Clamped because the parking meter was out of order - what to do?

netman

I got clamped yesterday but under extremely annoying circumstances.

I parked the car and went down to the parking machine to get a ticket, but it was out of order. Then I went back to the car, wrote a note saying "Couldnt get a ticket - parking meter out of order" and left it on the dashboard.

When I got back the car was clamped, I rang the number they left and couldn't reason with them, the only way they'd remove it is if I paid the 80 euro.

They also told me that I should have found another parking meter and got a ticket there, and I explained to them that I have better things to do than walk around Dublin looking for a working parking meter. The discussion ended soon after, with a huge difference of opinion

As I don't need the car today, I figured I'd ask here if anyone has any suggestions. They said I have to pay the fine and then I can appeal it if I want to. Is that the only way?

kluivert

Thats a good one but i would be of the opinion that if i went to one that was broken to go find another one that was working regardless of the walk. Parking in Dublin is very expensive 2e an hour i think.

Dundalk is getting just as bad with 1e an hour. It was really cheap before where a 1e would get you at least a hour and a half.

But i think you just had a bad day yesterday and got royally stuffed by these guys.

egan007

Check it out - may dublincity.ie has the answer
But im sure there is a minimum distance a working parking meter has to be away from the parking space.

Einstein

I appealed my clamp aswell. The signs on the road said pay parking was till 12, the meter worked till 7. there were other meters around but I wasn't gonna go look for one either. I payed the €80 then wrote a letter to the address that they gave me, stating my case. Got a cheque in the post about 6 weeks later for the money.

So definitly appeal it.

unkel

netman wrote:

They also told me that I should have found another parking meter and got a ticket there

Yes you should have provided one was near you. You could appeal it but if it turns out a meter was indeed near the one that was broken, you don't stand a chance

Traffic

You should of went and found a working meter

Plenty of them on the streets, wldnt of taken you long to find another one

egan007

Traffic wrote:

You should of went and found a working meter

Plenty of them on the streets, wldnt of taken you long to find another one

Stupid statement - I park in one area where there is only one parking meter and it's a 7 minute walk to it from the furthest parking space
So it may take a very long time to find another considering there is none.
Luckily i know that but if i did not i could be a while walking around in circles

Nuttzz

egan007 wrote:

Stupid statement - I park in one area where there is only one parking meter and it's a 7 minute walk to it from the furthest parking space
So it may take a very long time to find another considering there is none.
Luckily i know that but if i did not i could be a while walking around in circles

I went off looking for a working meter and they were putting the shoe on as I was comming back to put the ticket in the window.

OP appeal by all means, make sure you have the dates times and locations

unkel

egan007 wrote:

it may take a very long time to find another considering there is none

If there is no other meter nearby, I'm sure you could succesfully appeal!

Read in the paper a few weeks ago that about half of the appeals are won

Jumpy

Nuttzz wrote:

I went off looking for a working meter and they were putting the shoe on as I was comming back to put the ticket in the window.

OP appeal by all means, make sure you have the dates times and locations

THey didnt continue did they?

lomb

they want money and its understandable, the motorist is a good cash cow to beat about the head. in fairness i reakon the road to park on probably does cost more than 1 euro an hour to 'rent' in prime areas of dublin where property prices are 1000 euro a square foot to buy. that means about 50 euro a sq foot a year to rent, so a car being 100 sq foot + means 5000 a year which means that their parking charges are reasonable! of course we do own the roads so why should we pay for them

impr0v

Appeal, it's not your responsibility to roam the streets looking for a working machine. I was under the impression that a broken machine automatically meant immunity from clamping for the cars within that machine's catchment, and have often left my car with no ticket in a clamper infested area while availing of this immunity. Seems nothing is sacred anymore.

Petal

I think, when you pay for your ticket. It says something on the back about if the machine is out of order you have to go to the nearest machine that is working. Check it out next time..

ando

kluivert wrote:

Parking in Dublin is very expensive 2e an hour i think.

its not unusual to see 2.50 an hour in city centre areas. I was amazed how cheap it is outside the capital. 60cent an hour in Kells.. I was in shock

Victor

Appeal, see what happens. (that was painful for me )

As I don't need the car today, I figured I'd ask here if anyone has any suggestions. They said I have to pay the fine and then I can appeal it if I want to. Is that the only way?

