legs!!!

poobum

hey i was just wondering is their any rouine that any one can advis m to get my legs bigger? i need it for rugby! just a rough idea of what exercises i should do!(i do squats, front squats, deadlift, ham curls) but they are getting stronger but not fast enough! what rest etc between should i take etc... any exercises im neglecting?

entropi

Honestly, i'd advise getting yourself a bicycle and do some mileage. Worked for me years ago while playing soccer at same time, can see good results if you keep it up.

poobum

Death Sentence wrote:

Honestly, i'd advise getting yourself a bicycle and do some mileage. Worked for me years ago while playing soccer at same time, can see good results if you keep it up.

i forgot to mention i use "spinner" biikes! im looking for power not endurance! i have endurance! i just need the strengths in my legs incrased! at the moment i can only deadlift 130kg.... i aim for 200 by september! is that a possible achievement? im not realy that sure! i am more into my upperbody weights! but changed to the front row in rugby and ned the extra push in my legs! i can hold my own against most...but i need to be better!

joc_06

WS4SB. An excellent training program for power and size.
http://www.defrancotraining.com/articles/archive/articles_westside2.htm

Dont believe all the spin on the site though. A lot of his clients are juicers. None the less they train extremely hard and extremely smart too.

If you need more specific advice then ask.
Whats your weight? heights etc etc
Im aiming for a 600 lbs deadlift myself this side of xmas. @177lbs BW thats not bad...

SparkyLarks

The following info would help
What age are you??
What level of rugby are you playing.
What position are you moving from

You seam to have included a good range of exercises in ypur post, more infor would help though.

I'm a prop myself and the main exercises I do to develop my legs are
Squats, calf raises and lunges( alot of the power for scrummaging comes from your glutes), done with free weights (to help develop the trunk)

I allso do loads and loads of jumpy burpies , (you start hunched with your hands on the ground in front of you, then legs go back , your kinda in a press up postion now, then bring your legs back into you chest, and then jump into the air, bringing your arms over your head. ( no weitghts involved))
Great for devolping explosive power. Ther are other similar exercises but i'd definately look at addiny a plyometric exercise to your routine.

at prop you also need to work on your trunk, back and stomach muscles. No point in having great power in the legs id your opposite number can twist you in the scrum.

Ask your coach, he'll ( or she will) probably have some exercises for you. and as he knows more about you he'll be able to to develop a better programme for you, taking into account your own physique but also the style of rugby that he will want you to play.

poobum

im 17(last april)
13 st 2 pounds
height is roughly 6ft 1 inch maby a little taller
i used to play prob and want to continue playing it! unless i gt my leg size up i will have to go flanker which i dont want to do!
im playing senior cup rugby with school
i used to do those "burpies" but thought id be better squating etc...is this so?

and joc_06 just curious but what are Seal jumping jacks and Backpedal?
any help would be appreciated

SparkyLarks

In my experience, and you really should talk to you coach or a gym instructor my knowledge has been built up over years of different articles ect I'm very self tought and what I do works for me it might not work for you or it might even hinder your development.

any wayI'll give it a go. and explain how I approached trainign when you age, I was a little shorter 5 10 and heavier,( you loose or tight head by the way???)
It's not a case of if burpies are better than weights, but about using both. I'll try to explain what I mean, hopefully others here more qualified can help.

Weights develop 2 things Muscular strenght (the maximum weight you can lift once) and muscular endurance(the number of times you can lift a given weight). Heavy weights and low reps for strenght and lighter weights and high reps for endurance is how I work it.

However that is only part of what is needed as a prop. Power is another important aspect. Explosive power is how quickly you can use your strenght is what you use to drive(Speed + Strenght). That is best developed using Plyometrics jumping type exercises.

Power allow you use the strenght that you have quickly. If were proping against each other, Say you can lift 100 kg's and I can only lift 50kg. if I can use my strenght more quickly i.e in 1 second but it takes you 4 second to use your strength I'll have you on the back foot.

however it's obviously better to be able to lift 100kg's in 1 second.so you need to do weights aswell.

I'm personally a big fan of Plyometrics cos they worked for me, they might not work for you. Did you get a summer training programme from you coach? If not can you go and ask him to help you make one out. If you did is ther any reason why you don't want to use it?

poobum

yeh i do alot of polymetrics...but i nver lift the max i can! i can deadlift 130kg for example but i can do 4 sets of 6-8 rps! i can do much heavier but only gt 1 or 2 reps in! is my way better? or should i mix it etc..
i no im loight but im aggressive and very fast and strong for my size(i can only assume by genetics because my whole family are this way) i dont particullary care for my wight id rather be light but able to push just as hard! it lets me be more mobile! something i feel all props should be more of!
iv played both loose and tight but i prefer loose as i find my weight less of a hindrance in loose!

