A new low for SF?

murphaph

I was just watching UTVLive at 6 (09/08/05) and they revealed that SF had advised people not to go to the PSNI with information on the horrendous double-rape of a fifteen year old child. The spokeswoman from the Belfast Rape Crisis Centre was naturally sickened by this. I googled and could only find a mention on BBC NI's 'what the papers say', Here

'Moral bankruptcy'

The News Letter's editorial describes Sinn Fein's refusal to encourage the people of west Belfast to pass on information to the police about the horrendous rape as "pathetic, though true to form".

The paper calls the situation a reminder of Sinn Fein's "moral bankruptcy".

Is this a new low for SF? because I couldn't give a fcuking monkeys if you don't have confidence in the PSNI, this was the vile double-rape of a child and there can be no good reason for not going DIRECTLY to the police with any information you might have. :mad:

hill16

I think its a new low for you, using the rape of this child to get your anti Republican views across. :mad:

mike65

Ah dont fret, they'll send the lads round, who needs the rozzers eh?

Maybe they already know the attactkers are members/associates.

from iol

The rape shocked people in West Belfast and across Northern Ireland, especially as the attackers used their victim’s mobile phone to ring the girl’s mother and text her after the attack.

Mike.

oscarBravo

hill16 wrote:

I think its a new low for you, using the rape of this child to get your anti Republican views across. :mad:

Yup, that's much worse. :rolleyes:

murphaph

hill16 wrote:

I think its a new low for you, using the rape of this child to get your anti Republican views across. :mad:

I've no problem with republicans who act within the law. I have a big problem with rapists and others who break the law, and afaic SF's failure to encourage people to give whatever information they have to the police is disgusting. Your statement above is typical SF slight-of-hand, designed to throw people's attention from the key point.

hill16

Sorry I am not in Sinn Fein,I am only pointing out that some people will do anything to get one over on Republicans even using the rape of this child.And the Newsletter a Unionist paper is not the best source for what goes on in the Nationalist community.

murphaph

hill16 wrote:

Sorry I am not in Sinn Fein

No need to apologise for that!

hill16 wrote:

I am only pointing out that some people will do anything to get one over on Republicans even using the rape of this child.

I said SF, not republicans. SF don't have a monopoly on the term.

hill16 wrote:

And the Newsletter a Unionist paper is not the best source for what goes on in the Nationalist community.

Like I said, it was the only quote I could find on the net. The item came to my attention on UTVLive in an interview with the spokeswoman from the Rape Crisis Centre, a pretty apolitical association.

Anyway, if you've nothing to say about this thread (not me) then don't bother posting.

mike65

http://www.utvlive.com/newsroom/indepth.asp?id=63575&pt=n

Michael Browne, a Sinn Fein councillor accepted those who felt comfortable dealing with police should make contact with them.

He added: "Anyone without the confidence to deal directly with the PSNI (Police Service of Northern Ireland) should make sure that what they know is placed in the public domain. It`s crucial these people are stopped."

So there you go.

Mike.

mycroft

hill16 wrote:

Sorry I am not in Sinn Fein,I am only pointing out that some people will do anything to get one over on Republicans even using the rape of this child.And the Newsletter a Unionist paper is not the best source for what goes on in the Nationalist community.

I'm sorry what? How is anyone using this "to get one over" on SF?

A girl has been raped. Raped. And SF publically announce

Anyone without the confidence to deal directly with the PSNI (Police Service of Northern Ireland)

should do what?

Rather than "lets stop the bastards", it's some limp wristed if you don't feel confident with the PSNI don't go. In short SF use the opportunity of a rape to get a dig in at the PSNI. And you're sicken by

hill16 wrote:

I think its a new low for you, using the rape of this child to get your anti Republican views across.

Successful prosecutions on rape cases are down to an all time low, and SF are actively suggesting people not go to the police thereby reducing the potential success of any criminal case aganist the men.

This reminds me of this piece of doublethink by the INLA.

Davei141

I heard this on UTV aswell, i thought i was hearing things. How does anyone vote for these clowns.

hill16

Did Sinn Fein make a statement or publicly tell people "dont go to the PSNI about this rape".

murphaph

hill16 wrote:

Did Sinn Fein make a statement or publicly tell people "dont go to the PSNI about this rape".

