What do you really think of poetry? Be honest?

simu

Do you enjoy it? Hate it? Find it inaccessible? Think it's all waffle? Other thoughts on poetry? Share them here!

grimloch

I'm maybe a bit young to properly appreciate fine poetry but I enjoy the odd verse here and there.

One thing that can put me off poetry is that I'm not a fellow who likes to beat round the bush and I like to call a spade a spade. That being said I do enjoy some of the poetry on my course.

Poetry in the form of Homer and Virgil I can't get enough of.

Nightwish

I appreciate poetry in the form of lyrics. LC English put me off a lot of stuff except for Emily Dickinson

Dades

I'll read anything - but poetry.

Can't stand it.
Even small poems at the start of a chapter in a book annoy me.

As for amateur poetry such as the type people read during wedding speeches - my kingdom for a hand grenade.

grimloch

The Atheist wrote:

As for amateur poetry such as the type people read during wedding speeches - my kingdom for a hand grenade.

My sentimens are similar, wedding poetry is one thing that shall not come into my wedding in any way, shape or foem.

simu

The Atheist wrote:

I'll read anything - but poetry.

Can't stand it.
Even small poems at the start of a chapter in a book annoy me.

Could you identify the exact features of poetry that cause such revulsion in you? I am curious! Is it the ambiguity? Or do you find that the poetry you read is sloppy/poorly-constructed/mawkish/other?

I'm curious!

Branoic

I'm indifferent to most poetry, although I don't have trouble appreciating it. I'm just not overly *interested* in appreciating it. Well - most of it. Soundings is actually one of only three books I've kept after secondary school - the other two being the two LC history books.

When I was doing my LC Emily Dickinson wasn't on my course that particular year, but I saw her poems in Soundings and thought they were much more interesting than the other poets on my course. So I bought a massive bumper book of all her 1,700+ poems. Its still the only real poetry book I own. I occassionally open it on a random page and pick a poem to read.

I also really digged Paradise Lost in the LC. That rocked.

Earthhorse

I don't really know where to start with this.

I love poetry, or have done in the past. I don't read so much of it now. But, I think, of all the art forms out there it seems to get the bummest deal from people. I can't help but wonder, when people say they hate poetry, how much of it they've read?

I think part of the problem is that first introductions go to the "greats", and if you don't like these then the impression given is that poetry isn't for you. Don't like Yeats, Shelley, Wordsworth, Keats, Shakespeare? Then obviously it's not for you. Thing is, a lot of the greats write the same way about the same things (not to say there isn't any difference in the above bunch, there is, but if one of these artist's works does not appeal to you what are the chances of something very similar solving the problem?).

There's a world of undiscovered goodness out there where people might find a voice that appeals to them. Whether it's the comic, often sardonic, verse of Nash, or the haunting lines of De La Mare it doesn't matter, but if you don't look you can't know.

Another problem it faces is the vast gulf between the rank amateur and the skilled practitioner. Nowhere is this more apparent than in poetry. We can dance to bad music, or laugh at bad acting, but the only use for bad poetry is to help light a fire.

There's more to it than that. Most readers don't put in the effort, or perhaps don't realise effort needs to be made, to enjoy poetry fully. Some poems need to be lived in before they yield their fruit.

But I've said enough about others (and enough fullstop for the moment!). Perhaps I'll elucidate on what is great about poetry in another post.

theCzar

Earthhorse wrote:

Another problem it faces is the vast gulf between the rank amateur and the skilled practitioner. Nowhere is this more apparent than in poetry. We can dance to bad music, or laugh at bad acting, but the only use for bad poetry is to help light a fire.

Good point.

Also, like most things poetry is very subjective, and its each to their own.

I like longish (no Homerian Epics please) lyrical poems, full of ryhme and not too cryptic, such as The Raven, and powerful war poems such as Charge of the Light Brigade, Dulce et Decorum Est. I'm not a fan of poems about everyday things e.g. Heaney, though he has his moments.

From the LC I liked Liz Bishop and Philip Larkin most.

the dice man

i like reading some poetry every now and again.

i think its the freest form of expression but also quite hard to get into as at first glance a lot of poems can be hard to understand. I like picking up the LC books where questions are asked about the poem. I think this helps me figure them out.

I also think poetry has taken a dive in the last 50 years because of the record. Now there’s more poetry in songs than in books. Who can argue that people like bob Dylan aren’t poets?

