Faulty 1 week old Laptop-Who's responsible?

cormie

Hi,
Following on from this thread I think it's likely there is a hardware problem with my new laptop which I only bought about 1 week ago.

I emailed the retailer and got this response:

Sorry to hear about the sound problem. If it still persists you will have to call the Acer warranty/tech support line for a diagnosis with a technician. Then they will decide what action to take for you. The number is 0044-870-8531000

What are my rights in this case? Is there not a 28 day limit of which I can get a full refund if I have such problems? Is it up to me to be ringing the manufacturer at this early stage for a fault?

Yes, it would be allot easier if I could resolve it over the phone, but what if I can't?

I would like to know my rights before ringing an expensive number.

I don't have the best of luck do I? This is the third laptop I've got with the initial money I spent, one replacement and one refund

Any feedback appreciated, thanks.

maidhc

Cormie, you should be kept well away from laptops of every description. Buy a biro the next time

Seller is responsible, just like Aldi. And if it happens within a week you should have no obstances to rejecting the machine under the Sale of goods and Supply of Services Act, even if there is no magic 28days provided for in the contract of Sale. Dont ring Acer, its the retailers problem, it is never the manufacturers problem unless you want to go down the road of negligence, which you dont.

Reject the machine.

cormie

A biro!! Never thought of that;) haha.

It's so much hassle rejecting the machine though, that's why it took me 7 months to reject the Aldi one

But I'm in the rejecting mood now anyway. Would it not be more worth my while to try the number anyway or should I not go down that road at all?

What is the sales of services act exactly in relation to this? Where do I stand? Is there a 28 day time in which I am entitled to a full refund with this act? thanks:)

Mac daddy

Are you cursed you always seem to have problems with laptops - Are you sure its not you who is causing it

I would expect they could handle it as a DOA (dead on arrival ) If it within the first thirty days - check the warranty documentation.

cormie

Well it's really only a stutter in the sound, it's not dead. I must be cursed yup:(

But does the warranty dictate whether I am entitled to a refund within 30 days or not? Does the 30 day refund not refer to everything we buy in Ireland that is faulty or is it just on items which have a warranty?

blorg

You bought this at retail, right? Why don't you bring it in to MicroAid and ask them to have a look at it and see if they can stop the stuttering, and otherwise request a refund/exchange. This is after all the reason you were willing to spend more to get it in a 'bricks and mortar' store.

Ironically if you had bought it online, in the EU you have a 7 day period during which you can return it for any reason whatsoever (or none)...

John R

A warranty does not have any effect on the legal responsibilities of a retailer, the goods must be of merchandable quality and fit for the purpose they are intended for.

TBH warranties are meaningless marketing rubbish, they rarely go further than retailers are obliged by law to do and are more often than not used to bully consumers out of claiming their legal rights.

cormie

Yep, that's why I bought it in an Irish retail store alright, I want to be able to just walk in for a replacement if I need on and get it there and then. The thing is, MicroAid order it in specifically for each sale. What can I say to them? Order me a new one and I will be in with the old one tomorrow to replace it? Is it that simple and am I in my rights to request that? Does the 7 day EU return policy also apply for me in this case since Ireland is in the UK etc?

Thanks for all the feedback:)

blorg

The 7 day EU return policy only applies to distance selling, not to things you buy in a shop. I was suggesting that since you bought it at retail that you might be able to bring the laptop back to them, demonstrate the problem, and they might be able to come up with a fix there and then. It _could_ be a hardware problem but a software (fixable) problem is also possible - one way or the other they might be able to tell you if you brought it in to them.

cormie

Surely there is some law to help me out here though, surely I'm not stuck with a faulty laptop and my only options are to send it away for a week or two for repairs I've sent the following email to MicroAid anyway:

---

Dear MicroAid,
I have tried to contact the below number but it is busy. I am awaiting on a response through e-mail. I have heard their support is not the greatest so I do not hold out much hope of them being able to come up with a solution, especially since I have tried re-installing drivers and everything else. If I do not hear from them soon I will have to opt for a replacement which I could collect and return my old one to yourself as soon as you have it in stock. Hopefully the same problem will not be present on the replacement machine. I have decided to opt for a replacement rather than a refund as I like the laptop. Could you please let me know whether I can put the hard drive of this one into the replacement as I have set up Windows to my preferences and it will save me time if I can just swap hard drives.

Could you please also confirm whether the warranty covers the screen as the screen is the most expensive replacement part of a laptop so this is very important upon deciding to opt for the warranty.

