Driving with no insurance....

rsta

Hello everyone

I drove my friends car in September last year as she was not well enough to drive, but we got stopped by a Garda who asked me for my licence and insurance.

I didnt have my licence on me, so went and produced it within the 10 days.

But now I am after getting a summons to court on the basis that I did not have insurance to drive her car...

Am i screwed?

It is my first ever offence... I would really appreciate any advice...

Much thanks

Rodney Trotter

Your fooked, and rightly so!


(That's why taxis were invented!)

Downtime

From Oasis.gov.ie

Motor insurance offences: generally punishable by a fine of up to 2,500 euro, disqualification of one year or more for a first offence and two years or more for a second offence, and, at the discretion of the court, a term of imprisonment not exceeding six months.


Since 1st June 2003, where the court decides not to impose a disqualification drivers convicted of a first offence of driving without insurance will incur 5 penalty points on their licence record in addition to any other penalty imposed by the court.

In the case of a first offence of driving without insurance, the court may decide in special cases not to impose a period of disqualification or to impose a period of disqualification of less than a year.

So what if it is a first offence - many people go through life with 0 offences, you broke the law and should pay accordingly. If you crashed into some they would be fooked too. Stuff like this drives everyone elses insurance upwards. If you had hit someone, you'd have no comeback with "It's my first offence"

BrianD3

Were you insured to drive her car when you were stopped. I.e. did you have your own insurance policy which covers you to drive other people's cars third party. If you had this then you will have no difficulty proving that you were insured to drive the car.

If not, then yes you are screwed. Expect a fine, 5 penalty points, a ban etc.

rsta

hi thanks for the replies
ive read up loads on www.oasis.gov and the www.motornet.ie websites but i would like to hear from people who have had this experience or know someone who've had this charge...
i feel like such an idiot like, and i am only after getting a car (taxed and insured..ok) about 8 months ago... i cant get banned like

would you recommend going to a solicitor or going to court alone...

thanks

rsta

Hi BrianD thank you for ur reply i thought she had an open policy as her boyfriend and sister often drive her car... but i've found out since that she doesnt have an open policy, but her boyfriend is a named driver, unlike me or her sister...
Also, this happened in September and I got my car insurance the following month..

Rodney Trotter

You need to consult with a solicitor and hire one for the day. Silly silly mistake.

BrianD3

rsta wrote:

Hi BrianD thank you for ur reply i thought she had an open policy as her boyfriend and sister often drive her car... but i've found out since that she doesnt have an open policy, but her boyfriend is a named driver, unlike me or her sister...
Also, this happened in September and I got my car insurance the following month..

Tell the court exactly what you've written in this thread. Be honest, apologetic and humble. Admit your mistake. It will be clear to the judge that you are sorry and are not a scumbag. You wil be fined and will get 5 penalty points however you might escape the ban.

Our man in Havana

Rodney Trotter wrote:

You need to consult with a solicitor and hire one for the day. Silly silly mistake.

Pointless really getting a solicitor. They cost money and do very little. Also hiring one gives the impression you have money hence a bigger fine.

Better to show up and throw yourself at the mercy of the court.

Rodney Trotter

WIth all due respect bond, that's a load of garbage. rsta is in serious trouble and needs proper legal advice, not the tripe you've just come up with.

seamus

rsta wrote:

Hi BrianD thank you for ur reply i thought she had an open policy as her boyfriend and sister often drive her car... but i've found out since that she doesnt have an open policy, but her boyfriend is a named driver, unlike me or her sister...

Consult a solicitor. I wouldn't tell the judge "I thought I was insured", as the onus is on you to ensure you're correctly insured. But a solicitor may be able to advise you on the best way to phrase/approach it.

Also, this happened in September and I got my car insurance the following month..

That's OK. At the time of getting your insurance you had no convictions or claims pending. Check the conditions of your existing insurance though. You will be probably be obliged to tell your insurer once you're convicted of driving without insurance.

