QFs already decided

por

From Today's Examiner

New football format likely to yield Mayo/Kerry quarter-final

By Tony Leen
BE CAREFUL what you wish for, because it might just come true... Okay, perhaps Kerry’s footballers were not looking to meet Cork later in the Championship after defeating them in Sunday’s Munster final at Páirc Ui Chaoimh.

In fact, the coach and several players suggested that the Rebels were a side to avoid in the qualifiers!

But the little-known fact that this year's Congress took the decision to shift the provincial sequence (ie, Munster v Connacht, Leinster v Ulster) from semi-final to quarter-final stage, makes the meeting of Munster's traditional football powers in the semi-final a real possibility.

There is confusion every year over the permutations for the quarter-finals of the football championship, but the new system devised under GAC fixtures chairman Tony O'Keeffe has thrown up intriguing possibilities.




For instance, if Connacht's beaten finalists Mayo win their only qualifier against, as yet, undetermined opposition, they can only meet Kerry in the quarter-final, in a repeat of last year's All-Ireland decider.

The Munster-Connacht sequence will also throw up a Galway-Cork quarter-final if Billy Morgan's men can win their Round 4 qualifier on July 30.

At this stage, in the absence of winners from the Leinster and Ulster Championships, it is futile to even consider the permutations on that side of the draw.

Indeed, the draw for the final round of qualifiers which will involve the beaten provincial finalists and the remaining four qualifiers has been put back to Sunday week, by which time the Ulster winners will have emerged.

To avoid unnecessary confusion, it's better to consider the options in sequential form.

On Saturday, July 30, two of those four final qualifiers will take place the ones involving Cork and Mayo against a pair of Round 3 winners. A week later, the Ulster and Leinster runners-up will match up against the other two Round 3 winners.

The following day, Sunday, August 7, the winners of the two qualifiers played on July 30 (the ones involving Cork and Mayo), will play in All-Ireland quarter-finals against Munster champions Kerry and Connacht champions Galway.

And just to take it a step further, the winners of those quarter-finals will meet in the All-Ireland semi-final on August 28.

Meanwhile, the winners of the August 6 qualifiers (involving the Leinster and Ulster beaten finalists) will play the winners from Leinster and Ulster if that sounds confusing, it is only because those provincial finals have yet to be decided.

That semi-final would then be played on September 4, the week before the All-Ireland hurling final.

Mr O'Keeffe explained that the format had been tabled to Congress after discussions last year between the GAC and provincial officers.

"The key is to ensure that, even in the event of a draw, all beaten provincial finalists would have at least 13 days to recover before their qualifier game. It was also devised to ensure there would be no need for match postponements because of the vagaries of the draw," he said yesterday.

And what happens, perchance, if all four beaten provincial finalists come through their qualifiers to meet the provincial champions in the quarter-finals? After all, with the likes of Louth/Monaghan and Sligo/Clare guaranteed a place in the final round of qualifiers, it is a distinct possibility.

"The quarter-finals would be criss-crossed," said O'Keeffe.

"The Munster-Connacht scenario is a good example. Cork couldn't play Kerry again in the quarter-finals, and Galway can't play Mayo. So that is why Mayo can only play Kerry in the quarter-final if they win their qualifier on July 30."

Load of bollix if you ask me, instead of having a open draw for the semis (which many people had been mentioning as a good idea for the past few yaers) they decide to pre-detremine the draw for the quaters aswell.
The reason behind it is to avoid a single provence final of course

The Rooster

Thanks for posting that, very interesting.

The reason behind it is to avoid a single provence final of course

I dont believe thats the reason for it - its the 13 day v 6 day rest thats the reason for it. It is true to say that the effect of it is that provincial finalists cannot meet again in the All Ireland final (they'd meet in the semi), however this new system would not prevent say a Tyrone-Derry or Dublin-Meath final.

Clareman

or a Clare v Kerry or Cork final

por

One thing I have just noticed, what happpens in this situation.
Limerick beat Derry in 3rd roind
Limerick Beat Mayo in 4th round
Cork win their 4th round game.
Now who do Kerry play as they have alreday beaten Cork and Limerick.

