Protein/weight Gain Formula

Lotsofwords

Ok so I'm no Nutritionist but i did the maths and most Protein/weight Gain Formula supply between 25-30g of protein, but i figure that if you drink half a litre of milk and eat an egg u'll get 25-30g of protein that way too. which then do people is more affective at gaining muscle? and how much protein should one be consuming in order to gain muscle in the first place?

Cravez

Well i dont use any protein powder or weight gain formula at all but i think protein/weight gain formulae is supplemented into your meals, you dont just take protein/weight gain formulae and thats it, it must be incorperated into your daily intake of other foods also.

As you said: Half a litre + an egg= 30g's of protein, add that with a protein /weight gain formulae will give you 60g of protein altogether.

To really put on muscle one must consume 1g of protein per pound of bodyweight i.e if you weigh 180 pounds take 180g's of protein.

Easygainer

A good weightgainer will have lots of carbs, not much sugar, if it has fats they should be MCT or flaxseed based and protein. Personally, I think protein saturation is the best way to gain lean body mass; it works for me and it works for others, but if you're ultra skinny it's very convenient to get in the excess carbs you'd need this way.

tribulus

Lotsofwords wrote:

Ok so I'm no Nutritionist but i did the maths and most Protein/weight Gain Formula supply between 25-30g of protein, but i figure that if you drink half a litre of milk and eat an egg u'll get 25-30g of protein that way too. which then do people is more affective at gaining muscle? and how much protein should one be consuming in order to gain muscle in the first place?

you're forgetting that 500ml of milk will also give you 15-17g of fat :eek: keep it skimmed or semi-skimmed to reduce that.

as for the amount of protein i take in at least 1g per lb of bodyweight.
The %'s of carbs/protein/fat in my diet is 60/25/15 (when i stick to it )

but everyone's different some people might gain muscle better with lower carbs and higher protein diets etc. you have to find what works best for you

Prior Of Taize

yeah increasing your protein intake but also adding to your carbs defeats the purpose unless your doing very intense and hence energy burning exercises.

Off topic but having come from 22.5 stone to around 17.8 stone i find it hilarious that some people want to gain weight. im not saying its stupid but i will never understand it. opposite ends of the spectrum i guess.

Guv

Very true POT for every guy who wants to lose 2-3 stone there is a bloke who wants to gain 2-3 stone. Keeps the world balanced!

Easygainer

Prior Of Taize wrote:

yeah increasing your protein intake but also adding to your carbs defeats the purpose unless your doing very intense and hence energy burning exercises.

Off topic but having come from 22.5 stone to around 17.8 stone i find it hilarious that some people want to gain weight. im not saying its stupid but i will never understand it. opposite ends of the spectrum i guess.

Guess you'd never understand me, so! I was up to 19.5 stone, dieted to 15 stone when I stopped competing (pling), went back to 17.5 stone to put on muscle, dieted again back to 14 stone, now putting on muscle again. I'm currently close on 16 stone with sub 10%bf...

It sounds odd to some, but to get big, as in muscle wise, you've to eat big. How strict you can/want to keep the diet is up to the individual... I can lose fat fairly easily but I still stay strict enough now. I could eat more food I liked and gain an extra stone, but then I'd feel self conscious and have at least another 6 weeks of dieting on my hands...

poobum

i dont know im realy weird i rarely gain weight or size but my lifts advance hugely!! i have pushed up my bench and squat by 10kg on bench on 12.5 on squat in the last month but have the same bodyfat and weight! i ant seem to gain it but thats in my genetics i think! i eat shed loads of carbs low amounts of sugar and about 230 grams of protein a day(im only 13 and a half stone) and im not gaining any size just strength!

Easygainer

poobum wrote:

i dont know im realy weird i rarely gain weight or size but my lifts advance hugely!! i have pushed up my bench and squat by 10kg on bench on 12.5 on squat in the last month but have the same bodyfat and weight! i ant seem to gain it but thats in my genetics i think! i eat shed loads of carbs low amounts of sugar and about 230 grams of protein a day(im only 13 and a half stone) and im not gaining any size just strength!

Not eating enough protein or just enough full stop is the prob. To put it in context, I take in 600g+ of protein/day but not too much carbs and I grow like a weed. On training days I would take in around 300g carbs but that figure drops to 100-150g on off days, and I also do cardio on off days - still keep growing and staying lean though!

Anyone who says that is overkill, please, post your pics and I'll see then....

poobum

600! wow...whats you diet like? 100 grams 6 times a day? or what?thats alot of stuff! i try to eat equal carbs to protein ratio with half that again as unsaturated fats(if even)! i was always told 1 gram protein per pound of bodyweight is this wrong then? i weigh 183 pounds i think and i eat about 230 which is more then iv told i needed....should i up my protein intake? and up my carbs aswel?

Easygainer

poobum wrote:

600! wow...whats you diet like? 100 grams 6 times a day? or what?thats alot of stuff! i try to eat equal carbs to protein ratio with half that again as unsaturated fats(if even)! i was always told 1 gram protein per pound of bodyweight is this wrong then? i weigh 183 pounds i think and i eat about 230 which is more then iv told i needed....should i up my protein intake? and up my carbs aswel?

