Is a college degree essential in life?

PHB

I've recently realised I am without a doubt brainwashed by the department of education, so I was wondering what everyone else thought.

Do you actually require a college degree to get a decent job?
Does it just make it easier?
Does it actually make it easier?

If you are highly capable and could succedd in college if you wanted to, would you actually need the degree, or will you do fine without it?

djmarkus

I would say yes, but in the ireland of today its "Not what you know, its who you know"

AARRRGH

No. Most of the stuff you learn in college has nothing to do with the real world.

For example, my computer science degree, i could have thought it to myself in about 3 months. And none of it can be applied to the work place. A complete waste of time.

Also, you can just pretend you have a degree. No employers check.

angeldelight

I dunno, not necessarily. Depends what area you're interested in working in. Obviously there's some jobs you simply can't get without a degree, mainly for the safety of others! Thinking of my mum as an example, she didn't go to college, was just doing few small jobs for years then 5 years ago she joined company she's with now at very bottom level. She's now managing 70 people, the majority of whom joined the company before her and have degrees in a related subject. She just works hard and does very good interviews! None of the jobs she had previous to this one were in a similar area so she really did start at the bottom.

evad_lhorg

ah yes she is a great woman!

Necronomicon

As mentioned above somewhere, it all depends on what direction you want to go. There are obviously loads of areas where a degree is needed.
But talking about life in general, no I don't think a college degree is absolutely essential. There's always options. I know a few people who had no real interest in going to college, people who wanted to do a trade and start working for a living as soon as they left school. They're as happy as the next person.

Dave!

Well you obviously don't need one to become a brick-layer, but for alot of jobs, yes, you do. I'm starting college tomorrow, but not because I want a degree, just for the experience and to make good friends, have a laugh, etc.

BlitzKrieg

Do you actually require a college degree to get a decent job?

Mostly no...depends what sort of job your thinking of. Some jobs are highly specialized and would defitnally require a degree in that field at least. Others would require you impressing them with your CV and a number of years back a degree would be very impressive...not so much today. So alot of jobs will be looking for a little bit more.

Does it just make it easier?

Depends on what your planning to study and what career your taking.

Does it actually make it easier?

Not really. Experiance is a vital part of work and nothign in college will replace it. People who have worked in that industry longer will always be employed and promoted before. But College (again depending on subject and job) will make it easier to get hired into the industry and after you get that initial experiance you will start climbing.

angeldelight

evad_lhorg wrote:

ah yes she is a great woman!

Thats not why I said it, for the most part what she does/doesn't do in work means little to me. Was only backing up my opinion with something I know to be true rather than just giving answer off top of my head

Aislinn

Here's my two kopeks...Not worth a damn in this market but I'll share anyway:

Not knowing what area you are in or what field you're interested in, I would say that :

A) You do NOT need a degree if you intend to be self employed.
You DO need a degree if you intend to work for anyone else simply for the social standing and "power" it gives you in the workplace...


Personally, I have been self employed for so long that I doubt very much I could keep a job. I've been so independent for so long, which breeds a certain rebelliousness (and a bit of arrogance, mind!) that I'd probably end up fired, not because I can't do the job, but because I just can't listen to idiots or take orders from anyone....So far, I have never had a degree and haven't missed it....
Yet!!!!
I find myself in uni (I'm in my late 30's) simply because I love the subject matter I have discovered and its' "fun"....So here I am, not needing a degree to survive (I already do that very well, and comfortably) but getting one for love of the subject....This is the best way to go in my opinion....

Never discount the possibility of being your own boss and working for yourself. It's very rewarding, has many more advantages than disadvantages and the freedom that it offers is just the tip of the cake...it's a great way to live if you can possibly swing it.

Best wishes to you in your own endeavors...let us know how it all turns out will you?? Would be interested to know...

jetsonx

no, not with the level of cronyism that goes on in this country.

Right_Side

In my opinion, in the current environment to work in the private sector (not trades obviously!), a degree from a university is required with minimum 2:1 or first. A masters degree should also be obtained to give the extra edge.

Then it's all experience, experience, experience.

