Use of indicator at roundabouts

mobpd

can someone please confirm if it is correct in ireland that when approaching a roundabout and you want to go straight ahead that you should indicate right??? Its just that this is not the rule in other countries and I have seen loads of people coming up to roundabouts in the left hand lane (correct if you going straight on) but with right indicator flashing - is very confusing - I always give them a bit of leeway in case they really intend to go round the outer lane to turn right....

slade_x

mobpd wrote:

can someone please confirm if it is correct in ireland that when approaching a roundabout and you want to go straight ahead that you should indicate right??? Its just that this is not the rule in other countries and I have seen loads of people coming up to roundabouts in the left hand lane (correct if you going straight on) but with right indicator flashing - is very confusing - I always give them a bit of leeway in case they really intend to go round the outer lane to turn right....

Yes you dont indicate at all, until you are passed the exit that you do not intend to take then you indicate left, to go straight relative from when you got onto the roundabout

Illkillya

The way I understand it, there are two rules of thumb:

1) If the exit you are taking is after "12 O'Clock", then you can indicate right.
2) If the exit you are taking is the third or subsequent exit, then you can indicate right.

Othwise I don't see any reason for indicating right.

leeroybrown

Any government produced guides I've seen on the subject are actually unclear/confusing as they use the example of a roundabout wit four exits and describe the exits as left, straight and right. While a large percentage of roundabouts are like this, the ones that good signalling is most important on are the bigger, more complex that are not adequately described.

Guy:Incognito

I had a girl in a micra with L plates in front of me on the belgard road today doing exactly that. I was behind her in the left lane. She had been driving very slow, but i wasnt in any hurry and was lictening to the radio so i sat behind her. Anyway, as we came up to the roundabout she indicated right and went kind of straight (as in across the lanes not following the lane around) so i assumed she was turning right and sped up a bit to normal speed in the left lane, when she then switched to indicating left and drove straight.

I was actually kind of worried for anyone else who might encounter her and confused as to why sheindicated right and went straight. Driving through the lanes instead of followin the curve of them added to the incompetency.

I really hate people who drift across lanes on roundabout without a care for othersbecause they are too lazy/unaware of whats going on around them to steer with the line of the lane.I find old people do this a lot.

ZENER

In my experience most people indicate right entering the roundabout and don't indicate at all on exiting or just don't bother indicating at all - usually women in 4X4' or mpvs couldn't be arsed using the indicators.

ZEN

AMurphy

Based on my experience, the best indicator to use on a RA is your right foot, aka "The Accelerator."

Squirrel

The worst is people in the left lane going right, especially at the Spawell Roundabout 'cos you think you have a gap but they keep coming around, I saw a crash because of that a while back.

Hagar

AFAIK you are supposed to indicate left just before joining a roundabout and leave the left indicator on until you pass the last exit prior to the one you want to use. At this point you indicate right.

Seth Brundle

Hagar wrote:

AFAIK you are supposed to indicate left just before joining a roundabout and leave the left indicator on until you pass the last exit prior to the one you want to use. At this point you indicate right.

quite incorrect! Nobody will know where you are going and when you do want to come off you indicate that you are travelling around it more?

DubTony

Here's the deal on a straight-forward 4 exit 3-6-9-12 roundabout.

Going straight on ... keep in left lane. DO NOT INDICATE
As you past the last exit before your turn indicate left.
Take the exit.
Cancel the indicator.

Any thing else? Why not use the search feature and read the 74 gazillion threads about driving on roundabouts.

Hagar

Holy Sh1t. I forgot I'm in France where we drive on the right.

I'll get me coat. ( Get's coat, indicates right, heads off into the sunset )

30-6shooter

:mad: I hate retards that cant use roundabouts, no wonder theres always crashes on them when ppl cant even indicate where they`re going. Indicate 1 way then go another way. The worst though has to be ppl that stop when at every roundabout even tho theres nothing coming. Usually women :rolleyes:

Hagar

I'm not a retard, I made an honest mistake as I already pointed out.
The version I gave is quite the norm if you drive on the right as I do.

m_stan

this indicating right thing when going straight through a roundabout is one of the most common errors out there (along with no indication whatsoever). It highlights the number of people who've had no professional driving instruction. Any driving school would teach you the correct way. Doing it incorrectly causes accidents and general confusion for other cars using the road.

