'00 BMW 530d

AlanD

Hi all...

what are your opinions on the last series 530d from BMW? I've found one well spec'd with xenon's, cruise, auto, climate, m-pack with reasonable miles.

Are they fast?
Do they give trouble?
Will I get 30mpg out of it?

It's got a full service history too which I assume is important.

So what do you think?

kdevitt

Great car - you'll get closer to 40mpg I'd imagine, very fast, no trouble I've heard of, sounds well spec'd alright...I love the sports kit, go for it

ds20prefecture

"Are they fast?"
It's about 200bhp in a 1.5t car. I doubt that it feels slow, but it's no redline screamer either. More a mile-muncher extraordinaire.

"Do they give trouble?" - not really. Make sure it has been well serviced. Beware any high mileage turbo charged car - this would be expensive to replace. Are you buying with a warranty?

"Will I get 30mpg out of it?" - easily on the open road. With a light foot around traffic I would say so.

"So what do you think?" You neglected to mention the price.....

If it is reasonable you will struggle to find a better all-round car.

AlanD

price? €26k which seems pretty good given the spec and the 60-odd on the clock.

I'm sure the price is somewhat negotiable. Doubt it would come with a warranty, but it wouldn't be a half bad idea to use that as a bargaining tool and go to BMW to buy an off the shelf warranty, if possible. I know it's possible with other car makes.

I know servicing with a BMW dealer would be pricey too.

I'm very tempted, I just need to convince the wife that it's a must have.

bbability

That's a ball park figure for that car with that mileage. I drove a 00 530d in June for the first time. What a car It was fully loaded too. Drove it down the M1 and by jaysus was I moving. You'll never understand a car like that until you actually drive one for yourself. You know the way this type of car overtakes you at light speed. They are built for eating roads. My friend's old man who was lucky enough to buy it got it for €15k. The reason.... the bloke he bought it off has his own company and knows him for years. He was trading up to a brand new 730D. BMW only offered him 15 on the trade in.

unkel

AlanD wrote:

price? €26k which seems pretty good given the spec and the 60-odd on the clock

Fine car. €26k for a 5 or 5 and a half year old 530d is still a lot of money. Make no mistake, if you keep it for say 3 years, you will not get more than ballpark €10k for it. So we are talking more than €5k per annum in depreciation only. That's a lot!

What's your mileage? Do you really need to go diesel? A '00 523i with extras would not be much more than half that price. Think about it...

lomb

unkel wrote:

Fine car. €26k for a 5 or 5 and a half year old 530d is still a lot of money. Make no mistake, if you keep it for say 3 years, you will not get more than ballpark €10k for it. So we are talking more than €5k per annum in depreciation only. That's a lot!

What's your mileage? Do you really need to go diesel? A '00 523i with extras would not be much more than half that price. Think about it...

unkels right, its too dear for a nearly 6 year old car, any saving on diesel will be wiped out several times by the insane depreciation that u will suffer.

AlanD

interesting comments lads, thanks very much. I do a fair amount of driving and do need a diesel. I have it pretty accurately worked out. However, if a petrol car could be got cheap enough to offset the cost of extra fuel, it'd make sense too.

The plan is to buy and keep for one year only. Sort of a get it out of my system purchase until something newer comes along. We need a new car and it needs to be diesel. So top of the list was the new Passat, but given that you'll pay €32k or so for a miserable 1.9 tdi engine and some nice spec, I wouldn't give VW the pleasure of taking my money. Next on the list is the new Laguna which is very well specced with a nice engine for €28.5k. If I could get one, a 2.0D new style S40 would be up there too. So since, I'm ruling out the passat, the laguna is the most affordable, but I'm a bit apprehensive. I don't want to spend close to 30 grand on a car for it to break down. Although I'm sure Laguna's are more reliable these days.

So the plan is, and I know it's a bit hair-brained, pick up something like a 530d, which I'd love, and keep it for a year to trade in against a 2.0 tdi passat if one was available second hand. The big depreciation on the 530d would be a worry though. I'd hardly drop €5k in just one year would I? I understand over 3 years you'd have the equivalent of €5k a year depreciation.

