They're back....

mike65

..and there is no extradition.

from indo.

The men known as 'The Columbia Three' are said to be back in Ireland.

It's believed the men entered Ireland from an unknown destination within the past five days.

Niall Connolly, Jim Monaghan and Martin McCauley were arrested in Bogotá Airport on August 11th 2001.

The three Irishmen insisted they visited the zone to observe peace talks.

They were charged with training FARC guerrillas in weapons and explosives and following a lengthy trial the three men mysteriously disappeared.

It's not known how they returned to this country and who may have assisted them.

A government spokesperson has confirmed their return to Ireland is not linked to last week's historic statement by the IRA in which it announced it was giving up the armed struggle.

Mike.

mycroft

mike65 wrote:

..and there is no extradition.

from indo.


Mike.

Wasn't FTA69 cheering their trimuphant return 7 months ago?

I can see the telegrams arriving in cuba now

STOP. DON'T COME HOME. STOP. NASTY BUSINESS WITH MCCARTNEY STOP. AND FUNDRAISING CAMPAIGN STOP. WILL TELEGRAM AFTER WE'VE SHOVELLED SOME GUFF AT THE PRESS IN A FEW MONTHS. STOP. SOMETIME JULY-ISH STOP. ENJOY THE MOCHETOS. STOP.

A Dub in Glasgo

Apart from regurgetating an Indo article, what is this thread about?

mike65

Dub you're quite right to ask (yes I forgot to "comment"). Well as they have resurfaced and assuming for a moment the Garda can find them, will the outstanding Interpol warrents be executed or not? The Northern Ireland office has said they'll send them back if they are caught in NI.

Mike.

Milo

Your indo article fails to mention they were aquited of the charges of training the FARC and that only after a political storm were they subjected to another show trial for the benefit of the Americans and the Columbian public to assuage any doubts that were had as regards the competance of the rather unpopular Columbian government to deal with the FARC and the drugs trade!

Also I might be missing some suggestion of an opinion in your rather lengthy post but I don't think so, so I've gone to the trouble of copying and pasting the first few lines of the posting guidelines for politics!

"Topics should not be verbatim quotes from some article sans comment. Add a comment before or after the post, offering your opinion on the subject, or at the very least, your reason for adding the topic"

mycroft

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Apart from regurgetating an Indo article, what is this thread about?

To annouce the party of course, I hear the RA has a little bit of cash to spare for a knees up, and a fatten calf all lined up.

Someone will have to kill and gut the calf of course, but I hear Gerry and Martin know the odd fellow who's well handy with a knife.

kenmc

Wonder what passports they were travelling on this time...

A Dub in Glasgo

mike65 wrote:

Dub you're quite right to ask (yes I forgot to "comment"). Well as they have resurfaced and assuming for a moment the Garda can find them, will the outstanding Interpol warrents be executed or not? The Northern Ireland office has said they'll send them back if they are caught in NI.

Mike.

What is the current legal status of these men in the Republic of Ireland?

I very much doubt any court on this island will send anybody back to face Colombian justice never mind some bird watchers who happen to look at the wrong type of birds.

One of them was interviewed on RTÉ news just now.
They are back in Ireland.
Charlie Bird said it was hard to believe that it was just a coincidence to the IRA statement of last week but the government deny this.

Milo please leave the moderating to the moderators thanks.

mycroft

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

I very much doubt any court on this island will send anybody back to face Colombian justice never mind some bird watchers who happen to look at the wrong type of birds.

I forget which lie we're on now.

Are they saying they were birdwatchers or "observing" the peace process, at the moment?

tomMK1

they were acquitted werent they? before, obviously, the amazing 'secret' appeal that got them sentenced. Do you have proof of what they were doing mycroft? if not, please dont pretend you have.

Apparently if the columbian government want them back, the irish government will apparently listen. it'll be interesting all the same to see what happens

flogen

mycroft wrote:

I forget which lie we're on now.