Easygainer

Squatting heavy with lowish reps (5x5) and heavy weight will pile on the muscle and strength. Also, eat a lot of carbs on and around your leg day. Don't be afraid of doing 25 sets for legs - they are a very resilient muscle group and when trained once a week this is needed for growth. Also don't forget calves.

I also think some of it may be genetic though, unfortunately. I had massive legs before I ever weighlifted (could dl 170kg first time I tried when 16 y.o...) and they are still my best body part - that said I train them harder than any other muscle group, simply because I love squatting.

poobum

Easygainer wrote:

Squatting heavy with lowish reps (5x5) and heavy weight will pile on the muscle and strength. Also, eat a lot of carbs on and around your leg day. Don't be afraid of doing 25 sets for legs - they are a very resilient muscle group and when trained once a week this is needed for growth. Also don't forget calves.

I also think some of it may be genetic though, unfortunately. I had massive legs before I ever weighlifted (could dl 170kg first time I tried when 16 y.o...) and they are still my best body part - that said I train them harder than any other muscle group, simply because I love squatting.

its not my problem that i cant do heavy weights! its that im scared to hurt my back! especially with squats! my technique is good i just have a mental block! i afraid to put to much weight on the bar! :eek:

Easygainer

poobum wrote:

its not my problem that i cant do heavy weights! its that im scared to hurt my back! especially with squats! my technique is good i just have a mental block! i afraid to put to much weight on the bar! :eek:

One way I got my confidence up for squats was by deadlifting so much more - when you can handle 40kg or more on another lift, the squat seems light...

However, a good way of increasing strength and getting leg size up (and overall size) is a progressive resistance programme whereby you start with 85% of your best lifts (eg squatting for 8 reps) in week 1, then gradually bring this up week by week so after about 5/6 weeks you're at your previous best, then keep bringing it up a tiny bit for as long as you can - I made the increments tiny towards the end - like 0.8kg by using imperial weighted plates (45lbs = 20.4kg) and metric plates, or using 2/3 clips (the ones to stop weights going off). I made the most progress ever following this routine, gaining 20lbs and adding a total of over 80kg to my 3 lifts (in about 4 or so months, I still have the training log!)

poobum

well today i got pi55ed off and started pushing myself with the squats and managed a few sets on 160kg! considering previously the highest id ever don was 120 or 130 i think thats a good step! it was a mental block! im going to try up the wight 10kg every wee! this good or bad idea?

Easygainer

poobum wrote:

well today i got pi55ed off and started pushing myself with the squats and managed a few sets on 160kg! considering previously the highest id ever don was 120 or 130 i think thats a good step! it was a mental block! im going to try up the wight 10kg every wee! this good or bad idea?

I doubt then that you are going full depth. Your ass should be no more than a foot from the ground at the bottom of the position. Also going up 10kg a week is unsustainable unless you're lifting well below what you can or you're starting at about 10kg!

joc_06

nail on the head. form is way more important than weight lifted.
as the finest made athlete i've ever heard of said:
every lifts and everybody runs but its the way you lift it that counts.
or something like that.
a squat is ass to grass, there are other forms like half and quarter squats that have their place but they are not squats.

poobum

Easygainer wrote:

I doubt then that you are going full depth. Your ass should be no more than a foot from the ground at the bottom of the position. Also going up 10kg a week is unsustainable unless you're lifting well below what you can or you're starting at about 10kg!

when im down my ass and thigh is parallel to the floor is that far enough?

Easygainer

poobum wrote:

when im down my ass and thigh is parallel to the floor is that far enough?

You might think it's parallel when it's not. Best thing to do is get a low bench (about 14" high or so) and squat til you sit on it. That way you'll know the depth you've gone too. I tended to reduce depth as I increased weight when I started out so better to address it early.

poobum

Easygainer wrote:

You might think it's parallel when it's not. Best thing to do is get a low bench (about 14" high or so) and squat til you sit on it. That way you'll know the depth you've gone too. I tended to reduce depth as I increased weight when I started out so better to address it early.

cheers ill try the bench thing!
i noticed if i went above 160 i cudnt go the full way down! although i may still not be but i do think i was!

Prior Of Taize

poobum wrote:

at the moment i can only deadlift 130kg....

Deadlifts are a lower back exercise so dont be surprised if your legs arent tree trunks :rolleyes:

if your going to be using weights then dont use machine weights...waste of time.

do free weight squats with short intense bursts of movement...meaning bend down slowly and then drive upwards (make sure you have enough weight on to make this worthwhile). Intensity builds definition and power muscle.

using a lower weight and doing a slower more controlled movement will build stamina/endurance muscle needed for extended periods of movement.

Tho tbh i would say that endurance is more important for rugby (obvioudly depending on yoru position) as your required to be at any point of the pitch in less than 20 seconds.