Thing is, I'd need to go drive one to see if I want one at all, but I've tailed a few and found them impossible to keep up with. The power seems amazing.

Oh and on further discussion with the seller, I'd get it for €24,500 which is a bit better.

Thumper Long

if you think the depreciation on the BMW is heavy, dont even ponder the thought of a Laguna its residual values are atrocious

SouperComputer

hmm what about an Octavia TDi?

AlanD

oh tell me about it, but then I don't want to hand over money to those over pricing VW folks for a car that's not really worth it. Although where it would be worth it would be in resale value. I'm still not paying over 30 grand though for a 105bhp 1.9 tdi engine.

AlanD

SouperComputer wrote:

hmm what about an Octavia TDi?

sorry, should have mentioned that one. Drove the 1.9 tdi with DSG and thought it was amazing. Drove the 2.0 tdi and thought it was amazing too. Loads of power. But the seats are not comfortable at all, so it was relegated to the bottom of the list which is a pity.

lomb

what about a s320cdi say a 99 one, u could have one in from the uk for i reakon 31-33000 euro inc VRT, thats really a hundred grand car.

also DAVEG has a 2000 audi a4 1.9d (the 90 bhp one) for 10500 for sale this week, u may b able to get him down to 10250 if u pm him today

Bluehair

The Octavia while a damn fine car just doesn't come close to the Skoda Superb.

The tdi would be in your ballpark too (new at around 28k?), take one for a test drive and be ready to be surprised.

css

Alan you also gotta factor in the extra road tax, you're gonna pay up on 800 extra p.a. for the 530d, having said that it is a damn fine motor.. Worth looking into the S-class if you're into a luxobarge too though.. It's another fine cruiser..

Guys, he's looking at a 3L diesel, so stop mentioning those puny 1.9 p!sspots.. They aren't even in the dugout never mind the playing field with the bigger diesels..

AlanD

lomb wrote:

what about a s320cdi say a 99 one, u could have one in from the uk for i reakon 31-33000 euro inc VRT, thats really a hundred grand car.

also DAVEG has a 2000 audi a4 1.9d (the 90 bhp one) for 10500 for sale this week, u may b able to get him down to 10250 if u pm him today

No to both....

as for the Superb, I drove a highly specced 1.9 tdi 130 bhp with tiptronic gearbox. Loved it. Gearbox was poor enough though. But yeah twas a nice car. Loads of room in it. Wife doesn't like the interior though

AlanD

css wrote:

Alan you also gotta factor in the extra road tax, you're gonna pay up on 800 extra p.a. for the 530d, having said that it is a damn fine motor.. Worth looking into the S-class if you're into a luxobarge too though.. It's another fine cruiser..

Guys, he's looking at a 3L diesel, so stop mentioning those puny 1.9 p!sspots.. They aren't even in the dugout never mind the playing field with the bigger diesels..

I've factored in the extra road tax alright and since I plan on only keeping it for a year, I don't mind that cost. As I said, I'd trade it in after a year for something newer and more sensible I'm not necessarily looking for a 3.0 litre diesel though. That 530d caught my eye cos I love the last 5 series with the M-tech body kit. I love the sound of that 3.0 diesel too. So it's just this specific car I'm interested in for now. The S320....I'm too young for it.

The way I look at it, if I paid 24k for it today, 12 months down the road with an extra 20k on the clock, I'd probably get 20k for it. If I buy a new car, I'd take that hit anyway and I'd prefer to buy a passat with the 2.0 tdi engine or an S40 with the 2.0 diesel engine. It's definitely risky I know. But I'm sure the pleasure of the car would far outweight the pain of the cost!

css

Why not just buy it and drive it!! feic it.. why the 1 year btw??

AlanD

css wrote:

Why not just buy it and drive it!! feic it.. why the 1 year btw??

see note above. Need new car now, but not interested in what's available in my price range now. So I'm thinking of buying this for now until something better comes along. Who knows, I may not get rid after 1 year.

Driving it will be the key. Noone has come up with bad stories about them (apart from depreciation).

HashSlinging

A remapped 1.9Tdi 150bhp is more powerful than the 3.0D in the '00 5 series.

