God Damn Europe! (WEEE Tax)

Kintarō Hattori

I've just come into work this morning and been informed about a new directive from the government called WEEE, Waste Electrical and Electronic Equipment.

Basically this means that from the 13th of August whenever you buy ANY electronic goods you will have to pay a tax for doing so. Retailers have no choice but to charge this, whether you like it or not. Some of the charges are as follows:

Large TV's (69cm+) - €20
Medium TV's (52-69cm) - €10
Small TV's, DVD Players, Camera's, Camcorders - €5
Small Consumer Products, MP3, Walkman etc - €2
Miscellaneous minor items - €1

Apparantly this fee is to fund the cost of enviormentally sound collection, treatment and disposal of 'historical' WEEE from private households.

You are paying this TAX for having bought stuff in the past. Details are sketchy to say the least, but it seems that even if your a tourist from a country that doesn't have the WEEE directive in place you will still have to pay the tax regardless.

Man I am p*ssed off!

squrm

Why, you planning on buying many large TV's?

Gordon

eo980 wrote:

You are paying this TAX for having bought stuff in the past.

What do you mean by that?

Kingsize

youd be more pissed off if you could see the amount of abandoned fridges & washing machines i pass on my way to work,
it seems grassy patches in industrial areas are the top spot for filthy bastards
to dump their old household appliances in.

drunkenfool

what would you rather rolling green hills, or a dump? hmmm
bring on the tax!

crazymonkey

I had to pay a recycling centre, alot of money last week to take a fridge, kettle and toaster off me,, If i have to do this again does that mean i will be paying twice inorder to recycle these. Tax at purchaseing and then pay to recycle old,

Kingsize

yeah & i have to pay 15 cent every time i need a plastic bag despite the fact that i never littered in my life but what are you gonna do?

seamus

crazymonkey wrote:

I had to pay a recycling centre, alot of money last week to take a fridge, kettle and toaster off me,, If i have to do this again does that mean i will be paying twice inorder to recycle these. Tax at purchaseing and then pay to recycle old,

EU Guidelines require that when you buy a new fridge, the retailer is obliged to take your old fridge off you free of charge. I'm not sure if this now extends to *all* electronics products and white goods.

skywalker

It doesnt seem overly excessive if it means safe disposal of electrical appliances. €20 isnt much on a €2000 plasma. If its what Seamus said though & you can only avail of it when you purchase a new appliance it seems very limited, but if it means theres a place you can dispose of your electrical appliances safely & without damaging the environment I dont see it as a problem.

Branoic

What the hell are you complaining about? I think it's a great idea.

shellby

i can see why your annoyed
there are charges for entering dumps, bin tags and household waste disposal charges.
skips cost a fortune and the recycling bin is emptied a grand total of once a month it's gone beyond a joke at this stage the cost of living in this country is ridiculous

Kernel

Kingsize wrote:

youd be more pissed off if you could see the amount of abandoned fridges & washing machines i pass on my way to work,
it seems grassy patches in industrial areas are the top spot for filthy bastards
to dump their old household appliances in.

Yeah but a lot of those filthy bastards will still just dump their **** anywhere close by rather than bring it to a recycle centre. Also, do you think you should pay a recycle tax on a walkman? Would you bring your broken old walkman to a recycle centre, or just toss it in the bin?

I heard on the news that you were talking about 40 quid extra for a fridge or a plasma.

OP, as you can see, a large amount of stupid paddies are prepared to pay extra taxes for things - that's why we live in a rip-off Ireland. Don't get me started on the bin tax, or the westlink bridge! No wonder the government and retailers are riding us up the arse.

Sarsfield

You're just paying for waste disposal up front.

It's a good thing that people have to pay to get rid of rubbish as it should encourage people to waste less. Once it's enforcable (and this new directive makes it enforcable).

Kernel, I think you'll find it's informed paddies who don't have a problem with fair taxes on particular activieies (such as waste disposal). It's stupid paddies who will just moan about everything and want all their services handed to them on a plate. Pure uninformed ignorance. I support the bin tax too. Waste less, pay less VAT - consume less, pay less etc. Common, shared services such as roads everyone should pay a bit based on income (income tax). I agree with you on the West Link bridge though. Crap PPPs are a ripoff.

