefit is the fact that clean fresh air is being constantly piped into the house and stale air sucked out.
So regardless of whether it is super efficient it must make the house a lot nicer place to be, and also reduce the dangerous situation of damp houses where the materials used chipboard etc start to disintegrate and release formaldehyde etc.

Mothman

CJhaughey wrote:

Slopey

I couldn't get much if any info off the proair site, apart from a claimed 92% efficiency there was no technical specs.

We have a VHR unit for our Scanhome, a Temovex 480s which has a claimed efficiency rating of 80% + which I think is a somewhat more realistic figure.
Talking to others on the boards they have claimed that the VHR units do not provide a very even temperature ie if your house is 25ºc in the lounge it may not translate into 25ºc in the bedrooms.
that said the primary benefit is the fact that clean fresh air is being constantly piped into the house and stale air sucked out.
So regardless of whether it is super efficient it must make the house a lot nicer place to be, and also reduce the dangerous situation of damp houses where the materials used chipboard etc start to disintegrate and release formaldehyde etc.

I've had the system that CJ mentions for nearly 8 years. I would not live in or build a house without some sort of forced ventilation HR unit. One can't expect to have a sealed house and rely on a few poky holes in the walls to adequately ventilate and get rid of all the chemicals etc out gassing from the materials, piants etc.

The effectiveness can be seen in how quickly the bathroom dries after a shower, a matter of minutes. The laundary dries in the house in a few hours. I use a frame hauled by ropes and pullies over the washing machine. Dead handy.

It is also my experience that the temperature doesn't equalise as much as I expected, but no harm in having our bedrooms a little cooler