Why are 99% of ISPCA/DSPCA A-holes?

doctor evil

Not every single animal can be saved (I`m not just talking about those that are sick/injured/old). I would prefer animals to be put down rather than live in a shelter that does not have enough funds to correctly care for the animals due to the sheer number.

Sigma Force

If the public neuterd and spayed their pets, kept them secure and stopped over breeding them for money without checking out their new homes etc then there wouldn't be so many animals in rescue or in pounds.

There is no excuse for rudeness but by god is it tempting sometimes when you see the kind of cruelty that goes on, when there are days and days of nothing but negativity the only light at the end of the tunnel is when you see an animal rehomed to a decent home.
If I was working in dog or cat rescue within the space of a few months I would of given up on the human race.

It's up to the public to take responsibility for their animals not a rescues.
Rescues are there to provide help to animals that most need it but cannot save them all.

Animal welfare laws need to be changed, public need to take responsibility for their pets, rescues and the public need to work together and help each other out if anything is going to change.
If someone has a problem with an individual rescue they should contact that rescue and speak face to face with them.

Instead of giving out, mabey there is something people can do to help, as someone said to me when I first got into this malarky, if you think you can do a better job then go right ahead off you go and do the work we do. Harsh words I thought at the time but now I realise how true they were.

Not saying all rescue organisations are perfect but I have come across more good than bad big time.

Thousands of dogs are destroyed in the pounds each year, the problem seems to be getting worse, not the fault of rescues it's the fault of the public not taking care of their animals. Many rescues have a no kill policy but you have to consider the quality of an animals life also, would it be better for a dog to life in cramped conditions with little contact because of overcrowding or is it better to try and save as many as you can but have a set number on how many animals you can take in at one time.
There's only so much money to go around and only so much help foster wise etc. not all animals can be saved.

Shewhomustbe...

gillianbird, I appreciate you taking the time to reply.
I also appreciate the stress of seeing cruelty cases and how this would affect the staff, however it does not excuse bad manners. (I am curious as to whether you offer or insist that staff/volunteers have counselling to cope with this)

How long do you think a business would last if most of the customers were greeted by rudeness and indifference. All my jobs have involved dealing with the public so I know exactly what it's like to have to smile through gritted teeth but I would never be rude because just like they don't know what my days been like I don't what has happened during theirs, and if you can't do that you shouldn't have a job that has you dealing with people.

Of course you don't want people misinformed and new owners need to be vetted but volunteers knowing and giving a simple explanation of this would clear up anyone else experiencing what DaveMcG did.

This thread arose from me ringing for information about getting a mother and kittens spayed/neutered and being greeted with indifference.
I saw a problem and decided instead of ignoring it I would be responsible instead, I now have three additional mouths to feed because of it and cannot afford the vet fees of having them all fixed. The person made me feel as if I was a scrounger because I was looking for help. I am not looking forward to having to go through that again and have been putting off going for the vouchers because of it.

I wholeheartedly agree ALL rescues are fighting a difficult battle and absolutely agree with Guineapigrescue that the law needs to be changed, and would do what I can to try and make that happen.

aare

Guineapigrescue wrote:

Animal welfare laws need to be changed, public need to take responsibility for their pets, rescues and the public need to work together and help each other out if anything is going to change.

The Law also needs to be changed to regulate rescues and make them accountable, to the Dept of Environment (that is nice enough to give a lot of them money every New Year) NOT any SPCA.

Because at this moment in time, too many rescues consider themselves to be a self appointed law unto themselves.

Guineapigrescue wrote:

If someone has a problem with an individual rescue they should contact that rescue and speak face to face with them.

And in real terms, just exactly how far is THAT going to get you?

Any direct challenge to the individuals concerned gets you no further than the nearest coverup. Nothing changes.

Guineapigrescue wrote:

Thousands of dogs are destroyed in the pounds each year, the problem seems to be getting worse, not the fault of rescues it's the fault of the public not taking care of their animals.

Don't you think that the informal policy of making rescue dogs as expensive and inaccessible as possible (as they are in some parts of the US with "reputable" rescues demanding $350 and more per dog) and discouraging people from approaching the pounds directly to adopt unwanted dogs exacerbates the problem?

Do you think being so rude, dysfunctional, abusive and, in a few cases, ruthlessly avaricious, to the good people who do genuinely love animals that those good people tend to feel further contact with animal rescuers will make them give up on the human race, helps solve the problem at all?

peasant

This infighting is ridiculous ...

GPR is perfectly right:

Animal welfare laws need to be changed, public need to take responsibility for their pets, rescues and the public need to work together and help each other out if anything is going to change.

To fundamentally change a whole society's attitude towards animals, to treat animals with the respect and care that they deserve, takes a huge, concentrated effort by all involved.