Rhyme

I imagined this thread to be slinging abuse at the band 'Europe'... how wrong i was.

Unless you are planning on buying in bulk this shouldnt be a huge problem

Kintarō Hattori

seamus wrote:

EU Guidelines require that when you buy a new fridge, the retailer is obliged to take your old fridge off you free of charge. I'm not sure if this now extends to *all* electronics products and white goods.

But that's it Seamus, it's not going to be free of charge. When you buy your new fridge you are going to have to pay a WEEE charge of €40 for that. Yes the retailer will take it off of you because your buying a new one, but you've already payed €40 for the privilage.

You good folk here don't seem to realise you have to pay a charge from now on, on EVERYTHING remotely electrical. Bulbs will have a charge of €0.50 each. Strangely, and I wonder how many brown envelopes were passed, mobile phones are emitted from the tax, yet you have to pay a tax on MP3 players, how their historical cleanup. There are MANY MANY more old phones lying around than old MP3 players, what's up with that?

Also shops who buy in goods from abroad, say england or france or wherever now have to pay a special import tax for the WEEE, as they are deemed to be importers of those goods.

I don't mind having to pay to have my TV or fridge removed and disposed of in a safe and enviormental manner. Stop whinging like kids. Your missing my point. I utterly RESENT having to pay a tax on EVERYTHING electrical I buy in the future, right down to light bulbs, yet strangely, items like mobiles aren't included.

The government have rushed this in, in a fierce hurry, shops have to comply with this new directive by the 13th of this month, but hardly anyone knows anything about it. Guidelines are very vague, procedures are almost not in place.

skywalker

Sarsfield wrote:

No crazymonkey, you won't have to pay the recycling centre because you won't have to go to one. Just drop your old fridges and TVs off at Dixons or DID electrical (or Brown Thomas for that matter) and let them take care of it.

Do you mean when your buying a new one or anytime? I cant see shops allowing themselves to become recycling centers. & if its the other option, why should you have to buy a new appliance to recycle an old one?

tba

€40

/me makes ppfffttt sound

Frankly I would be willing to pay more.

KTRIC

What's the point in complaining, bend over and take it up the ass like everyone else in Ireland and Europe.

Sarsfield

When buying a new one I think. So I've removed that from my post as I'm not totally sure.

Kernel

Rhyme wrote:

Unless you are planning on buying in bulk this shouldnt be a huge problem

It's that attitude that has the country in the state it is in. "Ah sure, it's only 10c on the pint, that's nothing", "ah sure it's only a few euro cheaper to shop in the other place, I'll stay where I am", "ah sure, the M50 might be a rip-off, but it's handier than driving the other way, so I pay it", "ah sure I don't have a credit card, the government fees don't affect to me"... etc. etc...

Power to the people!

Mantel

Basically this means that from the 13th of August whenever you buy ANY electronic goods you will have to pay a tax for doing so. Retailers have no choice but to charge this, whether you like it or not. Some of the charges are as follows:

Retailers most certinaly do have a choice, the government even told consumers to check with the retailer if they add the charge on to the sale price and encourgage you to walk out of the shop if the retailer does this.

The WEEE Directive requires producers to be responsible for the financing of the collection, treatment, recovery and environmentally sound disposal of WEEE from 13 August 2005. It means that final users of such household WEEE will be entitled to leave that waste back free of charge, either to retail outlets in instances where a replacement item is purchased, or other authorised collection points, including local authority civic amenity sites, from that date onwards.

From - http://www.environ.ie/DOEI/DOEIPol.nsf/wvNavView/Waste+Electrical+&+Electronic+Equipment?OpenDocument&Lang=

Kintarō Hattori

Just read my last thread, I added some more info.

Kintarō Hattori

K-TRIC wrote:

What's the point in complaining, bend over and take it up the ass like everyone else in Ireland and Europe.

Other than ourselves, Greece are the only country to implement this. Seemingly it doesn't have to be put in place for a few years, but we decided to go with it nice and early.

Rhyme

Kernel wrote:

It's that attitude that has the country in the state it is in. "Ah sure, it's only 10c on the pint, that's nothing", "ah sure it's only a few euro cheaper to shop in the other place, I'll stay where I am", "ah sure, the M50 might be a rip-off, but it's handier than driving the other way, so I pay it", "ah sure I don't have a credit card, the government fees don't affect to me"... etc. etc...