Plus it REALLY REALLY annoys me !

This all goes back to the terrible system we have where any old fool can get into a car and drive with no instruction or training whatsoever. And if you fail your test what do you do ? Drive away !!!

If the government is serious about road safety they need to fix this badly broken system.

mike65

m_stan wrote:

If the government is serious about road safety they need to fix this badly broken system.

This subject is like a broken record on this forum!

God knows roundabouts are'nt rocket science but it would help if they were beter designed, the Kinsale Rd disaster being a fine example, and its so busy its something of a rugby scrum to arrive at the intended exit in the correct lane esp if driving somthing abit slow like a non-turbo diesel van.

Mike.

layke

Illkillya wrote:

The way I understand it, there are two rules of thumb:

1) If the exit you are taking is after "12 O'Clock", then you can indicate right.
2) If the exit you are taking is the third or subsequent exit, then you can indicate right.

Othwise I don't see any reason for indicating right.

Correct, this drives me bannanas.

My advice, try and keep a distance form those people.

As for the government, they keep slapping up speed bumps everywhere. My shocks are crying and my chassy is scratched to bits. I pity anyone in a porche or any lowered car for that fact.

I think the best thing they could do is do a few ads with driving tips in them. Education is the best policy and TV will have the widest target audience.

Cucullan

I hate people who drift lanes too really annoying you'd swear roundabouts were hard to use. How simple is this
First exit, stay in left lane indicate left approaching roundabout
Second exit, again left lane indicate left after passing first exit
Third or more exits, right lane indicating left after passing exit before your exit.
Not exacly rocket science but still so many people don't know it through lack of knowledge of the rules of the road. 2 minutes would learn it.

lazylad

mobpd wrote:

can someone please confirm if it is correct in ireland that when approaching a roundabout and you want to go straight ahead that you should indicate right??? Its just that this is not the rule in other countries and I have seen loads of people coming up to roundabouts in the left hand lane (correct if you going straight on) but with right indicator flashing - is very confusing - I always give them a bit of leeway in case they really intend to go round the outer lane to turn right....

You dont indicate to go straight ahead! You just approach the roundabout in the left hand(outer)lane, when you pass the first exit indicate left! Thats the only way to do it most people who intend to go straight on and are in the right hand lane and dont indicate at all and who are too hesitant really do my head in!

HotRodDub

First of all I know how to use a roundabout, as should most people, and yes people in Micra's you are allowed to use them correctly also.

But the funny thing I find is that there are certain roundabouts I use on my way to and from work each day that I have to use incorrectly otherwise I'll get wrecked. This is especially the case in some roundabouts where I am going straight ahead if I stick to the left lane someone on the right lane will try to beat me to my exit. I know that with these roundabouts in question 90% of the traffic is either going left or straight ahead and it would make sense to have road marking arrows on the lanes to make the left lane for turning left and right lane for going straight ahead and turning right, but until that happens I'll have to keep using it incorrectly!!

Hagar

The idea that you don't have to indicate when going straight makes no sense to me. The purpose of indicators is to indicate your intention to turn. Is everyone else supposed to know where you got on the roundabout and where you intend getting off?

If you get on at the "bottom" of a roundabout and intend getting off at the "top" how is a motorist who gets behind you at the "left" supposed to know where you got on and what are you up to? You're just another vehicle to him and unless you indicate left before you leave the roundabout he is only able to guess at what might be your intention.

Indicate right joining a roundabout and leave your indicator on until you change it to "left" before you leave the roundabout. IMHO that is the only way other motorists can tell your intentions for the whole of the time you are on the roundabout.

NeMiSiS

http://www.2pass.co.uk/roundabout.htm
TK

lazylad

HotRodDub wrote:

First of all I know how to use a roundabout, as should most people, and yes people in Micra's you are allowed to use them correctly also.

