Equality for all cultures in Ireland

Uthur

It is estimated that there are 20,000-30,000 fluent Irish
speakers in Ireland.

Meanwhile, there are 60,000 Polish speakers and
50000+ Chinese speakers living here. Should the
government not have to provide equality for these
communities via:-

1) Polish and Chinese language only schools.
2) All official documents available in Polish and Chinese
3) All road signs marked in English, Irish, Polish and Chinese.

If not, why should the Poles and Chinese get short-changed
while Irish speakers get better treatment? And what about
speakers of other languages living here:- Russian, Romanian,
African languages etc? Answers on a postcard please.

Thank you.

aidan_walsh

You realise that by the time you're done with your little scheme, that the smallest road signs would be upwards of 50 feet tall, and trees would be extinct.

simu

Polish and Chinese speakers aren't asking for this stuff - many of them only want to stay in Ireland for a short while earning money or learning English from what I see.

LadyJ

The majority of those people are adults who are finished school and are here to learn English. By being surrounded by the English language they will learn it faster.

Uthur

I don't know any Poles to be honest. But I know quite a few
Chinese folks. They are settled people and I'm sure some of them
would like their kids to be able to go a Chinese language School so they
could learn their own language properly - Parents aren't always
very good at teaching their kids academic stuff.

I know some kids of German descent go to a German only school in
Dublin. Other cultures should have this opportunity too.

Every minority should have support from the Government - not just
Irish speakers. Either that or nobody should - it's not right to
discriminate in favour of the Irish language only.

griffdaddy

shouldn't this be in the StormFront forum??

Wertz

Uthur wrote:

- it's not right to
discriminate in favour of the Irish language only.

Why isn't it? We had our culture and moreso our language targetted for annihalation by the English over the centuries....which was very succesful as you can see if you look around you at modern day Ireland.
This was, for the majority, not a choice...non-Nationals that come to Ireland do so by choice, knowing it to be an English speaking nation...nobody forces them to live or work here...no-one forces them to use English as a first language or to want to learn it as a first language. No-one forces them to raise their Irish-born children here.

The Irish language is part of what defined and defines us as an individual race...if we loose that (which we are doubtless doing) we loose another little piece of what makes us who we are...part of our governing bodies' remit is to preserve our country and it's culture, including the native tongue...if the only way to do that is to throw money at the issue then that's what should be done. If other nationalities want to teach their children in their original native tongue, then it's time for them to dip their hands in their pockets and pay up....it is not part of our governing bodies' remit to preserve the language or cultures of non-Nationals. (unless there's some new EU directive I've not heard of :rolleyes: )

This might seem xenophobic and outdated as an attitude, but there's about 4 million of us left on this island...maybe 3% of us could claim a working knowledge of Irish (unfortuantely I'm not one of them) and even less could claim full fluency or claim that they use it as their first language in everyday life...
How many fluent Chinese speakers are there in China? Or Polish speakers in Poland? Or German speakers in Germany?

kawaii

griffdaddy wrote:

shouldn't this be in the StormFront forum??

Oooh, Naughty.

kawaii

Wertz wrote:

The Irish language is part of what defined and defines us as an individual race...if we loose that (which we are doubtless doing) we loose another little piece of what makes us who we are...

I don't get all this who were are stuff. Our past is who we WERE. We are what we are, No?

aidan_walsh

kawaii wrote:

I don't get all this who were are stuff. Our past is who we WERE. We are what we are, No?

Yes, because clearly the past has no effect on the present whatsoever, in much the same way that the present has no bearing on the future. Sheesh...

Wertz

kawaii wrote:

I don't get all this who were are stuff. Our past is who we WERE. We are what we are, No?

IMO what we were defines what we are...I realise that might not be the trendy liberal attitude that Modern Ireland seems to aspire to, but it's my take on what the OP is babbling about.

gurramok

Uthur wrote:

Every minority should have support from the Government - not just
Irish speakers. Either that or nobody should - it's not right to
discriminate in favour of the Irish language only.

Non-nationals who come here should integrate into Irish society and become part of our culture, not separate !
If an Irish person goes to China\Poland, we don't demand english schooling do we ?..We try to integrate into their society by learning Chinese\Polish language.

Draupnir

Em, dont want to sound rascist or anything, but this is Ireland. Surely by coming to live in this country, no matter how good or honorable your intentions, you are putting yourself in the position of accepting and adapting to our culture rather than expecting us to accomodate yours?