Note: University= TCD, DCU, UCD, UCC, NUI Galway or NUI Maynooth. But to be honest international employers would be most impressed with TCD.

Lafortezza

Do you need a college degree to do a good job? No

Do you often need a college degree to get a decent job (or even an interview)? Yes.

nesf

Right_Side wrote:

Note: University= TCD, DCU, UCD, UCC, NUI Galway or NUI Maynooth. But to be honest international employers would be most impressed with TCD.

The college that is most impressive is dependent on the department within it. Different colleges are noted for "being good" at producing graduates of certain disciplines. The whole TCD thing is a myth. It's a good college, but any of the other NUIs are comparable for many things, better at some and worse at others. There is no one "better" college in this country tbh. Each have their own strenghts and weaknesses.

Especially at post grad level.

nesf

A college degree is not essential for life.

You can live without one, and work without one. Some industries don't rank academic qualifications highly versus experience.

But, for some industries, a primary degree is minimum.

You oculd say you're restricted by not having a degree, but you are also restricted by having one. Having an Arts degree won't get you into Engineering etc.

It does definitely help to have a few letters after you name in most industries. You also need experience though, that's something graduates tend to forget.

Right_Side

lafortezza wrote:

Do you need a college degree to do a good job? No

Do you often need a college degree to get a decent job (or even an interview)? Yes.

Agree on point number 2, 100%.

Jobs like: Doctor, Denist, Physio, Engineer, Economist, Microbiologist etc. ... college degree is essential. Wouldn't fancy getting my teeth done by Joe Bloggs off the street.

Right_Side

nesf wrote:

The college that is most impressive is dependent on the department within it. Different colleges are noted for "being good" at producing graduates of certain disciplines. The whole TCD thing is a myth. It's a good college, but any of the other NUIs are comparable for many things, better at some and worse at others. There is no one "better" college in this country tbh. Each have their own strenghts and weaknesses.

Especially at post grad level.

I agree with you.

But lets be honest, two grads go to America and present their degrees. Both did biology, for example, and both got a 2:1, equal levels of experience etc. One has a degree from Trinity and one has a degree from NUI Maynooth. Who gets the job? The cold truth is the Trinity grad 99 times out of 100.

Same as two guys coming to work in Ireland with the same qualifications again. One went to Oxford and the other went to Bristol. For all I know Bristol could have an amazing biology department but you take it for granted that Oxford does.

nesf

Right_Side wrote:

I agree with you.

But lets be honest, two grads go to America and present their degrees. Both did biology, for example, and both got a 2:1, equal levels of experience etc. One has a degree from Trinity and one has a degree from NUI Maynooth. Who gets the job? The cold truth is the Trinity grad 99 times out of 100.

Same as two guys coming to work in Ireland with the same qualifications again. One went to Oxford and the other went to Bristol. For all I know Bristol could have an amazing biology department but you take it for granted that Oxford does.

It doesn't really work like that for a lot of industries. Yes if the company hiring you has no idea of the college system over here perhaps but not if the company hiring knows the industry and it's graduates well.

Speaking from experience in this, most industries know better than to assume TCD grads are better. It's not the Oxford of Ireland

Flukey

Well it is better to have than not. I studied for one at night a few years back. It hasn't made a lot of difference to my career in truth, but I am glad to have it nevertheless. It is a requirement for lots of things. So if you can do a degree, then by all means do so.

0utshined

Is it essential?

No, but it can help. It is a way in to certain jobs and can show employers you can stick with something to the end. Even if you don't use the skills directly you should be able to apply them to different situations like researching a topic, analysing it and working through to a solution.

jimmycrackcorm

I'm always amazed by how many people work in IT that have a non-IT degree. Many with degrees that only have loose or non-existent connection with their actual work. I can only conclude that they could do the job without having done the degree.

A only degree is useful to get into the workplace - it's all learning on the job after that. If you have Talent, Ambition and a lucky break getting into a company then you will go far.

IceHawk

Right_Side wrote:

Note: University= TCD, DCU, UCD, UCC, NUI Galway or NUI Maynooth.