But the funny thing I find is that there are certain roundabouts I use on my way to and from work each day that I have to use incorrectly otherwise I'll get wrecked. This is especially the case in some roundabouts where I am going straight ahead if I stick to the left lane someone on the right lane will try to beat me to my exit. I know that with these roundabouts in question 90% of the traffic is either going left or straight ahead and it would make sense to have road marking arrows on the lanes to make the left lane for turning left and right lane for going straight ahead and turning right, but until that happens I'll have to keep using it incorrectly!!

Yes that is really annoying. I work at a place where there is a roundabout where most people use the right hand lane to go straight ahead and dont use an indicator to take the exit. The result, they pull right in front of me taking the exit! Its ridiculous!!! Then they make it out as if they were right!!!!
There's a roundabout outside wexford, today I was coming from enniscorthy going straight ahead,this eejit on the right lane this eejit in a jeep stopped for an ambulance to enter the roundabout when it wasn't even on it. If i wasnt as far behind as i was i was straight into it. IT was some dope who kept stopping and speeding up. A few minutes later, a van pulled out in front of him almost into him. I was delighted!

mackerski

Hagar wrote:

The idea that you don't have to indicate when going straight makes no sense to me. The purpose of indicators is to indicate your intention to turn. Is everyone else supposed to know where you got on the roundabout and where you intend getting off?

If you get on at the "bottom" of a roundabout and intend getting off at the "top" how is a motorist who gets behind you at the "left" supposed to know where you got on and what are you up to? You're just another vehicle to him and unless you indicate left before you leave the roundabout he is only able to guess at what might be your intention.

Indicate right joining a roundabout and leave your indicator on until you change it to "left" before you leave the roundabout. IMHO that is the only way other motorists can tell your intentions for the whole of the time you are on the roundabout.

What you describe goes against the ROTR and make no more sense. Unless I'm misreading your advice, you think drivers should always indicate right approaching the roundabout. Why? An indicator is only useful if it tells other drivers something they don't already know, and the one guaranteed rule of roundabouts is that you have to drive onto them.

There are a few absolutes of roundabout use:

1. Always indicate left when the next exit is the one you want to take. When taking the first exit, indicate left as you approach the roundabout.

2. Indicate right on approaching the roundabout only in specific cases. Texts differ on how they like to describe this, some talking about doing it if leaving at or after the third exit, others preferring to take the half-way point as the divider (which to me is more logical, since it makes more sense on three-arm roundabouts). The principle here is that, while approaching the roundabout, you're informing traffic that you're going most of the way around. While on the roundabout, you keep the right indicator on until your exit is next, then you switch to the left indicator. Keeping the right one on doesn't tell motorists a lot (unless they saw where you joined), but it does at least guarantee that you don't want the next exit.

3. Correct lane use depends on the number of exits. On the most usual roundabout design, with two lanes feeding in and a "crossroads" layout, it's left for left, right for right and either for straight. The guiding principle here is to to get you closer to the centre the further around the roundabout you go, and to keep cars for different exits from colliding (which is also one of the goals of correct indicating). The number of lanes feeding out of the roundabout can also be relevant here, though you usually get as much space as you had at the entrance, even if it narrows soon after.

Germany doesn't recognise anything other than indicating right before your exit (mirrored from our left). I'm not sure whether this is because roundabouts are so novel or because they know the public can't keep any more information in their heads (and there's some evidence of that...). Though they also don't really do big roundabouts like we do.

Dermot

NeMiSiS

For your driving test they should make you go round the Red Cow round about twenty five times.. wheh wheh wheh
TK

Seth Brundle

NeMiSiS wrote:

For your driving test they should make you go round the Red Cow round about twenty five times.. wheh wheh wheh
TK

The red cow roundabout is nothing - its busy but not technically difficult. Try the walkinstown roundabout instead!

Hagar

My mind is made up. I'm never going to indicate again.
That's it, never. Why should I be the odd one out?

Just to get some value out of my indicators I'll just stick on the hazards now and again when I'm double parked.