Are they saying they were birdwatchers or "observing" the peace process, at the moment?

no, no, no. You're way off. They were eco-tourists. Whatever the hell that means.

flogen

tomMK1 wrote:

they were acquitted werent they? before, obviously, the amazing 'secret' appeal that got them sentenced. Do you have proof of what they were doing mycroft? if not, please dont pretend you have.

Apparently if the columbian government want them back, the irish government will apparently listen. it'll be interesting all the same to see what happens

secret appeal? I thought it was a standard court appeal?

And it's not up to mycroft to prove anything, he's just going on the basis of the last (and thus legally valid) judgement made in Columbia. Is there solid proof of corruption?
I think it would be a bad move by the Irish government not to send them back; not because I think they did it, but it would set a very bad precident. If the Irish decide not to send them back they'll need to justify why (as in prove that the court is corrupt)

Cork

flogen wrote:

I think it would be a bad move by the Irish government not to send them back; not because I think they did it, but it would set a very bad precident. If the Irish decide not to send them back they'll need to justify why (as in prove that the court is corrupt)

This country cannot send out a single that we are soft of fugitives from Justice.

These people need to be sent back to Columbia.

bbbbb

FFS, SF/IRA really know how to take the piss...

Let's hope McDowell unleashes CAB on them soon.

mycroft

tomMK1 wrote:

they were acquitted werent they? before, obviously, the amazing 'secret' appeal that got them sentenced. Do you have proof of what they were doing mycroft? if not, please dont pretend you have.

As flogen said I don't have to present proof, SF have just stammered that columbian justice is corrupt and unreliable and therefore the must be being sitched up,

Meanwhile SF have said they're eco tourists, no birdwatchers, no wait observing the peace process, they've lied repeatadly about their reason for being there in the first place.

county

Cork wrote:

This country cannot send out a single that we are soft of fugitives from Justice.

These people need to be sent back to Columbia.

too bloodly right

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

county

i am sure bertie would`nt piss off another nation over 3 IRA scumbags,totally agree,send them back

magick

no one gives a farc about them, their more than llikely going to be sent back but they will try and appeal

JJJonsey

Send 'em back and let them rot.

I can't believe the british government are already acting upon the SF/IRA's words by taking down the lookout posts etc, and now this, its just taking the piss.

If you or I arrived here on forged passports (and two of them area alleged to have) then we would be dragged over the coals for it. I already think that Ireland could prove to be an achilles heel for the UK in terms of security (security passcodes rarely checked at airports etc, Dublin was just the start mark my words) and if these tossers aren't sent back quick smart, it will go all the way to proving that Ireland is a soft touch.

rsynnott

Who let them in? Send them back by return of post.

mike65

Other message board/bloging comment here and here

Mike.

mike65

Columbian Vice President calls on Government to extradite the OTRs.

Colombian authorities are awaiting an official response from the Irish government following calls for the Columbia 3 to be returned to the country.

In a statement, Vice President Francisco Santos said Bertie Ahern had the legal and moral obligation to return the three men who were sentenced for training FARC rebels.

It emerged yesterday that Niall Connolly, Martin McCauley and James Monaghan, who were given 17 years in jail in Columbia, are now back in Ireland.

Opposition parties are questioning how this was allowed to happen.

The Green Party's Deputy Dan Boyle is calling for clarification from the government.

"Many people in Ireland feel uncomfortable with the quality of the legal system in Colombia, and there is no extradition treaty", said Deputy Boyle.

"But there are secondary issues such as the use of illegal Irish passports", he continued.

Mr Boyle said that the government needs to make a statement as to whether the three men have any legal issues they have to account for.

So its not like Bertie and Michael McD can ignore this. No doubt some get-out regarding "banana republic justice" can be put forward but it'll still looks like Provos 1 - 0 Irish Government.