Here are the stats :-

bmw 530d
184 PS 390 NM

Remapped 1.9Tdi 150bhp

182 PS 425 NM

css

Which is more likely to blow up i wonder? :rolleyes:

If you're gonna remap something I'd prefer a remapped 3.0 than a puny 1.9..

ds20prefecture

Bluehair wrote:

The Octavia while a damn fine car just doesn't come close to the Skoda Superb.

The tdi would be in your ballpark too (new at around 28k?), take one for a test drive and be ready to be surprised.

New Octavia renders current model Superb obsolete. Nicer inside, as much legroom, better engines, less money.

HashSlinging

Ehh the BMW will blow up. They don’t remap well. I know of a heavily tuned 150 with 200k miles on the clock, no problems and the engine is operating well within its capacity.. next?

michaelanthony

The 530d will return ~29 mpg for normal driving. It's a very heavy car and has a drink problem if you drive it hard.

css

HashSlinging wrote:

Ehh the BMW will blow up. They don’t remap well. I know of a heavily tuned 150 with 200k miles on the clock, no problems and the engine is operating well within its capacity.. next?

You are comparing a 5 series (mid range exec car) to a mass produced car that's built to be as cheap as possible. No comparison when it comes to comfort.

Incidentally you can remap that 530d to 220bhp/500Nm, if that's your fancy. You might as well buy the engine to do the job, than wasting money on stupid remaps that'll leave the road behind you like a WW1 battlefield..

kdevitt

The 530d got a revised engine in March 2000 - 193BHP and 410 NM as standard, and a combined 39MPG - I've never read anywhere of one returning anywhere near under 30MPG. Its lardy enough at 1700kg but will still hit 60 as quick or quicker than most hot hatches.

As css said, you might as well buy the engine to do the job, but if chipping is your thing a tuning Box for €600 or so will free up 39BHP and 80NM, without blowing the car up. The ones that blow up after a remap must be specific to this forum...

unkel

AlanD wrote:

I'd hardly drop €5k in just one year would I? I understand over 3 years you'd have the equivalent of €5k a year depreciation

LOL, depreciation per annum in absolute terms (in €xk) is always lower any year the car is older. So if you accept the depreciation over 3 years is €15k, the distribution is not €5k, €5k, €5k (for first, second and third year) but more likely something like €7k, €5k, €3k

unkel

Oh and HashSlinging, don't loose the run of yourself there comparing your (no doubt fine and very tuneable) car to a BMW 530d

AlanD

unkel wrote:

LOL, depreciation per annum in absolute terms (in €xk) is always lower any year the car is older. So if you accept the depreciation over 3 years is €15k, the distribution is not €5k, €5k, €5k (for first, second and third year) but more likely something like €7k, €5k, €3k

Oh I understand that alright, I know it's not an absolute figure, I was trying to fit in with someone else point. I've been watching the depreciation of 530d's over the past couple of years and it really hasn't been that serious. €2k per year or so. Do you really think that if I bought that 530d now, it could drop €7k in 1 year? Personally I don't think so, but I could be wrong of course. But I do understand what you mean when you break it out like that, depreciation levels off or reduces the older the car gets.

Also, I'm not in to tuning so I wouldn't even consider it.

unkel

AlanD wrote:

I've been watching the depreciation of 530d's over the past couple of years and it really hasn't been that serious

So have I and I agree with you. The one thing that is going to be different now is the age though. It was introduced here in '99 and in a few months time that will be considered 7 years old. This is older than most people would consider buying a car. It has nothing to do with the quality of the car, just peoples behaviour. Hard to flock a 100k+ miles car in this country too

AlanD wrote:

Do you really think that if I bought that 530d now, it could drop €7k in 1 year?

Yes I do if you pay €26k for it. Depreciation on the older models ('99 and '00) will be harsh and steep for a couple of years

AlanD

unkel wrote:

So have I and I agree with you. The one thing that is going to be different now is the age though. It was introduced here in '99 and in a few months time that will be considered 7 years old.