---

They aren't exactly a big retail store, they operate out of a small building and I think there are only 2 of them working there. I doubt they would have much technical knowledge or be able to do anything and I don't fancy going in with it and have to leave it with them or anything. I want it either fixed or a replacement, I don't want to have to part with my laptop for more than a day at most. I'm sick of all this:( booo!

Thanks again for the help.

cormie

Hi again,
just off the phone to Acer, the man on the line said they could collect and return within 3 business days by sending out a courier as it's in its DOA period and I reported it within this time.

I asked him am I in my rights to get a refund from MicroAid and he said if I want to take that option I may.

To the above email I got the below response:

Hi Cormac

I'm afraid you have to call their warranty line as we are not authorised to take it back without an okay from Acer.

To reassure you, we have never had to take an Acer back as they will always sort out any rare little teething problems. Can you please bear with the call to their technical support? It may be only a minor issue but you need the notebook and serial number while they diagnose the problem.

If all comes to all I can try to get a technician to call you at a predetermined time.

So what exactly are my options if MicroAid say they can't take it back? Is that correct even? Am I not entitled to a full refund?

blorg

If Acer will swap the laptop for a replacement within 3 days, then I don't see why you wouldn't just go with that, it sounds like a very good solution to your problem. This does demonstrate however why there is very little advantage to buying retail instead of online...

EDIT: You may well have all sorts of 'rights' but if Acer will pick the thing up from you and courier you a new one within three days, while pushing your 'rights' with the retailer will entail physically going out to them, waiting god knows how long for them to get a new one, and then physically going out to them again, I don't understand why you don't just deal with Acer?

cormie

Well when I ordered the laptop it arrived at Microaid the next day, so they could have a replacement for me by Thursday and then I could just go out and swap with them. and not have to wait until what will probably be Monday without a system.

Am I in my rights to get a replacement from MicroAid do you know What about what they said and everything else?

stevenmu

You can find details on your rights at http://www.odca.ie, or more specifically for you case at http://www.odca.ie/cfmdocs/c_query/elect.cfm. Essentially your contract is with the seller, it is their responsibility to provide you with a working laptop in exchange for your cash. It's up to you to decide if you want to deal with the manufacturer or not. This only really kicks in though after the seller has ascertained that there is a fault with the laptop, and in the case of computers walking in and showing them the problem generally isn't enough. They'll want to take it in for testing and they'll probably send back to the manufacturer to verify that there's a problem before even agreeing to a replacement/refund so dealing directly with Acer could be the better bet.

Have you checked Acers site/forums or somewhere like www.notebookforums.com to see if other users have had similar problems ?


edit: You could also try googling "acer stuttering sound" and perhaps click on the top result

cormie

Thanks for the links.

I have emailed MicroAid and told them what Acer said and mentioned my contract is with them etc. Hopefully they will be able to have a replacement by Thursday, we will have to wait and see.

MarkR

You're lucky you contacted acer in time, i was just about to tell you to call them and log your fault asap. Did you notice this problem from the very start, or only after a while? Probably best to try a reinstall before sending it off, most manufacturers will test doa's, and you want to be very sure it's not a software problem, as this would not be likely to be covered by any warranty.

( I do this for sony. Don't hit me if you have a sony!)

blorg

stevenmu wrote:

They'll want to take it in for testing and they'll probably send back to the manufacturer to verify that there's a problem before even agreeing to a replacement/refund so dealing directly with Acer could be the better bet.

This has been my experience, if you insist on dealing with the retail shop they will generally act just as another delaying layer between yourself and the manufacturer.

However as stevenmu suggests, you might want to ascertain that it is not a software problem.

cormie

Thanks for the input

Do you think a software reinstall would do much though since I'd just be re-installing the same software?

blorg

cormie wrote:

Well when I ordered the laptop it arrived at Microaid the next day, so they could have a replacement for me by Thursday and then I could just go out and swap with them. and not have to wait until what will probably be Monday without a system.

Am I in my rights to get a replacement from MicroAid do you know What about what they said and everything else?

You are perfectly within your rights to deal with Microaid rather than Acer, but I don't think there is anything in the law that says that they have to replace your laptop by Thursday, or order in a new one for you before they get the old one back, that is the point! (Some may do in the name of customer service however.) Normal procedure with retail shops I have dealt with is that they accept the item back and send it back to the manufacturer who in turn repairs/replaces it. As such _if_ your aim is to get your laptop replaced as soon as possible, you are **better off** dealing directly with the manufacturer.

There may however be something that entitles you to a refund due to the fault appearing so soon, however, if you wanted to go down that route.

blorg

cormie wrote:

Thanks for the input

Do you think a software reinstall would do much though since I'd just be re-installing the same software?

Personally I would doubt it, _if_ the problem was there from the start. I'd turn to Google as steven suggests.

Nukem

God you have no luck. Dead sorry its sh!te it really is.
Its all their fault. Demand a new lappie and be done with it IMO - if you cant get it resolved easy.

Nukem

cormie

Thanks again for the help and suggestions.

I wrote the following email and got the following response from MicroAid. Is this all within reason of what I'm entitled too or are they trying on anything here?

Dear MicroAid,
I reached the tech support line and I was told that the laptop would have to be collected and brought to Acer for testing and repair. Please understand because of the nature of my requirements for this laptop it is very inconvenient for me to take this option. As my contract is with you, the retailer, could you please inform me what action must now be taken to replace the laptop or as a last resort, get a refund. If you need to contact acer about this, my case number is [removed]. They have it marked that the problem was reported within the DOA period. The most convenient thing for me would be if you could order a replacement tomorrow which would be available by Thursday and I could then travel out and exchange this for the new one.

Kind regards,

Reply

Hi Cormac,
Unfortunately we have to abide by Acers terms of the warranty. Please see Acer terms below in bold.

If Acer authorise us to issue a refund (in other words they issue us with an RMA to return the notebook to central distribution) then I can issue you with a full refund if you require it. Otherwise I have to work through the warranty repair terms. From past experience Acer are very good at doing this.

There is also no guarantee that your model would be available immediately anyway as they go out of stock all the time. It can take 7 to 10 days for back-orders to be processed.

I understand your frustration with the sound problem but if you allow Acer to work with you they will sort it out very quickly. Please do not hesitate to get back to me if you have any other questions.

Call the Acer Customer Contact Centre on 0870 853 1000 between the hours of 9:00am and 5:30pm Monday to Friday (excluding Public Holidays), within 5 days of purchase. Please ensure that you have the following information available as a minimum, before making the call. If this information is not available, then you may be asked to call back once it is. *Full Serial Number *Description *Date of Purchase *Proof of Purchase. The agent at Acer's Contact Centre will validate the request and will request that the Proof of Purchase to be supplied, a copy of the invoice is acceptable. Once the agent has verified that the product was an ‘out of box’ failure the Customer will be issued with a Call Reference Number/Case ID. Acer will then arrange for an urgent repair of the faulty unit, or a replacement to be sent out directly from them if a repair is not possible. Covered directly by Manufacturer 0870 853 1000.

It seems fair enough, just inconvenient for me. It seems like it would be easier to deal with Acer directly as was suggested already.

Suppose I'll do a fresh install before I give it back to them, I don't want them snooping in my files.

The thing is, this is the kind of problem which will come back and still remain in my machine as it's not even that obvious and they may say it's my imagination or something like that.

So do you think as long as I have the case ID marked down as DOA I can take my time to return it? I don't really want to be waiting over the weekend if I give it back today if I can give it back on Monday instead and only be without it for 2/3 days instead of 5 or so.

stevenmu

They've worded it badly, but the general idea is right. Where they say they have to wait for Acer to authorise a refund they really mean that they have to wait for Acer to verify that there is an issue with the laptop that warrants a refund or replacement. The time of 7-10 days they quote will probably be from the time Acer verify this, which means that when you give it to them, they'll send it back to Acer who'll test it and then there'll be a wait of 7-10 days for a replacement, so holding on to the laptop for a few days doesn't mean you'll be without one for any less time.

Have you tried the google search I suggested above, there was people with what sounded like the exact same problem and they've found a fix for it.

maidhc

Unfortunately another textbook example of a retailer using a warranty to try and snake out of their statutory obligations.

The Sale of Goods & Supply of Services Act (SOGA)) works by implying certain terms into a contract; that is to say they are there, even if you and the retailer didn't discuss them.

Section 10 of the SOGA provides (amending the 1893 SOGA, s 14)

(3) Goods are of merchantable quality if they are as fit for the purpose or purposes for which goods of that kind are commonly bought and as durable as it is reasonable to expect having regard to any description applied to them, the price (if relevant) and all the other relevant circumstances, and any reference in this Act to unmerchantable goods shall be construed accordingly.

and

(4) where the seller sells goods in the course of a business and the buyer, expressly or by implication, makes known to the seller any particular purpose for which the goods are being bought, there is an implied condition that the goods supplied under the contract are reasonably fit for that purpose, whether or not that is a purpose for which such goods are commonly supplied, except where the circumstances show that the buyer does not rely, or that it is unreasonable for him to rely, on the seller's skill or judgement.

This applies to the Seller, not the manufacturer or for that matter a one armed man. At the very least it is Microaids responsibility to find out from Acer if the machine is faulty or otherwise, not yours.