UTV said they refused to comment when asked for a statement or an interview today. Unsurprising really, even they know this stinks to high heaven.

flogen

Pretty stupid, even if SF was right to have no confidence in the PSNI, the fact is that any information on the rape is better in their hands than kept private.
It's pretty disgusting when political parties in the north use something as abhorent as a rape to get their unrelated opinions across, I'm not saying SF are right or wrong to distrust the PSNI, but for god sake, you'd think they'd be big enough to put their differences aside for such a case.

hill16

I know people who live near were this rape took place.They told me that since the IRA statement the local hoods have been running amok knowing damn well that any action taken against them could result in slowing down the peace process.I am not saying this rape is a direct result of local hoods thinking they can get away with anything,but I think you will see a huge increase in serious crime in Nationalist areas.

mycroft

hill16 wrote:

I know people who live near were this rape took place.They told me that since the IRA statement the local hoods have been running amok knowing damn well that any action taken against them could result in slowing down the peace process.I am not saying this rape is a direct result of local hoods thinking they can get away with anything,but I think you will see a huge increase in serious crime in Nationalist areas.

I know someone who lives here Adams and apparently he regularly enjoys dressing up as frank-en-furter from the rocky horror picture show. Ancedotal "evidence" isn't proof.

How about SF supporting the policing board and letting the police do their job.

is_that_so

hill16 wrote:

I know people who live near were this rape took place.They told me that since the IRA statement the local hoods have been running amok knowing damn well that any action taken against them could result in slowing down the peace process.I am not saying this rape is a direct result of local hoods thinking they can get away with anything,but I think you will see a huge increase in serious crime in Nationalist areas.

No disputing that. Still a fairly heartless comment, that he thought he even had to say it. Ultimately they will be part of the policing boards and a good way to demonstrate that level of maturity is by the absence of inane policy statements.
IMHO it is indicative of the dearth of talent that lies below the top level of the party.

supersheep

Mycroft, I like the way you quote selectively from the councillor's words. He said if you feel comfortable with the PSNI, go to them. If not, tell someone, to make sure it gets to the PSNI.
Like it or not, some people don't like the PSNI, or accept it. This way, at least they find out who did it.
But if SF did say "Don't go to the PSNI"... then I have no respect for them.

oscarBravo

supersheep wrote:

Like it or not, some people don't like the PSNI, or accept it.

Like it or not, the PSNI is the police force in Northern Ireland. Whether you like that, or accept it, doesn't change the fact that the PSNI are the only organisation with both the capability and the authority to bring these animals to justice. A refusal to co-operate fully with them in a case like this is utterly unforgivable and reprehensible.

murphaph

I'm reminded of German and British troops playing football with each other on xmas day. Sure, they were slaughtering each other the rest of the time but they made an exception for xmas day. SF can't seem to swallow their pride and make the exception for this case and it's pretty sad really. The people they represent surely don't agree with this stance? It was a 15 year old girl and no matter what they think of the PSNI, their constituents have daughters, sisters and mothers and it could have been one of them or could be next. I very much doubt the majority of nationalists agree with SF's stance and if they do then to hell with them.

MrPudding

hill16 wrote:

........but I think you will see a huge increase in serious crime in Nationalist areas.

Yes, this is a big problem. Now that the IRA cannot police these areas there is a serious problem with policing those with criminal tendancies.

We need something to fill the gap. We need a group to keep an eye on the trouble makers. They should be able to arrest people when they do something illegal. They should be able to investigate illegal activity. They should be controlled by the governent and be accountable to someone outside of their own organisation. What could we call them? Well they should be a force to be reckoned with, we could call them "The force." Hmmm, that doesn't really tell us what they do. "The force of arresting and investigation." A bit too long maybe. I suppose you could call arresting people and investigation "policing." Ok, this mightwork, we could call them "The Police Force." Hmmm, not bad but maybe it is more of a service. After all they are providing a service. Yep, that's it, "The Police Service." Actually if this works other places may do the same thing, we will need a way to distinguish them from others, hmmm tricky. I think there is only one Northern Ireland in the world, so, I suppose we could call it "The Police Service of Northern Ireland." Yes that is it. I think it might just catch on.

MrP

[Edit] Sorry folks, silly me. Someone just told me there already is a proper police service in NI. Funny enough it is actaully called the Police Service of Northern Ireland, so I suppose I was on the right line.

supersheep

oscarBravo wrote:

Like it or not, the PSNI is the police force in Northern Ireland. Whether you like that, or accept it, doesn't change the fact that the PSNI are the only organisation with both the capability and the authority to bring these animals to justice. A refusal to co-operate fully with them in a case like this is utterly unforgivable and reprehensible.

That's true, but some people will not agree. They will find themselves unable to go to the police force, for whatever reason. And, to me, what the councillor was saying was, "Tell us if you can't tell them, and WE'LL tell the PSNI..."
Oh, and thanks, MrP - that made me giggle!

murphaph

supersheep wrote:

They will find themselves unable to go to the police force, for whatever reason.

Through some sort of paralysis or just good ol' fashioned Norn Iron beligerance? There's no fcuking limp-d!ck excuse that's good enough for not going to the police with info on this heinous crime. Fcuking hell I can't believe some people think there is.

supersheep

Well, some people do. Not me, but I can see why others might. And what difference does it make if the police find out anyways?

Davei141

Even if people do, thats totally irrellevant. The fact is a councellor shouldnt be saying stuff like that. He should be saying 'please help the police catch these people' if he starts going on about '...if your comfortable' its just hindering the investigation.

supersheep wrote:

And what difference does it make if the police find out anyways?

They want to run an investigation not a circus. And chinese whispers is hardly going to help it.

murphaph wrote:

Through some sort of paralysis or just good ol' fashioned Norn Iron beligerance? There's no fcuking limp-d!ck excuse that's good enough for not going to the police with info on this heinous crime. Fcuking hell I can't believe some people think there is.

Yeah its rediculous, the E-Fit they had was very specific i cant believe somebody hasnt given them up. 'I didnt come forward because i dont like the police...' If it was anywhere else people would be calling them just as bad.

mycroft

supersheep wrote:

Mycroft, I like the way you quote selectively from the councillor's words. He said if you feel comfortable with the PSNI, go to them. If not, tell someone, to make sure it gets to the PSNI.
Like it or not, some people don't like the PSNI, or accept it. This way, at least they find out who did it.
But if SF did say "Don't go to the PSNI"... then I have no respect for them.

No i picked the most pertinant section the quote. Suggesting that if know something "but don't feel comfortable to speak to the PSNI" to put it in the public domain, suggests and implies theres an alternative to the PSNI and the legitmate police service of NI.

Rape cases are incredibly difficult to prosecute, by saying this he's helping ensure these men get off scot free.

McClane

Not a shinner but a lot of peoples statements here are very ignorant.

Someone said like it or not the PSNI is the police yadda yadda yadda.

Theres very simple facts that a lot of people here don't seem to grasp. The PSNI are no more respected then the RUC were. To a lot of people they are no more a police force then the UVF are. I know quite a few people up North and most of them would be Nationalist but not very Republican. They wouldn't support the RA at all in the "war" and most vote SDLP (Or not at all, or independant) but the same people wouldn't go near the PSNI for anything. I know that the majority of the Republican people would never go near them either and would turn to their local RA/Whoever for protection etc.

Of course this is changing and hopefully the PSNI can gain the trust of everyone (Or hatred of everyone equally, that could work too). But at the moment i can't condemn Republicans/Nationalists who feel they can't go to the PSNI regardless of whatever the Crime was.

Needless to say though, i think the SF statement is being exaggerated/taken badly by people who just want to give out about them and for all their mistakes and the things that SF has done, i don't think this is a necessarily bad one.

oscarBravo

supersheep wrote:

That's true, but some people will not agree. They will find themselves unable to go to the police force, for whatever reason.

If that's the case, then they are effectively implicit in this heinous crime. There should be no political principle, no personal grudge, no lingering suspicion more important than justice for this unfortunate victim.

McClane

McClane wrote:

Of course this is changing and hopefully the PSNI can gain the trust of everyone (Or hatred of everyone equally, that could work too). But at the moment i can't condemn Republicans/Nationalists who feel they can't go to the PSNI regardless of whatever the Crime was.

Takes time,it's not helped by the non encouragement of Republicans to join under the 50:50 recruitment system.
It is helped by the effect Nuala o Loan is having on the propensity for bad apples.

Needless to say though, i think the SF statement is being exaggerated/taken badly by people who just want to give out about them and for all their mistakes and the things that SF has done, i don't think this is a necessarily bad one.

