Orderin' guitars

Rozie

There's a guitar I really want that music123.com have dirt cheap.

But after the UPS thread, I'm not so sure. And tax could be huge.

Should I hold out for euorpean Ebay to turn something up first? Or will this still be the best deal?

Thanks.

Karl Hungus

Read this.

What's the guitar btw?

Rozie

The Washburn WG587 I posted earlier. Fell in love with it.

Need to get a Blaze 7 + Coil tapp thing going on though. But I don't need it right away.

Are Woodwind and Brasswind the same as Music123? They're very similiar.

Ravelleman

Every shipping company and online store will get horror stories like that. They don't happen every day though so don't be worried. Anyway, if the item is insured you should be alright. Sometimes the feds miss a package or two and you want be taxed, sometimes you get taxed months later and other times you get taxed on arrival. It's hit and miss. Don't rule out ebay USA. You can get some really great deals on guitars there. Ask them to ship USPS (United States Postal Service) and the shipping will be nice and cheap.

Rozie

I read through all the reviews and there were no shipping complaints.

I'd rather buy off US ebay though, because I can get cheaper shipping and afford insurance then.

There's a black version of the guitar going for still cheap on german ebay. When a red one comes, I'll offer to pay extra for shipping to Ireland.

Karl Hungus

If I was you Rozie, I'd wait a while and see if I could afford a better 7 string.

Ravelleman

I would too.

Rozie

What's wrong with the Washburn one? It was released for between $600-800. It's the same quality as guitars of that price, and nobody really needs a guitar of more than that price. The only thing that's much wrong with it is the pickups which are stock, but I hear they still sound wonderful.

Karl Hungus

Rozie wrote:

and nobody really needs a guitar of more than that price.

I'd beg to differ there.

Rozie

What guitars would I need that are more expensive than around $800?

I find cost usually isn't that proportionate to quality, my Pacifica 112 should be a piece of crap, but it's not.

And I don't see what's wrong with the Washburn. It's a great guitar that got great reviews.

Ravelleman

Wow, that's a fairly large mark down. Then again the RRP on guitars is always rediculously high. Online stores always sell for a lot less.

Some people need expensive guitars. In general the average player doesn't need them. They're just nice to have. I'm not a cork sniffer though. My guitar is Korean.

Karl Hungus

Rozie wrote:

What guitars would I need that are more expensive than around $800?

Well I don't claim to know what guitar you'd need, but you said nobody needs a more expensive guitar, and that dog just won't hunt, you dig?

Rozie wrote:

I find cost usually isn't that proportionate to quality, my Pacifica 112 should be a piece of crap, but it's not.

And I don't see what's wrong with the Washburn. It's a great guitar that got great reviews.

Seriously, I've not played it, but I just get suspiscious of guitars that cost $200. Never been a fan of Washburns though, and they're hardly the first name that I'd think of when it comes to 7 strings, but I'm speculating really. It could be a pile of dung, or it could be a darn chipper guitar.

LundiMardi

if someone was to find a very cheap guitar of high quality build and sound, then it's simply because you're too inexperienced to know the difference. Your opinion will change.

Rozie

LundiMardi wrote:

if someone was to find a very cheap guitar of high quality build and sound, then it's simply because you're too inexperienced to know the difference. Your opinion will change.

Then why was nearly every review online a 5/5 or at least a 4/5? Are that many people REALLY that inexperienced?

LundiMardi

well, yes.

LundiMardi

it's simple fact that a cheaply built guitar is inferior to an guitar built at expense at least 80% of the time.

Buying a guitar is one of the few things where the phrase ''you get what you pay for'' is correct.

Beecher

Be vary wary of UPS, im still waiting on 2 guitars ive ordered, an acoustic that was shipped 3 1/2 months ago off ebay and an Ibanez off chrisguitars that was shipped 6 weeks ago, so in the extra time the guitar would prob take to get to you off music123 you could prob save up enough more for a better 7 string and still have it before the washburn would arrive!

Rozie

LundiMardi wrote:

it's simple fact that a cheaply built guitar is inferior to an guitar built at expense at least 80% of the time.

Buying a guitar is one of the few things where the phrase ''you get what you pay for'' is correct.

I'm sorry, I may not be a techie expert(Apart from with pedals)but I'm not quite as inexperienced as you think.

For instance, how much do you *really* know about Gibson?

If a guitar is good, it doesn't matter how much it costs. Some of the reviewers, in fact many, where ones who had owned professional level instruments and couldn't find a different quality.

My Pacifica isn't worth much more than $200, but it plays and sounds as good as most $400 instruments.