Flukey

It gets to a point where teams that have met before are allowed to meet, so they'd be drawn against one or the other. It is only in the earlier round that they don't let repeat fixtures occur.

Benedict XVI

Flukey wrote:

It gets to a point where teams that have met before are allowed to meet, so they'd be drawn against one or the other. It is only in the earlier round that they don't let repeat fixtures occur.

The semi-finals is the point where teams that alreday meet can meet again, I think it was introduced that way after Roscommon beat Galway in the Connaught in '01 and then ended up loosing to them in the QF in Castlebar a

Flukey

There were several repeat pairings that year, but then it was the first year they introduced the system, so it was just a teething problem.

Flukey

Apparently it will be:

jank

So it looks like there will be a Dublin Vs Tyrone QF. There ends the dubs season right there!

Cork Vs Sligo is a good draw. The game against Galway is much harder to call

Lemlin

Are you sure you're right there? Armagh and Derry have already played and I thought the semis was the first point where teams that had already played could play.

The Rooster

Lemlin wrote:

Are you sure you're right there? Armagh and Derry have already played and I thought the semis was the first point where teams that had already played could play.

Correct apart from you missed two words at the end of your sentence "....where possible"

If both Tyrone and Derry win, then there will be a draw to see who plays Dublin/Armagh in the quarters as both teams have already played Armagh already.

Trampas

I heard that the Dublin game could be moved to 20th weekend.

Can any confirm this

The Rooster

I can confirm it. It could.

The options are as follows:
1. Leave things as per original schedule and have a double bill in Croker on Saturday 13th involving Dublin's game and Armagh's game.
2. Move Dublin's game to Saturday 20th.
3. Move Armagh's game to Saturday 20th.
4. Keep both games on the 13th, but move Armagh's game to a venue outside Dublin.

Last week the papers were all saying option 2 would be chosen, but I presume options 3 or 4 could be chosen either.

A decision is expected to be made today.

Lemlin

I'd say they'll move one of the matches. The GAA wouldn't be interested in a double header involving Dublin because the Dubs will fill Croker easily on their own.

TheBigLebowski

Up the Dubs.

jank

If both Tyrone and Derry win, then there will be a draw to see who plays Dublin/Armagh in the quarters as both teams have already played Armagh already.

Hmm no doubt the draw will be fixed. Sayign that Tyrone and Armagh played each other twice already! 3 times is a bit much imo.

Then again derry played Armagh twice too so I dont know. There isnt a whole lot between those 2 teams and expect the winner of those trio to win the all ireland.

Waylander

Kerry are better then the 3 of those teams, and it is them I expect to see win the All Ireland. I think people are over reating Derry a bit. Don't get me wrong, I think they are a fairly ggod side, but I do not think they are as good as Armagh or Tyrone.

madmorphy

jank wrote:

So it looks like there will be a Dublin Vs Tyrone QF. There ends the dubs season right there!

I wouldn't say that now,they beat us by a point in the league this year we beat them by a point last year when they were all ireland champions.We also won an all-ireland u21 in 2003 against them with many of the current dublin players.Dublin would have no fear whatsoever of tyrone and would well fancy beating them,and they have to beat monaghan first who have already won some silverware in croke pk this year.

jank

madmorphy wrote:

I wouldn't say that now,they beat us by a point in the league this year we beat them by a point last year when they were all ireland champions.We also won an all-ireland u21 in 2003 against them with many of the current dublin players.Dublin would have no fear whatsoever of tyrone and would well fancy beating them,and they have to beat monaghan first who have already won some silverware in croke pk this year.

Maybe but the Championship is different im sure you agree! IMO Dublin have yet to be tested. Leinster is the weakest of all the provonces too.

When was the last time a Leinster team won the All ireland 99 i think was it?

Not saying Tyrone will destroy them but they will just be too strong for them at the end of day

Lemlin

Don't count your chickens just yet, Monaghan are a good team. They'll give Tyrone a good game I reckon.

