Protocol for passing overtaking lane hogs

jlang

A quote on the other thread reminded me to ask this.

Mick L wrote:

This was around 10:30pm, traffic was light, yet there was a guy in the overtaking lane with NO cars in the inside lane for as far as I could see ahead. And he just stayed there, obviously in a world of his own.

And that's something I've wanted to ask - what is the protocol when faced by this? I see several choices and have seen them all done on our motorways, not all by me!

1. undertake on the left. (solves problem for you, but illegal)
2. hold station in the right lane behind the holdup until he moves over, then overtake on right.
3. = B + indicating right (appears to be the norm on French autoroutes, where they only use the overtaking lane for overtaking, of course there's far fewer slow idiots in the fast lane there)
4. = B + severe impatience ie flashing lights and tailgating until he moves over, then overtake waving fist!
5. hold station in the left lane, but don't undertake until he moves over, then go past on the right.
6. E + indicating left, hoping to confuse him.
7. Switch lanes from left to right repeatedly (ie switch between B and E until he notices your presence and lets you past)
8. Fall back a good bit, and pretend you're Driving Miss Daisy.
9. Pull in for a smoke, a wee and a phone call on the hard shoulder. (OK, I haven't seen this happen, but I've passed it happening, and guess the dilemma could have provoked it)

If the other driver is doing 80km/h does it make a difference? 115km/h? 120km/h when you want to do just a couple more and he feels entitled to go in whatever lane he wants cos he's already doing the speed limit and knows that holding you up is doing you a favour by keeping your speed legal.

That's when there's no other cars around. It's more complicated on the M50 when there is more around as there is a rule that you can't have more than two cars on a motorway without someone doing either A or D!

Heaven help us when we've more three lane carriageways.

zenith

I so feel your pain.

IT'S THE OVERTAKING LANE, DAMNIT.

Dingatron

All of the above depending what my mood is like. Personally I hate having to do A.# undertake on the left. (solves problem for you, but illegal). I have done it on the rare occasssion and am always expecting the sirens and flashing lights to appear out of nowhere. What put me off that option was when I did it one time the idiot took my passing on the left as a serious insult and nearly ran me off "his" road. :rolleyes: This is the one bit of bad driving that really annoys me

fletch

I think I have tried all those suggestions listed and none seem to work...generally undertaking on the left is your only option. My defence (if caught) would be that I was in a densely populated lane and the right lane was moving slower than the left. Then it is not illegal but I suppose it depends on your definition of densely populated

ando

i dont see much of a problem undertaking, i do it all the time when there's idiots in the overtaking lane

dogg_r_69

1. undertake on the left. (solves problem for you, but illegal)

As far as I know it's not illegal to overtake if the traffic on the left hand lane is travelling at a quicker speed than right hand lane

Bluehair

dogg_r_69 wrote:

As far as I know it's not illegal to overtake if the traffic on the left hand lane is travelling at a quicker speed than right hand lane

Ditto to the above, (must dig out my old rules of the road) but I'm almost certain it's ok to overtake in the left lane in the above situation.

BrianD3

Well it depends on the type of driver. Some drivers are completely oblivious to *everything* that's happening around them. These drivers are often 70+ and half blind, deaf and in the early stages of senility. These will never move over, flashing or beeping is futile. God love them I will undertake these but very carefully and will be very prepared to take avoiding action should they swerve in front of me

Others who hog the overtaking lane include
-begrudging w*nkers who don't like being overtaken especially by some "impatient flash bollox in a big car" :rolleyes:
-dopey drivers who are somewhat aware of their surroundings i.e they check their mirrors every ten minutes or so :rolleyes:

I usually undertake these too but if I'm in a bad mood I will stay in the overtaking lane and try to bully them out of the way. Not proud of meself for this but it seems to work anytime I do it. I find that driving on the extreme right of the overtaking lane (almost onto the median) while flashing lights gets the message across that you want to get by. The front of your car looms large in the hogs driver's side wing mirror. He may get afraid that you're going to go up on the median to overtake so he decides that it's probably best to move over.