My favorite poet is probably Bukowski. He banged out so many of them. They’re very easy to read and most are pointless but funny. And then every now and again you’ll read one like this


a smile to remember

we had goldfish and they circled around and around
in the bowl on the table near the heavy drapes
covering the picture window and
my mother, always smiling, wanting us all
to be happy, told me, "be happy Henry!"
and she was right: it's better to be happy if you
can
but my father continued to beat her and me several times a week while
raging inside his 6-foot-two frame because he couldn't
understand what was attacking him from within.

my mother, poor fish,
wanting to be happy, beaten two or three times a
week, telling me to be happy: "Henry, smile!
why don't you ever smile?"

and then she would smile, to show me how, and it was the
saddest smile I ever saw

one day the goldfish died, all five of them,
they floated on the water, on their sides, their
eyes still open,
and when my father got home he threw them to the cat
there on the kitchen floor and we watched as my mother
smiled

Charles Bukowski

TerrorFirmer

Whilst some poetry does strike me, generally I dislike poetry intensely, I find it borely, but again, there is the odd exception that interests me.

Earthhorse

I also think poetry has taken a dive in the last 50 years because of the record. Now there’s more poetry in songs than in books.

Perhaps some poets have been pulled into songwriting but I doubt it
has really affected output. I think it's just more difficult to sort the wheaf from the chaff during the time work is produced. Poets such as Philip Levine, Philip Larkin and Bukowski would suggest to me that not much is wrong though.

Bukowski is one of the first poets I would recommend to those who hate poetry or think it is not for them.

Who can argue that people like bob Dylan aren’t poets?

I can. But I won't.

CerebralCortex

The thing that annoys me about poetry is that I never get it and that pisses me of no matter how hard I try. Also why do they find it so important to make learning Poetry manditory in LC english? It has no practicle use and I am going into my 5th year of college, unless of course you want to be a poet.

Sugarbear

I like writing poetry and then reading over my own stuff, but I can't stand other's people's unless I can relate to it, which is sad really. I don't mind reading the stuff that's interesting, but the majority of it bores me :rolleyes:

the dice man

CerebralCortex wrote:

It has no practicle use and I am going into my 5th year of college, unless of course you want to be a poet.

do plays have any practicle use if you're not going to be a playwrite? poetry is practicle, it helps you analyze things, find meaning in things that mightn't be clear at first sight.

it takes time to develop this skill and studying poetry in the LC helps develop this skill. what you're learning now can be applied to all poetry that you read.

the dice man

Earthhorse wrote:

I can. But I won't.

please do!

"Ain't it just like the night to play tricks when you're tryin' to be so quiet?
We sit here stranded, though we're all doin' our best to deny it
And Louise holds a handful of rain, temptin' you to defy it
Lights flicker from the opposite loft
In this room the heat pipes just cough
The country music station plays soft
But there's nothing, really nothing to turn off
Just Louise and her lover so entwined
And these visions of Johanna that conquer my mind"

not poetry?

ronano

I enjoy poetry but i've never got fully into it though i do want that larkin poetry book like no ones business and cos we're all going off topic and putting up poetry!

"On Discovering a Butterfly," Vladimir Nabokov:

I found it and I named it, being versed
in taxonomic Latin; thus became
godfather to an insect and its first
describer -- and I want no other fame.

Wide open on its pin (though fast asleep),
and safe from creeping relatives and rust,
in the secluded stronghold where we keep
type specimens it will transcend its dust.

Dark pictures, thrones, the stones that pilgrims kiss,
poems that take a thousand years to die
but ape the immortality of this
red label on a little butterfly.

Dades

simu wrote:

Could you identify the exact features of poetry that cause such revulsion in you? I am curious! Is it the ambiguity? Or do you find that the poetry you read is sloppy/poorly-constructed/mawkish/other?

It's not easy to put a finger on - but a few others said it simply bores them - and I think that's it.

A books to me is a means to tell a story (or provide information or opinion). Of course some writers are more lyrical than others in their description. Its when the method becomes more important than the story I switch off.

Interestingly ronano's post above mentions Nabokov. Lolita is one of my all-time favorite books - full of beautiful description and prose. But I can't bring myself to even finish that poem above. I know it's going nowhere - it's only 12 lines long. And the story in the poem has been distorted by the necessity to use clever rhyming language. Or maybe there is no story? Just pretty words arranged in a lyrical manner.

Whatever floats your boat I guess.

I loved most of the books I was made read in school - and I had to memorise the goddamn sonofabitch poetry!
(Sorry for the language - I'm finishing goddamn Catcher in the Rye )

Nimrod's Son

Poetry is, by and large, total tosh IMO. It's boring as hell.
The notable exception to this opinion is The Raven by Poe.