Yes thats the only way.

impr0v wrote:

Appeal, it's not your responsibility to roam the streets looking for a working machine.

It is your responsibility to go to at least the next street.

I was under the impression that a broken machine automatically meant immunity from clamping for the cars within that machine's catchment

Then every gurrier would have an incentive to damage machines, wouldn't they?

Seth Brundle

Victor wrote:

Appeal, see what happens. (that was painful for me )

WOW - Victor did something wrong!

Victor wrote:

It is your responsibility to go to at least the next street.

Is it just to the next street? i.e. is there a minimum distance to travel before you can find a machine?
What happens if the nearest machine is in a different parking (and also cheaper) zone? As the incorrect hourly fee was not paid, could you be clamped?

Victor

The expectation is if a machine is out of action that you go to the next nearest machine in the same zone. Reasonable behavior is likely to be accepted.

If several machines are out of order you are probably going to be believed. But you should really be phoning them at that stage to tell them.

cormie

But what happens if the ticket says a different street name on it? I think it's ridiculous they expect you to pay if the machine is out of order. If you get a tray of food in a restaurant chain and you go to the till to pay and it just so happens they can't take payment, they can't expect you to go find another one of their franchises to pay there. Instead of letting the food go to waste they should have the kindness to let you eat for free:D Or else close the restaurant for the day... but what would be the point of closing parking spaces for a day? Greed!

Victor

Well it more like self service than a restuarant.

PhoenixRising

I would definitely appeal it. That's ridiculous.

Unless there is another parking meter in sight from the one that's out of order, I wouldn't go wandering around the streets looking for another one. That's completely unreasonable to expect people to do that. We pay extortionist prices for parking anyway, we shouldn't have to go and find another meter on some other street when a meter is out of order for the privelage of paying €2/hour to leave your car on the street.

I was in a similar situation a few weeks ago where I parked in an area where the meter was out of order. There wasn't a second meter in sight from where I parked, nor from the broken meter itself. So I whipped out my phone and took a picture of the parking meter display where it say's 'out of order', just in case the feckers fixed it while I was away and proceed to stick a clamp on my car.

Definitely appeal it.

Victor

Oh, when you buy at an expensive zone, those tickets are valid in cheaper zones.

impr0v

Victor wrote:

Then every gurrier would have an incentive to damage machines, wouldn't they?

As part of a course I did a few years ago i attended a talk by the then director of the DTO who told an anecdote about someone who repeatedly rendered the machine in a particular street inoperable by feeding it matchsticks, in order to avail of free parking. He did, up until they trained one of the traffic cameras on the machine for a day and caught him vandalising it.

Traffic

Netman, what street did it happen on? and roughly what is the location on the street of the broken machine?

Seth Brundle

Victor wrote:

Oh, when you buy at an expensive zone, those tickets are valid in cheaper zones.

I know, but lets say that the machine in the expensive zone (where your car is parked) was out of order and the only other one nearby was a cheaper zone. Is your car parked legally if you use a ticket from a cheaper zone?

em

There are rules for clamping right? One of them, I guess, is to clamp only people who DIDN'T display a valid pay-and-display ticket, I presume!

Now what if after sticking 7,30 euros in a pay-and-display machine expecting to have near 3 hours of parking, the display machine spit a mere 5 minutes ticket? Is it a valid ticket? I guess so...

As you realized the machine is broken, you would expected the same understanding from those in charge of READ the ticket displayed in your car! But no! There's a lot of information in the ticket, but seems that they are not able to interpret them properly! It's clearly stated in the ticket the time the ticket was issued, the amount of money paid, and the expiry date. It's evident that 7,30 euros gives more than 5 minutes, but no, as the expiry date, which is written in BOLD AND CAPITALS LETTERS is the only information they can see, they clamped me!

