Computer Science - Where?

cianclarke

I'm fairly set on doing Computer Science, but I'm at a loss as to where to do it. I'm posting this in the TCD boards, as TCD looks like the best out of the lot, but I'm not entirely sure. From an employers perspective, where is going to look best - Trinity, UCC or UCD? The course itself - any feedback on which is best? "Best" might be a pretty subjective word, but would you recommend / know somebody who would recommend the course at Trinity? Another point, the points are only 350, and although I know HC3 in honours maths is needed, but this has me somewhat put off. Makes it look like a bit of a mickey mouse course... I'm looking into going into networking / web design when I'm finished, but not particularly stuck on anything in particular. Is Computer Science the best degree in Ireland for the IT industry?
Finally - Which is better. A BSc, or BA (Mod)?

Not sure if this is the right forum for all this, feel free to move it if not. Any help would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Cian

RicardoSmith

DCU probably has the best degree. Though if I was going back to college I'd go to Trinity or UCD just because the "college experience" is better in a bigger college IMO.

rainbow kirby

Another point, the points are only 350, and although I know HC3 in honours maths is needed, but this has me somewhat put off. Makes it look like a bit of a mickey mouse course...

350 is about as high as the points for CS are anywhere. My course (DN030 BSc CS, UCD) was 315 points this year... DCU (probably the best CS course in the country) is about 300... so it doesn't make it look like a mickey mouse course by any stretch of the imagination. The points only reflect demand for the course, and IT-related courses are not much in demand at the moment.

Time Magazine

Yeah I was told Computer Applications in DCU is the best course unless you want to specifically do CS, as opposed to "computers".

Don't give a flying f*ck about the points. The points have nothing to do with the quality of the course; it's the relative result of demand to supply and will usually be low for "nerd" courses like CS.

Note that the CS degree in TCD is really a BSc., but the University of Dublin (Trinity's big brother, don't ask) issues BA's for courses that deserve BSc's for traditional reasons etc etc. The BA thing doesn't really make a difference in TCD - it's the actual course.

skipn_easy

I can't really speak for the other courses, but the Trinity computer science course was very good. It is very theoretical, and at least in my day covered 50% hardware and 50% software which is unusual but I quite liked knowing all the hardware stuff even though I'll never use it in my career.

As for whether a BA or a BSc matters, I really don't think so. I think employers are much more interested in the actual subjects you studied and the practical work you did, as opposed to the title of the course. I got a BA and it didn't stop me from getting any jobs. The same goes for the points, sure they are quite low, but employers are not going to know that. I guess the worry is that you'll end up with a lower quality degree because people with lower points/less interest will end up doing it, but I doubt they would make it far enough through the course to count. In my first year, our class halved in size at the exams.

Between the courses, the disadvantage that I noticed Trinity having was that there is no work placement and some of the lecturers focus is more on research than on teaching. But I presume you get bad lecturers everywhere (and I should point out, it was never a case of them not knowing things but more sometimes being unable to communicate to lowly students).

The only other point I have is that prestige can be quite important, I'm not sure how well known the other colleges are outside of Ireland but Trinity College is a well-recognised university and this will stand you in good stead. I've been told this many times and have had it proved to me by people who are desperate to hire students from Trinity.

Shadowlands

Off topic: Hello to rainbow kirby. ::waves:: I've seen you on the collegeconfidential forums.

Nietzschean

there is 2 strains in college's for computers courses along the cs vein

cs itself, in tcd, ucd, and ucc(and probally somewhere i've forgot) , alot of theory, some programming done usually but not very indepth, mix of hardware and software.

applied cs style, comp apps in dcu and comp systems in ul : much more programming and 'preparation for the workforce' style courses in these , easier to get a job out of for the average joe who doesn't do anything above and beyond what is required. Though argueably not as future proof....


It really depends on what you want out of the degree tbh

And then there's Computer Engineering, through the general engineering degree [TR032]

Crash

yes, but thats for gays. and engineers. pot kettle black tbh.

cianclarke

Wow, didn't expect this much of a reply... Many many thanks to all who have already replied, it's given me a good idea of why to go where and whatnot... A few more questions...
Firstly, having read this thread I'm still somewhat set on trinity, although nothing firm - I'm not very fond of the idea having the campus scattered all over the city (correct me if I have the wrong idea here!).

I'm not entirely sure what I want to do after uni', I'm just looking for a "backbone" degree in computers - I might persue something completely different afterwards, but if I do go down the computers road it'l probably be network admin/web dev, and I also have an interest in wireless technology and that.