Earthhorse

So there's a definite trend, on this thread at least, that says most poetry is boring, which is fine by me as I find most of it boring too.

But do you also find most movies to be clichéd, most music to be vacuous, and indeed, most literature to be boring too? I know I do, but it doesn't put me off the remainder of the output which is cool, cool, cool.

Out of curiosity how much poetry have people read beyond what was fed to them in school?

(dice man, maybe we'll do the Dylan thing another time. I don't want to take this off topic and I'm not familiar with enough of his work to really make the case!).

The Lopper

Patrick Kavanagh, Spike Milligan and Roger McGough are the only ones i like really. I think a lot more lyrics to songs should be included in "poetry", in the Leaving Cert it would certainly get more people interested in it.

OfflerCrocGod

Poetry is written by people too lazy to write a book for people too lazy to read a book. The vast majority is anyway.

The Lopper

OfflerCrocGod wrote:

Poetry is written by people to lazy to write a book for people to lazy to read a book. The vast majority is anyway.

Nice.

CuLT

OfflerCrocGod wrote:

Poetry is written by people to lazy to write a book for people to lazy to read a book. The vast majority is anyway.

I'd agree, only for the fact that Shakespeare wrote more than poetry!

I rarely visit the Creative Writing forum anymore (a forum which I heartily endorsed the creation of, and actively particpated in for months), simply because of the torrents of drivelling poetry abound there.

Every thread, not even every second thread, but every single thread is another vague/rambling/angsty (all or take your pick) sorry excuse for a story.

I might be called cruel, or even arrogant, but there is a massive difference between these and anything from a critically acclaimed poet. Not all, granted, but at least you can have the feeling that there is something hiding in there to be teased out rather than a jumble of words tossed together to fit the form of poetry.

OfflerCrocGod

CuLT wrote:

I'd agree, only for the fact that Shakespeare wrote more than poetry!

Shakespeare is good for quotes and for insomnia - anything else he's bad.

CerebralCortex

the dice man wrote:

do plays have any practicle use if you're not going to be a playwrite? poetry is practicle, it helps you analyze things, find meaning in things that mightn't be clear at first sight.

it takes time to develop this skill and studying poetry in the LC helps develop this skill. what you're learning now can be applied to all poetry that you read.

Mathematics helps you analyse things and without the incoherency of hidden meaning.
Poetry is good to some people as a form of entertainment very little of it is entertaining to me but it is entertainment(for a lack of a more suitable word) none the less. Imho it should be kept as a form of entertainment. It should not I believe be used to gain you points in an education system or forcefully rammed down your throat, either that or you do poorly in your LC. Poetry can be a beautiful thing or so I'm led to believe I don't know I never really got poetry but because someone thought it was practical in the department of education I forever look on poetry with bitterness so much so that I find it hard to finish reading one.

shuushh

i enjoy the odd few lines

but i find it very difficult to sit and read a book of it

Firewalkwithme

Depends on the quality I suppose. For plenty of examples of bad poetry please do visit the Creative Writing (backslappers) forum.

Here's one I prepared earlier:

Burnt toast
Falling, Spinning
Try but can't
Nissan Almera
Sailing.....

shuushh

replace nissan almera with love fading and youd be on to a winner

Firewalkwithme

shuushh wrote:

replace nissan almera with love fading and youd be on to a winner

It's symbolisim - don't you know anything about poetry?

Talliesin

I'm only reading poetry atm. I've plenty of fiction and non-fiction to read (and some I really should read) but poetry is all I can get into right now.

tHE vAGGABOND

as father jack said about poetry, "ARSE BISCUTS"

Dades

My heart is lifted by the general consensus about poetry here.

I always wondered was I the only philistine, but now I see you well-read folk, who share a love for the written word, voicing your distain for that most annoying of all writing - poetry.

*Good God I just had a look in Creative Writing - my eyyyyeeeeees*

simu

Eh - don't judge poetry by the stuff you see in Creative Writing, I beg of you, people!

supersheep

the dice man wrote:

My favorite poet is probably Bukowski. He banged out so many of them. They’re very easy to read and most are pointless but funny. And then every now and again you’ll read one like this

a smile to remember

we had goldfish and they circled around and around
in the bowl on the table near the heavy drapes
covering the picture window and
my mother, always smiling, wanting us all
to be happy, told me, "be happy Henry!"
and she was right: it's better to be happy if you
can
but my father continued to beat her and me several times a week while
raging inside his 6-foot-two frame because he couldn't
understand what was attacking him from within.