What about UL?
Not good enough for you? :mad:

Anyway, to the OP, I think a degree nowadays is about the same level as the LC would have been about 10-15 years ago, in that about the same proportion of the population are now doing Degrees as would have been finishing secondary school previously. I don't think a degree is essential in getting a job, but if you're competing for a position with someone with a relevant degree, you'd better have some good experience to give you an edge.
I know that in engineering, what qualifications you hve determine where in a pay structure you start in a company, and it can limit your promotion possibilities if you don't focus on improving yourself while working.

JungleBunny

I am still not sure whether or not my 5 years in college did me any good.
I was never asked to prove that I went to college or even sat my exams in any interview and nobody mentioned it since. (kinda like the leaving cert that nobody now cares about)
I work in IT/Software and most people I work with either did not go to college or studied something completely different. How they got this job I still have no idea and it does pi$$ me off when I think that I slaved 5 years in college, only to get the same job and money as somebody who just did nothing.
I think at this stage all that counts is who you know and how much experience you have.
Since Ireland has the highest percentage of school leavers going to college (worldwide I think), a college dgree is nothing spectacular in Ireland anymore.

Right_Side

IceHawk wrote:

What about UL?
Not good enough for you? :mad:

Apologies.

0utshined

Right_Side wrote:

In my opinion, in the current environment to work in the private sector (not trades obviously!), a degree from a university is required with minimum 2:1 or first. A masters degree should also be obtained to give the extra edge.

Then it's all experience, experience, experience.

Note: University= TCD, DCU, UCD, UCC, NUI Galway or NUI Maynooth. But to be honest international employers would be most impressed with TCD.

I'm curious Right_Side. What makes you think that an employer will care that you went to one of the Universities you've mentioned rather than an IT?

comad

I'd rather have a degree than not have one.

Now that I have two IT degrees, I'd say that they are very important for getting a start in IT unless u know someone who'll get you a job. Once you're in the job, hardwork, talent, fair ,determination etc count for more.

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

true about the universities and their relative merits. Within Ireland employers know exactly which courses are best within universities, they don't choose a particular university as being best overall. Although, obviously it will help if the person interviewing you and making a decision on hiring you went to the same uni as you. There is, however, an important issue regarding the 'winning effect'. TCD consistently gets more postgrad scholarships than any other uni - presumably this is because better students are attracted to what they feel is a better college - this then makes the college better as a result.

College is good from a social development point of view; however it does seem to be of relatively limited use outside of the sciences/engineering/health faculties. Obviously, with some exceptions in the arts areas. The key benefit of any degree imho (and as noted in a previous post) is that it helps get you considered for an interview, rather than its use in helping you do your job.

BigEejit

I had a boss who absolutely refused to hire people with masters degrees and other post grad qualifications ... in his estimation they were layabouts who didnt have the balls to go out into the workplace .........

For myself, nothing I learned in college was ever used again, waste of time ... did it get me my first job / foot on the ladder ... I dont think so, it may have had a bearing on me getting an interview .. I was never asked to show proof of what I had done, as long as I could pick up the job/do the job then everyone is happy

ADUB?

A degree is needed in nearly all professions now.
The days of walking in and out of jobs without the necessary qualifications are gone.

Experience cant be thought but you still need that bit of paper, look whats happened in world of teaching as a guidline, teachers working for years now going back and getting their HDips cos they dindt have them and would be out of a job

While a degree doesnt teach you how to do a job on practical sense, it gives you underlying theories and background that helps you on day to day basis. So thats why they are needed

On the TCD, UCD, DCU, UL, MAYNOOTH, IT blah blah front.
Having ACTUALLY attended and graduated from DIT, TCD and DCU at various levels
I can comment more readily, then the person that felt in someway qualified to roast or brag about a certain place over another.
UNI's are all pretty much the same very little difference in the quality of graduate. If a student doesnt want to work then he/she will be sh*T no matter where you attend.

The only way attending a certain UNI might help is if the interviewer identifies with you down to the fact that you've attended there also.

ADUB?

BigEejit wrote:

I had a boss who absolutely refused to hire people with masters degrees and other post grad qualifications ... in his estimation they were layabouts who didnt have the balls to go out into the workplace .........

Did your boss have any qualifications himself? I take it he didnt have a masters/post grad. Are you sure was it not the case of green-eyed monster?