This is true. One thing strikes me though is that for some reason BMW prices in this country for cars like this stay very high for longer than expected. I've rarely seen them plummet unless they were wheezy petrol models with rubbish small engines.

unkel wrote:

Hard to flock a 100k+ miles car in this country too

This particular car has 60k on the clock which isn't too bad. I'd only be looking to put another 20k on it and then selling it on. So I'd have no intention running it to 100k.

unkel wrote:

Yes I do if you pay €26k for it. Depreciation on the older models ('99 and '00) will be harsh and steep for a couple of years

I know what you mean. If I could get a '01 or '02 for close to that price I'd be better off. But I figure I could get this one for about €24k or less. He's offered €24,500 already which is a lot better. If I could get it for €23,750 I'd be happy.

I'll just have to drive one and see first though. Someone mentioned 29mpg? That's pretty poor. I remember alright when that engine upgrade came in for 2000 so I would presume that the engine would be more efficient. Any comments from actual owners?

css

Alan check out the spec on UK models, you'll get a tastey spec 530d over there for a good bit cheaper than here.. I'm talking 10k STG, which will be about 20k when you bring it back... fully loaded too.. worth checking out autotrader.co.uk for prices to get an indication.. that might help with the depreciation hit.

Don't forget it's a 3L engine, so it's not gonna be that easy to shift.. Also the age will affect it. Personally buying a 530d as a 1 year investment is a bad idea imho, it's just not saleable enough.... So buy it as a longer term investment!! You know you'd love it!!

AlanD

css wrote:

Alan check out the spec on UK models, you'll get a tastey spec 530d over there for a good bit cheaper than here.. I'm talking 10k STG, which will be about 20k when you bring it back... fully loaded too.. worth checking out autotrader.co.uk for prices to get an indication.. that might help with the depreciation hit.

I've been looking for UK cars all morning. They are not cheap! For example, a '02 with 88k on the clock is still almost stg£14k. I would not be interested in it unless it had the m-tech body kit or auto gearbox. It seems the UK may not be the cheapest place to go, although I'll stay looking. I'm not in any serious rush!

So buy it as a longer term investment!! You know you'd love it!!

It's a distinct possibility that the car could be kept longer than a year. If we love we'd find it hard to sell. If it's drinking diesel we'll just offload it quicker.

unkel

AlanD wrote:

This is true. One thing strikes me though is that for some reason BMW prices in this country for cars like this stay very high for longer than expected

Yes but much more so for the 530d than any other BMW

AlanD wrote:

If I could get a '01 or '02 for close to that price I'd be better off

Especially the '02 one. Might be a wiser choice

AlanD wrote:

Any comments from actual owners?

There are a few owners around here alright. Do a search and PM them asking for their experience / advice

ds20prefecture

AlanD wrote:

If it's drinking diesel we'll just offload it quicker.

Just an observation - you seem unusually sensitive to the expected fuel economy.

Assuming €1.10 per litre for diesel and 20,000 miles at an average of 30mpg, you're looking at a fuel bill of €3300 for the year.

At, say, 25mpg you'd be talking about €3960.

€660 of a difference is hardly a deal breaker when you're paying 1100 in tax and 5000 in depreciation. With a 2.2L 520i you would off-set the difference in fuel costs with the saving in tax (and a lower purchase price). OK, it's not quite as powerful as the 530d but it is a lot smoother.

kdevitt

Wheres 30mpg for a 530d coming from?? I average 31 MPG in a 328ci...and it gets driven hard enough. The 530d is obviously far more economical. I spoke to someone who averaged 35mpg in one around the Nordschliefe...so I'd imagine you'd struggle to do worse in normal driving conditions - unless you do the M50 commute daily

AlanD

ds20prefecture wrote:

Just an observation - you seem unusually sensitive to the expected fuel economy.

€660 of a difference is hardly a deal breaker when you're paying 1100 in tax and 5000 in depreciation. With a 2.2L 520i you would off-set the difference in fuel costs with the saving in tax (and a lower purchase price). OK, it's not quite as powerful as the 530d but it is a lot smoother.