It's not a $200 guitar. It's an $600-800 guitar that was already good value that's *out of production* and now being sold off dirt cheap to get rid of overstock. In a year or two, they'll be impossible to get.

Karl Hungus

So you won't be buying yourself one of these any time soon then Rozie?

Rozie

No.

The Wasburn is meant to have one of the best 7 string necks ever, and I prefer it to any of the Ibanez guitars I've seen.

Maybe some day I'll fork out a ton for a "great" guitar. I prefer to spend my money on expanding my tone rather than getting the "sought after" tone that still only does one thing.

Thus is the mantra of an effects whore.

Plus, I just plain like that guitar. I've seen a lot of necks, and that one looks almost identical to my friend's washburn, which I have played, and is ****ing sweet.

EDIT: Haha, that guitar has the same pickups I'm getting(at a later date). Shame there's no single coil on the Washburn, but there is a special edition of it that does have it in the mid position, I'll keep my eyes out for it.

Karl Hungus

Rozie wrote:

I prefer to spend my money on expanding my tone rather than getting the "sought after" tone that still only does one thing.

Thus is the mantra of an effects whore.

The tone is all in the fingers. I can do more and get far more varied sounds with a single channel amp than if I had a floor full of effects. I'd prefer to be able to do a great many things with my playing alone, and not let effects get in the way of the sound.

LundiMardi

Rozie wrote:

My Pacifica isn't worth much more than $200, but it plays and sounds as good as most $400 instruments..

A $400 instrument is STILL a cheap instrument.

Rozie wrote:

It's not a $200 guitar. It's an $600-800 guitar that was already good value that's *out of production* and now being sold off dirt cheap to get rid of overstock. In a year or two, they'll be impossible to get.

Don't believe everything you read on the internet, if it's really worth $800 they certainly wouldn't be selling it for 200, that like selling a Les Paul half price, it's just not done. If you read the harmony central reviews, not many payed more than 300 for it.

You'll also find that when people review, they do actuall review in a quality-price ratio, as in if it's $200 and plays pretty good, then they give it a high mark out of ten, because it's good for the price paid.

If a Gibson Les Paul has an overall rating on Harmony Central of 9.5/10, and your washburn has the same rating, that doesn't mean they are of the same quality.

Moral of the story as always is, you get what you pay for.

Ravelleman

The Washburn isn't an $800 guitar. That's the RRP which is always significantly higher than the sale price, especially with Washburns!

A lot of online reviews are hilariously exaggerated. Some are written by the manufacturer. Others are written by the seller. Take them with a pinch of salt.

Yes it has been marked down in price a lot but in comparison to other guitars that should supposedly be in the same price range, the features aren't even that impressive. The finish is flat and opaque. The body is made of basswood (which isn't necessarily a bad thing but it is undoubtedly a cheap material to use). The inlays are plastic dots. The pickups aren't aftermarket brand name.

There are better deals out there. Schecter make nice 7 stringers, for instance.

Btw I know something about Gibsons/PRS etc and I would never pay full price for a new one. In some cases you don't get entirely what you pay for.

Doctor J

Rozie wrote:

I'd rather buy off US ebay though, because I can get cheaper shipping and afford insurance then.

You don't buy off ebay, you buy from individuals who sell through ebay, so it doesn't matter what version of ebay you buy from. The only difference is if you buy from outside the US you will have to pay additional import duty and VAT.

Ravelleman

I think you mean from outside the EU.

In general, prices on ebay US are cheaper than on the various European ebays. If you get caught for tax you'll probably end up paying the same as you would pay from an EU country but there is always the chance that it will get through customs without duty. It happens. I prefer to take the chance and maybe save a few hundred.

Doctor J

Indeed, that's exactly what I mean, my bad

In my experience with ebay, auctions are down to the individuals particpating. I've yet to notice any trends just down to the country the seller is based in. Everybody in the world can bid on most auctions realistically. For example, a guitar I bought from the states recently closed at $280. A similar guitar a few weeks later went for almost $100 more. Lucky me.Both were based in the states though. I think US based sellers generally start with a lower starting bid but there are no set rules on what it'll go for depending on where the sale originates. IMO, with the current exchange rates, buying from the states is borderline worth it, it's really down to a case by case situation. It is no longer a guaranteed money saver... sadly.

Rozie

The tone is all in the fingers. I can do more and get far more varied sounds with a single channel amp than if I had a floor full of effects. I'd prefer to be able to do a great many things with my playing alone, and not let effects get in the way of the sound.

