OMG IBB Are that bad...

The_B_Man

ur download is 221kB/s and ur upload us 100kB/s. together they're over 300kB/s.

or if ur goin by the speeds in Azureus: 79.3 + 98.4 + 84.3 = 262kB/s
not bad for a 3megabit connection. although, my brain is gone at the moment so can someone make sure im not gettin the bits & bytes mixed up?

Mutant_Fruit

Firstly, azureus's speed counter isn't great. I was hoping you'd look at the average speed from the timer i set going in DUMeter. The problem with azureus's is that it shows the instantaenous speed, and at that particular moment i must have just lost a connection to a seed, as my download speed dipped. Average speed over 3.5 mins is 220kB/Sec. Thats why bittorrent isn't the best testing device, its too unstable.

not bad for a 3megabit connection.

Yeah, wouldn't be bad for a 3meg connection, but considaring i'm on a 2 meg connection i think its pretty damn good.

Stark

azzeretti wrote:

Unless IBB have gaurenteed this (which I don't know if they have or haven't) and have QOS in place for each connection what you say in the first instance is wrong.

I'm going on what IBB have told me. I'm on 2Mbit/s with 24:1 contention and they told me I was guaranteed a minimum speed of 128kbit/s

madrab

thats wierd, cus they usually try and fob me off with 20-ish kB is min i should get, but then they usually make up crap to tell you)

Mutant_Fruit

Exactly why I say at the end of the post that this doesn't apply to all instances. If you are on a 2MB line with 8:1 contention then there are times (a lot of times) when your speed will be around the 340k mark

If an ISP advertises a 2meg service, what they mean is that you should generally be able to get the full 2 megs, but during peak hours you may not be able to. Contention covers them for this, and thats perfectly acceptable. We're not paying enough for dedicated bandwidth.

An isp that offers a 2meg connection that more often than not maxes out at less than 1/5 of this could possibly be sued for false advertising. Simply because they do not supply a service that can regularly obtain the advertised speeds. Therefore the advertisement is misleading. They should advertise it as a 400kbps service, with a peak transfer rate of 2meg, which is quite a bit different from advertising a 2meg service.

Take a look at NTL, and any of the ADSL providers. Generally all their users can reach their maximum speeds (maximum speed depends on distance from exchange for ADSL) at any time in the day. Ok, the have the occasional glitch at times, but overall 95% of users seem to be happy and get full speeds. There is no reason why IBB can't offer a similar experience.

In short, if IBB can't offer you a 2meg service and fob you off with a "20kB/sec is well within the limits of the connection", try threatening them with a lawsuit for false advertising. I'm not sure if it'd pass in a court or not, but its worth a shot.

todd10k

robroy wrote:

*snip*

3MegaBits would give 375KiloBYTES per second and as this would not actually be achieved in practise, due to various packet overheads etc., 350 KBytes would be a good performance for a 3Mb connection.
*snip*

yep. sounds about right.

currently on 3meg irish BB breeze. i could show you some nice screenshots of my line downloading at well below minimum contractual obligations, high latency, packet loss, etc. (its 128kilobits aka 12.8 kilobytes or something close, by the way. get it right. ) my connection dropped below this, meaning they failed in their end of the bargain to guarantee me my service, meaning they are in breach of contract with me, and i can terminate my contract at any time.

just waiting for smart....come to blanch. plllleeeaaasssseee.

robroy

todd10k wrote:

(its 128kilobits aka 12.8 kilobytes or something close, by the way. get it right. )

128 x 1024 = 131,072 bits ( to keep out of hex )
div 8 = 8192
div 8 = 16 kBytes

Dividing Line speed kilobite by 10 is a very rough and gererous rule of thumb used to make some allowance for overheads in transmission data that must be sent in addition to the actual data the client wants to send or receive.
Dividing by 8 is the accurate conversion, dividing by 10 is easier and is often quoted by ISPs as it errs in their favour.

Blaster99

Mutant_Fruit wrote:

There is no reason why IBB can't offer a similar experience.

What's the performance like in your neck of the woods these days?

todd10k

robroy wrote:

Stuff.

aye, i know. but....thats why i said "or something close"

besides even by my scale theyre still looking at breach of contract.

really wish they'd die painful, searing, needle stabbing, donkey riding, flesh rippingly good deaths. the lot of them.

....bet i could run a better network...

