How to become a pilot?

kluivert

Is there anyone here that is a pilot or know someone that is a pilot.

Is was a life long dream to become an airline pilot which i lost when i went to college and now that college is over and am working away, the idea has again risen and i was wondering if anyone knew anything about getting a license in Ireland or training or anything

My initial plan was to apply to Aer Lingus, they use to have a recruitment programme but stopped in 2001.

No RAF suggestions please to old i think.

PhoenixRising

What do you want to know exactly? Post back some more specific questions and I'll do my best to answer them for you.

SouperComputer

in terms of a career, im not too sure. I think trinity have a course

in any even, the 1st step is to get your PPL (Private Pilot Licence)

It requires that you do AT LEAST 47 hours of logged flying. After that you can take the flight exam. Flight lessons cost in the region of €130 PH.

There is also a shed load of ground school, covering all sorts of things: regs, flight controls, naviagion etc.

The above figures are not exact, im just posting my best recollection.

If you cant go to college to do it and you end up paying. Best thing to do is 10hours here, then jet off to the states and finsh you PPL. I think some schools can have you finished in a month for about $4500 - $5000 which is much more cost effective than here.

Bluehair

Plus on to the above figure on getting your night rating, twin, instruments and atpl plus a few hundred hours flying under your belt.

You're looking at a minimum of €50k out of your own pocket plus a few years of your time.

After that if you're lucky you may be able to work your way up through poor paying jobs in commuter airlines eventually getting onto decent paying work at the majors.

Haven't put you off yet? Check out http://www.pprune.org for a whole forum dedicated to what they call 'wannabes'. It's a veritable goldmine.

The good old days of cadetships and free training from Aer Lingus etc. are long gone and likely never to return so you'll need money, time, commitment and ability to reach your goal but if you truely enjoy flying then many would still consider it a decent career.

If you're thinking of doing it for the money or 'prestige' then think again.

snakeater

Check out this link. This goes through the process of how you become an airline pilot.


http://travel.howstuffworks.com/pilot2.htm

kluivert

i was wondering where in Ireland can a person go to train and get there private pilots license. I live in the North East (Monaghan) so i am getting Dublin would be the closest right?

secret_squirrel

kluivert wrote:

i was wondering where in Ireland can a person go to train and get there private pilots license. I live in the North East (Monaghan) so i am getting Dublin would be the closest right?

Its not that cost effective getting a ppl in ireland. The major factors being cost and available flying days.

When you first go for a license you can only fly on good weather days - which as few and far between here! This means racking up the prerequisite hours takes a very long time. I've heard that South Africa is a popular place to get a ppl. Reason being it is much cheaper and the weather allows many more potential flying days.*

*All said to me by a mate who seriously looked into it.

BossArky

This thread reminds me that I had the same dream when I was young.

On a different note, a colleague of mine has his PPL and told a hairy story about loosing concentration once. When he looked up there was a plane flying straight at him which dived to the right. Apparently you are supposed to dive to the left if you are in a head on collision. My colleague was so shocked that he just went straight ahead... luckily... cos if he backed left as the other plane dived right... then BANG.

DonkeyStyle \o/

Just walk into Dublin airport and tell them you're here for the pilot interview.

Seriously though, my cousin has been training as a pilot for years... I can only imagine how much it must have cost him.
My hat goes off to anyone who pours their own money into lessons and flight hours... seeing as how it's not going to make you a millionaire... so you know it's more about the fascination and love of flight than greed with these people.

vannistelrooy10

kluivert wrote:

Is there anyone here that is a pilot or know someone that is a pilot.

Is was a life long dream to become an airline pilot which i lost when i went to college and now that college is over and am working away, the idea has again risen and i was wondering if anyone knew anything about getting a license in Ireland or training or anything

My initial plan was to apply to Aer Lingus, they use to have a recruitment programme but stopped in 2001.