But people are people it seems ...caught within their own limited little horizons, much happier at pointing fingers than doing something ...or worse, pointing the finger at those who are doing something ...or worst, pointing the finger at others that are also doing something, but differently.

This to me shows an underlying problem of our society ...the lack of respect for each other.

And if we can't even respect our own kind ...how does anyone seriously expect "mere animals" to be treated with the respect that they deserve?


I know, this all sounds very "moral" and "wouldn't it be nice-theoretical" and I can hear everybody mumbling "yeah, right, peasant ...get real" but as long as people can't even change their own attitude and general outlook on life, I have very little hope for "the law" or "society" or "we/us" to "take care" of things any time soon ...

my 0.02 Euro

aare

peasant wrote:

But people are people it seems ...caught within their own limited little horizons, much happier at pointing fingers than doing something ...or worse, pointing the finger at those who are doing something ...or worst, pointing the finger at others that are also doing something, but differently.

Actually Peasant, the above would be a fairly accurate summary of the most common attitudes and behaviors of "Animal Rescuers" in Ireland in my experience, and I am afraid I could not find a way to respect THAT at gunpoint, and I do not think I should try to.

But you are, of course, entitled to hold your own opinion.

FranknFurter

I have a *lot* of animal welfare experience, and from what I have seen over the years, a disturbingly large amount of people who run these organisations are not the most endearing of people when it comes to interacting with human beings.

There are a few people out there, who know what these people and places are like because they put in the effort to get involved.
A *lot* of these people are so dumbfounded by these particular orgs that they run screaming, (usually with a few rescuees under each arm) once they realise whats really going on. (Yes, it can be THAT disturbing!)

There are *definitely* some of these places that do much more harm than good, I can name 3 in the greater dublin area, and its outskirts, straight off the top of my head, that take on much more than they can cope with, keep the dogs in horrible conditions so they can bitch about "not having enough funding"..... problem is, often, they get more funding, and funnilly enough, change nothing.

There are a few Genuine people however, (and at least 4 I know of here on boards) that *do* care, and *know* their limitations.
These are the people most qualified on this subject, (altho it seems a cpl of them disagree somwhat in this thread lol )

b

aare

That is all true, along with a degree of infighting and "politicking" BETWEEN the rescuers that would make Machiavelli blush...

Trouble is that there is always someone jumping up and down saying that if everybody just pretended none of this was happening and supported each other blindly in public, while dictating (often completely unrealistically, and with no subtantive premise) how the rest of the world should treat their animals and, by extension, live their lives, it would solve the problem, when all that achieves is to hide the problems where they can thrive.

People do not "say nasty things" about Animal Welfare in this country to score points, they say them to be honest, because of the "nasty things" that are happening.

In my opinion and experience, Animal Rescue in Ireland needs to clean house badly. But the Rescuers who do have the sincerity and integrity to do that are too busy actually rescuing dogs to do it (and have names you definately DO NOT regularly hear in the Press). So it seems to me that the only answer that will work will be legislation for regulation and accountability. (several rescues have charitable tax status without any real regulation at all)

...and I must not be the only one who sees this, because currently both the UK and the US (at Federal level) are in the process of creating animal welfare legislation that does, in addition to it's other aspects, regulate rescues.

You can't save every dog, but believe me, all it would take is a little rationalisation and regulation amongst the Rescuers themselves to save a LOT more for the same money.

gillianbird

Aare said

I think it might be nicer if you simply apologised for making such a derogatory statement and determined within yourself not to do such a thing again, rather than made excuses.

Fine - I am sorry that this comment offended you and the girls in question and I will be careful not to talk in such derogatory terms again.

I am truly sorry if the comment offended you, but it was meant to imply that we take it all seriously and would not leave important things in the hands of young volunteers as some other groups have done in the past. The girls in question (I think I know which ones) admitted themselves that they were giggly especially if approached by a human male who might have been considered to be "Cute"!

Aare also said

Why is the DSPCA still a "high kill shelter" for dogs, with a near blanket extermination policy towards feral and stray cats?

???? We deal with sick, injured and cruelty case dogs and only put to sleep those deemed too sick or injured to be kept alive on humane grounds! We are not a dog pound and take in what we have space to rehome (and more at times). Every dog is vaccinated, wormed, defleaed, neutered and microchipped before leaving and follow-up home checks are done. I would love to say no dogs are "killed" but sometimes it is more humane. If you can tell me how it is humane to keep a dog alive that has been sliced almost in two by the Luas then our vets and ethics committee would love to hear it!

