8 is nuts, but 9?

Doctor J

Does this look insanely awkward to anyone else?

Have a look at this feckin thing :eek:


This is when he's not playing his two Ernie Ball John Petrucci models

bombidol

thats just ****ing stupid in fairness. 7 is one thing. 8 is dumb, 9 is dumber. gimmicks

BeardyGit

Jaysus....I have a hard enough time getting to grips with a 6 at times....

Shanannigan

its for stupid ppl so they can tune it to open and play a whole album of noise(not music) with one finger.. actually they probably come ready tuned to open

Karl Hungus

You're just jealous you've not got one. And two Petrucci models.

I know that fellow anyway. That beast of his is tuned F# - A, and he can do some pretty insane stuff on it altogether.

And in fairness bombidol, extended range is not dumb, or a gimmick.

Quattroste

sure does look fugly!

-=al=-

Quattroste wrote:

sure does look fugly!

its not just fugly ugly, its ugly ugly! ...the worst kind of ugly

Mr. CooL ICE

"The Thing That Should Not Be"

Kennington

Now this is just silly:

Doctor J

The Cheap Trick guitar... indulgence indeed

daram

bombidol wrote:

thats just ****ing stupid in fairness. 7 is one thing. 8 is dumb, 9 is dumber. gimmicks

I agree completely. Kinda pretentious too.

Doctor J

daram wrote:

Kinda pretentious too.

How so? If he has the need for 9 strings, what is pretentious about that?

Quattroste

YEAH Daram

Those Harp player are pretty pretentious too eh!

daram

I dunno. I cant see why someone would need nine strings. Not in a guitar anyway, maybe give it a different name. A whole new instrument like.

I think a lot of people get and play these instruments just for the sake of being different, like they think people will be impressed because of more strings. That’s the pretentious part.

That all said, it seems like an instrument (not the harp, the guitar) which would be used primarily for metal. Which I'm not into at all, so maybe that is clouding my judgement.

Although, a metal-harp.....

Doctor J

Other than metal and jazz, extended range instruments haven't really taken off. I could never see myself playing that 9 string (or even an 8 for that matter) but I have a begrudging respect for those who do. Somebody has to push the boundaries

daram

They havent taken off for a reason. The extra strings would just get in my way. Most of the time you just need the standard EADGBE, what would the extra strings be doing for those times? Can you mute them?

I can see all the reasons for having extended range, but I still dont think it's worth buying one. You can put a 6string into open tuning too no?

Also, i could be wrong, but when you start adding extra strings you have to start angling the frets no? That would annoy me to no end...

Doctor J

daram wrote:

Also, i could be wrong, but when you start adding extra strings you have to start angling the frets no?

No, not within reason. Generally a longer scale suits lower tuning but you could easily say the same about a guitar in standard tuning (indeed there are plenty of fanned fret 6 strings out there). Personally I think extended range is something there to be explored. Why restrict yourself to standards set hundreds of years ago? Has music not evolved? 5 string basses are increasingly common for a reason. Extended range allows you to play new chords and do something different. Evolution and progression!!!

daram

But I dont feel restricted. There's plenty of things I cant do on a 6string yet? Why complicate matters. That said, I'm only playing guitar 6 years. Maybe someone playing longer would feel they've peaked with six and need more. But I've been playing the piano for 17years (and im only 21), and I dont feel the necessity for a 89key...

Doctor J

But there you go, you've got an 88 key piano, if you learned on a 64 key piano you might think 88 keys was ridiculous, that you hadn't peaked on 64 keys

feylya

Why use a 6 string? Why not use a 4 string?

daram

feylya wrote:

Why use a 6 string? Why not use a 4 string?

Excactly what I was about to say...

feylya

For that matter, why use 4 strings? Why not just use 1?

This was aimed at you daram. Why use 6 strings?

daram

Personally, I use six because its what I learned on. But now you're making me think about it. I'm having a 'if a tree falls in the woods' moment.

Damn you.

feylya

Yeah, you learned on a 6 string so you assume that's the norm. Why not just use a 4 string then? Simple because you can't get the same chords from a 4 string as you can from a 6 string. Same with a 7, 8 or 9 string. It just opens up far more possibilities for your playing.

daram

Okay, fair point. But...