PS undertaking at motorway speeds is most certainly illegal in Ireland (not in some other countries though) The rule about undertaking when the left lane moving faster than the right lane only applies to slow moving traffic.

kermit_ie

Here it is:

Do not overtake unless you can do so without risk to yourself or to others. You should be able to see that the road is clear for a sufficient distance to enable you to overtake. Be particularly careful of hills or dips in the road, bends, bridges, road narrowing or pedestrian crossings. Note also the rules regarding roadway markings (continuous and broken, single and double white lines) referred to earlier.

You must also check your mirror to ensure that another vehicle is not approaching from behind intending to overtake too.

• Where zig-zag markings are provided on the approaches to Pelican or Zebra Crossings or Pedestrian Lights you must not overtake within the areas marked by these lines.

• Before overtaking check that the way is clear, check in your mirror to ensure another vehicle is not approaching from behind, give your signal in good time, move out when it is safe to do so, accelerate and overtake with the minimum of delay. When you are well past, signal and gradually move in again making sure not to cut across the vehicle you have passed.

• Extra care should be taken when overtaking a vehicle displaying a "LONG VEHICLE" sign. This means that the vehicle is at least 13 metres long and you will require significant road length to pass it.

• Normally you must overtake on the right but overtaking on the left is permitted -
• When the driver ahead has moved out and given a right turn signal and you intend to go straight ahead or turn left.
• When you intend to turn left and have signalled this intention.
• Where traffic is moving slowly and the vehicles in the lane on your right are moving more slowly than the traffic in your lane.

DO NOT ACCELERATE WHEN YOU ARE BEING OVERTAKEN.

Kersh

Gently.. now gently I said, pull up to the back of them and nudge their back bumper. After a few taps they move over... just like when Im racing... .
But really, just sit there. It helps if you have a fast car, that looks fast, cos whenever I sit behind anyone they pull over if its the 911 or the 300zx, but not if Im in the jeep. Wonder why??

stratos

I cannot cannot fathom why people don't move out of the way.
I have seen occasions when the m1 has almost no traffic in the slow lane, and the overtaking lane with a stream of traffic, how can this be?
I generally undertake em, if there is no room to do this, I flash (the lights that is)at them untill they move.
But this behaviour amazes me, what is going on inside these peoples heads.
I have also seen one or two who steadfastly will not move, they know your there but just won't move.

zod

I think they should do what they do in Australia, hang signs up that say :

[size=+2]"Stay left when not overtaking - Fine $150" [/size]

Then ... wait for it .... ENFORCE THE LAW!

Seth Brundle

zod wrote:

Then ... wait for it .... ENFORCE THE LAW!

Ha ha ha ha - good one!
Mike - move this to the humour forum!

Pataman

Every taxi and bus is then breaking the law. They undertake in the bus lane often faster than traffic moving in the lane next to them, and I dont mean when it is slow moving, when it is moving at a reasonable pace.

boardsee

Whats the logic behind the rule of not overtaking/"undertaking" i nthe left hand lane on a motorway? Surely if the right hand lane is being hogged, you can just drive by on the left?? Is this dangerous or something, i dont see how, can someone point it out to me please.

Or is it just stoopid Irish rules of the road.

HashSlinging

The thing is (this happens 9 out of 10 times) if someone is hogging the overtaking lane and you undertake them, they move into the driving lane, happens everytime, you need a powerful car to out-wit them, I've sat there for 10 mins waiting and then go to move and then they try to block you overtaking them from the inside.

Capt'n Midnight

boardsee wrote:

Whats the logic behind the rule of not overtaking/"undertaking" i nthe left hand lane on a motorway? Surely if the right hand lane is being hogged, you can just drive by on the left?? Is this dangerous or something, i dont see how, can someone point it out to me please.

Or is it just stoopid Irish rules of the road.

In the states they have freeways, where you are free to drive at any speed in any lane. Back on planet earth where individual freedom are tempered by the duty not to harm society by recklessness the laws are a little different.

Unless traffic is choc a bloc then if everyone keeps to the left and overtakes on the right the whole thing moves faster. At present two muppets driving at 50mph can convert the M50 to a suburban link road (the same two muppets would drive at 50mph in a 40mph zone) problem is that they do it every bleedin day :mad:

Seth Brundle

boardsee wrote:

Whats the logic behind the rule of not overtaking/"undertaking" i nthe left hand lane on a motorway? Surely if the right hand lane is being hogged, you can just drive by on the left?? Is this dangerous or something, i dont see how, can someone point it out to me please.