One thing that has put me off any CS course is the maths element. Simply put, I don't enjoy maths - and I'm not particularly good at it. I'm finding LC Honours Maths an uphill struggle, although I'm managing okay. Would I manage with the maths element of the CS course?



Also, work experience was mentioned. I'd imagine this would be a huge huge advantage - and I'm surprised it's not offered. All the jobs in computers I've ever seen advertised have asked for past experience. Is the lack of job placement a huge disadvantage? Would I be able to get a summer-job in IT for the experience during the course? Any options here?

Theres also a "CS with German" option. This worth considering? I'm doing fairly well with German in school, and I'd like to develop some degree of fluency - but I have no interest in the linguistics element of it, I just want to be able to speak the language. Given my situation would I be best off going for pure CS and learning German by my own means?

Finally an off-topic quick question, when you're staying on-campus are you renting for the college year, or just per term, IE "p*ss off out during the holidays" business?

Thanks for all the help, it's much appreciated. Not many people from down south (I'm Co. Waterford) go to Dublin, it's nearly all UCC, so it's handy to have this resource.

article6

cianclarke wrote:

Finally an off-topic quick question, when you're staying on-campus are you renting for the college year, or just per term, IE "p*ss off out during the holidays" business?

You can stay through Christmas until around the middle of June, as long as you've paid the second semester's room fees, that is. I'm afraid I know nothing about CS though.

cianclarke

Even that tidbit is a help, thanks!

regi

I think if you want to work in IT, it really doesn't matter where you study for a degree, or even which course you take to a lesser extent. Its your experience and the things you learned yourself that will really count.

If I was to recommend a technical hire, I'd go for a non-compsci student who was a maths network admin over a compsci student who couldn't show any previous experience. Example picked purely at random

Having said that, when I did compsci in TCD, it was a real mix of hardware/software. If you are going to work in business IT, little on the course is going to be practically relevant, but the awareness of how the bare metal works is always useful. It was a little mathsy, as far as I remember too.

Pet

Given my situation would I be best off going for pure CS and learning German by my own means?

Most students as far as I'm aware have the option of doing a language module in the evenings. I think it takes up about 2-3 hours a week or something, and it will count towards 5% of your marks. So if you decide not to do CSLL or whatever, you can still do German (they have both a foundation and an intermediate course).

Crash

Cian: pm me if you have any questions - going into second year cs myself and know a fair bit about the course so if its any help...

cianclarke

Pet - That'd be fairly handy actually!
Thanks crash - I might just do that!

And once again thanks to all who have posted.

kas

If you want to hedge your bets so to speak then UCD has a BA Comp Sci.

It's Arts (2 subjects) with Comp Sci in first year, 50/50 Arts/Comp Sci in 2nd and 3rd and 100% Comp Sci in 4th year.

I like it (2nd year).

KamikazeBananze

Going into CS this year as well. Good to know some people here are doing it as well.

Anyone already through first year: any advice for us poor first-years on survival or something?

Crash

er - dont let dld creep you out when the lecturer says "if it makes it any easier, think of this in terms of a four dimensional hypercube"

i nearly pissed myself when he said that - til i realised that he's just insane.

ah good times!

lego

The Computer Applications course in DCU was the first degree offered by the DCU and is Ireland's oldest computer science degree. The degree is more in demand than any other computer degree in Ireland and is the most highly regarded computer degree in the country, it has three times more first preferences through the Central Applications Office system than the next most sought after computer course in Ireland, Computer Science in Trinity College, Dublin. With 300 places per year, it also has the largest student intake of any computer science degree in Ireland (compared to 64 places per year in the computer science degree in TCD or 50 places per year in the computer science degree in UCD).

Unlike most computer courses, the Degree is also recognised by the IEI (Institution of Engineers of Ireland) and can be used to gain entry into the H.Dip for teaching technology(only in the junior cert), maths and computers.

Institution of Engineers of Ireland site:
http://www.iei.ie/Home/index.asp
(with completion of post degree examinations it can lead to a C.Eng title)

Useful wiki definition about DCU in general and source of above quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin_City_University

Human resources departments in some companies specificially seek out students with DCU Computer Applications degrees, the relatively low points can be explained by the large number of places in the course. Companies also value the integrated training placement in the CA course.

The second best CS course in Ireland would be in either UL or TCD

Nietzschean

best is a meaningless term here and shouldn't be used, the courses are entirely different, and have different goals, their only thing in common is really that they involve computers, any appliciant should see what the courses cover and decide based on that. One could argue about companies seeking out applicants from any college as that is entirely subjective.

drfisher

lego wrote:

The Computer Applications course in DCU was the first degree offered by the DCU and is Ireland's oldest computer science degree.