Cats - we neuter as many of the healthy ones as we can and release them back to where there are carers; we offer a subsidised neutering to anyone who wants to bring a feral to us Monday to Thursdays; we collect sick and injured cats - repair, rehome where possible or put to sleep if not; we neuter every animal (dogs and cats) over 6 months and have compulsory neutering at the centre for those taking ones under 6 months all included in rehoming fees. We do not believe in keeping a feral cat in a cage for the rest of its life and will not release them to areas where there is no carer or where the area is unsafe.

I'm not going to spend the next month answering questions on this discussion board or in justifying what it is claimed the Dublin SPCA do or do not do, but if people want to ring me or drop up for a chat no problem. I’m in the office most days when not giving talks in schools or libraries. If I’m not there leave name and number and I'll get back to you.

Its nice to see so many caring people, its a pity some of you would not consider coming on board with the Dublin SPCA by coming on the main Committee!

Gillian

aare

Gillian,

You have placed me in a very difficult position, because the hard evidence to which I have had access supports my statement and not yours.

So much so that I was genuinely under the impression that it was all out in the open now, at least for anyone who cared to look or ask, otherwise I would not have referred to it at all. I certainly will not be making further reference to it.

CookieCat

Nor does Gillian statement reflect my finding either. And I thought it was DSPCA policy not to reply to these matters on public boards or is that only selective boards.Jimmy certainly tried to shut up I.A when in was functioning. when "comments" were made they he deemed unfair/unnecessary and he gave no explanation.

gillianbird

I have always had a policy of being direct and honest. I know there are rumours floating around that we kill lots of dogs and we have tried over and over again to talk to the main person spreading these lies but to no avail. I know some of this comes from when we were in Grand Canal Quay and were the only dog pound in Dublin. Aare, I will pm you so we can hopefully have a chat about this and finally sort this out once and for all at least with those on this discussion topic.

CookieCat - Jimmy does not like us getting involved in discussions because they annoy him but I do it when I feel the need myself, maybe I'll let people slate and abuse us in future!

Gillian

CookieCat

Perhaps as the education officer you can dispel the myths and hearsay. I think Dublin would be a poorer place without the likes of the DSPCA and it would be nice once and for all to dispel all the myths and inaccuracies floating around.

1. If a healthy domestic cat is handed in to the DSPCA, will it or won't it be PTS.
2.The DSPCA ask the public to contact pest control companies regarding trapping feral cats.

I also did not think the comments that Jimmy found offensive were unreasonable on a public board if memory serves me right. It was a particular post regarding the frustration of the general public not being able to get help from the DSPCA at a weekend and nowhere for animals to be seen/taken.
Also I think it was also asked if a cat i think was taken to the DSPCA would there be no guarantee that it would not be PTS. And if that can be interpretated as a public slating (As it is rescue groups and concerned members of the public that accessed the I.A board, so all I am asking is it not time to put the record straight once and for all.In a nice and polite way

aare

I am sorry Gillian, but I actually know far less about the functioning of the DSPCA before they left Grand Canal Quay than now (though it would be my impression that those old premises had very little to do with cats?)...that was, after all, a very long time ago...so long that I am surprised anybody would refer to it...it's history...

FYI I do not listen to "rumours", about anybody, anywhere...just hard facts.

I really do not think that it is in either my best interests or Gillian's to continue to discuss this here which, unlike IA, (except for a few boards, a "closed shop" accessible to members only) is a public board.

I would never have raised these matters at all if I did not have reason to believe that they had already been made public by the DSPCA themselves. It would appear that I was mistaken in that belief, if so, it were a sincere mistake that I regret.

Lilly81

we need to take on the attitude of the uk. their rescue and animal shelters are far superior to ours. i know it's all down to funding, sadly i don't see it changing anytime soon because of that

Arcadian

Now the RSPCA really are a law unto themselves !

Lilly81

i honestly never knew it was this bad....

peasant

First: I personally am not a rescue, I'm not involved with any rescue and I don't know anybody personally who is involved in any rescue ...I would therefore consider myself neutral on this issue.

Second: On and for the behalf of all the people who may read this and, like me, haven't got the first idea of what this is all about and who is talking to whom and from which background ...I would like to state the following:

Rescue organisations (good or bad as they may or may not be) are not the real issue. Some may be problematic, but that is a mere side issue.

ALL rescue organisations involved with domestic pets (regardless of the fact how well they are doing their job) are only scraping away at the tip of the iceberg. Desperately trying to save animals from being killed.

But the real problem ...the iceberg ...is that there are waaaay too many animals in the first place. They are being churned out by puppy mills and backyard breeders, bred to be used and then discarded ...treated as goods rather than beings. By "producers" and "consumers" alike.
Nobody is held responsible for the wellbeing of animals. There is insufficient legislation, business interests, un- to illinformed buyers/owners, a general lack of care/ responsibility / interest / knowledge ...
all conspiring to the dreadful conditions that we see today.

Rescues going for each others' throats doesn't help the iceberg one bit ...