Hold on,

But,

Dammit

feylya

I win!

feylya 1 daram 0

daram

What about Dr J, I think you'll have to share that point.

daram

Anyway, jokes on you ultimately...

feylya

Say, weren't you just unbanned? On parole so to speak?

daram

I was yeah? Have I broken a rule again?

I always finish an argument with 'jokes on you ultimately' if I lose. Not a personal attack

feylya

Fair enough. Just make sure you behave yourself!

daram

Dude...

Karl Hungus

Extended range really does interest me.

I also find it ironic that while bassists have embraced extended range, guitarists are so xenophobic when it comes to a lead instrument that has more range! A lead instrument that has more range! You'd think guitarists would be head over heels to embrace that, wouldn't you?

Here's a TWELVE string bass:



Yeah, that is twelve. 12. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 strings! That's THRICE the strings an ordinary bass would have. Yet guitarists are getting stuck up and ignorant over an extra 2 or 3 strings on a guitar? It just doesn't make sense at all...

It seems like the same people who marvel over Jean Baudin playing Bach on his 9 string bass are the very ones who think that extended range on guitars is stupid, or a gimmick, or pretentious or just to be "Different!"?
...no sense whatsoever...

feylya

Don't make me dig out the 15 string bass...

Doctor J

Personally, while I have a 6 string bass and 7 string guitar, I'm not entirely sold on more than that but I doff my cap in the direction of those who are and who can master it. It's far beyond what I'm capable of. Respect.

Karl Hungus

Please do!

feylya

Karl Hungus wrote:

Please do!

Later

Karl Hungus

Doctor J wrote:

Personally, while I have a 6 string bass and 7 string guitar, I'm not entirely sold on more than that but I doff my cap in the direction of those who are and who can master it. It's far beyond what I'm capable of. Respect.

Aye, I agree. Muchos respetcos! Since I've gotten into the world of 7 strings, I think that's enough for me now, but I'd never poo-poo the idea of more strings, nor would I turn up my nose at the chance go play on something that has 8 or 9 strings.

Doctor J

I'd love a go of that 12, just to see what a 17Hz bass note feels like to play

Karl Hungus

Doctor J wrote:

I'd love a go of that 12, just to see what a 17Hz bass note feels like to play

Pants ****ting I'd imagine! Although I'm not sure what note 17Hz is, can you enlighten me on just how many string lower than a normal bass is, because I've no idea how that 12 string is tuned myself.

daram

Karl Hungus wrote:

That's THRICE the strings an ordinary bass would have.

But why? Why would you want that? Is there a hole in your personality you are trying to fill? What is it about 6string guitars and 4string basses doesnt satisfy your needs and leaves you wanting more? Off the bat, it would appear to me that the more you extend the range of an instrument, the less versatile it becomes. I'm not saying that I turn my nose up at them, I'm sure people can play very impressive things on them, but, my point is that people can play very impressive things on standard instruments too.

Dammit, I just restarted the same argument I just lost. Why do I do these things...

Doctor J

Why not? Would you ask a painter why he uses 20 colours when he could get away with 4?

daram

If it was a painting which only used 4 colours then yes.

Also, 17Hz is below the frequency range of the human ear I think (correct me if I'm wrong), so I dont think it would matter what note it is? It would just be shaking...

feylya

Exactly! Shake the pints off the tables!

Doctor J

Karl Hungus wrote:

Pants ****ting I'd imagine! Although I'm not sure what note 17Hz is, can you enlighten me on just how many string lower than a normal bass is, because I've no idea how that 12 string is tuned myself.

I think it's the C# below the B on a 5 string, so almost an octave lower again. Bear in mind that human hearing starts at about 20Hz (with good hearing) so you wouldn't even hear the fundamental, just harmonics. You'd feel the fundamental alright, provided you had some serious custom cabs capable of it

feylya

Let's face it, you'd get the brown note from it anyway

daram

Here, I'm gonna be honest. I've never played something with more than the standard set of strings. So before I make anymore judgements I'll find one in a music shop somewhere (or someone lend me one), and I'll see if I find them more interesting in the flesh.

Now, off to find a 7stringer made of flesh...

