Driving to Europe Mainland

cormie

Hi,
I'm thinking of going to Europe, probably France for a week or so with a few friends. It hasn't been organised at all yet and is now just an idea. If there are enough of us, I was thinking I could maybe rent a mini bus because I'm the only one with a full licence Now, I'm fully licensed in Category B (Vehicles with seats for up to 8 passengers and max weight of 3,500kg) so this definitely means 8 passengers + Me (the driver) and not 8 including the driver yeah?

For anyone who has experienced this, do you reckon its easier to get used to a car with left hand drive (gearing with your right hand etc) or easier to get used to driving on the wrong side of the road?

How much should I expect to pay for a mini bus over in France? Can anyone recommend something other than a mini bus, maybe with a bit of storage for luggage?

If i was taking my car, what is the best way to get it over there? I hear from Rosslare to France is about €600 for a car :eek:

What other info should I know before setting off?

Any feedback appreciated:)

Squirrel

On the continent it is law to carry a fire extinguisher, spare bulbs and a warning triangle in your car and the Police can confiscate your license if you don't have these.

cormie

Really? Interesting. I suppose I should get them anyway for here! Thanks.

murphaph

It's nearly always quicker to use Britain as a landbridge to reach France, but if you're the only driver it's probably a bad idea cos you'll be knackered by the time you reach Calais!

Driving on the right is quite straightforward. Changing gear with your right hand is also easy (I'm right handed, perhaps if your a southpaw it might be different). Make sure you are familiar with the roadsigns of France, some of which may be completely new to you. Check out the situation with right of way on roundabouts too-in Italy and to a lesser extent in Germany (I've never seen one, but I read they exist in Germany) some roundabouts give priority to those who wish to enter the rotary!

If you don't like the idea of changing gear you may be able to get an automatic.

Alun

Squirrel wrote:

On the continent it is law to carry a fire extinguisher, spare bulbs and a warning triangle in your car and the Police can confiscate your license if you don't have these.

Depends a bit on which bit of the continent you're talking about.

See http://www.theaa.com/allaboutcars/overseas/general_advice.html and more specifically http://www.theaa.com/allaboutcars/overseas/general_advice.html.

Also be aware of the following, especially the bit about having to have had a valid driving licence for more than a year (and before you ask, NO, a provisional doesn't count!)

What Age do I need to be to Hire a Car in France - Driver's License

A valid driving licence needs to have been held for at least 1 year and be in Western Script. Most locations in France you must be at least 21 years of age, but this is not always the case so be sure to ask us first!. Driving into neighbouring countries, or completing your rental in a different town/airport may be permitted for a small fee depending on the destination country and location. Additional driver and young driver / minimum age limits also vary by hire locationy.

ds20prefecture

cormie wrote:

Now, I'm fully licensed in Category B (Vehicles with seats for up to 8 passengers and max weight of 3,500kg) so this definitely means 8 passengers + Me (the driver) and not 8 including the driver yeah?

8 including driver, AFAIK.

For anyone who has experienced this, do you reckon its easier to get used to a car with left hand drive (gearing with your right hand etc) or easier to get used to driving on the wrng side of the road?

Both are easy - Overtaking on single carriageways is trickier driving RHD on the right side of the road. If you're renting, just get an auto - it'll be a lot easier to get used to.

How much should I expect to pay for a mini bus over in France? Can anyone recommend something other than a mini bus, maybe with a bit of storage for luggage?

A Renault Grand Espace has seating for 7. With a roof box, you'll take their luggage too. It'll be a lot nicer to drive than a minibus, but they are expensive to rent.

If i was taking my car, what is the best way to get it over there? I hear from Rosslare to France is about €600 for a car :eek:

When I drove to Switzerland last year, I went by land-bridge through England. Stena HSS to Holyhead, 8 hour drive to Folkstone (in a 1972 car - probably 6 or 7 in a modern car) then the Chunnel to Calais. It cost €500 return +petrol and took 11 hours end-to-end. The Rosslare crossing is 16 hours (I think), but that's 16 hours that you can sleep. If you're the only licensed driver, you'll need a lot of sleep. France is vast, but the road network is outstanding so you can cross the country in 10 or 11 hours (e.g. north to south). Of course you're not supposed to drive more that 3 hours without taking a 1 hour rest, so that'll put a dent in your journey times.

Personally, I'd take the car on the Rosslare-roscoff ferry - think of all the wine you can bring back...

If you were heading to, say, Provence i'd fly-drive instead. No point wasting 2 days of your holidays driving.

murphaph

ds20prefecture wrote:

8 including driver, AFAIK.

No, the licence clearly states 1+8, that's the driver plus 8 passengers.

Stephen

I understand many car rental outfits will not rent cars to those under 25 either.

parsi

Cork - Roscoff is 12 hours and a somewhat nicer ferry.

ds20prefecture

parsi wrote:

Cork - Roscoff is 12 hours and a somewhat nicer ferry.

Interesting... that makes it a no-brainer in my eyes.

useless

Squirrel wrote:

On the continent it is law to carry a fire extinguisher, spare bulbs and a warning triangle in your car and the Police can confiscate your license if you don't have these.