No RAF suggestions please to old i think.

i have apllied to every company that flies i have come to a conclusion you need to know a pilot i.e daddy or you need e100,000 to spend in spain on a commercial licence approved by all the big airlines. the future for pilot is bleak anyways the pay will get not as great and there will be fewer with bigger planes like the a380

FX Meister

Not that many jobs in it at the moment. And the pay isn't great now compared to what it used to be.

Borzoi

vannistelrooy10 wrote:

i have apllied to every company that flies i have come to a conclusion you need to know a pilot i.e daddy or you need e100,000 to spend in spain on a commercial licence approved by all the big airlines. the future for pilot is bleak anyways the pay will get not as great and there will be fewer with bigger planes like the a380

Possibly is like that now - I started applying in the early nineties - got to first round interviews with Aer Lingus. 2nd round with BA - they're a class act TBH

Looked into a bit further afterwards, but there was no way I (or the family) could have afforded private training. Popular spots for training are Florida or Australia - but as others ppoint out you then start work for the smallest of companies, trying to get your hours up.

I talked to a chopper Pilot working on a cattle ranch in Oz - for buttons - he reckoned about 2 years with them just building log time up before a major would even look at him, and I think that ranch had about 5 pilots.

Best of luck with the dream though - it's still a major regret of mine

PhoenixRising

kluivert wrote:

i was wondering where in Ireland can a person go to train and get there private pilots license. I live in the North East (Monaghan) so i am getting Dublin would be the closest right?

To get a job as an airline pilot you need to have as a minimum, a Commercial Pilots Licence with a mutil-engine instrument and have passed all 14 of the Airline Transport Pilots Licence (ATPL) written examinations. You'll see this written down as CPL/Multi/IR, and when combined with the ATPL written exams it's sometimes referred to as 'Frozen ATPL'. Confused yet?

There are only two places in Ireland authorised to train pilots to ATPL standard. One of them is the National Flight Centre at Weston, and the other is a school in Waterford Airport which I can't remember the name of. Personally, I wouldn't recommend any aspiring airline pilot to train at either of these schools because it will cost you a fortune, it'll be slow, and the standard of training isn't great. You can look into flying in the States, and you probably will find this to be the cheapest option, but cheapest isn't usually best, and I wouldn't really recommend it again due to poor training standards in many US flight schools. There are also many differences between the US and the European licences, training syllabus, and rules and regulations, so you may find yourself having to re-sit the european Air Law exams, and/or flight tests when you return to Europe looking for a job.

If you are serious about it, my advice is to train in either Oxford Air Training School or BAe Systems in Jerez. These are widely accepted as Europe's elite flight training schools. The cost of training in these two schools is high, but it's a full-time intensive course for about 14 months, and will almost guarantee you a job when you graduate. Most European airlines take their pilots from these two schools. Aer Lingus and British Airways use these two schools to train their cadets. The course will cost around €70,000. If it is what you want to do, the money is worth it in my opinion. You could have it paid back in a couple of years after you get a job. The only other alternative is to try to get yourself on an airline sponsorship scheme, where the airline will pay for your training and give you a job when you finish. The only such scheme run in Ireland was run by Aer Lingus and it's doubtful whether or not they will ever run the scheme again. The last time they hired cadets was in the summer of 2000, and they subsequently let the 44 cadets go in the aftermath of 9/11 when Aer Lingus was in trouble.

Best of luck with it, if it's what you want to do. You really have to want it to get there. The training is not easy, and will require bucket-loads of commitment, dedication, and hard work. If you've any other questions feel free to ask.

kluivert

I was checking out a few places.

Easy jet have a recruitment in which you have to fork out for a £60,000.00 bond for training and they pay for the rest.

I think ill stick to RC planes. The dream will continue be a dream. Its ashame its too too expensive for me, I just luv flying, the money wouldnt really bother me but its too much to handle.

It seems that flying nowadays is for the rich only.

Id like to thank everyone for their comments and suggestions, it was very much appreciated.

secret_squirrel

FX Meister wrote:

Not that many jobs in it at the moment. And the pay isn't great now compared to what it used to be.