Did your boss, not realise that quite a few master/post grad students work full time and do post grad's part time/ evening.

Would that not qualify your boss as much more of a layabout then?

BigEejit

ADUB? wrote:

A degree is needed in nearly all professions now.
The days of walking in and out of jobs without the necessary qualifications are gone.

Experience cant be thought but you still need that bit of paper, look whats happened in world of teaching as a guidline, teachers working for years now going back and getting their HDips cos they dindt have them and would be out of a job

While a degree doesnt teach you how to do a job on practical sense, it gives you underlying theories and background that helps you on day to day basis. So thats why they are needed

I think the need for the bit of paper is mostly only in heavily unionised jobs (used for pay scales etc) ... the job I am doing now is very technical but there are several of my colleagues that have no technical qualification, and my employer didnt even ask, as long as they could pick up the skills and do it effectively everyone is happy ....

BigEejit

ADUB? wrote:

Did your boss have any qualifications himself? I take it he didnt have a masters/post grad. Are you sure was it not the case of green-eyed monster?

Did your boss, not realise that quite a few master/post grad students work full time and do post grad's part time/ evening.

Would that not qualify your boss as much more of a layabout then?

He had an electronics degree from UL and went working for an employer for a while before striking out on his own .... i think he made his decisions regarding post grad people while he was in college, and to be fair I have seen a lot of complete wasters stay on to do the masters because they liked the college life a lot rather than any desire to be heavily qualified ...

ADUB?

So BigEejit

In answer to my question
NO your boss did NOT have a Masters/post grad qualification. I question his ability to have opinion on something he knows, at best, very little about.

Labelling people that are further educating themselves
('complete wasters stay on to do the masters because they liked the college life a lot rather than any desire to be heavily qualified')
is a bit rich, how do you know their motivation??? Can you read minds??

Nobody said you cant do the job if you dont have a degree, we'd all be able to train someone else to do our job degree or not! But a degree isnt going to hamper you, in fact it brings positives to the table, at very least it shows your ability and want to learn.

People often get promoted within companies without the qualification but getting a first job or job in another company without degree etc willl be much harder than if you had one.

On that front I think you are the exception to the rule in regard to jobs with degree etc, Hopefully you dont go for a job someday and come across a candiate looking for the same job as you, and they have their 'Heavily qualified' bit of paper and experience, and you have ?? just experience

Bit of a no brainer who we'd hire now isnt it?

BigEejit

hehe ... it may come to that ^ but I really doubt it ... next you are going to tell me that people doing masters are all doing it because they want the best possible qualifications? or so that they can get a job ahead of someone who only has a degree?

ADUB?

BigEejit wrote:

hehe ... it may come to that ^ but I really doubt it

Hope it all keeps fine for you! But I stand by the statement 'Heavily qualified and experienced is Better and will generally get the job over just experience.

I couldnt comment on ALL people doing Master's/post grad motivation. But I can say with high level of certainty that, a good deal of people doing these courses are there cos they want to learn and succeed. If they wanted to go on the beer they would go to a pub its easier.
Having actually done one I can assure you that its not the party you think it is, it requires alot of work and time.

While doing a Post grad/ masters wont guarentee you get ahead of degree/non degree people it wouldnt hamper you and would help.

vector

<pointless essay style post>
The terms of reference are too wide in scope.Therefore in order to present an adequate consideration herein, it is first necessary to distill the keywords. Life may be replaced with employment.

The oft-cited study of Watson et al. (1989, p55) is critical of the "degree", lambasting the parchment as over valued. However Smith & Hawkesberry's (2004, pp54-59) contemporary treatment demonstrates the empirical necessity of the "degree". Their diametrical conclusions however, were only possible after descent from academia into the private sector, and are thus subject to self interest.

In conclusion the author submits to the refuge of the academic scoundrel, and "sits on the fence".
</pointless essay style post>

OLDYELLAR

djmarkus wrote:

I would say yes, but in the ireland of today its "Not what you know, its who you know"

Totally agree!!
Looks good on a CV alright but yea basically what was said above , if ya know the right faces ya`ll go to high places or whatever that saying is.

weak infant

snaps4vector

CiaranC

dublindude wrote:

For example, my computer science degree, i could have thought it to myself in about 3 months. And none of it can be applied to the work place. A complete waste of time.