Rodney Trotter

I've heard it all now. Hiring a solicitor means you have loads of money and the Judge will give you a bigger fine!


@rsta, I hope you don't take the likes of this sh1te on-board.

Our man in Havana

How many courts have you watched? I have watched enough sittings of the district court to know this.

You are best to plead your case and take your punishment. Whats a solictor going to do extra but charge you €200 for 60 secs work?

The other thing they would be useful for if one had priors and was facing a spell in the jail.

whippet

as side from hear say and speculation I believe the OP is looking for some facts.

I think I might be of assistance, a work collegue recently had the same problem, he was summonsed and facts were clear, he was banned from driving for 12 months and a couple of hundred quid fine. He didn't have legal representation with him.

He then appealled (he needs a licence for work), hired a very expensive legal team, got a date and tried to argue the case (he gave a soppy story etc ..) the judge gave back the license but imposed a €2000 fine and issued some penalty points.

The crux of the matter was he was lucky get the appeal and to get a judge willing to re-instate the licence.

All in all it cost him €2k of a fine, about the same in legal fees, two months off the road waiting on the appeal and a few points.

A lesson in hindsight is really .. don't trust anyone about insurance unless you see the policy yourself.

Our man in Havana

I wonder how much he paid for a solictor and barrister for a circuit court appeal?

The circuit court judges would be more likely to allow a restoration but they will fine the max amount.

rsta

hello thanks everyone for you replies

I just rang a solicitor out of interest, who told me he charges €200 per summons, i have 2 summons (1. not presenting insurance, 2. no insurance (user))

plus I will still have to pay any fine on top of the solicitors fees. I am not made of money and really would not like to have to pay for a solicitor too....

Another Q please, would it be a good idea to bring my friend with me to court?

Rodney Trotter

Bond-007 wrote:

How many courts have you watched? I have watched enough sittings of the district court to know this.

You are best to plead your case and take your punishment. Whats a solictor going to do extra but charge you €200 for 60 secs work?

The other thing they would be useful for if one had priors and was facing a spell in the jail.

Absolute balderdash!

Watching court proceedings qualifies you to dismiss the idea of hiring a solicitor? Well what do we need Law school for?

Our man in Havana

You could apply for free legal aid, but i doubt this is available for motoring offences.

€200 a summons? He must be used to the tribunal circuit. Seems steep to me.

Rodney, We shall just agree to differ.

SparkyLarks

rsta wrote:

Another Q please, would it be a good idea to bring my friend with me to court?

i'd go with the solicitor If I was you

400 euro isn;t that much in the big scheme of things. You might have to get a loan or borrow some form youor sister.

What is your friend going to do??

mike65

Rodney Trotter, one more intemperate outburst and you'll be banned for a week.

Mike.

kdevitt

I was in court a few months back after an uninsured driver hit me - the fact that he hit me barely got a mention in court. He got €250 fine for not being insured, €250 for not presenting his driving licence, and 6 months disqualification (reduced from a year due to his solicitor simply asking for a reduced disqualification!!)

The guards were very disappointed (as was I) as it was very lenient compared to what they were expecting... so I'd imagine that its similar enough to what you'll get. I was told you probably won't be able to insure a car for less than €5000 for about 3 years after the disqualification expires though, as you'll have an endorement... (not that it'd bother the guy who hit me, because he couldn't be arsed insuring it in the first place)

Rodney Trotter

mike65 wrote:

Rodney Trotter, one more intemperate outburst and you'll be banned for a week.

Mike.

Care to clarify your remarks?

Or define intemperate?

mike65

For a kick off attacking Bond-007 as you have. Take issue with what a fellow poster says but do so without acting like the bar-room bore.

This post did'nt help your cause, nor this one

and then this

As for moderators? Wow, I'm shaking.

I just did a seach and I see you've been away for about 7 months I'd like to say welcome back but somehow I feel I'd be lying.

Mike.

Farls

Sorry to hear about your misfortune. I think also that your better off with a solicitor, if just for peace of mind.