The Rooster

The Rooster wrote:

If both Tyrone and Derry win, then there will be a draw to see who plays Dublin/Armagh in the quarters as both teams have already played Armagh already.

Correction to this. It has been confirmed that provincial finalists cannot meet in the quarter-finals, so if both Derry and Tyrone win, Armagh will play Derry and Dublin will play Tyrone.

The decision about when and where those QFs will be played was made yesterday, but will not be announced until today because "there were a few things to be done and a few people to consult".

Waylander

How come no mateer what the Dubs do they have not been tested yet? They beat Laois ( a team who hammered Kildare) in the Leinster final, they have beaten the league finalists, and they have beaten one of their oldest and most bitter rivals. What consititutes a test to you Jank? Especially seeing as alot of posters here have tipped them to lose each of those matches.

Lemlin

Well I tipped Dublin to lose to Wexford in the pools. But I always said any game in Leinster would be close.

And Dublin haven't been tested due to the poor nature of Leinster. They struggled against Wexford, a team that Monghan, a good team but not one of the better teams in Ulster, had no problem disposing of.

I would expect Derry to beat Laois as well. Laois may be one of the better teams in Leinster but outside Leinster they've done absolutely nothing, like the wide majority of Leinster teams.

Therefore Dublin can't be tested until they've played some Ulster, Connacht or Munster opposition.

jank

Lemlin wrote:

Well I tipped Dublin to lose to Wexford in the pools. But I always said any game in Leinster would be close.

And Dublin haven't been tested due to the poor nature of Leinster. They struggled against Wexford, a team that Monghan, a good team but not one of the better teams in Ulster, had no problem disposing of.

I would expect Derry to beat Laois as well. Laois may be one of the better teams in Leinster but outside Leinster they've done absolutely nothing, like the wide majority of Leinster teams.

Therefore Dublin can't be tested until they've played some Ulster, Connacht or Munster opposition.

Exactly what he says

blackbelt

jank,i think its wrong to go by reputation and past performances in predicting who will win.monaghan could thrash tyrone by 8 or 9 points.afterall this is GAA,the most unpredictable and exciting game in the world.

Dublin could hammer tyrone or monaghan or vice versa.then again it could be a tight match whoever it is.

jank,to say that if tyrone beat monaghan that dublin are gone is a total cop out.lemlin,your wrong about Dublin being not tested also.dublin were losing to meath,came back and won.they were losing for half the match against wexford,came back and won.they fought and held on to beat a laois side who came back into the match after half time to win the leinster title.

to say that leinster are a weak province in football is not altogether true

Dublin are always contenders, and always make it far into the all ireland.
kildare...weak side but will put on a good match (win or lose) most the time
wexford....did well this year (esp league) and might do better next year
meath..contenders who have fallen out of the race for sam.going downhill
kilkenny...hurling
louth... not contenders sadly.same for longford and wicklow
carlow...had a good spell this year,they are on the up
offaly....inconsistent but tough opposition most the time
Laois.... are always contenders like dublin.tough opposition
westmeath... inconsistent but pull out some surprises

leinster being a weak province in football is not true.when you look at it,u have to look at the teams and not the provinces.sam is dominated by armagh,kerry and tyrone.

i agree there are a lot of weak teams in leinster but in munster only 3 contend...limerick,cork and kerry

connacht..2....mayo and galway
ulster .. 3...derry,tyrone,armagh (i suppose you should refer to the topic of ulster dominance in football) which i hate to say but if you are looking for a province where you are guaranteed to be tested you have to look at ulster.with four teams in ulster still in the all ireland,it is a v good possibility sam will be going up north.

but i hope the following win it instead of the usual....Dublin,Mayo,Cavan,Sligo or Derry

jank

Dublin are always contenders, and always make it far into the all ireland.

Oh dear lord!!

When was the last time Dublin seriously challenged for the All ireland!!

Sigh!

jank,i think its wrong to go by reputation and past performances in predicting who will win

So my local parish could beat Armagh tomorrow!! Great!! :rolleyes:

blackbelt

last year actually.

dublin reached the quarter finals.when a team is in the quarters/final 8 they are contending the all ireland.

well we could organise a match between our local parishes and we'll show ye the only thing you guys can beat is the traffic on the way home.

jank

blackbelt wrote:

well we could organise a match between our local parishes and we'll show ye the only thing you guys can beat is the traffic on the way home.