Colonial Britain had a kind of motto, in that wherever country they were colonising, it was their aim to "make it England". Personally, and Im sure most people feel, is that this is not the way to go.

Rather than expecting the country to suit you, you come to a country to add to it and to be a part of its predefined culture and society.

The last thing I personally want, is for the entire world to end up as one huge country with no defined cultural difference between nations, which is what the OP is advocating.

kawaii

aidan_walsh wrote:

Yes, because clearly the past has no effect on the present whatsoever, in much the same way that the present has no bearing on the future. Sheesh...

What I mean is that people spend too much time trying to keep the past alive when they could be focusing on the Present/future...

Uthur

gurramok wrote:

Non-nationals who come here should integrate into Irish society and become part of our culture, not separate !

That's not what having a diverse, multicultural society is all about. Other
peoples cultures should be accomodated too. If thousands of Irish or
English speakers were living in Poland/China then their governments should
make an effort to look after their interests as well.

IF there are more Chinese/Polish speakers here who want their
languages promoted just like Irish language the Gov has a duty
towards them. Irish speakers shouldn't get better treatment.

Uthur

Draupnir wrote:

Em, dont want to sound rascist or anything, but this is Ireland. Surely by coming to live in this country, no matter how good or honorable your intentions, you are putting yourself in the position of accepting and adapting to our culture rather than expecting us to accomodate yours?

Perhaps the Gov shouldn't promote Irish then. This is an English
speaking country after all - 100% speak fluent English, only 3% speak Irish.

Maybe Irish/Poles/Chinese should get no support and should all have to
pay forspecial language schools out of their own pocket? At least that
would be fair to everyone! Either everyone gets gov help or no one should!

DonkeyStyle \o/

Yeah interesting...
So an American tourist on his way to visit Ireland would be better off learning some Chinese than trying to brush up on his coupla focal.
It's gas how times change.
Irish will die out eventually, we're just unfortunate enough to be born into a time where people are still grasping onto it... "Oooh but our culture!!"
If the past is so important to you, go live in a wood and wattle shack in the mountains and leave our street signs alone.

Victor

Wertz wrote:

This might seem xenophobic and outdated as an attitude, but there's about 4 million of us left on this island

5.7m even.

aidan_walsh

"Oooh but our culture!!"

Better that than to become a faceless shell of a people whose direction is dominated by outside influences.

Uthur

Wertz wrote:

The Irish language is part of what defined and defines us as an individual race...

Not Really. I don't speak Irish. My parent's don't either. Neither did my
grandparents. There hasn't been a fluent Irish speaker in my family since
the 1900's at least! My culture has been English speaking for generations.
97% of Irish people can't speak Irish and are perfectly happy with English.
It's hardly true to say the Irish language is part of our culture - it's part of
our history but it's only one minority language among many in Ireland
nowadays.

part of our governing bodies' remit is to preserve our country and it's culture, including the native tongue...if the only way to do that is to throw money at the issue then that's what should be done.

Why should my money be used to support the Irish language specifically?
I can't speak it. I don't care about it. 97% of the country can't speak
it. Let Irish speakers foot the bill for Irish schools etc if they want to!

At the very least we should support all the minority languages equally!

Wertz

Uthur wrote:

Perhaps the Gov shouldn't promote Irish then. This is an English
speaking country after all - 100% speak fluent English, only 3% speak Irish.

But only for the reasons outlined above....we did not becoem English speaking by choice...it was forced upon us by a nation that knew exactly what it was doing, and that did it around the globe. None of the other country's you mention, with the possible exception of some African nations, had this sort of cultural genocide inflicted on them.
We've been speaking gaelic in this country for a very, very long time...it's only in the past 200 years that english has become a first language, even less so in the west and south of the island.
As already stated, our governing bodies have a remit to preserve our nation...the Irish language is part of what makes us that nation, like it as like it not, same way as our national sports, music and our history...all should be preserved for posterity. Otherwise we just become as homogenised as the Americans.

Uthur wrote:

Maybe Irish/Poles/Chinese should get no support and should all have to
pay forspecial language schools out of their own pocket? At least that
would be fair to everyone! Either everyone gets gov help or no one should!