Mike.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

You know I have 2 cold light of day comments to make here.
1. Due process should be served again before we rush to judgement
2. What sort of eejits were the people who made this public? They handed a propaganda tool to the unionists,just when they were finding it hard to have any straws to grasp on to.
I'd hazzard a guess that rank and file IRA members needed to know about this to keep them on board for the Statement-but to make it public in such a way?
What a blunder in terms of peace process management.
They could have simply got one of their local "commanders" from each area to meet them and withness that they were back in Ireland.
I'm guessing that there was "covert" assistance from the Irish Government with their return(which obviously being covert,they will deny).
That "covert" assistance was probably a compromise for the impossibility of the release of the McCabe killers.
I'm also guessing that someone in the IRA took the decision to go public on this as a nah nah nan nah na jeer to unionists and as a buoy up to the IRA rank and file.

Ultimately in my view they did more harm than good by doing it this way.
They werent pragmatic.

luckat

If they were handed back to Colombia and then murdered in jail (Colombian jails have a horrific record on prisoner murders), it might not be great for the peace process either; the unionists wouldn't be particularly impressed one way or the other, but republicans would see it as the ultimate betrayal.

Incidentally, isn't it heartwarming that Mr Paisley is going to be lorded?

Some of his sermons are here http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/camp.htm if inspiration is needed.

gurramok

JJJonsey wrote:

If you or I arrived here on forged passports (and two of them area alleged to have) then we would be dragged over the coals for it. I already think that Ireland could prove to be an achilles heel for the UK in terms of security (security passcodes rarely checked at airports etc, Dublin was just the start mark my words) and if these tossers aren't sent back quick smart, it will go all the way to proving that Ireland is a soft touch.

Its not news that people that slip in out of this country.
After all, we are a major trans-shipment point for drugs gangs and have thousands of asylum seekers flowing back and forth with open borders.

According to security sources that are often quoted in the Indo, there are about 200 potential Islamic terrorists lying low, travelling freely without security services watching them.

Point is anybody can come and go as they wish.

hill16

Its great news they are home,cant wait for their welcome home function.

Villain

Fools going public on their return at this stage, Adams must be furious. I really couldn't be bothered going into what they were doing out there again However I think people might want to look at the FACTS of the case before making wild accusations especially the first judge's comments. I really doubt that they will be sent back seeing as the Irish government were looking for their return pending another appeal.

Bad timing lads real bad timing, Paisley will harp on about this one for at least 6 months.

irish1

irish1 wrote:

Bad timing lads real bad timing, Paisley will harp on about this one for at least 6 months.

It might be "good timing" if you look at it another way...

Some people might have wanted to hand this to Paisley to slow up the process...
You know like what good is a process if it actually achieves an agreement with paisley? There'd be no big bad wolf to show up as the face of these baddie unionists.
Paisley might have got too reasonable too quickly like.

One should never underestimate the spanner throwers on either side when it comes to the North.

arbeitsscheuer

Hunt em down, extrodite them back to Columbia. If this government wants to make good on its promises, that's what it has to do.

P.S. My personal view is that if they really were trainin the FARC guerrilas then fair f**ks, cos I prefer them to the right-wing incumbent administration of Colombia. But in the interests of a lasting peace in the North, they must be found and extrodited. Sorry, but there it is.

Cork

SebtheBum wrote:

Hunt em down, extrodite them back to Columbia. If this government wants to make good on its promises, that's what it has to do.

P.S. My personal view is that if they really were trainin the FARC guerrilas then fair f**ks, cos I prefer them to the right-wing incumbent administration of Colombia. But in the interests of a lasting peace in the North, they must be found and extrodited. Sorry, but there it is.

The return of these 3 has the potential to create another stale mate in the peace process. Their return will not help US foriegn direct investment.

But I'd have no problems if these 3 wanted to serve out the remainder of their sentences in an Irish prison.

Observing the Peace process in Columbia?

What effect these 3 will have on our own peace process will be more to the point.

A Dub in Glasgo

Earthman wrote:

It might be "good timing" if you look at it another way...

Some people might have wanted to hand this to Paisley to slow up the process...
You know like what good is a process if it actually achieves an agreement with paisley? There'd be no big bad wolf to show up as the face of these baddie unionists.
Paisley might have got too reasonable too quickly like.

One should never underestimate the spanner throwers on either side when it comes to the North.

I see it in a totally different light.