Its worth noting the pay is still pretty good by anyones standards if you are working for a major airline. 60-90k is easily achievable. Over 100k with long service and multiple type quals.

Actual working hours are also short although obviously the hours can be awkard ones.

jackofalltrades

Apparently you are supposed to dive to the left if you are in a head on collision.

Your actually supposed to turn to the right.

FX Meister

Actually no, you just pull up.

secret_squirrel

FX Meister wrote:

Actually no, you just pull up.

How does that avoid a collision? If both planes are climbing then the net effect is that they are still heading towards each other.

vannistelrooy10

secret_squirrel wrote:

How does that avoid a collision? If both planes are climbing then the net effect is that they are still heading towards each other.

the collision aviodace system on the commercial aircraft send signals one will tell one pilot to climb and the other to descend. very unlikely a mid air collision will ever happen again after the russian tuplov and the dhl boeing over germany

RicardoSmith

secret_squirrel wrote:

Its worth noting the pay is still pretty good by anyones standards if you are working for a major airline. 60-90k is easily achievable. Over 100k with long service and multiple type quals.

Actual working hours are also short although obviously the hours can be awkard ones.

I've a few mates who are pilots. They all make a very good living.

FX Meister

FX Meister wrote:

Actually no, you just pull up.

Well they both go vertically up. Then they communivate via a device called a radio, some new planes have them you know, and they decide who gos which way

Bluehair

FX Meister wrote:

Well they both go vertically up. Then they communivate via a device called a radio, some new planes have them you know, and they decide who gos which way

:rolleyes: glad you're not a pilot.

(e) Approaching head-on. When aircraft are approaching each other head-on, or nearly so, each pilot of each aircraft shall alter course to the right.

http://www.risingup.com/fars/info/part91-113-FAR.shtml

FX Meister

Actually, I am, therefore I'm a pilot.

PhoenixRising

FX Meister wrote:

Actually, I am, therefore I'm a pilot.

What kind of licence do you have?

Scruff

RicardoSmith wrote:

I've a few mates who are pilots. They all make a very good living.

and are members of the mile high club??

on a more serious note, can you become a comerical pilot if you wear glasses?

PhoenixRising

Scruff wrote:

on a more serious note, can you become a comerical pilot if you wear glasses?

Yes absolutely. There are certain limits though, and you have to carry a second pair with the same lens while flying.

Pataman

FX Meister wrote:

Actually, I am, therefore I'm a pilot.

Worrying! When I was training I was always told to turn to the right

Scruff

PhoenixRising wrote:

Yes absolutely. There are certain limits though, and you have to carry a second pair with the same lens while flying.

thats not what i was told when i was looking into doing it after secondry. if only i had the internet or had a bit more initiative back then

Zulu

FX Meister wrote:

Well they both go vertically up. Then they communivate via a device called a radio, some new planes have them you know, and they decide who gos which way

Vertically up and then use radio!?! What happens if one plane is near it's maximum altitude? ...what about risk if stall? What about the climbing arc? what if the planes are too close?

Who do you fly for? ...I'm just interested to know who I'll never fly with ever agin.

therecklessone

BossArky wrote:

On a different note, a colleague of mine has his PPL and told a hairy story about loosing concentration once. When he looked up there was a plane flying straight at him which dived to the right. Apparently you are supposed to dive to the left if you are in a head on collision. My colleague was so shocked that he just went straight ahead... luckily... cos if he backed left as the other plane dived right... then BANG.

If he was flying VFR then he should turned to the right as previously pointed out.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZSI568Y2001.html

Approaching head-on
When two aircraft are approaching head-on or approximately so and there is danger of a collision, each shall alter its heading to the right;

FX Meister is taking out his a*se methinks.

SouperComputer

on a more serious note, can you become a comerical pilot if you wear glasses?

yup, but colour-blindness may mean you can only fly commercial cargo planes. At least this is what I was told a few years ago.

In any event, even getting your PPL is going to set you back 5-6 grand at least, but more than likely 10-15.