Or is it just stoopid Irish rules of the road.

The logic is that nobody should be hogging the overtaking lane and therefore no need to undertake!

unkel

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

At present two muppets driving at 50mph can convert the M50 to a suburban link road (the same two muppets would drive at 50mph in a 40mph zone)

Yep. And there is no legal / moral / practical solution unfortunately. I would never tailgate. Flashing doesn't work most of the time as most Irish drivers are so ignorant / incompetent they wouldn't even notice. The third way is to undertake

The only country in which I ever resorted to undertaking is Ireland

causal

boardsee wrote:

Whats the logic behind the rule of not overtaking/"undertaking" i nthe left hand lane on a motorway? Surely if the right hand lane is being hogged, you can just drive by on the left?? Is this dangerous or something, i dont see how, can someone point it out to me please.

Or is it just stoopid Irish rules of the road.

Safety safety safety. Progress progress progress.
It's like the escalators in the tube stations in London - stand to the left so that people in a hurry can pass on your right.
Unfortunately you gets morons that wreck the system for everybody around them.

Most people (including truck drivers) don't know that trucks, buses and any vehicle towing another aren't allowed in the overtaking lane - except in exceptional circumstances (an emergency / accident etc.).

If there was no keep left rule then you'd have a race track scenario where people are lane weaving left, right agus center.

causal

causal

Has anyone ever done the following - I've thought of but never actually done it:

Undertake the slow moving lane hogger - and then move back into the overtaking lane - and gradually slow down so that they're forced to undertake you

causal

fletch

causal wrote:

Most people (including truck drivers) don't know that trucks, buses and any vehicle towing another aren't allowed in the overtaking lane - except in exceptional circumstances (an emergency / accident etc.).
l

You sure? I've never heard about that before but I totally agree with it....so annoying in the mornings when a truck tries to overtake another truck on the M50 between Firhouse & Balinteer....takes them about 2 miles to complete the manoeuvre!

fletch

causal wrote:

Has anyone ever done the following - I've thought of but never actually done it:

Undertake the slow moving lane hogger - and then move back into the overtaking lane - and gradually slow down so that they're forced to undertake you

causal

Can't say I have but I will undertake and then swerve quite agressively back into the overtaking lane to "register" my annoyance, then slap on my rear fog light to further highlight this....then indicate left & move back into the left lane.

giveth

causal wrote:

Has anyone ever done the following - I've thought of but never actually done it:

Undertake the slow moving lane hogger - and then move back into the overtaking lane - and gradually slow down so that they're forced to undertake you

causal

I've seen this happen... it was very funny. The person undertook and moved into the overtaking lane and slowed. He kept slowing until he was going no more than 50 kmph. Hogger slowed with him and stayed in the overtaking lane. At this stage I undertook all of them and left them to it. The hogger was a little grey haired old lady. You'd almost feel sorry for her, really.

Seth Brundle

causal wrote:

Most people (including truck drivers) don't know that trucks, buses and any vehicle towing another aren't allowed in the overtaking lane - except in exceptional circumstances (an emergency / accident etc.).

Assuming you are correct then you can include the NRA road planners in their design of the port tunnel - read http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/motoring/2005/0713/1321346595MOT13TUNNEL.html

BrianD3

causal wrote:

Most people (including truck drivers) don't know that trucks, buses and any vehicle towing another aren't allowed in the overtaking lane - except in exceptional circumstances (an emergency / accident etc.).

Not quite correct. Trucks are allowed in the overtaking lane on a 2 lane motorway but not on a 3 lane one.

Jip

The best I've seen was late one night on the M50. I had just overtaken a car on the inside lane and the road as far as I could see was empty bar one car doddling along on the outside lane. When I came up behind him he moved into the inside, fair play to him for that. Then as I moved into the inside lane I checked my mirrors only to see the fool doddling along move immediately back into the outside lane as soon as I went by him ?!?!