Finally in relation to the guarantee:

17.—(1) Where the seller of goods delivers a guarantee to the buyer, irrespective of when or how it is delivered, the seller shall be liable to the buyer for the observance of the terms of the guarantee as if he were the guarantor, unless he expressly indicates the contrary to the buyer at the time of delivery.

and

19.—(1) The buyer of goods may maintain an action against a manufacturer or other supplier who fails to observe any of the terms of the guarantee as if that manufacturer or supplier had sold the goods to the buyer and had committed a breach of warranty, and the court may order the manufacturer or supplier to take such action as may be necessary to observe the terms of the guarantee, or to pay damages to the buyer. In this subsection, "buyer" includes all persons who acquire title to the goods within the duration of the guarantee and, where goods are imported, "manufacturer" includes the importer.

Thus you have a right of action against either MicroAid or Acer. Your choice, not theirs. End of story. No reason for ringing england.

SOGA 1980: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1980_16.html

blorg

For gods sake, Microaid are not trying to "snake out of their statutory obligations." The law says that they are responsible. Sure. Point is, there is nothing in the law that says that they have to offer a walk-in instant replacement on the laptop without verifying that there is a problem. They know, as do most people who have experience dealing with computer warranties, that dealing directly with the manufacturer is likely to be quicker and more convenient for the customer, and that is why they suggest it. They do offer in the email to take the laptop back and sort out the replacement with Acer themselves, only point out that this will take longer! And by the way a three-day courier pickup and replacement to your door goes _way beyond_ "your rights" under the Sale of Goods Act.

I'd suggest searching on Google to see if you can fix the problem yourself, (simply because this might get the problem fixed for you quickest and with the least hassle, and because if you don't your replacement might have the same problem) and if you can't go directly with Acer's three-day courier return option. It shouldn't make any difference whether you do this now or after the weekend. Or get a refund, if that is what you prefer.

What's a phone call to England these days anyway? Something like 1.5-5c/min if you use a cheap operator.

paconnors

i remember in the good old days of compustore i bought a compaq presario 2254 and it was dead when i got home paid £999 at the time which was a lot of money, when i brought the computer back they had no 2254's in stock and the upgraded me free of charge to a computer that was on sale for £1399

blorg

mikegannon wrote:

i remember in the good old days of compustore i bought a compaq presario 2254 and it was dead when i got home paid £999 at the time which was a lot of money, when i brought the computer back they had no 2254's in stock and the upgraded me free of charge to a computer that was on sale for £1399

And I remember in the good old days of Compustore bringing a Presario back to them for them to lose and generally fsck around with for three weeks in their 'repair department' (which acutally just sent them back to Compaq) while dealing directly with Compaq resulted in a courier pick-up and repaired computer back in a few days.

maidhc

blorg wrote:

And by the way a three-day courier pickup and replacement to your door goes _way beyond_ "your rights" under the Sale of Goods Act.

The sale of good act allows you reject the machine and use the money to buy a new one.

So yes, they are trying to snake out of their statutory obligations by providing a lesser remedy!!!

Maybe there is nothing wrong with the computer. I know I bought a computer before and the modem drivers were wrong...

secret_squirrel

maidhc wrote:

(3) Goods are of merchantable quality if they are as fit for the purpose or purposes for which goods of that kind are commonly bought and as durable as it is reasonable to expect having regard to any description applied to them, the price (if relevant) and all the other relevant circumstances, and any reference in this Act to unmerchantable goods shall be construed accordingly.

I personally dont think it is as clear cut as you seem to think. A fairly trivial sound problem is debateable as to whether is it not fit for the purpose. To my mind its on the same level as a couple of dead pixels in an lcd.

Its a minor problem - probably software related. Since acer have already offered to send a courier to collect it I would take their offer. In the time you spend arguing with the retailer you could have a new one direct from Acer.

You have to ask yourself what will give you the most satisfaction making the retail face up to their (possibly debatable responsibilities) or getting the laptop fixed/replaced in as quick a time as possible.

blorg

maidhc wrote:

The sale of good act allows you reject the machine and use the money to buy a new one.

Um, yes, Microaid offered a full refund if they unit could be confirmed as faulty. Honestly, it appears to me here that both Microaid and Acer are providing better service than average in this industry, I would not be complaining in his situation!

smeggle

blorg wrote:

Um, yes, Microaid offered a full refund if they unit could be confirmed as faulty. Honestly, it appears to me here that both Microaid and Acer are providing better service than average in this industry, I would not be complaining in his situation!

Any business that does not honour there obligation in that way aren't worth jack IMHO. Case here is with the shop you bought it from or if there good operators they should accept responcibility, I know I would.