Doctor J

Found it - Garry Goodman (the guy who owns the bass) explains:

Can you tell us about the tonal range of the strings? And of course, where on earth do you get strings for these monsters?!

This is the fun part! The lowest string is C#00 (17 Hz). This string was conceived and actualised by Chicago-based bassist, Jauqo III-X. When he told me about the string, I was hopeful. I had questions about whether or not it would be functional and audible. It is both.

So the tuning of the bass is low C#, F#, B, E, A, D, G, C, F, Bb, Eb (half-step below the regular guitar high E string). Jauqo had the string made at S.I.T. As I understand it, they were very open-minded about making this string. I prefer a .009 for the Bb string and a .007 for the Eb string, which I get from Bowan Brothers Guitars here in California. For the 7-string, 9-string and the .20 F string on the 11-string, I use GHS Bassboomers.

Do you need any special speaker configuration to cover this tremendous range, for example, subwoofers, complex crossovers, bass and guitar or keyboard amplification?

This is a never-ending process for me. I performed at the recent NAMM show with the Adler 11-string bass. I went over to the Basson booth and showed the bass to Victor Basson. He plugged me into a Basson 4 x 10 cabinet with a switchable Piezo horn. The speakers have 200 oz. magnets.

I believe the specs for the low end of the speakers are 27 Hz. I was amazed at how clear and big a sound I got through those speakers when I played the low F# and C# strings. The gauge of the low C# string is a .185 and the combination of that string, Mike Adler’s bass, and the Villex pickups going through the Basson 4 x 10 was incredible! I haven’t put the final configuration of amps and speakers together, as of yet.

On most of my basses, I’ve added an onboard 18-volt pre-amp and parametric EQ made by Jim Williams of Audio Upgrades. Jim’s pre-amp has a 20-db boost/cut with a sweepable EQ from 20 Hz to 20 K. On my Tobias 7-string, my Fender Bass VI and even on my Hofner Beatle Bass, I’ve had Jim install his pre-amps that allow a strong output from the bass and that balances the levels of the strings.

On the 11-string, the Villex pickups are very sensitive and Mike Adler has added a 9-volt pre-amp that boosts and cuts bass, mids and highs. William Villex makes some incredible pickups.

What’s next is that my concept for bass guitars or fretted string instruments tuned in fourths encompasses having as many notes as physics will permit in order get as close to the range of a grand piano as possible. It is not a question of having 7, 8, 9, 10 or 11 strings, but rather a question of how they are utilized. Therefore, the limit is based on the laws of physics.

Getting strings made that previously did not exist, such as Jauqo’s low C# string, is one of the main concerns in building a master fretboard instrument. Playability is also a concern. As you can see with the 11-string, how much wider can a fretboard get and still be playable? I have already altered the way I play on the 11-string in order to maximize its playability. I probably won’t rest until I can play septitone progression #921 from 'Slonimsky’s Thesaurus of Scales and Melodic Patterns' on a fretted string instrument. This is the equal division of 7 octaves into 6 parts.

My thinking, in having a 7-string bass built, was to have a member of the bass guitar family that would be used and played in a different way. It wasn’t a question of adding one more string to a 6-string bass, but rather of having 4 1/2 octaves in which to express Percussive Harmonics.

I feel instrumental music has the power to communicate on a more abstract and emotional level that transcends lyrics. I have been told by a number of people who have listened to the very same tracks as you, that this music has a powerful and uplifting effect on them. I developed Percussive Harmonics so I would have an original vehicle to perform compositions that can influence and transform the listener into another realm or frame of mind. So the technique is subservient to the thought or emotion that it evokes. My goal is to continue the evolution of the bass guitar and how it is used to its fullest potential.

Karl Hungus

daram wrote:

But why? Why would you want that?

But I never said I'd want that. In fact, I said 7 was enough for me, and when it comes to bass, 6 would be grand.

daram wrote:

Is there a hole in your personality you are trying to fill?

*Boggle*

Yeah, an extra string fills in personality.

daram

I didnt mean you personally. I meant the general 'you', as in, people who buy these things.

Doctor J

Garry Goodman explains his motivation pretty clearly, don't you think? Personally, I find it quite refreshing that someone is restricted by the capablilty of their instrument, rather than the instrument being restricted by the player