Some dubious facts here. DCU was only founded in 1980. TCD CS started in 1979. The TCD CS department was founded in 1969.

Crash

actually, the TCD evening CS course started a good 8-10 years before that, as at least two or three of the people in my local did it

rsynnott

Regi wrote:

Having said that, when I did compsci in TCD, it was a real mix of hardware/software. If you are going to work in business IT, little on the course is going to be practically relevant, but the awareness of how the bare metal works is always useful. It was a little mathsy, as far as I remember too.

They've been gently dumbing it down (especially the maths) for some years now tho. They have also replaced half of Eiffel in 2nd year with "advanced java", an oxymoron if ever I saw one, and cut down electrotech severely. Tsk.

On the plus side, 3rd year artificial intelligence is now done in a sensible order (Prolog first)

Dermo

lego wrote:

The Computer Applications course in DCU was the first degree offered by the DCU and is Ireland's oldest computer science degree. The degree is more in demand than any other computer degree in Ireland and is the most highly regarded computer degree in the country, it has three times more first preferences through the Central Applications Office system than the next most sought after computer course in Ireland, Computer Science in Trinity College, Dublin. With 300 places per year, it also has the largest student intake of any computer science degree in Ireland (compared to 64 places per year in the computer science degree in TCD or 50 places per year in the computer science degree in UCD).

Unlike most computer courses, the Degree is also recognised by the IEI (Institution of Engineers of Ireland) and can be used to gain entry into the H.Dip for teaching technology(only in the junior cert), maths and computers.

Institution of Engineers of Ireland site:
http://www.iei.ie/Home/index.asp
(with completion of post degree examinations it can lead to a C.Eng title)

Useful wiki definition about DCU in general and source of above quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin_City_University

Human resources departments in some companies specificially seek out students with DCU Computer Applications degrees, the relatively low points can be explained by the large number of places in the course. Companies also value the integrated training placement in the CA course.

The second best CS course in Ireland would be in either UL or TCD

The Computer Science degree is also recognised by the IEI.

TCD CS is a BA course but it is a BA (Mod) which "apparently" makes a lot of difference. aka more letters after you're name when you finished

BrenC

Im a first year cs student, so far its going well.

Cian, I think you're thinking of DIT a bit because trinity isn't scattered over the city, in CS we have a brand new shiny building and the department of CS is the largest department in the College.

While we do do maths, basically its higher leaving cert standard, Im not finding it that hard at all, like we've just after doing integration and its the same content as LC, hardly nothing new to learn.

I found Higher maths for the leaving hard at first, like I got 40% in my mocks but I managed to get a B on the day, its all about preperation.

While the course is hardware and software focused, you basically learn how every aspect of computers work which most courses if computer science should teach you.

All in all Im very happy, The CSLL course has different content to normal CS, like we've do more work on computers really. Just ask some CSLL students and Im sure they'll fill you in.

Good luck,

Bren

cianclarke

BrenC wrote:

Im a first year cs student, so far its going well.

Cian, I think you're thinking of DIT a bit because trinity isn't scattered over the city, in CS we have a brand new shiny building and the department of CS is the largest department in the College.

While we do do maths, basically its higher leaving cert standard, Im not finding it that hard at all, like we've just after doing integration and its the same content as LC, hardly nothing new to learn.

I found Higher maths for the leaving hard at first, like I got 40% in my mocks but I managed to get a B on the day, its all about preperation.

While the course is hardware and software focused, you basically learn how every aspect of computers work which most courses if computer science should teach you.

All in all Im very happy, The CSLL course has different content to normal CS, like we've do more work on computers really. Just ask some CSLL students and Im sure they'll fill you in.

Good luck,

Bren

Bren - thanks a million for the reply, great to hear positive news on the hons. maths front! I'm after getting 47% in my xmas tests, just hoping I can pull up for the pre and the actual exam.

rsynnott

BrenC wrote:

Im a first year cs student, so far its going well.

Cian, I think you're thinking of DIT a bit because trinity isn't scattered over the city, in CS we have a brand new shiny building and the department of CS is the largest department in the College.

Brand new shiny building? What? We are but tenants of the psychology dept. in INS, I believe, the O'Reilly is hardly new, and some stuff is indeed in Oriel House, which is scattered over the city a bit, or at least outside campus.

djmarkus

Hmm.. Dont see many people sticking up for DIT....

Nietzschean

that would be a bit unlikely, considering this is the tcd board....

ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI

rsynnott wrote:

Brand new shiny building? What? We are but tenants of the psychology dept. in INS, I believe, the O'Reilly is hardly new, and some stuff is indeed in Oriel House, which is scattered over the city a bit, or at least outside campus.