I personally find that most people that claim that, don't, and only produce the same sounds. You can do plenty with just
an instrument, but you're limiting your tonal capabilities far too more. The "tone" refers to your sound, your playing
style is what's in the fingers. Two totally different things, and both are quite personal.

Don't believe everything you read on the internet, if it's really worth $800 they certainly wouldn't be selling it for 200, that like selling a Les Paul half price, it's just not done. If you read the harmony central reviews, not many payed more than 300 for it.

They're overstock though, don't forget. It *is* a cheaply made guitar, somewhat, it just happened to be a good one.

You'll also find that when people review, they do actuall review in a quality-price ratio, as in if it's $200 and plays pretty good, then they give it a high mark out of ten, because it's good for the price paid.

Yep. And the price they compare it to is one worth $800

If a Gibson Les Paul has an overall rating on Harmony Central of 9.5/10, and your washburn has the same rating, that doesn't mean they are of the same quality.

Doesn't mean mine is much worse, either. You can't tell for sure with reviews.

Moral of the story as always is, you get what you pay for.

I don't think so. A lot of people who are much more read up on guitars (but as this was an *Irish* site i wanted to get
an opinion on ordering) say that you can often bag good deals.

I bought a keyboard for under 200 euros that turned out to be a really great board. It's no Triton, but it's certainly better than a lot of synths I've seen going for 500 euros.

The Washburn isn't an $800 guitar. That's the RRP which is always significantly higher than the sale price, especially with Washburns!

Most people say it's the same quality as an $800 guitar. I believe it was released for $600, and was given $800 as the RRP.
The RRP of a lot of Schecters isn't much higher.

Yes it has been marked down in price a lot but in comparison to other guitars that should supposedly be in the same price range, the features aren't even that impressive. The finish is flat and opaque. The body is made of basswood (which isn't necessarily a bad thing but it is undoubtedly a cheap material to use). The inlays are plastic dots. The pickups aren't aftermarket brand name.

Every one says that it looks much better in real life than in the "stock" pics - I've seen some photos of it and it *is* quite nice looking, the red one is quite shiney.
Yes, the pickups are stock, but take a look at cheap Ibanez reviews, in fact, even Ibanez 7 strigns worth up to $600, and compare to them to reviews of the WG587. Absolutely no contest, the pickups are better. And I'm replacing the neck pickup anyway, don't see the issue.

I don't get the big deal about inlays personally...

I dunno. I'd like a Schecter, but they cost a lot, and they only come in the same blasted colours. I know it's shallow, but I really don't want another black guitar. I want something interesting, red, purple, green, something like htat.

I'm not looking at the amount of positive reviews, but the lack of negative ones. I can't find more than 2 or 3 bad reviews on the whole net for it.

feylya

Caveat Emptor.

You get what you pay for.

Karl Hungus

Rozie wrote:

I personally find that most people that claim that, don't, and only produce the same sounds. You can do plenty with just
an instrument, but you're limiting your tonal capabilities far too more. The "tone" refers to your sound, your playing
style is what's in the fingers. Two totally different things, and both are quite personal.

Are you honestly saying that your playing doesn't account for tone!? :eek:

LundiMardi

Rozie, the only one you're trying to convince is youself.

Rozie

Karl, since you're not an effects whore you may not be familiar with what "tone" is in guitar terms. Tone is nothing to do with playing. Tone is what comes... after you play the string, think of it that way. It's the colour of your sound. You still have the same tone on the bottom e as you do on the high e (well, depending on how your gear and pickups react :P).

You can play something a many different number of ways but if you play it with the same setup, you have the same tone. Tone comes from your guitar and rig, playing style comes from you.

I'm definitely buying the guitar. i'm sorry, comparing both this bost and my music post which I crossposted at guitar geek, which SHOULD be more finnicky, I can safely say people here have a much, much narrower scope on music related things.

Someone summed it up brilliantly:

wren wrote:

You're being too sensitive. (I don't think that's the right word, but oh well.) Coming from someone who bought one expecting to have to mod it far more than he did, it's actually an amazing guitar for the price. The tuners are excellent, the neck plays beautifully (better than $2500+ custom Ibanez 7 strings I've played), it stays in tune quite well (no tremolo, though, so that's more or less to be expected. Still, it's a plus.), the body is much better than I thought it would be (i.e. it doesn't sound like plywood and I haven't changed it yet), etc. The only complaint I had is pickups, and that is very easily remedied. Matter of fact, I think we've discussed that possibility once or twice already.