*goes off to sob in the corner*

Adey2002

I got rid of IBB and am now with icecomms.net

http://www.onspeed.com/en/speed_test.php ===> 1673kb/sec
ftp.esat.net/mirrors/.0/ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ls-lR.gz ===> 232KB/sec 11.2Mb in 49 seconds

Pinging www.jolt.co.uk - Minimum = 15ms, Maximum = 48ms, Average = 23ms

Pinging www.boards.ie - Minimum = 43ms, Maximum = 52ms, Average = 46ms

nadir

Im on the 2 Meg service, ket me just put some things straight
* when it works properly it is full duplex , 200+ each way (regardless of what they say)
* it usually goes at about a tenth of this 20 each way

In regards your pint example, it simply doesn't stand up. The technical details e.g contention rate, are there and anyone expecting to get 3MB down when testing is just setting their expectations too high. I don't blame IBB for this, simply the end user.

the Pint example is perfect, all we are saying is that, they are advertising something they are not delivering on.

Congestion // Contention is a moot point.
the internet server provider should do their statistics, such that when we want to download the service should be available to us.
If I were getting 100 up and down, I still would not be happy, it is not what we have been told we are supposed to get. Granted some slowdown during peak hours would be acceptable, but not speeds like we are getting.
If they cant handle the load, they shouldnt advertise it.
It's pissing me off, because I have been unable to contact them by phone for the last month, they just wont pick up.
From previous encounters, I know that they also dont read their e-mail.

One interesting trend I found, everyone seems to get a good service at the start, and then get shafted after a couple of months. I wonder if this is their policy. I havnt done any proper tests since the QOS days.
Maybe I will run some more tests soon.
I have ntop and mrtg setup at home, some packet sniffers, and some netcat scripts, I remember changing ip's also seemed to improve performance, they seem to have changed some stuff on their network over the last month, I'll check into it.

Mutant_Fruit

Blaster99 wrote:

What's the performance like in your neck of the woods these days?

I've stopped playing FPS online. I got bored of CS after 3 years So i don't reallly keep an eye on pings like i used to.

As far as i can tell, theres a good bit of ping spiking in the tallaght highsite (its noticeable in World of Warcraft, but thankfully NOT a game ending experience like it would be in CS). Theres also a rediculous amount of packetloss, not in the tallaght highsite itself, but in whatever router they have 3 hops down. I've emailed about it, and i'm going to ring and complain about it. Packetloss in the internal network is by far the most unforgiveable mistake an ISP can make, whatever about not having enough external bandwidth, losing packets in your own circuit is just idiocy.

Other than that, the download performance is generally quite good (as can be seen from my screenshot). I can max out 99/100 times easily enough on any download. I just wish they'd fix that damn packetloss. The ping spikes and packetloss are probably related.

EDIT:
This is what the incoming traceroute is like to the tallaght tower:
1 56 ms 54 ms 57 ms **************************
2 54 ms 56 ms 58 ms rt001kil.netsource.ie [212.17.32.101]
3 60 ms 77 ms 70 ms 193.1.208.197
4 56 ms 60 ms 62 ms dn42-ae0-50-ibis-access.irishbroadband.ie [62.231.52.158]
5 55 ms 55 ms 56 ms dn03-fe-1-3-1-150-tallaght.irishbroadband.ie [62.231.38.65]
NO packetloss at all on this side of the journey.

If anyone can access their IBB connected PC, can they do a traceroute to anywhere (preferably a netsource address) and just compare the route outgoing packets take to the one incoming packets take?

Mutant_Fruit

Rightio, seems like connections coming INTO the tallaght tower use 62.231.52.158. That router is grand, its perfect! Not a problem with it.

However, outgoing connections from the tallaght tower go through 62.231.52.157. This router is a pile of ****. I'm going to ring them up now and bitch about it. Its currently giving 12% packet loss.

If anyone on any other ISP could do a continuous tracert (using PingPlotter) or continuous ping to 62.231.38.65 to verify that incoming connections are NOT experiencing packetloss right now, that'd be great.

Red Alert

I'm on 3Rock and today it just disappeared. I was at work and couldn't access my server back home from there. A whole day with no service! WTF are they thinking? I'm now barely crawling along. Are their technical (lack of) 'support' open tomorrow?

LegacyUser

Adey2002 wrote:

I got rid of IBB and am now with icecomms.net

Pinging www.boards.ie - Minimum = 43ms, Maximum = 52ms, Average = 46ms

OMG, you moved. I get better ping to boards.ie on IBB than you do with your new provider-

Reply from 82.195.136.36: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=56
Reply from 82.195.136.36: bytes=32 time=13ms TTL=56
Reply from 82.195.136.36: bytes=32 time=17ms TTL=56
Reply from 82.195.136.36: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=56

Ping statistics for 82.195.136.36:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 13ms, Maximum = 17ms, Average = 14ms

And I am NOT trolling - I seriously ALWAYS get a good connection from IBB.
It has to be something to do with the mast.