BrianD3

The best I've seen was late one night on the M50. I had just overtaken a car on the inside lane and the road as far as I could see was empty bar one car doddling along on the outside lane. When I came up behind him he moved into the inside, fair play to him for that. Then as I moved into the inside lane I checked my mirrors only to see the fool doddling along move immediately back into the outside lane as soon as I went by him ?!?!

Oh, I've seen this plenty of times. It is quite bizarre. I would guess that they move back into the overtaking lane because you are now ahead of them in the driving lane and they prefer to have a totally clear road in front of them. Or perhaps they feel that they'd be wasting roadspace by not using the nice empty overtaking lane.

Macy

I generally just undertake if they don't move over. imo flashing/indicating and/or tailgating just makes them more likely to try and run you off the road when you carry out the move.

So mine is drive up behind them keeping the normal a safe distance, give them a bit of time to react and pull over, if they don't then undertake them if it's safe to do so being ready for them to suddenly remember that the outside lane is for overtaking half way through - always the hard shoulder if you need it...

samo

I did exactly what you did Macy there the other day on the M50 Southbound towards Sandyford.

Came up at 120 kph behind a old dude in a Merc E200 who was doing about 105-110 kph in the overtaking lane, stayed behind him for a few minutes - like you not flashing/tailgating or being agressive and ramming him onto the median and there are cars building up behind me, so finally seeing that he's not intent on budging I indicate and move left and (although its illegal I know) undertake him, of course Mr Merc decides now is the moment he wants to move into the left lane also and proceeds to veer towards me.

He then very indignantly stops and stays where he is and flashes me like a lunactic for undertaking him as he still proceeds to obstruct the overtaking lane with another 5-6 faster moving cars behind him...who then all do the same thing and undertake him as well, yet its me and the other 5 -6 cars that are breaking the law!!

Most times If do undertake somone, I try and stay in the left lane for as long as possible before going back in front of the hogger!

blastman

I've had people do similar to me when I've undertaken them. You sit behind at a reasonable distance, wait for them to move and nothing happens. Finally you decide to undertake. As soon as I'm past them, they pull into the inside lane and start flashing headlights at me in their best how-dare-you indignant manner. Shooting's too good for 'em!

Chalk

undertake and be done with it.
on the bike i give them 3 5 - 7 second chances.

maintain a safe distance and then,
hover at the right looking at them in their right wing mirror, as in, if they checked it theyed see me.
same again at the rear view.
then over to the left.

at this point im convinced there never going to look back so twist the throtle and pass in the left lane,
probably be a few hundred yards ahead by the time they have a chance to go
"bloody bikers zipping up the inside lane......"

seamus

You forgot one option.

B + Flash lights once, then A if they fail to move/see you.

Chalk

ive flashed my lights in the way you mention a few time seamus.

each time the driver of the car has swerved at me as i pass.
not worth the risk imo

Cond0r

Ohh I so feel this pain every day on my way to work on the M50. There are constantly people that just plain refuse to move over even if the left lane is completely empty.
If any of you have ever driven abroad, UK, and Germany I would take as examples.
In the UK if there are 3 lanes you have the slow lane - with trucks/busses/slow cars all moving at the same speed, the middle lane with people doing the speed limit, and then the overtaking lane on the outside with people, well, overtaking.
If anyone stays too long in the overtaking lane they will immediately get flashed/beeped by drivers as this is the norm.

In Germany its about the same I think, and of course on some stretches of motorway you can do any speed you like, and most of the time people see you coming and move over without you having to do anything... and if you do.. it's usually flick the left indicator and they'll move over.

Irish people just have not learned how to use motorways properly, and in general have some EXREMELY bad driving habits regarding driver curtesy.

Funxy

What's even more annoying is heading along in the slow lane which is completly free of traffic, then coming around the corner only to see someone doing about 100 in the fast lane with noone else on the road. What do you do? Keep driving at your steady 120 in the slow lane, undertake and risk breaking the law. Or move to the fast lane come up behind, slow to their speed and wait for five mins before they realise your there :rolleyes:

BrianD3

Wait till the M50 gets upgraded to 3 lanes. Fun and games then. On 3 lane m-ways in the UK it's common to see drivers hogging the middle lane. On a 3 lane motorway both the outside and middle lane are overtaking lanes, the inside lane is for driving in and should be used if you're not overtaking anything.