I doubt that as nemo are one of the best teams in the country

last year actually.

yea sure :rolleyes:

Serious contenders should be getting into the semi's on a regular basis not a QF here and there!

The Rooster

Yeah, jank Dublin are sh!te. Although there are only 5 teams in the country who've reached a semi and a quarter in the previous 3 years and are still in this year's championship - Dublin being one of them. Or to put it another way, when the quarter-finalists are known there will only be 2 teams who have made the quarter-finals 4 years in a row (Armagh and Kerry) and there will be 5 or 6 who have made it 3 times out of 4 - Dublin being one of them.

So while Dublin may be sh!te, apart from Armagh, Kerry or Tyrone, every other county has been just as bad, or more likely worse, over the last 4 years.


Back on topic:
Dublin's quarter-final has been confirmed as Saturday August 13th in Croker (not a double bill).

Armagh will play their QF in Croke Park on Saturday 20th if they are playing Laois. But if they are playing either Monaghan or Derry, it will be played in either Clones or Casement Pk on Saturday 13th.

McClane

to say that leinster are a weak province in football is not altogether true

I'd have to say Leinster are probably the weakest province for football. The fact Leinster has more counties then say Munster, Connact, Ulster and the greatest all-Ireland winning county in Leinster is Kilkenny, well somethings amiss.

Dublin are always contenders, and always make it far into the all ireland.

Dublin in the past few years have had a couple of easy rides i.e > Dragged through the qualifers by the GAA and if they win/lose the Leinster provincial final they go straight to the quarters/round4.

Thats hardly called contending.

sam is dominated by armagh,kerry and tyrone.

Football All-Irelands won.

Kerry - 33
Armagh - 1
Tyrone - 1

28064212

Gaa.ie wrote:

Tuesday, July 26

The GAA have confirmed the Quarter Final dates for the Bank of Ireland
Football Championship as follows:

Round 4 - Football Qualifers
1. Mayo V Cavan
2. Cork V Sligo
3. Tyrone V Monaghan
4. Laois V Sligo


Quarter Finals
Galway Winner 1 or 2
Kerry Winner 1 or 2
Both games will be played in Croke Park on Sunday, 7th August 2005.

Armagh Winner 3 or 4
Dublin Winner 3 or 4

If the pairings are Armagh v Monaghan the game will be in Clones on 13th
August and Dublin v Derry in Croke Park on August 13th.

If the pairings are Dublin V Tyrone the game will be in Croke Park on August
13th and Armagh V Laois in Croke Park on August 20th.

If the pairings are Dublin v Monaghan the game will be in Croke Park on
August 13th and if it is Armagh v Derry the game will be in Clones or
Casement Park on August 13th and Dublin v Tyrone in Croke Park, also on
August 13th.

Does this mean that if Cavan and Sligo win, there will be a draw for who meets Galway or Kerry? I assume if Cork go through, they won't play Kerry, and likewise for Mayo and Galway

The Rooster

28064212 wrote:

Does this mean that if Cavan and Sligo win, there will be a draw for who meets Galway or Kerry? I assume if Cork go through, they won't play Kerry, and likewise for Mayo and Galway

Yes, there would be a draw.
Yes, Cork can't play Kerry in the QF
Yes, Mayo can't play Galway in the QF

blackbelt

how can you say Dublin are not contending sam.It was predicted that dublin would win some silverware this year and they have.now they are in the final 8.so i guess you can say tyrone and cavan and even kerry are being dragged through the all ireland.afterall,kerry are not playing as good as they usually do.tyrone and armagh drawing matches.cavan are scalping matches so i guess they aint contending sam either :rolleyes:

Flukey

Well it is going to be Galway v Cork and Kerry v Mayo. We could end up with a repeat of either the Connacht of Munster final in the Semi-Final. I hope it ends up as a repeat of the Connacht final.