I would like to appeal to all so far uninvolved readers (if there are any) to read up on the dreadful conditions for animals in this country, to get involved in their own environement, to talk to neighbours, to intervene when they see things going wrong and to lobby their local politicians for animal rights legislation.

Thank you

gillianbird

This discussion could go on forever, I would like to repeat something that has been said so many times before the DSPCA does not have a kill policy, and never did have a kill policy, the Dublin S.P.C.A. Dogs & Cats home is an animal sanctuary , and an animal sanctuary in the meaning of the word sanctuary, should you have any queries on that I suggest you call up and pay us a visit.

Gillian

old boy

any one got a rotti preferably neutered looking for a home please pm me

rosepetal_irl

Hi Gillian

You're right to say that it is hard to 'vet' good volunteers. I am a qualified veterinary assistant and on several occassions have asked if there would be any positions available, preferably paid and each time I am ignored. If the DSPCA or the ISPCA for that matter (been in touch too) rely on trained staff and yet complain 'how hard it is to find such staff' then why ignore the likes of myself that have experience with animals have gone to the trouble and expense to gain a qualification and who have a life-long ambition to work for the protection of animals whether domestic or not ?

I knew a guy whowas in my class at college, he worked as a volunteer although he liked his job he wanted a paid position and thought by doing the course he'd get it, he dropped out of the course because he 'couldn't handle the stress' and I don't know if this was rewarded with a paid positon at the shelter or not but it shows that you cannot tell by the person, he may be a great worker (kennel hand) but what about customer service, animal care and knowing the signs to watch out for in sick animals? He could've gotten all this information by completeing the course and having an all-round work related attitude. And he was one of the 'vetted' volunteers.

As for the CAT PROTECTION SOCIETY - KEEP AWAY FROM THEM
I had the misfortune to deal with them a few years ago when a stray kitten ran onto our building site (my husband's place was getting renovated) I asked them would they have a list of suitable foster homes or clinics that would re-home it. I was informed by a girl, a man and the receptionist who all glanced into the box, that 'it's ferral we will ring and arrange for an immediate euthanasia' I told them over my dead body and demanded the kitten be brought to a local vet. I checked an hour later and it had so I monitored the situation myself until a home was found. It's not the only case of heard, a friend of mine worked in a vet clinic and had the cat protection society drop cats and kittens off by the dozen every week to be euthanised and this woman actually demanded to be present at the time, the vet had previously managed to secretly find homes and told the woman she had it euthanised.

If this is cat protection I demand my donations back!

As regards subsidised neutering I only know of the Blue Cross mobile clinics. They acept donations but I'm not sure about operations but if you went along and asked their advise I'm sure they be more than happy to help. (although not with giving me a job!)

It is my mission in life to find a job that will actually pay me, to work with animals, I cannot even begin to think of buying a house without an income. Volunteering is great but it doesn't pay the bills.

Maynooth

well after ringing all over the dublin/kildare locality for work experience in vets, shelters etc....i can honestly say that the rudest person i have ever come across while speaking on the phone, was a member of the ispca. im not giving the name or anything but she was a rude cow and now i know exactly what some of you have been saying. its disgraceful. learn some manners!

SuzyS1972

Yes I'd be interested to know if any of the larger organisations offer reduced price neutering to the public
I know the DSPCA has a van in Ballymun and Coolock but it can only be for vaccinations and minor procedures.
They don't even offer a microchip service
I rang them to see about getting a couple of dogs done and was told to take them to their shelter.
Sure not many are going to traipse across half the city - can't understand why it can't be promoted big time by them and offered out of their mobile vans.
I have looked into this in detail and the chips can be bought for as little as 10 euro -

Irish-Lass

Dogs Aid have a clinic in Ballymun, I think the clinic use to be run DSPCA but they pulled out (not 100%) but Dogs Aid kept it up....but they do offer a reduction in the spay/neuter price.

There is also a clinic down by the Skylone and they do neutering cheaper then a normal vets.

We got our dog neutered in Slane as our own vets quoted us €157.50 (the dog is only a scottie x) and we got it done in Slane for €70.00 and the vet even took out 3 baby teeth that were bothering the dog for no extra charge. It pays to shop around

Shewhomustbe...

I can't believe the strong reaction this thread got.
It certainly seems from the replies that there definitely needs to be a change in legislation to change the circumstances so many animals are having to endure, and also to police all rescues, maybe a name and shame should be started.

I finally decided not to put off getting the voucher to get Mom spayed, mostly because we think she could be pregnant, and after psyching myself for the possibility of being met face to face with the same derision as I was by phone I was, well, amazed at how helpful, understanding and informative the two ladies in the shop were. The people in the vets were also very helpful.
Mom's op is in the morning so fingers crossed all goes well.