PhoenixRising

SouperComputer wrote:

yup, but colour-blindness may mean you can only fly commercial cargo planes. At least this is what I was told a few years ago.

That's rubbish. Colour blindness will exclude you from being able to fly commercially (and that includes cargo). Even for private flying, getting a medical certificate with colour blindness will be next to impossible. All pilots, whether private or commercial require an aviation medical certificate or their licences are invalid. Commercial pilots have to undergo a medical every year, and once you reach age 40 it's every 6 months.

In any event, even getting your PPL is going to set you back 5-6 grand at least

Around 5 grand is a reasonable figure to expect to pay, but that will usually be over about 2 years, unless you go for one of these 'PPL in 4 weeks' things in the US. They should be outlawed - it's a licence to kill.

but more than likely 10-15.

Again rubbish.

SouperComputer

getting a medical certificate with colour blindness will be next to impossible.

TBH im not 100% sure, but I would say that it depends on the colours you are sensitive to and how many of them you have difficulty with.

At least this is what applies for a Motorsport licence., I am red-green colourblind however I can still race.

Hopefully its not an issue with a PPL otherwise im throwing money down the drain!

FX Meister

Zulu wrote:

Who do you fly for? ...I'm just interested to know who I'll never fly with ever agin.

Ryan Air.

Zulu

FX Meister wrote:

Ryan Air.

Now I believe you!

PhoenixRising

FX Meister wrote:

Ryan Air.

Bull****. You can't even spell the name of the company you work for correctly. It was Ryanair last time I checked. That, allied with your extremely sketchy understanding of TCAS and even the most basic Rules of the Air leads me to that conclusion.

What aircraft are you on then? PM me your name, I've got a few close friends who fly for Ryanair. Maybe they know you?

FX Meister

My Names Karl Maloney, I fly a Bowing 632. Yeah, I know your friends well.

PhoenixRising

FX Meister wrote:

My Names Karl Maloney, I fly a Bowing 632. Yeah, I know your friends well.

Hmm, never heard of a Bowing 632.

Who's the head of the training in Ryanair then?

seamus

I never realised that the upper age limit for the Air Corps was 25. Surely this could be challenged on discrimination grounds?

WhiteWashMan

pipe down ladies.

FX, you sound like youre talking sh1te.

either give it a rest or post something useful, and not something vague and rubbish as usual.

FX Meister

Whatever you say cowboy whitewash.

seamus

PhoenixRising wrote:

That's rubbish. Colour blindness will exclude you from being able to fly commercially (and that includes cargo). Even for private flying, getting a medical certificate with colour blindness will be next to impossible.

That's what I was thinking. Aren't their red and green lights at the end of runways which are used as guides for landing aircraft? Surely red-green colourblindness would exclude you from flying on this count alone.

PhoenixRising

seamus wrote:

That's what I was thinking. Aren't their red and green lights at the end of runways which are used as guides for landing aircraft? Surely red-green colourblindness would exclude you from flying on this count alone.

Yep, green for the runway threshold lights, taxiway centre-line line lights, and stand lead-in lights. Red for runway end lights, and stopbars etc.. In the final stages of landing, a visual slope indicator called PAPI's guides the pilot as to his optimum approach angle using a combination of red and white lights.

Also, alot of flight instruments are colour coded, red usually denoting a speed or engine limitation, and green for the normal operating range. Alot of warnings are also displayed as flashing red or amber lights in the cockpit.

So, to answer your question, yes, I'd say that red-green colour blindness would definitely exlcude you from flying..

SouperComputer

being red green colour blind does not necessarily mean you cannot differentiate between red and green as such. For motorsport I would need to be able to tell the difference between red and green flags\lights.

anyway, i best find out for certain!

daveg

Haven't read through the entire thread but my GF's cousin went over the UK to get his commercial pilot's licence. Took him a year (flying in Spain and the US). I imagine it cost a shítload. He finished about 4 years ago. Has not worked as a pilot since. He finished about the time air lingus laid off pilots/stopped the recruitment process. I'd think long and hard about your investment before you follow this career path. Maybe think about a helicopter pilot's licence?