Interesting. So if you hire a car in France from Hertz, Avis etc, is it reasonable to expect that they've got an extinguisher, triangle etc in all their cars? Anyone had any experience?

Borzoi

cormie wrote:

Hi,
I'm thinking of going to Europe, probably France for a week or so with a few friends. It hasn't been organised at all yet and is now just an idea. If there are enough of us, I was thinking I could maybe rent a mini bus because I'm the only one with a full licence :

Any feedback appreciated:)

Don't do it, even if you can - you'll have a pain in the arse being the only driver. Especially if the lads have a few drinks and you can't because you have to drive - which on a lads holiday is all the time

the evil belly

or make it very very clear that you expect to be kept with the non alcoholic drink of your choosing in your hand at all times in exchange for driving them around. there's an unwritten rule when myself and my mates hit the pub, the driver's kept in drinks for the night. it's cheaper than a taxi and a bit of gratitude never goes astray

cornbb

Stephen wrote:

I understand many car rental outfits will not rent cars to those under 25 either.

I tried renting a car from Europcar in sweden when I was 20. The rental guy was like "well, we don't rent cars to people under 25 but, yeah, I'll rent you a car". So I don't think its a strict rule. But at the same time I wouldn't go chancing my arm.

I found the wrong-side-of-the-road thing very easy to get used to incidentally.

Blitzkrieger

Squirrel wrote:

On the continent it is law to carry a fire extinguisher, spare bulbs and a warning triangle in your car and the Police can confiscate your license if you don't have these.

I thought that was France only? It's bollox anyway. If the car's road legal in Ireland you can take it anywhere in the EU for a holiday.

the evil belly

in fairness though it's not a bad idea to carry them anyway. don't you need spare glasses in france too?

Squirrel

the evil belly wrote:

in fairness though it's not a bad idea to carry them anyway. don't you need spare glasses in france too?

I think that's Spain and Germany only, there was something about this in the Sunday Times just there, on the inside cover of the Driving section, if anyone still has it for whatever reason perhaps they could set us straight.

youcancallmeal

Me and a few friends are renting a campervan in a few weeks to drive around europe which is kind of similar to your situation. So far these are the important things we've learned if any of them are any use to you.

- Germany is the cheapest place to rent.
- All you'll need is a valid full irish drivers licence unless you plan to go to Austria, Bulgaria, the Czech Republic, Italy, Portugal, or Spain where by law you must have international drivers permit.
- Most Campervan/car rental places we went to all had pretty much had the same conditions which were over 21(some 23), hold full licence for over a year and a large deposit was also required.
- Diesel and petrol are more expensive on mainland europe.
- Always take toll bridges into account when calculating travel costs.

You could always fly to dusseldorf or somewhere closer to france but still in germany, rent a van there then then drive into france. Check out these sites for an idea of costs.

http://www.ideamerge.com/index.html
http://www.autoeurope.com/

murphaph

youcancallme>al wrote:

...All you'll need is a valid full irish drivers licence unless you plan to go to Austria, Bulgaria, the Czech Republic, Italy, Portugal, or Spain where by law you must have international drivers permit.

No EU country (certainly not in the old 15 states) will expect an International permit if you hold an EU licence, which every currently valid licence issued here will be.

Victor

I think rental companies can get iffy about taking vehicles across borders.

ds20prefecture wrote:

Interesting... that makes it a no-brainer in my eyes.

But add back the extra driving time.

Alun

Victor wrote:

I think rental companies can get iffy about taking vehicles across borders.But add back the extra driving time.

I think it's more than a bit "iffy". It's often explicitly stated in the rental agreement that you're not allowed to take the vehicle into another country, so if you were involved in an accident you'd be on very sticky ground indeed, and I wouldn't be surprised if you weren't even insured.

ambro25

youcancallme>al wrote:

- Diesel and petrol are more expensive on mainland europe.

Not in France, Diesel < €0.97 in Moselle (dept 57) last week (was there for a family occasion), and @ €0.86 in Luxembourg on 23/07/05, last Texaco before Belgian border.

Victor wrote:

I think rental companies can get iffy about taking vehicles across borders.

Alun wrote:

I think it's more than a bit "iffy". It's often explicitly stated in the rental agreement that you're not allowed to take the vehicle into another country, so if you were involved in an accident you'd be on very sticky ground indeed, and I wouldn't be surprised if you weren't even insured.

Don't know where you guys getting this from, but I've never had any bother whatsoever on FR/GB/IE plates with (respectively) FR/GB/IE insurers for obtaining a international insurance cert (the "green card", incidentally required by Law in France if you take you car, btw). I believe that it is mandatory for any intra-EU insurance company you're with to insure you, whether you told them or not, when you're trabvelling abroad, at least third-party - can't remember EU text or Directive though, but I do remember researching that some 12 years ago when I moved to the UK.