We are in a process of "decontamination" from Paisley and his ilk. This process may take some time, it is far better to get this development out of the way now when we are very early in the "decontamination" process. I very much doubt that this development will prolong the timescales when Paisley will deal with SF. If the development came in 5 months time, it would give Paisley another excuse to prolong the process.

FTA69

They had to go public sometime didn't they? Any time they did announce their return would generate the same furore, better to have it over and done with so it can be swept under the general euphoria over the recent Army statement.

Fools going public on their return at this stage

And who are you to condemn them as fools? If you were through half the stuff they were you might hold a different opinion. Should they hide underground, living like rats because they might embarass you?

As for the people baying like hounds for their extradition to Colombia,
Do you honestly believe that the men recieved a fair or impartial trial in that country given its appalling international record? Do you honestly think it just to send 3 men convicted in a gerrymandered show-trial back to a country where they would be killed? I have been lectured on the importance human life by many of the above people, but yet when it comes to 3 Republicans the whole concept changes.

rsynnott

FTA69 wrote:

As for the people baying like hounds for their extradition to Colombia,
Do you honestly believe that the men recieved a fair or impartial trial in that country given its appalling international record? Do you honestly think it just to send 3 men convicted in a gerrymandered show-trial back to a country where they would be killed? I have been lectured on the importance human life by many of the above people, but yet when it comes to 3 Republicans the whole concept changes.

If you go to another country and do illegal things which you know full well will get you in trouble, and hurt others, then I really have very little pity for you.

gregos

Where does Columbia come into this? I thought they'd been in Colombia.

oscarBravo

FTA69 wrote:

Do you honestly believe that the men recieved a fair or impartial trial in that country given its appalling international record?

Do you honestly believe they were birdwatching?

A Dub in Glasgo

oscarBravo wrote:

Do you honestly believe they were birdwatching?

Do you honestly believe they were training FARC rebels?

mycroft

FTA69 wrote:

As for the people baying like hounds for their extradition to Colombia,
Do you honestly believe that the men recieved a fair or impartial trial in that country given its appalling international record? Do you honestly think it just to send 3 men convicted in a gerrymandered show-trial back to a country where they would be killed? I have been lectured on the importance human life by many of the above people, but yet when it comes to 3 Republicans the whole concept changes.

What evidence do you have that the trial was unfair?

What evidence do you have that the charges are false?

What evidence do you have that they are to be executed?

Adubinglas wrote:

Do you honestly believe they were training FARC rebels?

Why were they there? Why was an IRA bomb maker with them?

county

they would want to stay in the south,if they cross the border they will be executed,and that would be a crying shame :rolleyes:

A Dub in Glasgo

My Croft wrote:

Why were they there?

I do not know. Do you know?

Why was an IRA bomb maker with them?

Was he?
Who was that?
What evidence do you have that he is still involved in bomb making?
What do you think of this IRA killer?
Is he still an IRA killer?

mycroft

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

I do not know. Do you know?

I know they've lied about their reasons being there, and changed their stories several times, I know SF changed their offical line on the men on a number of occasions.

So I don't know, I just know their version of events and SFs version of events can't be trusted

Was he?
Who was that?
What evidence do you have that he is still involved in bomb making?
What do you think of this IRA killer?
Is he still an IRA killer?

James Monaghan is a convicted bomber, I do so dislike that tedious little habit of yours of asking me to research what we both know is true.

I do so love these non sequiturs. And what the f*ck has Sean O Callaghan's track record got to do with Monaghan's? Sean doesn't make bombs so James doesn't? :rolleyes: What sort of logic guides you?

Sean O Callaghan wasn't trooping around a jungle with a false passport cozying up to terrorists, lying about why he was there and having his party consistently change their stories about why they were there.

So I don't know, but I'm not taking his word for it.

Oh and FTA69, they weren't going to be executed they were going to jail for 17years. Cease thy hysteria.
Catch youself on.

hill16

Mr Mycroft wants to know how the trial was unfair.The only evidence against them was a statement from a alleged ex FARC rebel who says he saw them on certain dates training the rebels.The only problem is that on the dates he gave Connolly was in the Irish embassy in Mexico and Monaghan was at an ex prisoners meeting in Belfast which was filmed.

oscarBravo

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Do you honestly believe they were training FARC rebels?