I am on IBB 2MB Breeze Lite on the Ballycoolin mast.

zuma

AFAIK icecomms.net is not part of INEX and connects through somewhere in the UK so his UK pings are in the teeens!!!

Gopher971

Ok this has gone beyond a joke....

On odlums DN19 but situated in Drumcondra and my connection is atrocious .

Pinging boards.ie from my router

PING boards.ie (82.195.136.36): 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 82.195.136.36: icmp_seq=0 ttl=57 time=1675.3 ms
64 bytes from 82.195.136.36: icmp_seq=1 ttl=57 time=1964.1 ms
64 bytes from 82.195.136.36: icmp_seq=2 ttl=57 time=2131.4 ms
64 bytes from 82.195.136.36: icmp_seq=3 ttl=57 time=1975.5 ms
64 bytes from 82.195.136.36: icmp_seq=5 ttl=57 time=1993.6 ms
64 bytes from 82.195.136.36: icmp_seq=7 ttl=57 time=1404.4 ms
64 bytes from 82.195.136.36: icmp_seq=9 ttl=57 time=2292.4 ms
--- boards.ie ping statistics ---
10 packets transmitted, 7 packets received, 30% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max = 1404.4/1919.5/2292.4 ms

Yup folks, thats an average round trip time of 1919.5..... and 30% packet loss.

Tracert isn't much better....

traceroute to boards.ie (82.195.136.36), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
1 DN19-odlums-lo0.irishbroadband.ie (83.141.66.129) 2106.201 ms 1757.476 ms 1908.955 ms
2 DN05-fe-1-3-1-13-esb.irishbroadband.ie (62.231.52.105) 1976.098 ms 2264.007 ms 2254.438 ms
3 DN04-as1-0-guinness.irishbroadband.ie (83.141.117.1) 2145.288 ms 2566.567 ms 1868.103 ms
4 DN42-as0-0-ibis-access.irishbroadband.ie (62.231.52.153) 2314.807 ms 2098.455 ms 1901.726 ms
5 62.231.52.157 (62.231.52.157) 2069.203 ms 2338.547 ms 3454.992 ms
6 * suez-inex.hosting365.ie (193.242.111.23) 1553.491 ms 2302.904 ms
7 * 6.150.reserved.hosting365.ie (82.195.150.6) 1681.404 ms 1551.054 ms
8 boards.ie (82.195.136.36) 1502.488 ms 1578.162 ms 2033.708 ms
Trace complete



I think i'll switch to dialup...*Sheesh*

Mutant_Fruit

Same in tallaght at the moment. Even WoW is suffering badly. I'm getting 27% packetloss at the moment, down from 43% earlier.

Can we all bitch at em (again) tomorrow. I'm planning on spending my lunchbreak on the phone to em.

LegacyUser

Jeeez!! That is bad! I have to say I must be lucky then. I am going via Ballycoolin and its grand.


2 5 ms 10 ms 11 ms DN40-fe-0-0-1-150-ballycoolin.irishbroadband.ie
62.231.38.241]
3 13 ms 20 ms 17 ms 83.141.117.18
4 10 ms 17 ms 10 ms DN04-fe-1-3-0-352-guinness.irishbroadband.ie [83
141.117.17]
5 8 ms 11 ms 10 ms DN42-as0-0-ibis-access.irishbroadband.ie [62.231
52.153]
6 13 ms 15 ms 11 ms 83.141.117.45
7 27 ms 13 ms 22 ms suez-inex.hosting365.ie [193.242.111.23]
8 66 ms 14 ms 13 ms corerouter1.hosting365.ie [82.195.128.7]
9 15 ms 12 ms 12 ms boards.ie [82.195.136.36]

Tony

Mutant_Fruit wrote:

Same in tallaght at the moment. Even WoW is suffering badly. I'm getting 27% packetloss at the moment, down from 43% earlier.

Can we all bitch at em (again) tomorrow. I'm planning on spending my lunchbreak on the phone to em.

Yep I'm in Tallaght also and last few days have been dial up speed

Clover

Mutant_Fruit wrote:

Can we all bitch at em (again) tomorrow. I'm planning on spending my lunchbreak on the phone to em.

i voted with my feet on friday as i got sick of bitching over the phone to them about the service .

Adey2002

bubby wrote:

OMG, you moved. I get better ping to boards.ie on IBB than you do with your new provider-

Yeah, but i get max 20ms to www.jolt.co.uk and a full, constant and reliablle 2Mb all day, every day.