On another note I did interviews with the RAF some years back. Max ago was 25 (for pilot). However I also met with one of the Royal Navy recruiters and there maximum ago was higher (28 afair). Much easier to get into the Navy to become a pilot as opposed to the RAF. There are worse jobs than flying Harriers/sea kings off an aircraft carrier.

RicardoSmith

SouperComputer wrote:

being red green colour blind does not necessarily mean you cannot differentiate between red and green as such. For motorsport I would need to be able to tell the difference between red and green flags\lights.

anyway, i best find out for certain!

It the most common form of colour blindness, and besides its not specific colours thats usually the problem its specific shades/tones of colours. Where a light is a different physical light its not a problem. But the threshold lights change color depending on your angle to them, so that would be critical. But its a medical disqualification regardless of the practicalities in the workplace.

Bluehair

Add FX Meister to your ignore list?

<click> submit

Ahhh... wonderful...

(best damn feature boards.ie has )


Back on topic.. The whole eye-testing thing is still a bit of an impediment to the career esp as laser-surgery immediately rules you out (something to do with worsening night-sight?).

Real shame too as I would have loved to be a pilot myself. Must admit though I've no regrets the lifestyles not for everyone. Pilots have one of the highest divorce rates of any job.

kermit_ie

seamus wrote:

I never realised that the upper age limit for the Air Corps was 25. Surely this could be challenged on discrimination grounds?

You'll find the Defence Forces have an exemption on most legistation, including sections of the Road Traffic Act, Health and Safety at Work Act (all of it), and Equality Legislation, in the following circumstances:

( a ) On active service;
( b ) Engaged in action in the course of operational duties at
sea;
( c ) Engaged in operations in Aid to the Civil Power; or
( d ) Engaged in training directly associated with any of the
above mentioned activities.

unkel

FX Meister wrote:

I fly a Bowing

And I drive a yotota doroller :rolleyes:

Third_Echelon

Borzoi wrote:

Possibly is like that now - I started applying in the early nineties - got to first round interviews with Aer Lingus. 2nd round with BA - they're a class act TBH

...... Best of luck with the dream though - it's still a major regret of mine

Same as myself. Did the interviews for AL and BA... still regret not going for it in a way, but if i had gone for it, it would have been very likely that I would have been let go by AL after the 9/11 happenings...

Happy with my career now though...

pilson

To the original poster of this thread:

Be careful about taking advice from this thread. Ive read through most of it and theres a lot of BS in it...
I've been flying light aircraft for about 8 years now. I got a ppl at National Flight Centre at Weston Aerodrome... Previously called Aerial Advertising ltd when I was training....
Someone said the standard of training there is below par. thats untrue. The training there is very highly regarded by recruiting airlines... They had me flying solo after only 8 hours of training... I was flying Weston-Shannon-Galway after ~30 hours... A lot of guys who came through that school have jobs with the airlines now. If you cant afford the 12 month 0-frozen atpl courses offered at Oxford or Jerez, then consider:
- getting a ppl
- hour building
- cpl
- instructors rating
then work as an instructor for a few years whilst doing a twin engine ifr rating. There is a brilliant sim at weston approved for this training that will knock a whole pile of money off the costs...

Im just going into my final year of Uni and will go for the cpl/instructors rating next Summer... But if youve any questions about how to get to the stage Im at then just ask.

As for location, your flight training must be carried out at a registered training facility. A list of such places listed here:
http://www.iaa.ie/safe_reg/lic_rtf.asp
Im sure youll find somewhere closer to Monaghan then Dublin however you may only be able to train to the ppl/hour building stage there...

I read someone say going abroad is cheaper... Also UNTRUE....
flying cost per hour are cheaper elsewhere but factor in Flights, Accomodation, Living expenses, car hire etc etc... And youll be doing well to break even....
Keith.