When we get 3 laners here I envisage "double undertaking" occuring. Drivers hogging the middle lane will be annoyed with outside lane hogs and will undertake them while at the same time being themselves undertaken by drivers in the inside lane.

PS will people please stop using the terms "slow lane" and "fast lane". The more these terms are bandied about the more chance of confusion

Funxy

Im sorry about the use of 'slow lane' 'fast lane' Used to saying it that way seeing as very few other irish people know what your on about if you dont put motorway driving in simple terms! Was brilliant in the uk with the three lanes and i was plesently surprised to find myself in the inside lane flying along on many occasions

db

I was on the N7 a while back before the roadworks began. Approaching City West where there is a very long off ramp into City West. It's early morning and the traffic in both lanes is fairly heavy. The villain is going in and out of the lanes trying to weave his way through the traffic and not getting very far. Then he sees the new lane on the left and crosses two lanes to get into it, undertakes a few cars in the normal driving lane and just gets back out before the off ramp swerves away.

I continued on to the end of the M50 in Sandyford and there was my "friend" directly in front of me in the queue. Best laugh I had in ages.

jackal

People are always bull****ting on about this overtaking on the left being illegal. Why would one ****wit who is determined to stay in the fast lane - at say 31mph - be able to hold up an entire two lane motorway because anyone driving by him on the left lane would be breaking the law? Cop on!

Its a two lane road - so long as you stick to the limit, then you can drive away in the left lane, regardless of what idiots are doing in the overtaking lane.

Stark

It says in the rules of the road that there are certain situations where you can overtake on the left. One of them obviously is when there's a car turning right. Another is when traffic in the overtaking lane is moving slowly.

kermit_ie

The law says these are the only times where it it permissable to overtake on the left.

• When the driver ahead has moved out and given a right turn signal and you intend to go straight ahead or turn left.
• When you intend to turn left and have signalled this intention.
• Where traffic is moving slowly and the vehicles in the lane on your right are moving more slowly than the traffic in your lane.

The law however does not define how slowly traffic has to be moving...

blastman

Funxy wrote:

Im sorry about the use of 'slow lane' 'fast lane' Used to saying it that way seeing as very few other irish people know what your on about if you dont put motorway driving in simple terms! Was brilliant in the uk with the three lanes and i was plesently surprised to find myself in the inside lane flying along on many occasions

That's another thing about motorway drivers here, many of them seem to think their car will disintegrate over 100km/h. The number of cars doing less than 100km/h is amazing - does it indicate a general inability to handle a car at speed?

Funxy

I guess in a way it may indicate people are scared of driving at any sort of speed above 100. Thinking about it you never have to drive over 30mph when taking any lessons/driving test as its all done in city centers. It would be great to have an additional day course that everyone would have to take in safe driving, even if not tested on it at the end of the day. Just like having a compulsory amount of hours for driving lessons.

zod

then fine em!

AMurphy

kbannon wrote:

Ha ha ha ha - good one!
Mike - move this to the humour forum!

right, if the law was being enorced, there would not be a car hogging the "other" lane. I won't use "passing" intentionally.
So the chances of you getting nabbed for "under-taking" are very slim, unless the car you are underpassing is a cop-car and already doing 90mph.

however, just stay in the free lane and pass by, no need to pull about them, or any other antics, just sail by and be on your way.
if the drive in the "other" lane wakes up, gets all peed off, etc and speeds up, starts fingering (as happened me), etc, so what, let them, you hold your speed and carry on as before. The moment's too good to allow some other jerk driver to upset it.

happy miles.

DubTony

I usually give them a few seconds to pull over. If they don't I pull inot the left lane and wait a few more seconds. If they still don't pull over (unlikely at this point) then it's check mirror for cops , hug yellow line and boot down watching their indicators and front wheels just in case. Only once did someone pull in. Hogger was pressured by a gobsh!te behind (flashing and beeping) and decided to pull just after I accelerated. I used the shoulder and kept on going. Shame on the guy doing the flashing. He obviously didn't think that maybe he wasn't the only mad bastard on the road

The ones that get me though are the fúckers who accelerate as you undertake them. They then do their best to box you in. Had this on the M50 one night last summer with a guy in an old XJ6. When I got back out behind him he slowed down to 50 mph. I pulled into the left lane after overtaking something and off he went, but slowed so I caught him again. He travelled at the same speed as me 60mph until I was boxed in again.