My advice? Buy the guitar from Music123 and send it back if you don't like it. IMO it'd be hard to go wrong for the price (and your application; alder is probably the wood you want given the type of music you play), and unless you get a lemon or I got one of those one-in-a-million brilliant Indochinese-made guitars, you shouldn't have any complaints. Remember, price doesn't always equal quality anymore.

feylya

Rozie wrote:

Karl, since you're not an effects whore you may not be familiar with what "tone" is in guitar terms. Tone is nothing to do with playing. Tone is what comes... after you play the string, think of it that way. It's the colour of your sound. You still have the same tone on the bottom e as you do on the high e (well, depending on how your gear and pickups react :P).

I'm sorry. I've seen some absolute bull**** in my time but that takes the biscuit. Tone comes from how you play the instrument. For instance, if you played a Metallica song on Hetfield's rig, it'd sound good but it wouldn't be his tone. Where as if he played a Metallica song on a different rig, you'd know it was him, from the tone in his fingers.

Rozie

The tone in his fingers? Seymour Duncan have new p'ups to pick that up now? "The Tone In His Fingers" is his playing style, like I said. The tone is the voice of his guitar. I don't see how that's so hard.

feylya

But tone depends greatly on how the instrument is played. From your posts, you seem to believe that a guitar will sound exactly the same no matter who plays it.

Doctor J

If you don't think how a person plays an instrument affects the tone then you must be rather hard of hearing or exceptionally unobservant :rolleyes:

Giblet

You know nothing about guitars, stop posting. A persons tone comes from the combonation of his finnesse when striking a string, how he is holding it, and the type of gear shaping it, not just the end result. I have listened to the crap on your website, and if you think you possess any of the qualities to create "tone" from a guitar besides it sounding like a buzzsaw, you are mistaken.

LundiMardi

Rozie wrote:

The tone in his fingers? Seymour Duncan have new p'ups to pick that up now? "The Tone In His Fingers" is his playing style, like I said. The tone is the voice of his guitar. I don't see how that's so hard.

sorry, you really don't have a clue...

Tone comes from all sorts, not just the effect of the pedal, your technique greatly influences your tone. If you get a beginner playing a certain rig and he's playing something as simple as Smell Like Teen Spirit(*shudder*), and you get a pro playing the same song with the same rig, do you think it's gonna sound the same?

LundiMardi

Giblet wrote:

You know nothing about guitars, stop posting. A persons tone comes from the combonation of his finnesse when striking a string, how he is holding it, and the type of gear shaping it, not just the end result. I have listened to the crap on your website, and if you think you possess any of the qualities to create "tone" from a guitar besides it sounding like a buzzsaw, you are mistaken.

linky? i wouldn't mind hearing Rozie's ''tone''

feylya

http://www.myspace.com/moonweaver

LundiMardi

feylya wrote:

http://www.myspace.com/moonweaver

oooooookkk, i'll get me coat.

Rozie, no offence but you have a hell of a lot to learn, and i suggest you KEEP AWAY from pedals for at least a year. Pedals don't make you good

Voodu Child

Rozie wrote:

What guitars would I need that are more expensive than around $800?

I hear those J-Customs are rather good....

Seriously though, those Washburns arent great value, they were selling them off in musicmaker really cheap last year. I wouldnt call it a bad guitar or anything, I just wouldnt want you to be misled into thinking you had picked up a super bargain..

If you were looking for that kind of guitar, you might be better of with a kick in the bum...7 strings are for people compensating for something...eh Karl ?

Karl Hungus

voodoo_child wrote:

If you were looking for that kind of guitar, you might be better of with a santana se..?

Since when did they do Santana 7 string?

Voodu Child

mmm...yes..maybe i should read the thread properly...

You win this round Hungus...

Karl Hungus

voodoo_child wrote:

You win this round Hungus...

Hah!

Although smugness aside, a PRS 7 string would be cool.

Doctor J

Nah, one of these, except good



and in the natural korina finish like this



Yum yum yum

Karl Hungus

No... Never been a fan of V's at all.

feylya

Doctor J wrote:

Nah, one of these, except good



and in the natural korina finish like this



Yum yum yum

Can I ban you for assaulting my eyes like that?

Karl Hungus

feylya wrote:

Can I ban you for assaulting my eyes like that?

Well you could, but he could just unban himself.

Doctor J

Only if I can ban you too

You don't think the old 58 V's are degggely? You crazy, fool!

feylya

58 V's are gorgeous.

7 string ones aren't.

Doctor J

Actually, speaking of ugly V's check out the prototype for Dave Mustaine's Y2KV (or whatever the **** it was called)



I just can't imagine what they were thinking with that one :eek: