Bull S*** Litter Fine....arrggggggg!!

Cianos

Ok, I just got a letter from The Litter Pollution Acts people informing me I have been fined €125 for littering! What can I do!?

Heres the story;
I cycled out to Sandyford industrial estate to pick up a package (a laptop from the states). The laptop came in a box anyway, with all that foamy stuff that protects it. I had a bag with me, so I put the laptop and accessories in my bag and was left with the empty box. I was cycling around for ages seeing if there was a bin around for the empty box, which there wasnt. Then I spotted a bottle bank, with about 4 of those big plastic bottle recycling yokes. So I decided that is as close to a bin as Im going to get. So I left the box neatly beside one of the containers, and thought that was that.

Did I think of removing my name and address...no.

So, now I get this letter saying I have to pay up or face prosecution.

Can I appeal or do something to that effect? I think this is a bit extreme.

And I wouldnt mind, but I NEVER litter...Im almost obsessive about it actually.

:mad:

dregin

Who're you expecting to give you sympathy? You littered. Whether it was "neat" littering or not. It's against the law.

Tbh, you didn't take your addy off, adding to the newbness of it all.

Sleipnir

That is littering!
What did you leave at the bottle bank? Foam? Cardboard?

If the "closest thing I can find to a bin" is my neighbours garden, does that mean it's okay?

Pay your fine, you owe it.

karlh

you did leave empty packaging in public.

hate to be a stickler but you knew it wasn't a bottle and someone else would just have to pick it up and put it in a bin for you.

no different than just throwing it in a ditch when you were done with it IMO.

sucks and seems hefty but i don't think there's anything you can/should do.

Shabadu

This is fúcking typical- you see police not even batting an eye when some scobe throws whatever junk he feels like onto the street, but because you can't find a bin and left a box in a recycling plant you get fined. Ah the government- screwing it up again.

Cianos

Technically its obviously littering...you dont need to point that out. But do you not think it is a bit extreme given the circumstances? If you were cycling around with a box, and couldnt find a bin, what would you do in that circumstance?

EDIT: Besides ripping your address off before doing anything of course

Gazza22

Yeah that must be a bummer having to pay that amount of money, sympathise with you there but...

Cianos wrote:

Can I appeal or do something to that effect? I think this is a bit extreme.

No you can't appeal, you have been caught fair and square! It's not extreme because it would be the same for a person caught spitting chewing gum out of their mouth walking down a street...

Cianos wrote:

And I wouldnt mind, but I NEVER litter...Im almost obsessive about it actually.

Well then you will understand that if you litter theres a consequence...hum never? but you did litter!

Esel

Cianos wrote:

.. If you were cycling around with a box, and couldnt find a bin, what would you do in that circumstance?

Keep cycling?

What is the law on this anyway? Just because the rubbish has your name/address on it does not prove that you dumped it, unless you subsequently admit doing so.

BTW, I am not condoning littering.

Zapho

So doesnt this all mean that if you were pissed off with your neightbours, then you could just get a box, slap their address on it, leave it somewhere and they will get fined?

Sleipnir

what would be your grounds for an appeal?

I wouldn't try
"I couldn't find a bin"
that's for sure!

Gazza22

esel wrote:

What is the law on this anyway? Just because the rubbish has your name/address on it does not prove that you dumped it, unless you subsequently admit doing so.

No once they can prove that it is your rubbish (and which they obviously have in this case), they can prosecute.

It doesn't matter if somebody else dumped it for you, it's your responsibility. For example alot of people who pay the travelling community to take away rubbish get fined if the rubbish can be traced back to them.

TerrorFirmer

Zapho wrote:

So doesnt this all mean that if you were pissed off with your neightbours, then you could just get a box, slap their address on it, leave it somewhere and they will get fined?

LMFAO

classic

Gazza22

Muhahahaha yeah i can really see myself doing that on a grumpy man that lives near me!

Shabadu

Zapho wrote:

So doesnt this all mean that if you were pissed off with your neightbours, then you could just get a box, slap their address on it, leave it somewhere and they will get fined?

/me makes note to add addresses to enemies list

Kingsize

you can always go to court & fight yr case based on what youve said up there, hoping that the judge will be sympathetic.
slightly off topic but about a year ago i reprted someone for littering in my neighbourhood some bastard just fukked his empty chip bag out of the window of his snazzy jeep(which was a 2004 kildare reg BTW)
sure enough i got a call telling me that i'd be required to go as a witness in the court case fair enuff i was ready to do my bit
about a week later i was called & told that the person who littered could not be found at the adrress registered to the car.
This was due to the driver's "Travelling" activities - draw yr own conclusions

BizzyC

In fairness, you littered, you were fined, end of story.

I think you could've been done for throwing the box etc into a regular bin aswell.

Gazza22

Shabadu wrote:

This is fúcking typical- you see police not even batting an eye when some scobe throws whatever junk he feels like onto the street, but because you can't find a bin and left a box in a recycling plant you get fined. Ah the government- screwing it up again.

No, i seen a Garda making a scanger pick up a empty crisp packet he threw on the ground in town.

Scanger does it but can't help adding in a bit of cheek so is dragged off to the sidestreet for a talk..hahaha laughed my ass off at him

Oh and it was a bottle bank, nothing to do with paper, so he was in the wrong!

Will the pirates be calling on my door now for questioning Shabadu

alleepally

There's no point in trying to wriggle out of this. Just pay the fine and move on and learn a lesson.

What bugs me is that here in the Garden County I've seen more zeal and determination in prosecuting people dropping a cigarette butt on the ground or whatever and yet, I've not seen prosecutions or massive fines for the scandalous cases of widescale commercial dumping carried on all over County Wicklow. Not only that, but council officials didn't seem to do anything about the issue when it was reported to them if we believe the RTE prime time documentaries.

Gazza22

Yeah it's amazing what brown paper envelopes can do these days

Cianos

In cases like this, who would you appeal to? I doubt a judge would process cases like this?

I would sincerely understand if I had just thrown the box on the side of the road, and went on my merry way. I didnt however. I made the effort to find the most suitable place given the circumstances. When I was leaving the box where I put it, I even took all the foamy bits from inside the box, and put them in a plastic bag that was left on the ground beside the bottle bank (see, other people litter too!). I tied a knot in the bag and left it beside, or in (cant remember which) the cardboard box so it would be easy for the bin guys to deal with it. And no, it was too dangerous to continue cycling with the box, as my control of the bike was seriousley effected. It is a busy enough area and I didnt want to have an accident.

Larianne

Cianos wrote:

Technically its obviously littering...you dont need to point that out. But do you not think it is a bit extreme given the circumstances? If you were cycling around with a box, and couldnt find a bin, what would you do in that circumstance?

No, not extreme. You littered, simple. I hate the attitude of some Irish people about littering. Just feckin laziness. Why could you not have kept the box until you found a bin??

I do think that there definately should be more bins about the place but I still see people walking straight past bins and throwing there wrappers/bottles/can/butts on the ground. :mad: OR people who place bags of rubbish beside bins thinking they'll get collected, where more often than not a dog will come along rip open the bag and then the sh*t is all over the ground.

And people wonder why Dublin is such a kip!! :rolleyes:

alleepally

This prompted me to do a quick search and see what happened relating to the big dump found out at Blessington.

Quote from Green Party site :

""In his decision the DPP ruled that only those who 'knowingly ' allow illegal waste dumped on their land can be eligible for prosecution for these activities"

So, while you could have someone take a bag outside your house and dump it somewhere without you knowing, you can and will be prosecuted. If you are a large company and have huge amounts of waste being dumped on your land, you can't be prosecuted if you plead that "you didn't know".

Hmm, Banana Republic.

Read it and weep

http://www.greenparty.ie/en/news/latest_news/illegal_dumping_in_wicklow_must_be_investigated_by_mahon_tribunal

Shabadu

gazza22 wrote:

No, i seen a Garda making a scanger pick up a empty crisp packet he threw on the ground in town.

Scanger does it but can't help adding in a bit of cheek so is dragged off to the sidestreet for a talk..hahaha laughed my ass off at him

Oh and it was a bottle bank, nothing to do with paper, so he was in the wrong!

Will the pirates be calling on my door now for questioning Shabadu

Really? Because I cannot count the number of times i've seen the gardaí ignore people littering right under their noses on O'Connell st., on one occasion, when they were talking to the litterer, presumably about something else. It has cheered me up that at least one has been stopped..

No comment about the pirates, but you may expect a large bill from the council due to irresponsible waste disposal.

Cianos

As I said in my original post, I never usually litter. Except for apple butts and banana skins or whatever, and I would throw them into a bush or on the grass because they are composty. There are feck all bins in Dublin, and it seems they are seldomly serviced aswell. I dont know why they just dont install more bins? What is with the blindness to the most practical solution!? The streets are dirty...we have no bins..., sorry, could someone tell me what 2+2 equals?

Gazza22

Cianos wrote:

In cases like this, who would you appeal to? I doubt a judge would process cases like this?

A judge? no not unless you planning on taking on a legal bill of thousands to satisfy a €125 fine!

The fine should have appeals information on it or at the least an address to write to. Maybe your local County Council will be able to deal with it.

Gazza22

Shabadu wrote:

Really? Because I cannot count the number of times i've seen the gardaí ignore people littering right under their noses on O'Connell st., on one occasion, when they were talking to the litterer, presumably about something else. It has cheered me up that at least one has been stopped..

Well maybe they just pick on the Northsiders or scangers, is there a difference?

That was a kid around 14, maybe they just couldn't be bothered getting into an arguement with an adult. Too much paperwork

Hobbes

I don't know about recycling sites but in work we have recycling bins. If you contaminate the bin with the wrong waste they throw everything in that bin into the general trash.

So its possible you contaminated the bottle bank.

Larianne

Cianos wrote:

As I said in my original post, I never usually litter. QUOTE]

Yes, (gonna sound like a ranting auld granny) but if everyone thought that way, "oh just this once", this city, country would be even filthier!!

Sorry, littering really annoys me and there's no excuse for it. It's all about being taught about it when young and that it's wrong and disgusting. And there being not enough bins around still ain't an excuse, but one Irish people will use!! :rolleyes:

WizZard

There's feck all bins in the Sandyford Industrial Estate tbh. I doubt you'll get off but maybe a letter to the council would help?

Lemlin

You shouldn't of littered... full stop. I'm not even from Dublin and I'm sick of seeing people throwing litter on the ground. No wonder the place is turning into a tip.

AdMMM

I just don't think there are enough bins at all! I actually asked the Councils Waste Awareness Officer why that was and she said that they don't put any bins near residential property because of the risk that people would be dumping their household rubbish into them!

Boggle

Correct me if I'm wrong but youcan't get fined in most towns for throwing cigarettes on the streets as there are no suitable bins (aka ashtrays) (you can get fined for throwing it out of your car though!)

Could you not argue the same? If there was no suitable bin and you could not safely transport the rubbish then surely you can argue that you made every effort to dispose of the rubbish and opted for the best available option...

shellby

WizZard wrote:

There's feck all bins in the Sandyford Industrial Estate tbh. I doubt you'll get off but maybe a letter to the council would help?

i agree you are better off paying the fine but then bring attention to the lack of bins in the area
are you p1ssed off by the fine or about the circumstances because there is v little you can do about the fine but you might be able to change future circumstances

Larianne

Boggle wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong but youcan't get fined in most towns for throwing cigarettes on the streets as there are no suitable bins (aka ashtrays) (you can get fined for throwing it out of your car though!)

Could you not argue the same? If there was no suitable bin and you could not safely transport the rubbish then surely you can argue that you made every effort to dispose of the rubbish and opted for the best available option...

Is that true about cigerette butts??? :eek: When I used to smoke, I carried around the butt until I found a bin! No joke!

And about not being able to carry the box around, he managed to carry his new laptop around with him!!!

Sorry there's no excuse!!

BizzyC

There's no way in hell that you'll get away with it.
You knowingly littered, so it's a fine. If you weren't able to cycle with the box, then you could have walked until you found a bin.
All you can do is call the coucil to get more bins put in.

Kingsize

i dont think the "no bins around" arguement holds sway, theres a serious lack of public toilet facilites in dublin but the gardai usually charge people with public urination & or indecent exposure if they catch 'em.
you could always lie & say that you disposed of it properly & had no idea how it ended up there though there are peobably hidden cameras near the recycling place cos youd be amazed at the shyte that gets thrown there.
Ring the litter warden or the council, explain your story & that you cannot afford to pay the fine but you might willing to pay part of the fine.
i know this has been done before but its usually in the case of multiple offence/fines (E.G somebody distributing flyers).
it might save you some cash

egan007

Cianos wrote:

As I said in my original post, I never usually litter. Except for apple butts and banana skins or whatever, and I would throw them into a bush or on the grass because they are composty. There are feck all bins in Dublin, and it seems they are seldomly serviced aswell. I dont know why they just dont install more bins? What is with the blindness to the most practical solution!? The streets are dirty...we have no bins..., sorry, could someone tell me what 2+2 equals?

But you did actually litter.

It's true there are not enough bins but leaving litter elsewhere is not an option - we need to learn that, seemingly the hard way.

There is no single solution to a litter problem there must be more bins and people must use them. Actually we really need to use less packaging and stop generating the waste...

You have not right to complain about it unless you do something about it - write to the corporation and address your concerns.

Anyway i believe more bins is just attacking the problem from the wrong end - like ASBOS...;)

If you tought about how you were going to transport a laptop which would obviously be packaged heavily if it's comming from the states they you would of realised that you needed a bigger bag or that you would have to dispose of the packaging somewhere - now you assumed you whould have a bin to do it - but still you seem to know that there are not enough bins in dublin

irlirishkev

Cianos wrote:

.. I never usually litter. Except for apple butts and banana skins or whatever, and I would throw them into a bush or on the grass because they are composty.

Composty they may be, but it still looks like shyte to see apple butts and banana skins on the ground..

Leaving boxes beside recycling units, throwing apple butts and banana skins into bushes.. I see a pattern, and it spells out 'litter'.

I appreciate you had the best of intentions, but, pay the fine and stop throwing crap on the streets.

skibum

A few years ago my car was stolen and later recovered, thats all fine and dandy, but while the little scumbags were "joyriding" they threw out over 5000 leaflet's that I had just got printed for a business that I was running at the time. I get notice from the litter boy's that if I didn't recover all the leaflets now scattered around Ballinteer I would be fined etc. I was pissed off as "I" didn't do the littering, made a few phone calls only to be told "tough ****, it's now your problem".
Spent an afternoon with my brother and a couple of mates picking the bloody things up. :mad:

GreeBo

Cianos wrote:

it was too dangerous to continue cycling with the box, as my control of the bike was seriousley effected. It is a busy enough area and I didnt want to have an accident.

reminds me of the time I had a bunch of Asbestos to remove from my roof.
Tried to bring it to the dump but it was too dangerous in the car with all the particles so I found a GAA pitch and hit it in the bushes.
To make it easier for the council to clean up I put it into some plastic bags.
I also let my dog crap all over the pitch becase I couldnt find a pooper scooper nearby.

cormie

irlirishkev wrote:

Leaving boxes beside recycling units, throwing apple butts and banana skins into bushes.. I see a pattern, and it spells out 'litter'.

The difference is one is good for the environment, it's hardly littering if you are helping the environment no matter how aesthetically unpleasing it looks to us humans. I'd consider road signs, concrete and even bins more like litter rather than an apple. Report the council for littering our natural habitat with their roads and walls :rolleyes:

The whole thing is typical, I mean the amount of effort he went through is allot more than most would. Anyway, if he kept cycling and was knocked down and had to be rushed to hospital, who would be expected to pick up the box and all the foam which would have then been scattered all over the ground? Would he have got a fine then because he left his box behind?

ADUB?

OP
Nobody is more deserving of a litter fine than you. You littered full stop end of story.
It's little Sh*tes like you saying its not littering that have the place so dirty!
Stop complaining, if you feel hard done by GOOD, and stop littering.

cormie

ADUB? wrote:

OP
Nobody is more deserving of a litter fine than you. You littered full stop end of story.
It's little Sh*tes like you saying its not littering that have the place so dirty!
Stop complaining, if you feel hard done by GOOD, and stop littering.

Ah now here. No it's not. How is nobody more deserving of a fine than him? Seriously.

What would you have done sir?

egan007

cormie wrote:

The difference is one is good for the environment, it's hardly littering if you are helping the environment no matter how aesthetically unpleasing it looks to us humans.