For many years, Irish schools were priavte...many still are...it's only in the last decade and a half that we've seen any sort of injection of money into projects by the government...up till that point the money was, apparently, not available to do so.
Why should non-nationals who are here maybe 10-15 yrs, expect to have their cultures bankrolled by the State? Especially when they've made a decision to come to what they know is an English speaking country...it is not the responsibilty of the State to preserve the languages of other nations...

Uthur

aidan_walsh wrote:

Better that than to become a faceless shell of a people whose direction is dominated by outside influences.

Culture is a lot of **** really. Nationality is a lot of **** also. I am not
defined by being born in a particular country. I would be the same person
even if I had been born elsewhere.

I feel neither pride or shame because I was born in Dublin or Ireland. It's
just the place I happened to be born. I take no pride in the achievements
of past Irishmen - I didn't achieve them, they did. I feel no shame for
the transgressions of past Irishmen - they sinned, not I.

The past is nothing to me. I stand on my own two feet and take pride
in my own acheivements and responsibility for my own actions.

I am no faceless shell.

Alun

If an Irish person goes to China\Poland, we don't demand english schooling do we ?

Well, actually, in sense yes, because most English speaking people with children in a foreign country will send their kids to International (i.e. English speaking) Schools rather than put them into the local school system.

Wertz

Victor wrote:

5.7m even.

Granted.

DonkeyStyle \o/

aidan_walsh wrote:

Better that than to become a faceless shell of a people whose direction is dominated by outside influences.

Yes, because right now there are no other cultural influences diluting our own :rolleyes:... if this was the real issue then why not protest the American TV shows we all watch?
The Irish language hasn't been a real part of our culture for a very long time, yet greater cultural changes are happening all around us... I just find it daft that people are hailing the Irish language as the epitome of Irish culture, like it's all we've got.
No, I think there's far more that defines us.

Alun

Uthur wrote:

Culture is a lot of **** really. Nationality is a lot of **** also. I am not
defined by being born in a particular country. I would be the same person
even if I had been born elsewhere.

I feel neither pride or shame because I was born in Dublin or Ireland. It's
just the place I happened to be born. I take no pride in the achievements
of past Irishmen - I didn't achieve them, they did. I feel no shame for
the transgressions of past Irishmen - they sinned, not I.

The past is nothing to me. I stand on my own two feet and take pride
in my own acheivements and responsibility for my own actions.

I am no faceless shell.

Well said, I'm exactly the same. I've always found pride (in anything, or in anyone, but especially a country) to be a strange emotion. It's like taking credit for the achievements of someone else, possibly someone who is long dead and whom you have never met. My nationality is merely a word in my passport, and I owe nothing to the lump of earth my parents happened to be in when I was born.

Uthur

But only for the reasons outlined above....we did not becoem English speaking by choice...it was forced upon us by a nation that knew exactly what it was doing, and that did it around the globe. None of the other country's you mention, with the possible exception of some African nations, had this sort of cultural genocide inflicted on them.

True, but so what? That was hundreds of years ago now! Why should
the Gov implement policies today because of what the Brits did to us 100's
of years ago? The past is gone - we are an English speaking nation now
so there's no point crying over spilt milk!

Support for the Irish language should be left up to individuals who care
about it - the gov should not be involved. Certainly taxpayers cash
should not be used unless other minorities get some too!

our governing bodies have a remit to preserve our nation...the Irish language is part of what makes us that nation, like it as like it not, same way as our national sports, music and our history...all should be preserved for posterity. Otherwise we just become as homogenised as the Americans.

I don't agree. This should be left up to private individuals. The gov should
probably butt out and let enthusiasts promote the language. There are
lots of people willing to do it after all.

Why should non-nationals who are here maybe 10-15 yrs, expect to have their cultures bankrolled by the State? Especially when they've made a decision to come to what they know is an English speaking country...it is not the responsibilty of the State to preserve the languages of other nations...

How many years would you suggest? 20? 30? The gov has a duty to
look after its citizens desires. If that includes opening Chinese or Polish
schools they have to play fair. The gov can't accede to Irish speakers
wishes and ignore everyone else.

simu

Uthur wrote:

The gov can't accede to Irish speakers
wishes and ignore everyone else.

Like who? Where are people asking for Chinese-speaking schools?

Wertz

Uthur wrote:

Culture is a lot of **** really. Nationality is a lot of **** also.

Then I for one am done discussing this issue, if that's your general outlook. Nothing I can say is likely to remove such a notion from your mind.

I am not
defined by being born in a particular country. I would be the same person
even if I had been born elsewhere.

Nature versus nurture...are you trying to tell me if you'd been born in Ethiopia or Bangladesh you'd be the exact same person (or even simliar) to what you are now? Tell us another...

I feel neither pride or shame because I was born in Dublin or Ireland. It's
just the place I happened to be born. I take no pride in the achievements
of past Irishmen - I didn't achieve them, they did. I feel no shame for
the transgressions of past Irishmen - they sinned, not I.

Nor should you have to if you don't want to...that's your own personal choice. A bit souless maybe but each to their own...

The past is nothing to me. I stand on my own two feet and take pride
in my own acheivements and responsibility for my own actions.

The past is everything...it defines what comes in the future....causality I think is the term.
No-one says you have to live there, but why the sudden urge to whitewash over the whole thing and act like it's some sort of dirty little secret or something?

I am no faceless shell.

No, give it time....

PlayaFlow

Polish?? ...there arent as many poles here as there are Lithuanians , Nigerians and Romanians. why should we have stuff written in polish? other nationalities have been here for longer, and they might then feel ignored.

bleedin' foredners!

StupidLikeAFox

Uthur wrote:

Culture is a lot of **** really. Nationality is a lot of **** also.

There ya go, crux of the story. This is YOUR opinion. I love irish heritage and history, i think it should be kept alive. I dont believe in compromising this for any foreigners. This is not a racist view, i have non-national friends and they are all very welcome in the country, but at the same time we cannot lose what I see as our own identity because of the volume of immigrants. It just isnt on for a foreigner to come to the country and expect it to change for THEM. Afterall, the country of Ireland really owes them nothing. It is their choice to come to the country, therefore they should know what to expect and the onus is on them to adapt in whatever way they have to.

Now clearly you feel strongly about this, so what are ya gonna do about it? Lobby your local TDs? Run for office? Or just whinge on a message board?

Guy:Incognito

Uthur wrote:

I know some kids of German descent go to a German only school in
Dublin. Other cultures should have this opportunity too.
.

Would you be talking about Killians in Clonskeagh? Its not a german school in the sense of they way an Irish school is run. Everything is conducted in English but with more Emphasis on learning German. In an Irish school everything is thought through Irish.


As for the rest of your points. English is our national Languauge and Irish is an official one. People know this before they come here. Having separate schools is a form of government level segregation, all be it voluntary. People who emigrate should be encouraged to integrate, not set up a little part that is Polish/chinese territory in all but name.

simu

OK Uthur - if culture is a pile of ****, it must be so for the cultures of any part of the globe and in that case, why do you want these to be promoted in schools at all?

DonkeyStyle \o/

simu wrote:

why do you want these to be promoted in schools at all?

I'm guessing practicality.

Uthur

Wertz wrote:

Then I for one am done discussing this issue, if that's your general outlook. Nothing I can say is likely to remove such a notion from your mind.

Culture is a lot of bunk. Nationalism too. I guess that's too much honesty
for people who wrap up their sense of identity in their country or culture.

The past is everything...it defines what comes in the future....causality I think is the term.

Lets not have an irrelevant discussion about free-will versus causality.

No-one says you have to live there, but why the sudden urge to whitewash over the whole thing and act like it's some sort of dirty little secret or something?

I'm not trying to ignore it. I'm just saying the gov shouldn't use my cash
to promote it. Let the people who care about it promote it with their
own cash.

No, give it time....

Ooh, I might become a faceless shell (whatever that is) at some
unspecified point in the future. How scary!

Uthur

ColHol wrote:

There ya go, crux of the story. This is YOUR opinion. I love irish heritage and history, i think it should be kept alive.

Good for you. You pay for it then.

StupidLikeAFox

Well why should i pay for another countrys culture to be promoted in my country like you're proposing?

And also:

Me wrote:

what are ya gonna do about it? Lobby your local TDs? Run for office? Or just whinge on a message board?

Uthur

simu wrote:

OK Uthur - if culture is a pile of ****, it must be so for the cultures of any part of the globe and in that case, why do you want these to be promoted in schools at all?

Because it's what the people want. I don't care for anyone's culture
but other people do. But if the gov is gonna help minorities children to
learn their parents languages properly they need to help everyone - not
just Irish speakers.