I'd agree to an extent.
SF should have said nothing at all on this issue.Whoever authorised a statement like what was said in relation to this was being as stupid as whoever authorised the columbia interviews.
They had no tact.

What they said didnt approve of rape,it didnt even approve of it by default,it didnt approve of this heinous crime by default.
What they said however was indicative of a wreckless lack of both thought and tact though in my view.
Somebody didn't have the cop on to realise the ramifications of applying SF policy to informing the police on an issue like this.

Now that was some slip up on their part TBH, they should have known better, much better.

oscarBravo

McClane wrote:

Not a shinner but a lot of peoples statements here are very ignorant.

Someone said like it or not the PSNI is the police yadda yadda yadda.

I said that, so I'll take it you're calling my statement ignorant.

McClane wrote:

Theres very simple facts that a lot of people here don't seem to grasp. The PSNI are no more respected then the RUC were. To a lot of people they are no more a police force then the UVF are.

I'm aware of that. I'm aware of the reasons for that. I'm also aware that it doesn't change the fact that they are the police. The existence or otherwise of a police force is not a subjective thing. It's not a matter of individual preference whether or not the police have the mandate and authority to investigate crimes. The PSNI are the police, and it is their job to investigate this disgusting crime, and there is a public duty on all citizens to support them in that task, whether they feel like it or not.

McClane wrote:

Of course this is changing and hopefully the PSNI can gain the trust of everyone

How exactly is that supposed to happen when elected representatives haven't the common decency to support them against the kind of despicable animals who committed this crime?

McClane wrote:

But at the moment i can't condemn Republicans/Nationalists who feel they can't go to the PSNI regardless of whatever the Crime was.

I most certainly can, and will, and do.

murphaph

I certainly agree that it would have been better if SF said nothing rather than say what they said.

McClane

it doesn't change the fact that they are the police. The existence or otherwise of a police force is not a subjective thing. It's not a matter of individual preference whether or not the police have the mandate and authority to investigate crimes

Nothing changes the fact that the PSNI are the police. Nothing changed the fact that the RUC were the police when they went around committing crimes against Nationalists in the North. Nothing changed the fact that it was the army that murdered 14 people on bloody sunday. Nothing changed the fact that it was the leader of a country who ordered the killing of such and such million jews, nothing changes the fact that it was the police/armed forces who committed how many atrocities in the world throughout history.
Thats not the point, no ones denying they are the police.

I am simply pointing out that a lot of people i know, friends for a long time have no respect for the PSNI as a police force. They grew up in fear of the police, their parents lived with a fully corrupt "protestant police for a protestant people" who treated them like the enemy.

I don't think that the fact that Republicans/Nationalists don't trust the police and won't go to them is something we can condemn because none of us have lived/grown up in a situation like that.

And another simple fact of the situation is that many Republicans don't consider Northern Ireland a legitimate state. It doesn't chage the fact that Northern Ireland exists and there is a police force called the PSNI there but it does change how these people would percieve anything or anyone who claims to represent such a state.

How exactly is that supposed to happen when elected representatives haven't the common decency to support them against the kind of despicable animals who committed this crime?

Its not up to Sinn Féin or the Republicans/Nationalists to earn the PSNI's trust, its up the PSNI to earn their trust. And i can't blame them at all for that considering what kind of force and what kind of police officers represented the RUC not so long ago.

mycroft

McClane wrote:

Nothing changes the fact that the PSNI are the police. Nothing changed the fact that the RUC were the police when they went around committing crimes against Nationalists in the North. Nothing changed the fact that it was the army that murdered 14 people on bloody sunday. Nothing changed the fact that it was the leader of a country who ordered the killing of such and such million jews, nothing changes the fact that it was the police/armed forces who committed how many atrocities in the world throughout history.

1. Godwin's law.

2. What relevance is this. The PSNI have changed from the RUC, complaints aganist them are dropping and they have the best ombudsman in the western world to investigate complaints.

I am simply pointing out that a lot of people i know, friends for a long time have no respect for the PSNI as a police force. They grew up in fear of the police, their parents lived with a fully corrupt "protestant police for a protestant people" who treated them like the enemy.

And what does old fears about the RUC have to do with the PSNI?