The bike does a lot of good for your legs...just because your legs dont look huge and muscley doesnt necessarily mean they arent strong enough as it would just be a matter of toning which a bike or a treadmill can fix in 2 or 3 weeks.

poobum

yeh my legs arent big but thats not what i care about i want them to be powerful! i am a very fast sprintr(short distances only) and my legs are strong i just want them to be stronger! when i say bigger legs i mean stronger!(shudda been more clear i apologise although the extra weight might be nice!) somthing i do find when im squatting havir loads i tend to have my legs wider apart is this bad? i try not to but do it alot without realising! i spend to much time concentrating on gting my ass to the floor basically! and forgt to check my legs positioning!

Prior Of Taize

in that case i can guarantee that doing squats will **** up your sprinting ability no end.

you dont need more muscle by the sounds of it.

you most likely need to really work the muscles you already have. the way i would do this is by doing endurance work like running on beach close to the water (running on sand is a bitch and really burns your muscles). a bike or a treadmill can only do so much for you regardless of their variety of features...i mean a treadmill only goes forwards etc etc.

do not concentrate on having really "powerful" legs if your not in the scrum. its not necessary to have them that way unless you feel your lacking at the moment.

What i mean is if your a really fast sprinter then getting more muscle only makes it more difficult to move your now heavier mass and makes you an OK mid sized runner as opposed to a GOOD sprinter

The pro's to having strong legs when your a pretty boy back player (as opposed to us hardy front line bastards ) is your far more likely to resist injury and you will have a better ability to get up and sprint at full speed from stop if you get knocked down.

if your a runner then work on running man. doing leg exercises for muscle isnt the right way to do it i feel anyway. it will only provide you with 3 things:

1---> better looking legs
2---> worse looking legs that are out of proportion with your body
3---> an extra 2 tonnes of resistance when your trying to move

poobum

but c i play both prop and flanker! so i need the strong legs! and the weight wud b nice! at the mo i only get by cos im stronger then they are heavy but that dosent work always! and cos im a good sprintr iv a good explosive power is scrums so they start on backfoot! im jus a fast agressive prop in the end! who can play flankr aswel!

SparkyLarks

Your better off being quick and strong then big and heavy.

Honestly from what you've said you seam in pretty good shape for what you want and your training seams sensible.

Maybe instead of all this emphasis on strenght work on technique might bring benifits. I mean The Bull is strong but a poor scrummager. why? poor technique. heis legs are too far back to get an effective drive

Maybe working on getting low getting your legs right, working the oppositions sterneum with the back of your head( lifting there can mill the other guy) will bring more benifit

Prior Of Taize

if you play both prop and flanker then your team must have some seriously small forwards if you are as fast as you say you are.

In that case you cant be a 100% effective prop and a fast flanker because they cancel eachother out. theres lots of big guys out there to fill the prop position so stick with flanker and remain fast. dont forget that in 1-20 years when you quit rugby its a lot easy to go on living while not being 20 stone

poobum

firstly i am fast(some of the backs are faster then me do) i used to be on a sprinting team(i took a year off rugby to join one) and our forwards are quite huge! im the lightest prop on my team by far!(about 1-2 stone) its just that i have alot of xplosive power more then them and im very aggressive thats how i get away with it! and i can lift more then i should be able to for my size! id love to be abl to gain weight(without fat) buti dont seem to be able to! its realy annoying! thats why im slowly being pushed towards flanker! id prefer to stay prop do! which is why im trying to gt a stronger push for the scrum!

SparkyLarks

Stay in prop.
there are flankers everyhere

I'm 25 now, playing 3rds rugby socially and I get a lot of offers from clubs to come play, cos props are so thin on the ground, a lot of thirds teams forfit matches because of the lask of props

If you playing schools your only alowed push 1m( is that still correct) so it's all about the initial shove. Even a bigger stronger pack can only push you a metre. Being an effective line out lifter would in my opion be more important, especially if you can be lifted you could come up with a very creative lineouts with you alternateing between lifter and jumper.

If the rest of your pack is big losing a bit of weight on the loosehed side won't make too much of a difference if you get a good drive from the secondrow and flanker. If you can get in under your opposite number you can over come a 2-3 stone weight advantage easily( of course some big guys have good technique too). If you do want to put on weight you diet is crucial. Talk to a sports nutrionalist. Without that at 17 you may have a lot of trouble putting on weight.

I know a guy who at 22 was eating well ( he had advice from a nutritinalist)doing loads of weights taking supplements and he couldn;t put on any weight. His strenght went way up but he stayed the same weight.

Again can I suggest talking to your coach. If he wants to play a game with a heavy front row you might be up against it. Find out what he wants in a prop and see if you can fit it.