Personally I'd prefer if they helped no one and let everyone pay for
private schools if they want them. Also, Fukk the Gaelscoils - as an English
speaker from generations of English speakers I don't want to have to pay
for that.

gurramok

Uthur wrote:

That's not what having a diverse, multicultural society is all about. Other
peoples cultures should be accomodated too. If thousands of Irish or
English speakers were living in Poland/China then their governments should
make an effort to look after their interests as well.

IF there are more Chinese/Polish speakers here who want their
languages promoted just like Irish language the Gov has a duty
towards them. Irish speakers shouldn't get better treatment.

Immigrants who want to stay here should assimilate into Irish society and not have a nation within a nation.
Afaik, foreign languages bar english is not part of Irish heritage, Irish lang has been.
If foreigners wish to setup lang schools for their own, they should do so not from govt coffers.
Irish people who went to foreign countries adapted to their surroundings by learning the lingo of their host nations and integrating, this should happen when foreigners likewise come here.

simu

Uthur wrote:

Because it's what the people want. I don't care for anyone's culture
but other people do.

Well, where are all these Chinese etc people who feel deprived then? Got links?

Also, Fukk the Gaelscoils - as an English
speaker from generations of English speakers I don't want to have to pay
for that.

They teach all the normal subjects in them too ya know.

Alun

gurramok wrote:

Irish people who went to foreign countries adapted to their surroundings by learning the lingo of their host nations and integrating, this should happen when foreigners likewise come here.

Some did, many didn't, and still don't. I've lived in a number of different European countries and have always made the effort to learn their languages. Unfortunately I was very definitely in a minority amongst my compatriots. And if you want examples of non-integrating English speakers you only have to look as far as the English speaking 'ghettos' in countries like Spain and Portugal.

Uthur

simu wrote:

Well, where are all these Chinese etc people who feel deprived then? Got links?

There are 50,000+ Chinese in Dublin alone. Don't you think a lot of them
would like their kids to speak Chinese properly? A parent can't teach
this nearly as well as a qualified teacher.

Don't you think they deserve this as much as the Irish speaking community?

I only know a few Chinese people but they have said they'd like it if
a chinese language school were available. Not that the gov has ever asked
them what they would like...

StupidLikeAFox

Uthur wrote:

Don't you think they deserve this as much as the Irish speaking community?

Quite frankly no. Its the IRISH government, not the chinese government. Your very fickle tbh, you dont want the government paying for irish schools, but you want them to pay for chinese ones? whats up with that?

Also, i think you missed this:

ColHol wrote:

why should i pay for another countrys culture to be promoted in my country like you're proposing?

what are ya gonna do about it? Lobby your local TDs? Run for office? Or just whinge on a message board?

Fact is, the government take care of immigrants quite well in comparison to most countries, so this type of whinging is pretty unfounded

nobodythere

Uthur wrote:

It is estimated that there are 20,000-30,000 fluent Irish
speakers in Ireland.

Meanwhile, there are 60,000 Polish speakers and
50000+ Chinese speakers living here. Should the
government not have to provide equality for these
communities via:-

1) Polish and Chinese language only schools.
2) All official documents available in Polish and Chinese
3) All road signs marked in English, Irish, Polish and Chinese.

If not, why should the Poles and Chinese get short-changed
while Irish speakers get better treatment? And what about
speakers of other languages living here:- Russian, Romanian,
African languages etc? Answers on a postcard please.

Thank you.

Because Irish is the first language of Ireland by the constitution, these measures are there to protect native speakers and to hold on to a culture that, as i see it is a culture that is mainly a crock of materialistic, self-pitying s*ite, is still endangered in a way.

Don't get me wrong, I hate the ****ing language. Post 400, w00tage

gurramok

Alun wrote:

Some did, many didn't, and still don't. I've lived in a number of different European countries and have always made the effort to learn their languages. Unfortunately I was very definitely in a minority amongst my compatriots. And if you want examples of non-integrating English speakers you only have to look as far as the English speaking 'ghettos' in countries like Spain and Portugal.

Well, in respect..your host culture is important. If you can't integrate, your hardly making an effort to respect your host countries culture and customs?

Those 'ghettoes' you speak of are hoilday destinations to cater for the huge numbers of holidaymakers there whose interest is in sun, sea, shag and sand

The immigrants in Ireland aren't holidaying, they are here for work and send their money back to their home countries. Maybe that money could be better spent on their 'own' community or even integrating more into society?

Wertz

DonkeyStyle \o/ wrote:

Yes, because right now there are no other cultural influences diluting our own :rolleyes:... if this was the real issue then why not protest the American TV shows we all watch?