I don't think that the fact that Republicans/Nationalists don't trust the police and won't go to them is something we can condemn because none of us have lived/grown up in a situation like that.

Some of us have. Some of us have family up there.

And another simple fact of the situation is that many Republicans don't consider Northern Ireland a legitimate state. It doesn't chage the fact that Northern Ireland exists and there is a police force called the PSNI there but it does change how these people would percieve anything or anyone who claims to represent such a state.

Oh thats alright then, be a dear and tell the wee girl that "while you condemn her rape, unfortunately you won't speak to the police so then men get locked up, because philosophicaly speaking you don't recognise this state and it's police force?" That'd be some comfort to her.

Its not up to Sinn Féin or the Republicans/Nationalists to earn the PSNI's trust, its up the PSNI to earn their trust. And i can't blame them at all for that considering what kind of force and what kind of police officers represented the RUC not so long ago.

Nifty, and do you know what the PSNI could do to cultivate that trust? Maybe lock up some unpleasant rapists.

Theres no political angle to this, I don't see why the police shouldn't be unfettered and allowed to go in and get their job done.

Whats that you say, they are being allowed? Well to a point. And their job isn't being made earlier by SF members suggesting there is an alternative to speaking to the police. How about SF shut their goddamn gobs, unless it's to say "If you know something go to the police, and lets see these bastards locked up"

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Davei141

Whatever the PSNI do they'll be condemned from one for being too light and another for being too heavy handed. The PSNI arent out to earn trust theyre out to do their job, which is hampered by 'people not comfortable' giving information which may lead to the arrest of 2 rapists. Just because they have 'no respect' is hardly a reason to NOT give information.

mcclane wrote:

And another simple fact of the situation is that many Republicans don't consider Northern Ireland a legitimate state. It doesn't chage the fact that Northern Ireland exists and there is a police force called the PSNI there but it does change how these people would percieve anything or anyone who claims to represent such a state.

Probably the weakest thing ive ever heard for not giving information on rapists.

mcclane wrote:

I don't think that the fact that Republicans/Nationalists don't trust the police and won't go to them is something we can condemn because none of us have lived/grown up in a situation like that.

Of course we can condemn people for with-holding information, the 'police are bad' is hardly a reason that will wash with any decent person.

mcclane wrote:

I am simply pointing out that a lot of people i know, friends for a long time have no respect for the PSNI as a police force. They grew up in fear of the police, their parents lived with a fully corrupt "protestant police for a protestant people" who treated them like the enemy.

I know alot of people who have no respect for the police, the day i defend them for refusing information on such a crime is the day hell will freeze over.

Mighty_Mouse

Sinn Fein supporters and nationalists in the north dont exactly feel comfortable going to the police. Something to do with 30 years of collusion. In these circumstances SF have told people there are other options for those with information such as local SF councillors and priests. I dont see a problem there. Its actally encouraging people to speak up.

SF dont support policing. Thats a political issue.

Correct me if I'm wrong but SF havent said "dont go". They just dont endorse the police. Why would they unless its a trusworthy organisation for all people to feel comfortable reporting such crimes in the future.

Davei141

SF dont support policing. Thats a political issue.

And the penny drops. Precisely the reason people are outraged, playing political football with a rape.

tomMK1

as far as Im aware SF dont support either the PSNI nor the Policing Board until the Patton report is implimented in full.

Hope ye's are having fun with the SF bashing.

Mighty_Mouse

Fcuking hell I can't believe some people think there is.

having a child, parent spouse murdered might put you off a little imo!

And the penny drops. Precisely the reason people are outraged, playing political football with a rape.

Are they? I dont think SF have launched a public campaign using this as a reason to implement changes in policing. That would be political football. It would be insensitive to the familys involve cos it would put them in unnecessary spotlight IMO. ((even tho it's a perfect example of why we need changes in policing even more so in the wake of the IRA's disbandment.))

In fact its the people in here who are trying to play political football with a childs rape. Implying that it alone is reason enough for replublicans to trust a police force which has explicitly and implicitly murdered them for 30 years.

SF on the other hand are encouraging those people who might be afraid to approach the police, to approach their community representatives.

tomMK1

tomMK1 wrote:

Hope ye's are having fun with the SF bashing.

I hope you are having fun with the sinn Féin defending...