I think he's referring to the The Lloyd Building, where us poor JF chaps have approx. 98.3% of our lectures located....

Crash

aye - so do the rest of CS - however the Lloyd Building is also known as the institute of NeuroScience - who owns what in there i'd love to know at this stage.

muckwarrior

I was told a couple of years ago by a guy that works in HR in IONA that they favour DCU and DIT graduates as they have much more practical knowledge of CS than TCD or UCD grads. His opinion was that they knew all the theory but couldn't program for shite! You're probably better off picking DCU. The DIT course is top notch, but it's based in Kevin St which is a bit of a ****hole!

rsynnott

muckwarrior wrote:

I was told a couple of years ago by a guy that works in HR in IONA that they favour DCU and DIT graduates as they have much more practical knowledge of CS than TCD or UCD grads. His opinion was that they knew all the theory but couldn't program for shite! You're probably better off picking DCU. The DIT course is top notch, but it's based in Kevin St which is a bit of a ****hole!

For the Trinity course, you do very much have to learn to program yourself; there is, as you say, little practical programming. This is not necessarily a bad thing, provided you are capable of learning on your own.

ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI

rsynnott wrote:

provided you are capable of learning on your own.

I came to college to be spoonfed damnit.....

Agent Smith

didnt we all?

djmarkus

Nietzschean wrote:

that would be a bit unlikely, considering this is the tcd board....

Well it beats me why this is in the trinner board as only about 30% of it content is about TCD.


As for computer science in DIT, the honours course is well rounded, i'm in 3rd year and i've learned java, c, c++, programming languages (other interpreted languages aswell), a downside for me(mightnt be for you) is all the biz subjects thrown in for the sake of it, e.g. communications, management, marketing, financial account, biz law, and economics.

And you have a chance to do work placement for a semester in 3rd year, which is a big plus with most employers.

rsynnott

agent smith wrote:

didnt we all?

Well, it's getting more practical (*shudder*) these days, what with "advanced java". "Advanced Java"! Why, in my day....

djmarkus wrote:

the biz subjects thrown in for the sake of it, e.g. communications, management, marketing, financial account, biz law, and economics.

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeek

Nietzschean

djmarkus wrote:

Well it beats me why this is in the trinner board as only about 30% of it content is about TCD.

Odd i'd have said at least 80%, the rest is more rambling than much else.... Anyway its trinity students/staff that are the ones going on about everything here hence being the tcd board and not seeing alot of dit support...

GrumPy

Im thinking about CS in trinity also, not to good on the maths front though, ill be doing pass for the LC this year, but i think ill be able to manage a B3 *hopes* also interested in comp applications in DCU wondering what course will be less "mathsie"

Chardee MacDennis

are there any final year Cs students knocking abbout here? i presume you guys to a fyp like us ICTers? is it possible to change the topic(not supervisor) at this stage, just realised i'm in way over my head!!!

rsynnott

Irish GrumPy wrote:

Im thinking about CS in trinity also, not to good on the maths front though, ill be doing pass for the LC this year, but i think ill be able to manage a B3 *hopes* also interested in comp applications in DCU wondering what course will be less "mathsie"

Trinity's not an option then; higher maths is a course requirement.

GrumPy

I got the impression for some reason only needed a B3 in pass linky? ah well, theres plenty more courses!

rsynnott

Irish GrumPy wrote:

I got the impression for some reason only needed a B3 in pass linky? ah well, theres plenty more courses!

You need a B3 in pass for the night course (the BSc one). As far as I'm aware, you also need to pay for that one tho.

Crash

^^all the above is true.

GrumPy

what about the non-night course?

rsynnott

Irish GrumPy wrote:

what about the non-night course?

Some mark or other in higher; I don't recall. Nothing dramatic, possibly a C, but it does have to be higher. There may be some form of exemption if you're a mature student.

(Last year, I explained all this to at least 50 people at the department open day. It seems a common problem.)

ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI

You need a C3 in higher, which is a bit thick...the maths is hardly taxing (unfortunately) and anyone who did decent in Ordinary should be well able for it...

Crash

*shrug* i can understand the higher requirement - its not taxing but it does require elements of the honours course to be known if you dont wanna be dragged through the mire.

GrumPy

ah well! DCU looks more promising :rolleyes: for stupid people like me *shakes fist at honours maths peoples*

rsynnott

ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI wrote:

You need a C3 in higher, which is a bit thick...the maths is hardly taxing (unfortunately) and anyone who did decent in Ordinary should be well able for it...

CS already has a ludicrously high dropout rate; there is no cause to go making it easier to get in.