Then the lunatic in me reared it's ugly head. I moved into the shoulder and overtook the car in front. When I came out again Mr XJ was just behind and beside me. But I had a clear road, and guess what, he had a hogger. So I slowed to the same speed as the hogger and boxed the bastard in. My exit was only a few seconds away so it didn't last long. Needless to say he got the finger as I went up the ramp. Stupid, I know. But the road rage - I mean, what can you do when the motorway monster inside takes over?

causal

What we need is PROPER SIGNAGE and PROPER ENFORCEMENT
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causal

AMurphy

DubTony wrote:

..... Stupid, I know. But the road rage - I mean, what can you do when the motorway monster inside takes over?

True. cool , but stay between the ditches if you can.

John R

DubTony wrote:

I usually give them a few seconds to pull over. If they don't I pull inot the left lane and wait a few more seconds. If they still don't pull over (unlikely at this point) then it's check mirror for cops , hug yellow line and boot down watching their indicators and front wheels just in case. Only once did someone pull in. Hogger was pressured by a gobsh!te behind (flashing and beeping) and decided to pull just after I accelerated. I used the shoulder and kept on going. Shame on the guy doing the flashing. He obviously didn't think that maybe he wasn't the only mad bastard on the road

One of the worst near misses I had was due to a lane hogger and a third car. The closest was due to a woman who did a 360 degree turn from the hard shoulder to the outside lane (facing the wrong way) and then onto the off ramp she had overshot but that's a story for a different idiot driver thread.

Not that long after I had been driving about a year or so I happened upon two cars doing about 50 in the outside lane of an otherwise empty motorway. The rear car was right behind the first one but the hogger was not moving over. After a minute or so the second car pulled into the left lane but didn't pass the first car, I was getting very pissed off at this stage and pulled right up to the hog flashing headlights at him. While I was doing this the second car slowed down and backed off, last I saw it was about 5-6 car lengths behind. I continued to try to force the idiot hog to the left for a while and eventually gave up and rather quickly decided to undertake. Quick glance in mirrors and left I went only to be met by feverish beeping and the sudden appearance of car right beside me in the side mirror. It turns out the second car had accelerated again while I was concentrating on the back of the hogger's head and she had positioned her car perfectly in my blind spot.


These days when I catch up with a lone lane hog as I am usually in the left lane with the cruise control on I do not even attempt to get them to move over, I just carry on as if nothing is there although I do keep a close watch on them in case they make a dive for the inside lane.

iregk

I think the general point here is that a) irish motorists are thick and dont know about it and b) some are stubborn ignorant and have a your not going to overtake me attitude.

I really pissed a guy in a big 4x4 off one night and he was not impressed. I was behind a young chap in a swift (306 gti myself) pulled out to overtake and from nowhere this 4x4 comes thundering up the back of me. Now im in the overtaking lane doing 70 (1 year ago so imperial system applied) and this ass starts to flash lights. Now regardless of overtaking lane or not 70 is still the max your allowed to go so I said fcuk him. The chap in the swift seeing this slowed to 50 as did I, boxed the prat in and dragged him all the way from the redcow to the tallaght exit of the M50. He was bulling. Only after the chap in the swift rolling around his car laughing at this stage pulled off I planted it and the look on the chaps face in the 4x4 was pure class.

But its all ignorance. Personally I've no problem under taking. Sometimes that signals to a person to get out of the over taking lane as your not exactly over taking. But we need more traffic police for such incidents.

True story also what happened to a friend of mine. Driving down the M7 was over taking someone and came up behind a car in the over taking lane cuising along gingerly at 50 or so. He pulls up behind and the car dont move an inch. Actually slows down!!! Flash of the lights = slows down ever more. Not a sinner at this stage in the left lane so off he goes and under takes. As soon as he is past he pulls in front of the other car only to be met with a blue flashing light from that car!!!! A bloody garda unmarked!!!! Pulled him in and done him for dangerous driving!!!!