It's a catch 22 situation, but at the end of the day you didn't have insurance and your going to have to take whats thrown at you (sorry, i know that doesn't help)

you should get away with a reasonable fine and 6 months disqualification. After this yes your insurance will be steep for a few years. There really is no good to come out of this. It wouldn't be so bad only you have a car yourself.

Best of luck with it anyway, its far from the end of the world.

Farlz

jhegarty

rsta wrote:

and i am only after getting a car (taxed and insured..ok) about 8 months ago.

who is your insurance with ?

rsta

Thank you everyone for your replies.

Will my insurance really be so steep after this? I am already paying 1600euros as this was my first time being insured, i was hoping it would go down next time.

Is it possible i wont get disqualified? Especially as I did not own a car of my own at the time..?

Jhegarty, I am with Axa insurance.

Also, because I was served my summons on Sunday, I have heard that this is actaully illegall, will that fact help me out in any way??

Thanks

seamus

Actually, now that I think of it, get thee to a solicitor now. A Garda has to make a complaint within 6 months of the offence. Considering it's nine months later, it would be worth consulting a solicitor to see if the summons is notification of this complaint.

Edit: Actually the date the complaint was made, is written on the summons. Check it out.

Bogger77

rsta wrote:

Thank you everyone for your replies.

Will my insurance really be so steep after this? I am already paying 1600euros as this was my first time being insured, i was hoping it would go down next time.

Is it possible i wont get disqualified? Especially as I did not own a car of my own at the time..?

Jhegarty, I am with Axa insurance.

Also, because I was served my summons on Sunday, I have heard that this is actaully illegall, will that fact help me out in any way??

Thanks

It doesn't matter when the summons was served, it's been served.

jhegarty

rsta wrote:

Thank you everyone for your replies.

Will my insurance really be so steep after this? I am already paying 1600euros as this was my first time being insured, i was hoping it would go down next time.

Is it possible i wont get disqualified? Especially as I did not own a car of my own at the time..?

Jhegarty, I am with Axa insurance.

Also, because I was served my summons on Sunday, I have heard that this is actaully illegall, will that fact help me out in any way??

Thanks

Are you sure you don't have the driving other cars option with axa.. i know its on some of their policies?

rsta

Hi Seamus, the complaint date on the summons is january 5th.... Its unreal that it takes so long to process these things. Because I went in to the garda station like a couple days after, to show my provisional licence as I didnt have it on me when we were stopped. I spoke to the garda on duty who took a photocopy, i asked him what was the timeframe that i would be hearing from them if they would press charges and he said oh sure if you don't hear from us within about 6 months it has been written off or processed or he said words to that effect. Then as an afterthought he askedme my age, im 25, his immediate response then was ah well you'll be grand then don't worry about it at all.... So now I'm getting a summons 10 months after this....

I'm so afraid of getting banned, is it likely i will be banned??

Oh just to paint a picture of me i'm 25, not a racer driver, have a full time permanent job and have no convictions or points on my licence, never been caught speeding, just thought that info might help with your advice... thank you so much everyone for replying.

rsta

jhegarty wrote:

Are you sure you don't have the driving other cars option with axa.. i know its on some of their policies?

Hi Jhegarty, no as i have only a provisional licence i am not covered to drive other cars. i rang them up yesterday to check. They said if i had a full licence i would be covered though...

Also, i was stopped for driving my friends car 2 weeks before i got my own car and insurance...

seamus

rsta wrote:

I'm so afraid of getting banned, is it likely i will be banned??

Each case is different. I'd strongly advise talking to a solicitor.

kdevitt

As mentioned below, speak to a solicitor... the way that judges treat each case is completely different (shouldn't be, but hey thats Ireland for you!)

Solicitor will say in court that you're an upstanding member of society, this was a bad judgement call on your part, you'll be unable to work without your licence blah blah. The fact that you're working full time may work against you when it comes to a fine though...being honest with you though, I've never heard of any uninsured driver getting away without some form of disqualification (I know of 4 or 5 cases)

jhegarty

rsta wrote:

Hi Jhegarty, no as i have only a provisional licence i am not covered to drive other cars. i rang them up yesterday to check. They said if i had a full licence i would be covered though...