Power to the people!

For me the comment i made only really apples in this context as i next-to-never buy electronic equipment. The addition to the pint etc do bother me, its this one that i couldnt care less about... unless my tv blew up right now

Kingsize

"do you think you should pay a recycle tax on a walkman? "

Well it would do away with the need for a drawer full of broken walkmen which is what most people have at the moment

Kintarō Hattori

Let me just clear it up- I think there might be some confusion.

When you go to buy either a big f*ck off Plasma OR a light bulb, you HAVE to pay the WEEE tax for that. The retailer is then obliged if you bought something similar from them before to take the old one off of you and have it disposed off at THEIR expense. If you have it delivered to you, then are obliged to take it off of you.

It is not free. You are paying for it with the WEEE tax.
The government does not cover the charge of disposal or recycling, that has to be paid for by the retailer, who inevitably will put their price up to cover these extra costs.

If it is something that came from outside Ireland, then the shop has to pay an import tax, as they are seen to be importers of that product. That's ludricous, how many of these things do shops source from outside Ireland?! Alot, so yet another charge the retailer will have to pay for, meaning a higher price to you.

Hobbes

Haven't read the whole thread but from the news yesterday the retailers are not allowed charge you this tax on any new goods you buy. You are to report it if they do.

Kingsize

how about we STOP BUYING STUFF!!
if you can afford a fukkin plasma tv then you can afford the tax on it.
sorry but i people want to continue cosuming & dumping their **** everywhere then somebody has to pay the price.we cannot conmtinue Shi-tting all over our country & expecting somebody else to clean up & pay for our mess.

Kintarō Hattori

Hobbes wrote:

Haven't read the whole thread but from the news yesterday the retailers are not allowed charge you this tax on any new goods you buy. You are to report it if they do.

From what I understand, it's the opposite. When you buy a new electrical product, you are charged the tax, for hostorically having bought similar goods in the past. You are paying essentially to have those recycled.

Kernel

Rhyme wrote:

For me the comment i made only really apples in this context as i next-to-never buy electronic equipment. The addition to the pint etc do bother me, its this one that i couldnt care less about... unless my tv blew up right now

But that's my point, people let too much **** slide in this country because it won't affect them. An increase in price or a new stealth tax should always be opposed and resisted if possible. Examples of resistance? Not using the westlink toll bridge, or drinking cheapo non-Diageo (sp?) beer in a pub (or stay at home and drink cans!).

They're talking about bringing back college fees (after the election no doubt), now that won't affect me, but some poor sod still has to shell out 5grand for an education, and I don't think it's right. The government will make 1billion euro in revenue from the westlink bridge, and yet they still charge you road tax, and they used EU money to build the bloody motorway. Ridiculous.

[RANT]
Irish people are too complacent nowadays. On holidays this year in Spain, in the Irish area you were charged twice as much (sometimes more!) as the British area 5 minutes down the road. Irish were being robbed blind in the bar (we caught them trying to do us about 5 or 6 times over 2 weeks!), not noticing, throwing the change into their pockets. I swear, most never even knew the price of what they were ordering (which was 3.95 for a small bottle of bulmers). Water was 1.50, for a plastic bottle you could buy next to the appartments for 20cents. Yet people were queing to buy it at 1.50 ..... I dunno.. we're just too complacent or too dumb.
[/RANT]

Kernel

Kingsize wrote:

Well it would do away with the need for a drawer full of broken walkmen which is what most people have at the moment

Lol. That's true.. maybe we should collect all our broken walkmen and dump them by the thousands in front of the Dail! Or I could just throw them in the previously free bin I'm now supposed to pay a fiver a week and 200 odd euro per year for.

Rhyme

Acknowledged... perhaps we are getting too soft these days.

...and congrats on post 1000 Kernel

Kingsize

i agree that irish people are too complacent in general but we seem to get up in arms about the least important things,government stealing & embezzzling left right & centre & all we care about is the price of a pint & the fookin tax on our big fukkin tv.
no wonder the bastards are laughin up their sleeves as they fukk us up the ass & steal our wallets while theyre at it.

skywalker

Have to say, this issue aside. Completely agree with Kernal.

therecklessone

Full list of costs

EMCs are being introduced under the 2002 EU Directive on Waste Electrical and Electronic Equipment (WEEE) to fund the recycling and safe disposal of old electrical and electronic equipment – from small household items such as hairdryers and radios through to larger products such as fridge freezers
and cookers.