In the meantime could I ask all contributers to address the topic and avoid the one line digs.

is_that_so

Mighty_Mouse wrote:

having a child, parent spouse murdered might put you off a little imo! No I dont think SF have used this as a reason to implement changes in policing. That would be political football.

In fact its the people in here who are trying to play political football with a childs rape. Implying that it alone is reason enough for republicans to trust a police force which has explicitly and implicitly murdered them for 30 years.

SF on the other hand are encouraging those people who might be afraid to approach the police, to approach their community representatives.

Maybe the case but do at least acknowledge that the man is completely inept.
A lot of the scrutiny Sinn Fein are coming under and will continue to come under is down to the fact that they are now a "democratic" entity. It happens for all parties and yet I don't see Labour or FG or FF supporters ranting when they are under the microscope.

This is the real world and one into which Sinn Fein will have to grow up and stop regurgitating "policy" . Common sense and a brain cell in this case suggest this was really not the thing to say.

Sinn Fein still have the luxury of never being in Government anywhere. Although with that quality of candidate god help us all.

And to those who "feel the hurt" remember that no-one has a monopoly on suffering.

At the risk of repeating myself Sinn Fein WILL be a part of policing boards and sooner than expected and they should behave accordingly.

McClane

What relevance is this. The PSNI have changed from the RUC, complaints aganist them are dropping and they have the best ombudsman in the western world to investigate complaints.

Why the Republicans/Nationalists don't trust the PSNI is a political issue. I'm not defending Sinn Féin or peoples views. I'm simply stating them. The fact of the matter is that a large proportion of Repuclicans/Nationalists don't trust the PSNI any more thenthe RUC. This is a political matter which has little to do with the argument.

Probably the weakest thing ive ever heard for not giving information on rapists.

According to the article they said to give them the information and they'd pass it on. Your making a mountain out of a molehill and i'm no fan of Sinn Féin but to see how a lot of people just jump on them and twist facts to condemn them is pathetic.

Of course we can condemn people for with-holding information, the 'police are bad' is hardly a reason that will wash with any decent person.

I'm sure a lot of Irishmen went and reported crimes to the Black and Tans.

Whether you personally or anyone else here thinks that the Republican/Nationalists position on the PSNI is wrong or right is not the issue. Its their decision, they have to live with them.

I know alot of people who have no respect for the police, the day i defend them for refusing information on such a crime is the day hell will freeze over.

1. No one ever said withhold the information. You and others have bent the statement made by Sinn Féin to suit yourselves.

2. Refusing to give information here or in England is a very different situation to being afraid/not trusting the police in a newly established state that until very recently was a sectarian state and the police a sectarian police force.

I'm not going to go on because i have no like for Sinn Féin (Or politics) and i'm finding myself defending them and i don't like that.

I'm just going to say this, A large population of the people in the North don't/can't trust the Police. Its like asking a black man to trust the KKK, a jew to trust the SS (Godwin was a loser). These are, of course extreme examples of the same thing.

Whether or not you or i agree or disagree with their stance on the PSNI is not the question. They don't trust them and don't feel comfortable going to them so theres nothing wrong with going to someone else to relay the information. Up to very recently the IRA was their police force.

tomMK1

Earthman wrote:

I hope you are having fun with the sinn Féin defending...


In the meantime could I ask all contributers to address the topic and avoid the one line digs.

I was not defending rather simply stating the fact the Sinn Fein wont follow the PSNI or the policing board until th epatton report is implimented.

At least Im sticking to facts.

Mighty_Mouse

At the risk of repeating myself Sinn Fein WILL be a part of policing boards and sooner than expected .

I agree

and they should behave accordingly

an old unionist mindset. Republicans will be part of democratic institutions because they have a democratic right to be , not because anyone does or does not "let them". At the moment SF refusal to join the police board is throught their own choice. Not through exclusion. We would all hope the days of excluding democratically elected members of goverment from representing their consituents is gone.