Interesting. Where did you do your degree?

I did mine in Blanchardstown IT, and find I use the stuff covered every single day. There was no end of hands-on, practical stuff.

AARRRGH

CiaranC wrote:

Interesting. Where did you do your degree?

I did mine in Blanchardstown IT, and find I use the stuff covered every single day. There was no end of hands-on, practical stuff.

DIT Kevin Street. The college for mongos

CiaranC

lol

I must have missed that in the prostectus

Nermal

dublindude wrote:

For example, my computer science degree, i could have thought it to myself in about 3 months. And none of it can be applied to the work place. A complete waste of time.

either your degree was too easy... or your job is too easy... or you're a bad coder and the people who apply what they learned get paid more than you to fix your messes

jd

BigEejit wrote:

I think the need for the bit of paper is mostly only in heavily unionised jobs (used for pay scales etc) ......

Doctors,Scientists,Engineers,Architects etc? mm

As an aside, TCD Graduates always had an advantage if they became teachers..
Teachers are paid extra if they have a masters. However, if you get a BA from TCD, you can buy an MA two years after Graduation.
The "real" masters from TCD are M.Litts,M.Phil and M.Scs.

So there ya go!

Triton

I've a friend with a Degree in Business who can't get a job at all. Everywhere just wants experience which she could of got without a degree anyway.

Ann Elk

How can she get the experience if she can't get a job at all? Surely she's more likely to be able to get the experience if she has the degree???

Gazza22

I wouldn't say a degree is essential in life. Everyone has different approaches to training and education and college life just doesn't suit everybody. It would be essential if you wanted to enter into a technical career in the areas of science ect.

You can definitely make it in life on your own without third level qualifications. A close family member of mine didn't complete his leaving cert, but now owns his own company and is making more than any college grad would make.

But imo, college is the way to go. Your better off with a third level degree.

netwhizkid

For the original poster, I’d advise get your college degree, although it is about the last thing needed to get on in life, I quit school at 15 and have made €3million and I am now looking forward to my 19th birthday and retirement. The only thing is that no matter how hard you hate it, you will always have it (if you succeed). It is hard but you’ll get there. I had to do mine the hard way without the junior cert.

Ri_Nollaig

netwhizkid wrote:

For the original poster, I’d advise get your college degree, although it is about the last thing needed to get on in life, I quit school at 15 and have made €3million and I am now looking forward to my 19th birthday and retirement. The only thing is that no matter how hard you hate it, you will always have it (if you succeed). It is hard but you’ll get there. I had to do mine the hard way without the junior cert.

u never did the junior nevermind the leaving cert? and made 3 million euro.... and when did u wake up from this dream? didnt u say something about wanting to own boards.ie before lol
ur now 18 obviously never did a degree and giving advice?

0utshined

dublindude wrote:

DIT Kevin Street. The college for mongos

Hey! Some of my best friends went to KST. As long as you don't get sucked into the black hole of the snackery you'll do alright there.

0utshined

Ri_Nollaig wrote:

u never did the junior nevermind the leaving cert? and made 3 million euro.... and when did u wake up from this dream? didnt u say something about wanting to own boards.ie before lol
ur now 18 obviously never did a degree and giving advice?

You can do the junior cert before you're 15 you know. I wouldn't outright dismiss his claims even though it seems unlikely. Anyone could make €3 million in three years, depending on timing and the decisions you make.

Ri_Nollaig

0utshined wrote:

You can do the junior cert before you're 15 you know. I wouldn't outright dismiss his claims even though it seems unlikely. Anyone could make €3 million in three years, depending on timing and the decisions you make.

yes i no u can do the junior at under 15 what difference does that make?
but seriously? ill believe this guy who cut up a 7800 to fit in a pci slot or this guy who claimed he was going out with some model he just found pics of online before i believe this guy dropped out of school at 15 and has made 3 million since?

and never heard of in any local paper or anything im sure a selfmade 18yr millionaire wud appear atleast once