You are absolutely right ds20......I have taken in to account the extra fuel it would take and I've been working on an average 30mpg like you have calculated. So you are right, it's not a deal breaker to pay an extra 600-800 in fuel per year. However, if it was returning less than 30mpg I might have a small problem with it. All my driving is 100km/h stuff so I don't see that as being a problem.

I've actually looked at the 520's but can't find one with m-tech kit that's cheap enough to offset the extra cost of fuel! I'll be looking for both anyway. The 530d is more appealing for what it is though.

lomb

u will lose more like 7-8000 on that car, after 1 year and 20000 miles. no one in the ' proper' trade touches used cars over 60k miles. unkel is right in the regard of depreciation. fuel costs are irrelevent when u are hemoraging 8000 a year in depreciation.
if u want a way nicer car thats not going to lose much in 1 year and will be overall cheaper to run than a 530 have a look at this http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=275940

u really arent going to save anything buying a 530d.

AlanD

lots of great info above guys. I'm a slight bit concerned about the depreciation some of you think there'll be in the first year, and other years after that. I'm not fully buying it. If it's going to drop 7k in the next year then it's priced too high right now as it is and maybe that's your point.

Lots food for thought though.

Anyone got any other opinions on depreciation?

As for the Jag? I'm probably a bit too young! haha.....

css

To be honest you'd be better off getting a 320d if you wanna beat the depreciation.. the 3L engine is always gonna take a big hit..

AlanD

css wrote:

To be honest you'd be better off getting a 320d if you wanna beat the depreciation.. the 3L engine is always gonna take a big hit..

it's also on my shopping list but they are all so miserably specced and not all have that nice 150bhp engine that I'd see it as a complete waste of money having one unless it had lots of toys.

HashSlinging

css wrote:

You are comparing a 5 series (mid range exec car) to a mass produced car that's built to be as cheap as possible. No comparison when it comes to comfort.

Incidentally you can remap that 530d to 220bhp/500Nm, if that's your fancy. You might as well buy the engine to do the job, than wasting money on stupid remaps that'll leave the road behind you like a WW1 battlefield..

Well the golf PD 150 is within the guys price range and it has the same power as the 530D when chipped, he did pass a comment of how fast they are, the golf is a lighter car so in fact would be faster still. From a tax, depreciation, and fuel consumption point of view the 1.9Tdi is a better buy. He'll also be able to buy an '02 or an '03 for that money, provided he finds one. Also your comment about the golf being built as cheap as possible compared to a BMW doesn’t make much sense, do you think BMW produce the 5 series to make a loss? of course not, they are going to make the car the cheapest acceptable way. Its basic economics.

ds20prefecture

css wrote:

You are comparing a 5 series (mid range exec car) to a mass produced car that's built to be as cheap as possible. No comparison when it comes to comfort.

I get a little depressed when people buy into the marketing line instead of the product - i.e. they buy a "premium exclusive executive" car instead of a 530d.

The 5 series, like all BMWs, is a mass produced car. The idea that a Golf is "as cheap as possible" is frankly laughable. The Octavia is the same car as the Golf, yet roughly 3000 cheaper when new. THAT might be as "cheap as possible" .

The "executive" handle you use to distinguish the 5 from the Golf is pure image - it has nothing to do with the engineering or quality of the car, e.g. Mercedes and Lexus both mass produce "executive" cars but of very different quality.

Comfort also has nothing to do with the volume or cost of manufacture. It is determined by the level of equipment, the firmness of the ride, the smoothness of the engine, the amount of sound deadening and the amount of space in the cabin. Both 5 series and Golf score highly in this regard - the Golf being generally accepted to have the nicer interior.

What does distinguish the 5 over the Golf is how the car drives - the suspension setup is regarded as among the best compromise between ride and handling in the it excels at both. The steering is direct and without interference from the drivetrain. The car has been engineered to handle well with much more powerful drivetrains than the 3.0 diesel, and so it never feels flustered in the application of power.

The Golf was engineered to be a front wheel drive family hatchback with one or two powerful variants. The diesel provides a surfeit of torque through the same wheels that are being used to steer the car. In normal tune, it does this very well. Most people who tune their cars to meet some nominal BHP figure fail to account for the extra power in the rest of the car - i.e. brakes, suspension, wheels, etc. 200bhp is above the limit of what the Mk IV Golf should have. The previous standard 5 was sold up to 300bhp from the factory.