Also, i was stopped for driving my friends car 2 weeks before i got my own car and insurance...

ouch... Get a solicitor and throw yourself at the mercy of the court....

Genghis

rsta,

I would urge you to speak to a solicitor. In the first instance the delay in the summons being delivered / issued may be a technicality on which you get off. If you do need to go to court, the solicitor will be best positioned to advise you on your plea / defence, and therefore to minimise the punishment.

In your favour, you seem like had no intention to break the law (that's not to say you disn't), you had been "advised" that you were covered on your friends insurance (which is not to say that you had no responsibility to check this) and, thankfully, you were not involved in any incident (thus limiting any actual damage as a result of your actions - though not of course the potential damage you might have caused).

I would expect some punishment, hefty penalty points and a fine perhaps. You will be paying for this in terms of a) fines imposed, b) court fees (if applicable), c) solicitors fees and d) future insurance payments. By paying c) you can increase your chances of reducing a), b) and c).

By the way - is your friend going to contribute? She would appear to be culpable in my eyes - she knowingly let you drive her car without insurance and either didn't tell you you weren't covered, or allowed you to assume you were.

Littlemonkey

Hi Rsta,

I am new here but i just wanted to let you know, my brother was in court for not having tax and for speeding, last march and he was told not to bother getting a solicitor, as it was just a waste of money, but on the day the judge asked him why he didn't have a solicitor and that because he didn't bother hiring one that it showed he wasn't remorseful for what he had done and she banned him off the road for 6 months gave him 4 points and fined him €350, He appealled it but it cost him a lot more in the long run as he had to pay for a barrister, which cost €700 for about 5 mins, So i would seriously advise you to get one,

blastman

Littlemonkey wrote:

Hi Rsta,

I am new here but i just wanted to let you know, my brother was in court for not having tax and for speeding, last march and he was told not to bother getting a solicitor, as it was just a waste of money, but on the day the judge asked him why he didn't have a solicitor and that because he didn't bother hiring one that it showed he wasn't remorseful for what he had done and she banned him off the road for 6 months gave him 4 points and fined him €350, He appealled it but it cost him a lot more in the long run as he had to pay for a barrister, which cost €700 for about 5 mins, So i would seriously advise you to get one,

And therein is the logic of the Irish legal system, as also demonstrated by the conflicting advice given on this thread. Do I hire a solicitor and look too well-off? Not hire one and not appear remorseful enough? Why not give judges a shiny €2 coin and let them toss for a verdict. That seems to be the way it works anyway, might as well make it official.

LundiMardi

Sorry but wtf?

You didn't have any insurance so how did you not know that you weren't insured on your friends car, do you smell that? it's kinda rank.. what is it? oh oh it's BULL ****.

The fact that you're only holding a Provision licence at the time AND didn't have it on you will work against you too.

You'll be lucky you don't go to prison, take the fine you'll get, sell your car to pay for the fine and catch the bus from now on.

Dades

rsta - don't bother going to court - it appears you have already been judged.

rsta

Hello again everyone,

Thank you for all replies and for that info Littlemonkey, it really just goes to show there is no definate way this will come out for me, as Seamus said earlier, every case is different... Even though i don't have the money for it, i'll get a loan, I think it certainly is best to go with a solicitor.. expect the worst and hope for the best...

And lundimandi, my friend had said she was sure she had an open policy, and we assumed that would include me driving her car. its only since i have got my own car that i know more about insurance now and how it works.

landser

Bond-007 wrote:

Rodney, We shall just agree to differ.

you can agree anything you like with him, doesn't mean that what your saying isn't rubbish!

rsta, good to see you're going to get a solicitor. there could be issues regarding when the summons was issued, how and when served etc. that you will need legal advice on. The problem with solicitors fees are, if you get off, even if he charged a grand, you'll think it good value, conversely, if you lose and he charged you a tenner, you'll think it a waste of money.

unless you can get off om a technicality, you will be done for driving with no insurance.