My answer would not have been - Hey, sorry to here that - heres the manufacturers number, so you can get it sorted out? Like right yeah - matey I've just paid you x amount and your basically telling me to go Fuuuuup meself?

I had an AMD unit I sold last Christmass - had problems with the sound because of the crap VIA chipset and needed a new driver for the fix. I contacted my suplliers tech support, not the client, got the necessary and called around to the clients house/ installed new driver and computer has been fine since. That was on Christmas eve last year.

btw Suspecting the same here with your laptop actually - driver issue? You say you have sound and it only stutters at times? There could be any number of reasons for this. What were you doing at the time? How many progs open? resources getting bogged down for some reason.
But if it's AMD with a bloody via chipset - check the driver/re-install it. Would be my first move. If it's pentium/intel chipset - then I'd definately suspect a hardware fault but still check the driver by re-installing it.

Back to your issue though - it makes no difference if it's a big store like Aldi or a 'Small Building'. There operating as a retail unit from that building and are therefore obliged by law to accomadate you, not the other way around. As stated there responcible and if they had any reputation they would accept that without any hassle and just replace/sort the Laptop for you.

cormie

Hi again,
thanks for the feedback:)

Smeggle, do you own a business that sell Laptops? What price could you give me for a similar spec laptop to mine?

Anyway,

I emailed MicroAid again:

Dear MicroAid,
I am going to do some research over the weekend and find out if there is a fix for my problem. If I can't find a solution I think I will just get back onto Acer as they offer a 3 business day collect and return service. I understand how it would take 7-10 days for you to do the same but if the problem cannot be resolved I will require a full refund.

Could you please find out for definite whether or not the extended Warranty covers screen damage. Also, what is the situation with the warranty since I have to send it back for repair so early? Have Acer been known to provide a free (or reduced) extended Warranty for such instances of customer upset?

I look forward to your reply.

I will have a look through that thread from the google results (it's massive ) I had a brief scan but I think their problems aren't the same as mine.

To try and give a better idea of the actual problem, I recorded audio playback from my laptop audio outlet direct to an MP3 player I have with a recorder. I then put the mp3 back onto my pc and uploaded it here

I sent the above email at 13.30 and got a reply at 13.36 (it's taking me ages to write this out {phone call} so I got it in the middle of typing all this)

Dear Cormac

I will find out now about the extended warranty as to whether it covers screen damage. I feel confident it does. However it's best to check it out for definite.

I will do something for you on the price of the 3 year extended warranty. It may be small but I will do my best for you. Leave it with me please.

Regards,

The service from MicroAid has been great, he responds to emails very promptly and the price was also very competitive. And as said above, he will try and do something about a reduction in extended warranty cost.

It's just a shame there is a problem with the laptop.

I understand why they must send it back to Acer to confirm the fault as I could be just pretending (for example, I would have liked a higher res screen, this one is only 1280x800). I think the procedure is fair enough, yes, Acer do pay for pickup and return which is fine.

Should I really expect more?

blorg

I think you are getting a generally good deal, many online retailers would expect you to pay the cost of the return postage (this is the standard, although not necessarily with laptops, pickup at manufacturers expense is common enough for those if you deal directly with the manufacturer.)

I can understand why you are annoyed, it is a new laptop after all, but as you say I do think the service from Microaid is very good here. (I had a Sony that had problems from delivery, went back and forth around five times and Sony had the machine for around **six to nine months** in total...)

cormie

That's crazy alright. It's hardly MicroAids fault either, they handed me the box with un tainted seals put on from Acer saying "Check contents if seal broken".

Just out of curiousity, how would I go about finding out who supplies MicroAid and would there be any chance of me going direct to them in the future instead of having the Middle Man (MicroAid) and save a bit? Because MicroAid ordered it from wherever they ordered it from the day I rang up and had to wait till the next day for them to get it in for me to pick up.

secret_squirrel

If they are an acer authorised reseller - I would assume they get them direct from Acer. If they arent then they will be getting then from one of the big authorised acer distributors, who may only sell to trade in trade quantaties.

cormie

Hmm, I wonder, 1 isn't exactly large quantities unless they have a quota to reach of some sort.

heggie

they probably get them from somewhere like sharptext or clarity, which you as a consumer could not deal with.

blorg

This is a good reason why it is generally better to buy direct online (e.g. acernotebooks.co.uk), you don't really gain anything from buying from a retail shop.

cormie

Yeah, lesson learned I suppose. Could have saved €80

Although if Aldi were selling it and I had to pay an extra €80, I definitely would with their returns policy. They basically don't have a policy