It is generally pointless comparing a VW Golf to a 530d, however the original poster seemed to cast a fairly wide net - it seems he's looking for a fast diesel 4 door car. It also seems that he's decided that the 5 is the one he wants so the argument is moot.

css

ds20prefecture wrote:

The "executive" handle you use to distinguish the 5 from the Golf is pure image - it has nothing to do with the engineering or quality of the car, e.g. Mercedes and Lexus both mass produce "executive" cars but of very different quality.

I guess what I was getting at is you are comparing a dolphin to a whale. The Golf is a small car, the 5 series isn't. Try putting 5 grown adults in that golf and see how comfortable they are, put the same 5 people in a 5 series and see which they prefer. There's more to a car than simple BHP/torque figures is what I was trying to say!

AlanD

css wrote:

I guess what I was getting at is you are comparing a dolphin to a whale. The Golf is a small car, the 5 series isn't. Try putting 5 grown adults in that golf and see how comfortable they are, put the same 5 people in a 5 series and see which they prefer. There's more to a car than simple BHP/torque figures is what I was trying to say!

I totally agree with your last 2 posts. Excellent points. You just can't compare a golf to a 5 series. They are cater for different needs and whether one can be just as fast as the other is not the point. I'm not going to buy a golf, old or new. I need a boot, space in the back, power, comfort and a bit of fun thrown in there. The 530d probably caters for all of that. I've almost never heard a bad thing said about them which is why I'm considering one now, depreciation or not. Pricewise, the alternative is a Passat with a misrable 1.9 tdi engine or a very well specced Laguna with a nice engine but that might break down. I'm looking to fill a gap until someone buys a passat with the 2.0 tdi engine for me this year and trades it in next year, then I'll pounce. The 530d might just fill that gap.

That one I was talking about is sold already.....with all my faffing about. Everything else is too dear, too many miles, rubbish spec or all of the above, so perhaps that car was good value after all.

css

You know what you want and have time on your side, (or do you!).. so it's worth waiting for the right motor.. Just make sure it has full bmwsh that will matter on resale..

Seth Brundle

Go for the 530d!
Incidentally here is a link to a 2002 owners manual to peruse until you get your own.

AlanD

css wrote:

You know what you want and have time on your side, (or do you!).. so it's worth waiting for the right motor.. Just make sure it has full bmwsh that will matter on resale..

I have time alright, I'll hang on until something comes up with the right spec, miles, etc. A full BMW S.H. is a must alright. Too many people don't take good enough care of their car's engine.

And some car porn from kbannon? fair play!

HashSlinging

good look with your choice, i'll be looking for one next year (530D), and theres been a fair few good points for them here. So when you do get it let me know what you think and if it lives up to expectations.

to CSS your right theres no comparison to a golf when any 5 series is sitting beside it, whatever model, saying that Golf aint bad though, but I'd never buy one. Even with an engine out of a 530D.

PlayaFlow

bbability wrote:

That's a ball park figure for that car with that mileage. I drove a 00 530d in June for the first time. What a car It was fully loaded too. Drove it down the M1 and by jaysus was I moving. You'll never understand a car like that until you actually drive one for yourself. You know the way this type of car overtakes you at light speed. They are built for eating roads. My friend's old man who was lucky enough to buy it got it for €15k. The reason.... the bloke he bought it off has his own company and knows him for years. He was trading up to a brand new 730D. BMW only offered him 15 on the trade in.

I know exactly what you mean! you really have to drive a car like that to appreciate it , my dad just got a merc C270 Cdi , before i drove that i used to hate diesels , but the torque and the way it just flows so effortlessly on the motorway is excellent.
I would assume is the same story with the beemer.

kevodaly

alan - i've a grand toyota corolla for ya. could let it go for say 4500.
tis cheap to tax and insure and will go forever.

you'd save 20k on the cost, about 800 on tax, more on fuel

basically i'd be giving you 21,000 euros.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=273399