EMCs have been set and agreed according to specific product types and these costs are the same regardless of what brand or from what outlet in the
Republic of Ireland an item is purchased.

Civic amenity centres, of which there are approximately 64 located throughout the country, will allow consumers to dispose of all old electronic
equipment free of charge. Consumers will also be able to bring back old electrical or electronic equipment to a retailer on a one-for-one basis when purchasing a similar product. Alternatively, if a retailer is delivering a new
product to a consumer’s home, then a similar old product can be collected at the same time, provided it is disconnected and does not pose a health and
safety issue.

EMCs will fund the cost of the recycling scheme – collection, storage, retailer’s delivery to civic amenity centres, onward transportation and recycling. No margin is being applied to the costs by either retailers
or producers.

EMCs will be clearly displayed (‘visible EMC’) and itemised on receipts which retailers issue to consumers.

All EMCs applied to items will be audited by the independent regulation body, WEEE Register, to ensure producer and retailer compliance.

Can I assume everyone who's complaining about this is at a minimum consistent in their approach, and objected to the plastic bag tax as well?

At least this will be transparent, rather than a tax levied on producers/retailers and clawed back thorugh unexplained price increase. Perhaps it will prompt people to ask do they really need that 3rd TV for the kitchen...

Kingsize

Kernel wrote:

Lol. That's true.. maybe we should collect all our broken walkmen and dump them by the thousands in front of the Dail! Or I could just throw them in the previously free bin I'm now supposed to pay a fiver a week and 200 odd euro per year for.

we could organise a stealth dumping in dublin corpo bins in the vicinty of leinster house !!!

Kingsize

therecklessone wrote:

Full list of costs
Perhaps it will prompt people to ask do they really need that 3rd TV for the kitchen...

Its a bit like the Dublin Taxi crisis when people had to face up to the fact that
its not really that far from town to rathmines

seamus

Thanks therecklessone, I think that clears that up.

Kingsize

So Where Do Light Bulbs Come Into It €2 Or 50c Or Free??

CJhaughey

If you don't want to pay the charges , just buy from England, simple no?

seamus

Kingsize wrote:

So Where Do Light Bulbs Come Into It €2 Or 50c Or Free??

I'm guessing by "Luminaries" they mean lighting fixtures as opposed to the bulbs. It would seem that common or garden light bulbs are free. Where do eco-lights fit in? Are they flourescent?

Dades

CJhaughey wrote:

If you don't want to pay the charges , just buy from England, simple no?

Or the States? Haven't bought something electrical in an Irish shop for some time now...

MorningStar

Kingsize wrote:

yeah & i have to pay 15 cent every time i need a plastic bag despite the fact that i never littered in my life but what are you gonna do?

Unless you plan to use a bag for 100 years you are going to be littering with it somewhere.
I approve of the goal but it's baddly applied. The producers have been too slow to produce recyclable goods or long life/repairable goods. Return old goods and then charge the manufacturer a fee. Their fault that the consumer had no control over.

Peteee

Homer: Woo-hoo! A perfect day. Zero bears and one big fat hairy
paycheck.
[opens it up]
Hey! How come my pay is so low? ... Bear patrol tax! This is
an outrage! It's the biggest tax increase in history!
Lisa: Actually, Dad, it's the smallest tax increase in history.
Homer: Let the bears pay the bear tax. I pay the Homer tax.
Lisa: That's home-_owner_ tax.
Homer: Well, anyway, I'm still outraged.

Quimby: Are those morons getting dumber or just louder?
Assistant: [checks his clipboard] Dumber, sir.
-- Dumb and dumber, "Much Apu About Nothing"

"They want the bear patrol but they won't pay taxes for it." Quimby
thinks of a novel solution. He announces that taxes are high because
of illegal immigrants and that they should be disposed of.

Moe: Immigants! I knew it was them! Even when it was the bears, I knew it
was them.