In_the_sea

I think that someone who doesnt have insurance and is still driving around is totally wrong..
I wouldnt drive unless I had insurance and Its so hard for me to maintain the payment for my insurance even though i have a full licence...Why should people with a first provisional licence and no insurance drive around when they are breaking the law and I would not do something like that?? ITs not fair, I had to be accompanied by a qualified driver on my first, I had to have my L plates up and pay for insurance I worked hard for..I passed my test and im enjoying the satisfaction of not having L plates being allowed to drive on my own...
Why should anyone else be any different..Plus a lot of them drive like lunatics.
:mad:

rsta

In_the_sea wrote:

I think that someone who doesnt have insurance and is still driving around is totally wrong..

I do have insurance, if you read the thread from the beginning you will see that it was a one off mistake i made by driving my friends car as she was unable to.

By the way, its not my first provisional............

Thanks for your comment

20 Times 20 Times

I know this is really sounding silly but would you get away with saying taht your friend was taking you for a driving lesson it worked for a mate of mine before when he was stopped . eh but obvious that its gone past that stage now

to be honest driving with no insurance is scum , i pay 4000e a year for mine the thoughts of some scum with no insurance hitting me seriuosly annoys me

rsta

Sarge wrote:

I know this is really sounding silly but would you get away with saying taht your friend was taking you for a driving lesson it worked for a mate of mine before when he was stopped . eh but obvious that its gone past that stage now

to be honest driving with no insurance is scum , i pay 4000e a year for mine the thoughts of some scum with no insurance hitting me seriuosly annoys me

Thanks Sarge! thats funny. but i am so silly(?) i was completely honest with the cop and told him everything. another friend said to me 'you should have just made up a name and address.... how would they find you if u didnt show i.d. or it wasn't ur car even? u would have got away with it'... oh well.

But i do agree, driving without insurance is not a good idea, i've never done it since or before that.

Sure, i was teaching my boyfriend how to drive a while back and wouldnt let him drive my car out of the B&Q carpark were we practiced unless he got insured on it...

Anyone who knows me, knows how I am about the law...

One stupid mistake, cos I cared about my friend eh...

LundiMardi

sorry, that's more BS i smell, ever heard of a taxi? I wouldn't EVER drive a car on the ASSUMPTION i was insured. You knew you were in the wrong at the time and still did it.

rsta

Ah God Lundimandi give me a break, i know i was wrong, do u need to keep going on about it......

20 Times 20 Times

yeah in fairness i wouldnt drive any ones car not insured and i would rate my driving very very highly i can pilot anything to be honest , you knew you were wrong and it was still done so to be fair you deserve what you get , i pay 4grand a year to have the safe knowledge that if anything happened me and the third party our covered.

DubTony

rsta wrote:

.... another friend said to me 'you should have just made up a name and address.... how would they find you if u didnt show i.d. or it wasn't ur car even? u would have got away with it'... oh well.

Good job you don't listen to your friends. This would have gottn you in serious trouble when the Gardai arrived at your friends house.

As for driving on open insurance; the last time I had an open policy it insured drivers over the age of 25 with a full licence.

If you haven't hired a solicitor yet, get one, and hope the judge is sympathetic.

Tomohawk

posted by Sarge
...i would rate my driving very very highly i can pilot anything to be honest , you knew you were wrong and it was still done so to be fair you deserve what you get , i pay 4grand a year...

If you are such a good driver, why are you paying 4 grand in insurance??? :eek:

In_the_sea

rsta wrote:

I do have insurance, if you read the thread from the beginning you will see that it was a one off mistake i made by driving my friends car as she was unable to.

By the way, its not my first provisional............

Thanks for your comment

I wasnt having a personal attack at u..i was just airing my view on the general problem...not an attack at u..i was replying to the post title not ur situation..sorry if i put it across wrong.