I think it's a much more likely explanation for entering a country illegally than eco-tourism.

mycroft

hill16 wrote:

Mr Mycroft wants to know how the trial was unfair.The only evidence against them was a statement from a alleged ex FARC rebel who says he saw them on certain dates training the rebels.The only problem is that on the dates he gave Connolly was in the Irish embassy in Mexico and Monaghan was at an ex prisoners meeting in Belfast which was filmed.

Actually if I recall the only evidence of that was the word of a bunch of republican prisoners, and video of said meeting that wasn't time stamped.

Care to provide a non saorise link for the rest?

Villain

mycroft wrote:

Actually if I recall the only evidence of that was the word of a bunch of republican prisoners, and video of said meeting that wasn't time stamped.

Care to provide a non saorise link for the rest?

Heres some facts:

The prosecution relied heavily on the testimony of informers, all of which was refuted through alibi testimony for all three and video evidence showing, for example, that Jim Monaghan was actually in Dublin and Belfast on dates that it was alleged he was in the jungle training the guerrillas. Sile Maguire, First Secretary at the Irish embassy in Mexico, testified that she had dinner with Niall Connolly on 17 January 2001 in Cuba, along with Jim O’Keeffe Fine Gael TD and Ben Briscoe Fianna Fail TD on a date an informer claimed he was in the demilitarised zone.

So are you calling Sile Maguire a liar????

BuffyBot

Do you honestly believe they were training FARC rebels?

Well, ermm yeah. Don't see First Choice flying holiday charters there, and there seems very little reason for them to be there otherwise. Bird watching, eh?

Cork

BuffyBot wrote:

Well, ermm yeah. Don't see First Choice flying holiday charters there, and there seems very little reason for them to be there otherwise. Bird watching, eh?

Mortar Monaghan reported as being one of the Provisional IRA’s main weapons experts since the organisation’s inception.

Maybe he has taken up bird watching.

cal29

Big deal about nothing better to get it out of the way now

In a couple of weeks it will be all forgotten about

If they returned home in the middle of negotiations with the DUP or shortly after the return of Stormont then there would be a problem

My guess is that they are probably back a while and it has been decided to get it out into the public now and get all the mock shock and indignation out of the way

The only evidence against them was the word of an informer who the trial judge completely discredited as well as the fact that he was proven to be lying

the forensic evidence that the columbia authorities produced was completely discredited

The trial judge who actually heard the evidence found them not guilty

A Dub in Glasgo

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

I see it in a totally different light.

We are in a process of "decontamination" from Paisley and his ilk. This process may take some time, it is far better to get this development out of the way now when we are very early in the "decontamination" process. I very much doubt that this development will prolong the timescales when Paisley will deal with SF. If the development came in 5 months time, it would give Paisley another excuse to prolong the process.

Given that most of the Sunday papers are quoting the Gardaí today as saying they have been in Ireland since march,I'd say that sort of dampens your theory.
They could have done the RTÉ interview 5 months ago but chose a week after the IRA statement instead.
Very silly TBH and more in line with the spanner throwing,lets give paisley something to crow on about and go nah na nah na na to the unionists at the same time theory.

As I said earlier if it was genuinely a case of the grass roots of the IRA needing to hear that they were home, the local commanders could have met them and withnessed the homecoming.
Gloating in public like this was definitely not the way to go imho.

By the way the Gardaí have no reason to arrest them as afaik they are Irish citizens and not fugitives of any law broken here.
They are entitled to be in their own country and if they werent caught using false passports in other countries to get here then they are home and dry.
Columbia doesnt have an extradition treaty with the Republic of Ireland either so only the government can change the situation such that columbia can apply to have them arrested and returned.
It's unlikely that they will do that as I suspect that the government here are a tad more pragmatic than the(in my opinion) people who made the foolish decision to do the gloating.