You could not be more wrong - littering is leaving stuff that is aesthetically unpleasing to humans - who do we keep it clean for, the cows?
Whether is't beneficial to the grass is a sidebar - the problem is that people confuse the "Environment" with the air and water etc...where is it everything
environment-

environment....
The totality of circumstances surrounding an organism or group of organisms, especially the combination of external physical conditions that affect and influence the growth, development, and survival of organisms.

cormie wrote:

I'd consider road signs, concrete and even bins more like litter rather than an apple. Report the council for littering our natural habitat with their roads and walls :rolleyes:

You seem to contradict yourself here - First you made the point that it's not litering just because it's not pleasing to the eye then you suggest these things are littering because they are not pleasing to the eye?

cormie wrote:

The whole thing is typical, I mean the amount of effort he went through is allot
more than most would.

No marks for effort - It's not a competition to see now near someone can get to a bin...

cormie wrote:

Anyway, if he kept cycling and was knocked down and had to be rushed to hospital, who would be expected to pick up the box and all the foam which would have then been scattered all over the ground? Would he have got a fine then because he left his box behind?

This is completely nonsensical and unrelated

egan007

cormie wrote:

Ah now here. No it's not. How is nobody more deserving of a fine than him? Seriously.

What would you have done sir?

egan007 wrote:

If you tought about how you were going to transport a laptop which would obviously be packaged heavily if it's comming from the states they you would of realised that you needed a bigger bag or that you would have to dispose of the packaging somewhere - now you assumed you whould have a bin to do it - but still you seem to know that there are not enough bins in dublin

.

SirLemonhead

ADUB? wrote:

OP
Nobody is more deserving of a litter fine than you. You littered full stop end of story.
It's little Sh*tes like you saying its not littering that have the place so dirty!
Stop complaining, if you feel hard done by GOOD, and stop littering.

Wow, that's fairly harsh.. So he's no worse than someone who wouldn't pick up dog crap his dog left behind when out for a walk, or someone who'd dump a bin bag full of stinking organic food waste?

Yeah, he littered, and probably hasn't any right to complain about it, but really, a cardboard box and some foam is hardly the worst thing in the world...

cormie

I really don't care if its aesthetically unpleasing as long as it's good for the environment, sure I throw all orange peels and apple cores in my back garden. They could go in the general waste bin but they are better with the soil. I think it's ridiculous that something that is good for the environment is considered litter just because it's aesthetically unpleasing. If an apple falls off an apple tree and rolls onto the pavement. Is that littering by the owner of the apple tree? How about if somebody picks up that apple, decides to take a few bites and place it down 20 feet away, is that then considered littering? Where do you draw the line?

Road signs/concrete etc are hardly good for the environment, think of all the insects killed in the laying of a road. Think of all the insects who will benefit from an apple. Big difference in the two environmentally wise.

He did say he was cycling around for ages. One would think that if they were going to pick up a package and could only fit the item contained within in their bag that they would then be able to find a bin. Yes, he said there aren't enough bins, which there aren't, but it's already been stated that there are practically no bins in Sandyford Ind. Estate. If he is unfamiliar with that area then he wouldn't know this and could assume since it's still Dublin county there will be at least one bin on his travels because yes there are bins in Dublin city, or where he may be familiar with, but just not enough.

GreeBo

MasterOfSolos wrote:

Wow, that's fairly harsh.. So he's no worse than someone who wouldn't pick up dog crap his dog left behind when out for a walk, or someone who'd dump a bin bag full of stinking organic food waste?

So if these people left their stinking dog crap in nicecardboard boxes at a recycling centre you wouldnt mind?
madness.

SirLemonhead

GreeBo wrote:

So if these people left their stinking dog crap in nicecardboard boxes at a recycling centre you wouldnt mind?
madness.

Yeah I would mind...i'm just making the point that a cardboard box alone isn't worse than what I mentioned..Combining the two just means you have a smelly dog turd in a box

GreeBo

but your point is that there are different levels of what is litter.
so where do you draw the line?
maybe Im crazy, but I call litter, litter.
Fruit falls from the trees everyday and will do so whether humans are around or not, dogs will crap on the ground likewise.
A cardboard box with styrofoam in it will never naturally make its way to the ground.

SirLemonhead

GreeBo wrote:

but your point is that there are different levels of what is litter.
so where do you draw the line?
maybe Im crazy, but I call litter, litter.
Fruit falls from the trees everyday and will do so whether humans are around or not, dogs will crap on the ground likewise.
A cardboard box with styrofoam in it will never naturally make its way to the ground.

My first post in this thread was in response to the guy who said "Nobody is more deserving of a litter fine than you"

There IS different levels of littering, and i'm just saying what he did wasn't the worst