Alun

ambro25 wrote:

Don't know where you guys getting this from, but I've never had any bother whatsoever on FR/GB/IE plates with (respectively) FR/GB/IE insurers for obtaining a international insurance cert (the "green card", incidentally required by Law in France if you take you car, btw). I believe that it is mandatory for any intra-EU insurance company you're with to insure you, whether you told them or not, when you're trabvelling abroad, at least third-party - can't remember EU text or Directive though, but I do remember researching that some 12 years ago when I moved to the UK.

We're not talking about taking your own car here, we're talking about renting a car in one country and taking it across a border into another country. A different kettle of fish altogether. Some don't allow it at all, others don't mind, but you have to make sure you tell them beforehand. Some have restrictions as to what countries you're allowed to take it into, i.e. many rental companies in Germany restrict what countries you can take a car into, and sometimes retrict which types of car you can drive where. See the Avis website for example http://tinyurl.com/8fmot and click on Einreiseverbot. It's mostly in German, but the legend for the map is in English also.

ambro25

Alun wrote:

We're not talking about taking your own car here, we're talking about renting a car in one country and taking it across a border into another country.

'Kay

Hotblack Desiato

ambro25 wrote:

the "green card", incidentally required by Law in France if you take you car, btw

Green card is long obsolete within the EU, as you're automatically covered third party across the EU (so long as you remain resident in your home country, and there may be a limit of 30 days a year)

ubu

It probably wouldnt be a problem to take it across borders but you would have to tell them and (most likely) pay extra for the pleasure aswell, e.g it costs extra to take a car rented here into northern ireland.

ambro25

ninja900 wrote:

Green card is long obsolete within the EU, as you're automatically covered third party across the EU (so long as you remain resident in your home country, and there may be a limit of 30 days a year)

Obsolete or not does not absolve you from the legal requirement in France. I have indeed stated that you're automatically covered at least 3rd-party, though the 30 days limit (or any other duration) is entirely down to the insurer's T&C.

The green card is only redundant to the extent that your certificate of insurance is multilingual. i.e. if your IE insurance cert is all in English, it will not be considered acceptable by a smurf in France (who will insist on the green card version still).

Green cards are usually available free of charge (well, at least in FRA/LUX/GER/UK) from your insurer when you notify themn sufficiently early of your intended trip, or issued to you at the same time as you insurance cert when annually renewed (in FRA). So they can be either issued for the duratino of the trip only, or with a year-long validity.

Alternatively, the reverse of your insurance cert (std A4 letter type-thing) will bear multi-lingual terms (UK ones from Admiral, Ladies Direct, Norwich Union do).

And you can quote me on that, I've had enough cars on FR plates in GB and vice-versa (GB plate in FRA) and been stopped/spot-checked enough times in both countries (and a few others) to know

gurramok

I've hired cars in Belgium twice a couple years ago, no need for permit in that country anyway, and able to travel freely to Germany/Holland.
We got stopped once at a police check on the dutch border, not a word about vehicle condition, only valid driving licence and your passport of course

Victor

gurramok wrote:

I've hired cars in Belgium twice a couple years ago, no need for permit in that country anyway, and able to travel freely to Germany/Holland.

Hire companies in smaller countries and in border areas are probably going to be more lenient.

mackerski

To follow up on a few of the previous points:

* Germany has, in the last 10 years, been reintroducing roundabouts. All work the same way as here (but mirrored), you yield to traffic on the roundabout.

* In a lot of countries, especially France, be careful of the "yield to road on right" rule, which applies unless overridden by a "you have priority" sign, generally a yellow diamond. A small one means "just this junction", a big one means until further notice (a big one struck out cancels it).

* Always tell a rental company what countries you will (or might) drive into. Most (of the big ones, anyway) won't have a problem with most of W. Europe, but they will be able to warn you of the stuff you need to have in the car. For instance, both Austria and Italy require you to have a hi-vis vest IN THE CABIN that you must don if stepping out onto a motorway (possibly some other roads) in an emergency. The cops check this and don't accept excuses.

* Some foreign laws will surprise you - in Germany, for example, you may not overtake a stopped bus at any more than walking pace.

* An EU licence is 100% acceptable in at the very least all "old" EU countries and Switzerland. I'd put good money on the new EU states too. Austria certainly doesn't require an international permit.

* If you have the Irish habit of driving in any lane you feel like, any time before travelling would be a good time to ditch it

* If any given country requires cars to carry extinguishers, spare bulbs, hi-vis vests, dominatrix outfits or whatever, then it doesn't matter how road-legal your wagon is in Ireland, you are obliged to carry the stuff. The AA has a decent dossier of the different requirements IIRC.

* Germany does not require you to carry spare specs (though it's no bad idea so far from home).

Dermot

Hotblack Desiato

ambro25 wrote:

The green card is only redundant to the extent that your certificate of insurance is multilingual. i.e. if your IE insurance cert is all in English, it will not be considered acceptable by a smurf in France (who will insist on the green card version still).

It just so happens it has one sentence on the back saying in French that I'm covered throughout the EU. That's only encouraging them to be officious TBH. We should have it in English (or Irish!) only and tell the gendarmes to stick it up their orifice if they can't understand it, we meet the EU legal requirements nonetheless.