BlueShaun

Hagar wrote:

AFAIK you are supposed to indicate left just before joining a roundabout and leave the left indicator on until you pass the last exit prior to the one you want to use. At this point you indicate right.

jebus! did u get ur licence in the 50s or something?

Even if you reverse that procedure, its still wrong.

Pet Hate, people who just go the whole way round in the outside lane. Reach t3 and want to exit, and that car u thought had to go by t2 is still there, leaving u trying to cut across a lane of traffic that shouldnt exist.....

Hagar

BlueShaun wrote:

jebus! did u get ur licence in the 50s or something?

Even if you reverse that procedure, its still wrong.

Pet Hate, people who just go the whole way round in the outside lane. Reach t3 and want to exit, and that car u thought had to go by t2 is still there, leaving u trying to cut across a lane of traffic that shouldnt exist.....

Hagar wrote:

Holy Sh1t. I forgot I'm in France where we drive on the right.

I'll get me coat. ( Get's coat, indicates right, heads off into the sunset )

I know this is a deadly boring thread but you should read on a bit before you jump in.

0utshined

Hagar wrote:

The idea that you don't have to indicate when going straight makes no sense to me. The purpose of indicators is to indicate your intention to turn. Is everyone else supposed to know where you got on the roundabout and where you intend getting off?

If you get on at the "bottom" of a roundabout and intend getting off at the "top" how is a motorist who gets behind you at the "left" supposed to know where you got on and what are you up to? You're just another vehicle to him and unless you indicate left before you leave the roundabout he is only able to guess at what might be your intention.

Indicate right joining a roundabout and leave your indicator on until you change it to "left" before you leave the roundabout. IMHO that is the only way other motorists can tell your intentions for the whole of the time you are on the roundabout.

Hagar's method makes the most sense to me and if it were in place it would cause a lot less confusion. If you're taking the first left then indicate left going into the roundabout otherwise indicate right going in and left after the exit before the one you're taking.

When someone enters a roundabout with no indicators and intends to drive straight through there's nothing to distinguish them from someone who cba using indicators and is going to take whatever exit they feel like.

seamus

0utshined wrote:

Hagar's method makes the most sense to me and if it were in place it would cause a lot less confusion. If you're taking the first left then indicate left going into the roundabout otherwise indicate right going in and left after the exit before the one you're taking.

But then you're removing a signal.

Indication is for the benefit of other road users, to help them make decisions, which in turn aids their progress. Look at it this way;

You have two cars approaching a four-exit, two-lane roundabout, coming towards eachother. Both drivers are in the left-hand lane and want to go straight. Let's say driver A reaches the junction 1 second before driver B, and enters the junction.

Using the conventional system, Driver A doesn't indicate. Driver B sees this, knows that Driver A is probably going straight through, and goes. Even if Driver A just didn't bother indicating, Driver B will probably still have enough time to go, as he has entered the roundabout at the time when Driver A is only halfway across.

Using the system you outline above, Driver A indicates right as he enters the roundabout. Driver B sees this indication and he must wait, as he doesn't know if Driver A is going right or straight through. Even though he would have time to go, as outlined above, chances are he won't because there is a good chance that Driver A is actually turning right. Driver A will be leaving the roundabout by the time Driver B actually enters it.

Now take a busy Dublin roundabout with twenty cars at each entry point and watch the delay grow.

Ultimately both systems fall down at the same point - the drivers. Even in the system you favour, someone who just couldn't be arsed indicating delays everybody.

I would argue that for the current system, people will enter the roundabout even if someone just didn't bother indicating. In your system, if someone enters the roundabout without indicating, no-one will risk going at all, since they can't even guess at where the guy is going. More delays.

0utshined

I'm gonna disagree with you Seamus. As I understand Hagar's method if Driver A had intended going round the roundabout they would (should) have been in the right hand lane not the lane.

Any system is only going to be as good as the people taking part in it but as you've said yourself at the moment there is guesswork involved when a car has no indicators on. You can be fairly sure they're going straight through but the no-indicator brigade mean you can never be 100%.

You mention that my prefered option would cause more delays. It possibly would but I'd prefer to err on the side of caution with things like this and would rather a delay than an accident.

seamus wrote:

Indication is for the benefit of other road users, to help them make decisions, which in turn aids their progress.