By the way. When SF do agree to join the police authority it will be will the full expectation that they can achieve change. That they will be in a position to achieve change. Thats the difference between joining in the next few months and 5 years ago!!!

stevenmu

A poster claims that

SF had advised people not to go to the PSNI with information on the horrendous double-rape of a fifteen year old child

and then immediatly afterwards provides a quote describing it as

Sinn Fein's refusal to encourage the people of west Belfast to pass on information to the police

. How many people read this before jumping in with their preconcieved anti-SF propaganda ? Do people not see the difference here ? To me there's a huge difference between trying to cover up a horrible crime, which is what the OP and others are accusing them of, and just staying out of something that's none of their business. Do people expect Fianna Fail to get involved everytime there's a rape in the republic ? Why the hell would they, that's what police forces are for. People keep demanding SF stick to democratic means but guess what, in a true democracy, political parties don't interfere with criminal investigations !

mycroft

McClane wrote:

Why the Republicans/Nationalists don't trust the PSNI is a political issue. I'm not defending Sinn Féin or peoples views. I'm simply stating them. The fact of the matter is that a large proportion of Repuclicans/Nationalists don't trust the PSNI any more thenthe RUC. This is a political matter which has little to do with the argument.

yes it does, how exactly are the police going to gain their trust if SF run around trying to undermind their authority

According to the article they said to give them the information and they'd pass it on. Your making a mountain out of a molehill and i'm no fan of Sinn Féin

:rolleyes:

but to see how a lot of people just jump on them and twist facts to condemn them is pathetic.

And again convictions on rape cases are down to an all time low, how are the police supposed to react to second hand potentiall out dated info, and how gain they use it to garner a conviction.

Catch yourself on.

I'm sure a lot of Irishmen went and reported crimes to the Black and Tans.

Whether you personally or anyone else here thinks that the Republican/Nationalists position on the PSNI is wrong or right is not the issue. Its their decision, they have to live with them.

And that girl has to live with the fact that she's been raped.

I'm just going to say this, A large population of the people in the North don't/can't trust the Police. Its like asking a black man to trust the KKK, a jew to trust the SS (Godwin was a loser). These are, of course extreme examples of the same thing.

No they're not care to provide an example of the PSNI lynching someone, or rounding them up and putting them in concentration camps.

Whether or not you or i agree or disagree with their stance on the PSNI is not the question. They don't trust them and don't feel comfortable going to them so theres nothing wrong with going to someone else to relay the information. Up to very recently the IRA was their police force.

Ah well thanks okay then

is_that_so

Mighty_Mouse wrote:

an old unionist mindset.

My comments on expectations is merely expressing the mindset that there are expectations of people in public positions. The man in question clearly does not meet those standards given that he was incapable of commenting sensitively without spouting party policy.

Hydroquinone

stevenmu wrote:

People keep demanding SF stick to democratic means but guess what, in a true democracy, political parties don't interfere with criminal investigations !

If SF had kept their beaks shut about this particular criminal investigation, no one could accuse them of playing fast and loose with democratic means, though, could they?
In this case, they vastly overstepped the mark of what is expected of a purely political party, so, yes, I agree with you.

murphaph

I have to say, I thought this thread would die a quick death. I naively assumed that nobody would agree that SF were right to open their big mouths on this.

MrPudding

Mighty_Mouse wrote:

having a child, parent spouse murdered might put you off a little imo!

So are you saying that everyone that distrust the PSNI has has a child, parent or spouse murdered by them? I don't think so.

A lot of really bad stuff has happened in the north. What I love about threads like this is the SF supporters are telling everyone we need to forget the past and move on. You know, forget about the lads blowing up pubs and killing kids and what have you. Yet at the same time point blank refusing to put the RUC in the past.

I admit that the PSNI needs to earn the trust of some of the population in the North. At the same time some of the population needs to earn the trust of the PSNI. There are a lot of good people in the PSNI, I would even go so far as to say there were a lot of good people in the RUC and many of them got a really raw deal from sections of the NI population.

MrP

tomMK1

MrPudding wrote:

What I love about threads like this is the SF supporters are telling everyone we need to forget the past and move on. You know, forget about the lads blowing up pubs and killing kids and what have you. Yet at the same time point blank refusing to put the RUC in the past.

but the RUC/PSNI is still the same .. the IRA have promised to disarm and do legal things. if the time came where something was done about the PSNI and the policing issue in general, then I'd gladly forget about the RUC.

mycroft

tomMK1 wrote:

but the RUC/PSNI is still the same .. the IRA have promised to disarm and do legal things. if the time came where something was done about the PSNI and the policing issue in general, then I'd gladly forget about the RUC.

Prove evidence etc, there several examples of how the PSNI has changed from the RUC, your rebuttal could be summed up as "Nuh uh"