Well, it's part of a diet I'm on. In a typical day I go through 2lbs chicken/turkey, 2lbs red meat, 12 scoops of whey and 12 eggs (with only 2 yolks) for my protein. It's expensive, but you grow and stay lean. Protein uses 4x as many calories as carbs or fats when being digested, hence the leanness and increased metabolic rate.

I also split all my meals either pro/fat or pro/carb with more pro/carb meals on training days and only 1 or 2 on non-training days. The reason for this is so the insulin spike from carbs has no fat with it to store... Another rule is that with pro/carb meals, you eat the protein first, then the carbs. This is because carbs are digested 30% in the mouth and the rest in the lower intestine, whereas protein is digested in the stomach. If you have carbs first, they leave little room for the protein to be digested and absorbed and you also risk satiety before you have consumed your protein needs.

I could go on all day about my diet and still not tell you everything, but suffice to say it works for me and everyone else who's applied it right and strictly.

poobum

any chance you could pm me your diet? if its to much hassle ts ok! im jus interested in trying it out!

Easygainer

poobum wrote:

any chance you could pm me your diet? if its to much hassle ts ok! im jus interested in trying it out!

I could post up the principles and have it stickied because I've gotten a lot of pms about DC training. Like any program, it will be tailored from these principles - I take low carbs cos I'm not an ecto, but an ecto would take more carbs etc...

poobum

that would be handy!im looking to up my weight as it dosent ever go up! my strength is increasing and my bodyfat is staying the same yet i dont gain weight...im geneticaly weird to start off, im stronger and extremly flexable...alot more then i shoud be for my size and build! like i do no stretches ever but i can make my elbow touch my opposite shoulder going behind my head.....im benching and squating the same as guys 3 stone heavier then me on the same programs(school rugby programs) who have lower body fat then me...

joc_06

Easygainer wrote:

Protein uses 4x as many calories as carbs or fats when being digested, hence the leanness and increased metabolic rate.

Did not know this. My diet is the one thing that need cleaning up. Must work on it

Easygainer

joc_06 wrote:

Did not know this. My diet is the one thing that need cleaning up. Must work on it

Carbs and fats use 5kcals when digesting every 100kcal, whereas this figure is 20kcals for fats. Just for closure on the issue

joejoem

Easygainer wrote:

I could post up the principles and have it stickied because I've gotten a lot of pms about DC training. Like any program, it will be tailored from these principles - I take low carbs cos I'm not an ecto, but an ecto would take more carbs etc...

I would like that, can we make this a sticky? If you could give a sample or guide diet?

pwd

The reason for this is so the insulin spike from carbs has no fat with it to store

Does this mean you shouldn't use full-fat milk for a drink containing glucose for an insulin spike?
Come to think of it I read somewhere that consuming fat with carbs lowers their GI. Does that mean that using full-fat milk would dampen the effect of an insulin spike?

Drinking a protein/glucose drink immediately after training has been demonstrated to be very effective for weight training. A 8% solution is probably optimal because that is similar to the osmolarity of plasma.

The following formula for such a drink is effective:

.5g dextrose per kg body weight
.5g maltodextrin per kg body weight
.5g whey protein per kg body weight

It may be a good idea to drink half immediately, and sip the other half over the next 40 minutes or so.

A drink like this is effective because it provides your muscles with protein when they are at maximum hypertrophy, and it also causes an increase in hormone levels that help build muscle.

Creatine can also be included in the drink, but remember that creatine becomes useless creatinine 15 minutes or so after being dissolved.

Lots of people use more protein in a drink than I put in that formula. That formula is not the only way to do it.
I don't know how important it is to use an 8% solution. It would be impractical for very big guys, or for people using a lot more protein, simply because of the volume of fluid entailed.
It is probably a bad idea to put creatine in a solution that is saturated or nearly saturated anyway: If creatine is still not dissolved when it reaches the bowel (which is unlikely) it can cause stomach upset.

pwd

" I chose not to use milk with the VP2 because it would slow down the insulin spike."
from http://www.teenbodybuilding.com/derek9.htm

similar: http://www.freetrainers.com/FT/jsp/Message.jsp?f_ix=13&t_ix=2550

Google agrees that milk decreases the effect of an insulin spike. I wonder if
skim milk would. The whey protein I am using tastes bad in water.

This link seems to have good info. it says that an insulin spike when you wake up in the morning will also increase homrone production:

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/brewster4.htm

DrIndy

The scientist in me comes out at these times. When quoting sources, it is really important to do more than just google. There should be evidence such as from a sports science journal. Otherwise it is hearsay and sometimes such evidence can be very detrimental.

I would never trust an article on the internet unless the author quoted journal sources and I could check them for veracity (they may have forgotten to include important aspects etc....)

This also applies to supplements, if there is any research evidence for the choice, their benefit and best use, it is a lot easier for people to choose. (I know there is some, but info like this is good if stickied).

2nd - when going on any diet, remember the nutritional balance! Make sure you get enough minerals and vitamins and other essential nutrients or you'll get scurvy or other nasty illnesses.

pwd

If you are referring to my post, I hardly think that is necessary in the context. The information about the post-workout drink was found in very reliable sources, with studies described demonstrating that such a drink is as effective as creatine supplementation. I always do check the reliability of sources where it is relevant. I don't think it is necessary inn the case of milk's effectiveness in a post-workout drink because there is nothing to lose by switching to water. Also, I already know that consuming fat with carbs causes the carbs to be digested slower, and hence decrease or eliminate an insulin spike.