Ultimately both systems fall down at the same point - the drivers.

I agree with you on these points. I find the first one is missed by a large percentage of drivers in this country but that's a topic for another thread.

Capt'n Midnight

You always indicate left when leaving a roundabout.

If you are leaving on the 1st exit, you just indicate left.

If you are leaving on the 2nd exit, you don't indicate as you enter the roundabout and as soon as you pass the first exit you start indicating left.

If you are leaving by the 3rd or subsquent roundabout you indicate right as you enter the roundabout, and then indicate left when you get to your turn.

So on Walkinstown roundabout going straight through (exit 3) you indicate right as you enter it in the middle lane.

It's the 3 way roundabouts at nearly-T junctions that are really confusing - in theory you should never indicate right on them unless you are doing a U-turn, in practice you take it slow on them because no one seems to know how to indicate on them. one of the many different conventions seems to be that people indicate right if the turn is more than 180 degrees away.

DubTony

0utshined wrote:

I'm gonna disagree with you Seamus. As I understand Hagar's method if Driver A had intended going round the roundabout they would (should) have been in the right hand lane not the lane.

If a driver enters a roundabout in the left lane with the intention of going straight and uses his right indicator, the driver behind him to the right who is going right will get confused as to the first drivers intention and will have to sit back expecting the fist driver to go right by either cutting across or following the left lane all the way round, but the first driver will go straight and the driver will have been delayed by a few seconds for no reason and if 20,000 cars a day did that everyone would be confused and very late for work.

DubTony

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

It's the 3 way roundabouts at nearly-T junctions that are really confusing - in theory you should never indicate right on them unless you are doing a U-turn, in practice you take it slow on them because no one seems to know how to indicate on them.

Agreed, take it slow. Disagree with indicating. There are 3 of these things where I live and using th indicator to turn right is essential as cars coming toward you expect you to indicate if you're going to go across them. If you don't there's the sudden braking thing going. And anyway, doesn't the guy behind deserve to know that you're going right?

As for Walkinstown roundabout. Well, everyone to his own. I wouldn't indicate your way on it, but it's a free for all anyway. Strangely, I've only seen or heard of a handful of accidents on it in the last 20 years .

Seth Brundle

DubTony wrote:

As for Walkinstown roundabout.
...
Strangely, I've only seen or heard of a handful of accidents on it in the last 20 years .

Same here but it is intimidating for a newbie/nervous driver.

Regarding the best choice of signalling, etc. on Irish roundabouts - personally I don't see the point in discussing it here as people in this country cannot drive and you will always come across bad driving daily:-
* approaching the roundabout in an incorect lane
* entering the roundabout in an incorrect lane
* bad lane manouvre tactics whilst on the roundabout
* indicating incorrectly or not at all
* exiting the roundabout in the incorrect lane
* probably loads more

Given that our government cannot give proper instructions on how to use roundabouts (or on most other driving skills!) whats the point in us deciding on whats best? Until there is proper training with a coherent set of driving guidelines, followed up by proper enforcement, nothing will change!

[apols of I sound kinda cranky - I kinda am!]

_Kaiser_

To be honest I don't like roundabouts anyway because of the guesswork involved as described here where people either don't indicate at all (very common around Blanch) or have their own system which may or may not make much sense depending on your point of view.

It's a lazy solution anyway IMHO.. better to put in a proper junction with lights I think.

Seth Brundle

Kaiser2000 wrote:

It's a lazy solution anyway IMHO.. better to put in a proper junction with lights I think.

...but you still get fúckwits who don't know how to use them - amber/red gamblers, not understanding filters, not understanding yellow box rules, etc.

seamus

Kaiser2000 wrote:

It's a lazy solution anyway IMHO.. better to put in a proper junction with lights I think.

I disagree. There are plenty of times when a roundabout is the logical choice so as to cause minimum delay. Especially in the evenings, roundabouts allow you to navigate quiet roads effortlessly and efficiently without having to stop for lights when no other vehicle is using the junction.