:rolleyes: Theres no such thing as a free lunch, stop whining!

maidhc

The WEEE directive merely stipulates the cost of disposing the item is added to the sale price. As a result the price of the item is increased, but the manufacturer will have to dispose of the item. The obvious consequence is 1) No more fridges etc dumped in the countryside 2) Fridges etc are made with their disposal in mind.

The same regulations apply to plastic farmers use, and it has been hugely successful. A similar scheme is in place for end of life vehicles.

The fact is it costs money to dispose of old equipment, and the WEEE regulations are infinitely more sensible than throwing goods which contain dangerous CFCs and PCBs into a rubbish tip.

Although there may be valid questions asked as to how tax money is spent in this country, Its beyond me why people think they have a right to have their waste disposed of for free.

Kernel

Rhyme wrote:

...and congrats on post 1000 Kernel

Oh, thanks Rhyme, I didn't notice until you said it! Wihoo! It kinda tells me I really ought to do more work....

skywalker wrote:

Have to say, this issue aside. Completely agree with Kernal.

Cheers skywalker, the resistance will continue!

Kernel

maidhc wrote:

Its beyond me why people think they have a right to have their waste disposed of for free.

Because in Dublin it always has been? Suddenly now they need the money, but 5 years ago my PAYE paid for that service.

maidhc

Yes, but its their waste, created by them. The ideal is to minimise the amount of waste, and this will always be impossible if there isnt an incentive to do so. The best incentive is money!!

The WEEE will create an incentive for manufacturers to produce more disposable equipment, and people wont have to pay at the time of disposal. Both of these are good things.

Throwing stuff into a hole in the ground like before is no longer an acceptible approach. However recycling and so forth is far more expensive. There is no reason why PAYE should pay for this, and it could be better spent on health, education, roads, and public transport.

kasintahan

This is one tax I'll enjoy paying.

No more road side dumping of white goods, just lash it back at the retailer of your new one and *poof*... it's gone.
Much handier.

The Sweeper

My folks recently bought a cooker from Power City. This isn't an entertainment purchase, it's vital (old one packed up utterly).

The salesman at power city tells them to pay the van driver on delivery, €20. They go to the checkout, the girl at checkout says "oh no, you don't pay him on delivery, you pay me here, €20". So they pay the gal, she tells them the van driver will take the old cooker away.

Day of delivery: van driver arrives. Delivers new cooker. Is asked to take old cooker. Says "that'll be €20". There follows an exchange about the fact my parents have paid the money already.

"Oh no," sez van driver, "That was the delivery charge for the new one. It's €20 to take the old one away too." Van driver even goes as far as to phone Power City for confirmation, and indeed, there are two charges, delivery for the new cooker and pick up for the old.

My folks are in their seventies. They just can't deal with stuff like that. My father just ends up ranting uselessly at the van driver, my mother would practically hand over the contents of her purse to stop him ranting. The whole thing ends up as a completely stressful exchange. They don't have the sense to ask him for a receipt, or the energy to embark on a letter-writing campaign about the hapless confusion of the store staff.

So they get caught coming and going. Anything that'll stop the confusion of handing a van driver cash on demand has to be good to be honest.

Kernel

maidhc wrote:

Yes, but its their waste, created by them. The ideal is to minimise the amount of waste, and this will always be impossible if there isnt an incentive to do so. The best incentive is money!!

The WEEE will create an incentive for manufacturers to produce more disposable equipment, and people wont have to pay at the time of disposal. Both of these are good things.

Throwing stuff into a hole in the ground like before is no longer an acceptible approach. However recycling and so forth is far more expensive. There is no reason why PAYE should pay for this, and it could be better spent on health, education, roads, and public transport.

You're right that money is an incentive, unfortunately, it's my money that's being used, and as such, the incentive becomes a penalty. If we are talking about bin tax, I still do not accept that people should now pay for something that previously was part of their PAYE taxes. With regard to the white goods, for certain products I can see it makes some sense (eg. fridges are difficult to dispose of), but ultimately the consumer is the one to suffer, as the manufacturer has simply passed this charge onto the consumer. The manufacturers are not really being held accountable for recycling their products, you and I are bankrolling what should have been legislation passed on them.

For most goods, they will actually make money, since they will hardly ever be recycling mp3 players, discarded walkmen, irons and small goods like that. People will still bin these, but will have paid the recycling charge on them. I'd rather just pay for what I recycle tbh.