I'm in full agreement with you here...but how can you stop the infiltration of populist US culture? You can't get the sh*t back in the horse...
It's all over our TVs, the Net and the music charts. It's in our booksand on our radios. It's all kids everywhere in the world seem to want to participate in....mainly because it drowns out most everything else. The Muslim backlash we're seeing currently, cites US/western culture as one it's reasons for their jihad...

DonkeyStyle\o/ wrote:

The Irish language hasn't been a real part of our culture for a very long time, yet greater cultural changes are happening all around us... I just find it daft that people are hailing the Irish language as the epitome of Irish culture, like it's all we've got.

No-one's saying it's the epitomé...but it is part of it...and always has been. The fact that it's degenerated over the last century is as much down to a lack of resources to teach it properly in "normal" schools as it is to outside cultural influences. Now that we finally have a few extra quid to try and stop the rot, why shouldn't we? Taxpayer's money (sorry, Uthar's money :rolleyes: ) is flittered away on a lot of less deserving things.
If everyone commited to trying to maintain the language had the same atitude as seems to be the general consensus, the language really would be dead and buried, and we wouldn't be having this conversation.
If it dies (and it most likely will) at least we can turn around and tell our great grandkids that we tried...

DonkeyStyle\o/ wrote:

No, I think there's far more that defines us.

What else out of curiosity...even though it's veering slightly OT

Victor

gurramok wrote:

Afaik, foreign languages bar english is not part of Irish heritage, Irish lang has been.

French, Latin, Spanish, American, even Greek haven't contributed then? Pleb.

If foreigners wish to setup lang schools for their own, they should do so not from govt coffers.

If you are referring to language schools they are all private. If you are referring to school, that specialise in a particular ethos, then shall we nationalise several thousand schools then and ban minority religions, etc?

Irish people who went to foreign countries adapted to their surroundings by learning the lingo of their host nations and integrating, this should happen when foreigners likewise come here.

Playa del Finglas anyone?

Alun

gurramok wrote:

Those 'ghettoes' you speak of are hoilday destinations to cater for the huge numbers of holidaymakers there whose interest is in sun, sea, shag and sand

No I'm not I'm talking of the massive numbers of people who go there to live, running "Irish" or "English" bars and fish and chip restaurants, or to retire. They're like worlds within worlds ... creepy places.

simu

Uthur wrote:

There are 50,000+ Chinese in Dublin alone. Don't you think a lot of them
would like their kids to speak Chinese properly? A parent can't teach
this nearly as well as a qualified teacher.

Don't you think they deserve this as much as the Irish speaking community?

I only know a few Chinese people but they have said they'd like it if
a chinese language school were available. Not that the gov has ever asked
them what they would like...

I don't know because I don't have psychic powers. They can go lobby the government like any other group if they're not happy with how things are.

DonkeyStyle \o/

Wertz wrote:

but how can you stop the infiltration of populist US culture? You can't get the sh*t back in the horse...

That pretty much sums up a lot of peoples oppinions of the Irish language aswell... it's gone beyond the point of revival... it's terminally ill so to speak... so why not euthanise it?
Is this romantic notion of 'putting up a fight' really worth the money being thrown at it?

No-one's saying it's the epitomé...but it is part of it...and always has been.

But is it now?
At 3%(?) I wouldn't count it as part our modern day culture... of course it's part of our heritage, but does heritage need to be embraced to become culture?

The fact that it's degenerated over the last century is as much down to a lack of resources to teach it properly in "normal" schools as it is to outside cultural influences.

Don't forget to factor in the people who simply don't want to learn it because it's of no practical use to them.
I could start learning Irish (again) tomorrow if I wanted, but on my list of languages to learn Irish is ranked somewhere below latin and Cobol.

Taxpayer's money is flittered away on a lot of less deserving things.

Absolutely, but that doesn't mean it makes any sense... people pissed and moaned about Berties new jet... I suppose this just falls into the same category. I'd much sooner see that money thrown at drug rehab centers and homeless shelters. I think we've bigger things to worry about.

pickarooney

Uthur wrote:

There are 50,000+ Chinese in Dublin alone. Don't you think a lot of them
would like their kids to speak Chinese properly? A parent can't teach
this nearly as well as a qualified teacher.

Are you having a laugh? Did you need to wait until you went to school to start speaking English properly?