my mother, poor fish,
wanting to be happy, beaten two or three times a
week, telling me to be happy: "Henry, smile!
why don't you ever smile?"

and then she would smile, to show me how, and it was the
saddest smile I ever saw

one day the goldfish died, all five of them,
they floated on the water, on their sides, their
eyes still open,
and when my father got home he threw them to the cat
there on the kitchen floor and we watched as my mother
smiled

Charles Bukowski

That is one of my favourite poems - it was the one I chose to read out in class last time we had to. Yes, a lot of poetry is crap - I don't like the 'greats' like Yeats, Wordsworth and the like - but there are very many gems, such as Sassoon, Bukowski, Stevie Smith... Not Waving but Drowning is anothe favourite.
In general, I love poetry - good poetry at least, poetry that appeals to me, dark, depressed stuff usually.

jazzbandit

I always just thought poems were for steamers, but I'm probably wrong. btw, apologies to any steamers reading this, as I know some of you dont do the poetry.

simu

jazzbandit wrote:

I always just thought poems were for steamers, but I'm probably wrong. btw, apologies to any steamers reading this, as I know some of you dont do the poetry.

What's a steamer?

supersheep

simu wrote:

What's a steamer?

Thta's the question that was on my mind... I think it's something regularly used to cook potatoes... Either that, or some sort of derogatory term. But I'm gonna go with the cooking utensil. Why they'd need poetry is beyond me...

CuLT

simu wrote:

What's a steamer?

Phew, thought I was alone for a minute.

Though it sounds vaguely familiar...

jazzbandit

Apologies chaps,
A steamer is, indeed, a cooking utensil, but it's also slang on the northside (knackers) for "gay" people or "homosexuals".
But like i said, I know they dont all read the poetry, so I'm not bein racist.

simu

I really don't see what a person's sexual tastes has to do with whether they like poetry or not.

Dagnir Glaurung

You don't understand it; of course it's for poofters :rolleyes:

I like poetry. Don't love it, prefer reading novels but occasionally dip into poetry.

jazzbandit

Im not sayin all "gays" like poems, nor am I sayin its exclusively their domain. I mean, every bloke has dipped into a cheeky internet site and plagiarised a poem and then told some bird you wrote it yourself. It's fair game. And can really help you get the rattle.
I'm just sayin that steamer blokes probably like poems and art more than the rest of us, who'd be watchin football or whatever.
I have absoloutely nothin against steamers though. I even have an Elton John greatest hits album.

simu

jazzbandit wrote:

Im not sayin all "gays" like poems, nor am I sayin its exclusively their domain. I mean, every bloke has dipped into a cheeky internet site and plagiarised a poem and then told some bird you wrote it yourself. It's fair game. And can really help you get the rattle.
I'm just sayin that steamer blokes probably like poems and art more than the rest of us, who'd be watchin football or whatever.
I have absoloutely nothin against steamers though. I even have an Elton John greatest hits album.

Hmm... something there for a PhD in literature, surely. o_O

nesf

I like poetry, I don't read as much of it these days as I used to.

I find it interesting that people believe the stereotypes about this kind of stuff. You'll find a book or two of poetry in the most unlikely people's collections tbh.

CuLT

That steamer race fronted by Elton John is on the move; if you want to keep your anal virginity you'd better run for the hills with your arse to the ground!

Dades

nesf wrote:

I find it interesting that people believe the stereotypes about this kind of stuff. You'll find a book or two of poetry in the most unlikely people's collections tbh.

What are the stereotypes?

Tell me you don't think people are siding with jazzbandit!

supersheep

No, jazzbandit is OBVIOUSLY right... Only gay people like poetry, and only straight people like football. I would extend the metaphor, but this is already heading off-topic as it is with talk of cooking utensils and the like, so I'ma drop it...

jazzbandit

Look, lets not get all fruity here. I'm just sayin that gay ppl like art and stuff like that, whereas straight ppl like football and, like, action movies. But, you can still like poems and not be a steamer (although, fair enough, you probably are a steamer if you like loads of poeams). It's just that you never see "gays" at football matches or paintball. I'm not saying they couldnt come if they wanted though, I'd have no problem with that.

jazzbandit

Also, I have to say I feel a bit victimised here, if that's the word.

supersheep

Oooh, can I hit him, please? For being silly?
Plenty of gay people like football and action movies. I'm straight, and I detest football - it bores me. Plenty of straight people like art and poetry - OK, not so much the art, but I do adore poetry. So stereotypes DON'T work.