Unless you're saying that the Blanch roundabout is a lazy option where I agree. All motorway interchanges should be pure slip road, and no lights.

mike65

here's my 4 turn roundabout diagram.



I have'nt crashed or being crash into on a roundabout yet.

Mike.

mackerski

mike65 wrote:

here's my 4 turn roundabout diagram.

That's exactly right - though you omitted the possibility of approaching in the right lane for straight on. Your diagram does a particularly good job of illustrating why the conventions are the way they are - your lines don't cross each other, ergo, they represent a usage that will not cause collisions.

Dermot

Hagar

It has to be said Mike that's an excellent diagram.

Seth Brundle

Good diagram as already mentioned. However, not all roundabouts are as straight forward. M50/N3 (Blanch) roundabout springs to mind. Heading outbound the roundabout suddenly changes from being a wide two laner to a three laner with no notice. Frequently people don't know which lane to be in and whether or not they need to indicate as they may or may not really be changing lane depending on how you view it!

BrianD3

TBH, there's always going to be confusion when it comes to roundabouts. Even in this thread there seem to be differing opinions as to what you're supposed to do if you're taking a 2nd exit which is past 12 o'clock on an imaginary clock face. My ISM instructor taught me to treat this like a 3rd exit (approach in RH lane, indicate right and then left) and this method feels "right" to me. But then others say that it's irrelvant whether the exit is past 12 o clock or not, that a 2nd exit is a 2nd exit and that you should just indicate left after you pass the 1st exit. Does the ROTR say anything about this?

One other thing to mention is that sometimes the design of the roundabouts and inconsistencies in design can confuse people. Eg 3 lane roundabouts where road markings tell you that you can take the 3rd exit from the middle lane. Drivers see this and then apply this principle to all roundabouts and use lanes other than the rightmost lane to take the 3rd exit. So then we get the annoyance of drivers going all the way around a 2 lane roundabout in the left lane and cutting up drivers who are going straight.

hmmm

I wouldn't mind some advice as to how to indicate on those insane roundabouts off the M50. E.g. approaching the Red Cow roundabout from the Long Mile road direction, where lanes change in the middle of the roundabout itself. It's all very well if you know what is about to happen (but even then..), but if you're new to the area you end up indicating in about 20 different directions to move left, on the roundabout, so as to try and get into a lane which will let you hit the M50 northwards.

BrianD3

hmmm wrote:

I wouldn't mind some advice as to how to indicate on those insane roundabouts off the M50. E.g. approaching the Red Cow roundabout from the Long Mile road direction, where lanes change in the middle of the roundabout itself. It's all very well if you know what is about to happen (but even then..), but if you're new to the area you end up indicating in about 20 different directions to move left, on the roundabout, so as to try and get into a lane which will let you hit the M50 northwards.

I'm not familiar with the Mad Cow (thank god) but the Lucan roundabout has improved in the last few months thanks to a slight change to the road markings and layout. Now, if you're heading south along the M50 and want to head west at the roundabout, you no longer end up changing lanes in the middle of the roundabout. Also, the way it's setup now it's much less likely that you'll get muppets going all the way around the roundabout while keeping left.

Capt'n Midnight

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundabout

Animated Gif showing how to indicate and use lanes (86KB) - http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/ec/UK_Roundabout_8_Cars.gif

magic roundabout pic
http://carcino.gen.nz/images/image.phpi/7db3cb30/roundabout.jpg&cb=1115204527

Another one

Hagar

Would anyone like to explain how to negotiate this roundabout...

A bright shiny penny for anyone who can

The Magic Roundabout, Swindon, UK

Capt'n Midnight

Hagar wrote:

Would anyone like to explain how to negotiate this roundabout...

A bright shiny penny for anyone who can

The Magic Roundabout, Swindon, UK

You could go clockwise on the outer roundabouts taking the second exit each time until you get used to it. Then you'd have the option of taking the the third exit on one of the miniroundabouts and and go counter clockwise around the middle.

Hagar

Aha.. but where would you indicate...

I favour putting a revolving amber light on each corner of the roof and hope for the best.

PM me and I'll organise your penny.