And when you call them to have you clamp removed, expecting some comprehension for the situation, they say "I understand you sir, but the rule is: once you're clamped, you have to pay the 80 euros removal fee."

So, this is NOT my fault the machine display was not working. This is NOT my fault the person in duty didn't do his work well, and I was told that THE RULES ARE bla bla bla? I would say THE RULE IS TO CLAMP THOSE WHO DON'T PAY-AND-DISPLAY!

After paying 80 euros, waiting almost 1 hour for the removal, get late in an appointment... I still have to write to somewhere to claim my money back!!! I don't think this is right at all! :mad: :mad: :mad:

MercMad

It IS right and its totally fair IMO !

You loked for the handy way out of paying for parking !

People may ASSUME that if the machine doesn't work you can park for free...............YOU CANT !!

You need to get another ticket from another machine, no matter how far away it is, and ensure it is valid for your area !

If you dont do do this, or you cant find a suitable ticket machine..............dont park there !!

It simple !!

However I accept that the clampers want there money first and you WILL and SHOULD have to pay it !

By all mean appeal the case but realise that the clamping folk dont give a toss, no money no release no matter whose fault it is. the barrier placed there is deliberate. If they give these guys the authority to decide imunity then things would be worse !

Wishbone Ash

ando wrote:

its not unusual to see 2.50 an hour in city centre areas. I was amazed how cheap it is outside the capital. 60cent an hour in Kells.. I was in shock

I think the system in Dublin is fairer though. You can put in 20c and park for 5 minutes or whatever 20c will get you. In many provincial towns you have to pay for an hour (usually 50c or €1) even if you are only going to be 5 minutes. Ripoff!

em

em wrote:

Now what if after sticking 7,30 euros in a pay-and-display machine expecting to have near 3 hours of parking, the display machine spit a mere 5 minutes ticket? Is it a valid ticket? I guess so...

Sorry if I didn't make myself clear enough, mate... I PAID €7,30 and the machine put out a ticket for only 5 minutes! Do you mean I shoud pay another €7,30 because the machine was broken? Or should the clamp guy read the entire ticket and not only the expiry time?

_Kaiser_

It's not the OP's fault the machine isn't working. It's up to Dublin City Council (I assume?) to ensure they're working, not expect the public to go hunting for another one. If one is out of order then I'm sure the clampers themselves will quickly become aware of it and can call it in as a fault.

It's like Dublin Bus.. if the card reader doesn't work, should you go validate it on another bus? No, you show it to the driver and he waves you on... One of the few examples of cop-on and common sense winning over blindly following Rules I might add.

Same story here.. Appeal it.

Wishbone Ash

Kaiser2000 wrote:

It's not the OP's fault the machine isn't working. It's up to Dublin City Council (I assume?) to ensure they're working, not expect the public to go hunting for another one. If one is out of order then I'm sure the clampers themselves will quickly become aware of it and can call it in as a fault.

www.dublincitycouncil.ie

Information on Parking Meters #37138
If a Pay & Display machine is out of order, motorists must go to another machine in the same tariff zone or a higher tariff zone to pay the appropriate fee and prevent your vehicle from being clamped.

If this is not possible or there are no machines working in the area please telephone the Parking Enforcement Section on 01 222 2218 from the Pay & Display Machine (this number is displayed on the Pay & Display machine).

If you are paying by mobile phone and are experiencing difficulties, please contact MPark on 1890 882 600.

em

... and what if after you've paid, the ticket is spit out with wrong numbers printed? That was my case! I certainly will claim it back, but don't think this is rigth, though!

It was an annoying and constraining situation, I was stuck for almost one hour, got late in a friend's meeting, had to dispose 80 euros of my money, and all of this because someone is not doing its work well, and/or the rules are non-sense, and/or they are narrow-minded, and/or what-ever-it-was, but certainly it was not my fault, but I had to get all the burocratic procedures of claiming my money back, all the annoying and constraint!:(

This is really not fair!:mad:

em

Ah, and what about all the information in the ticket? Are they useless? It seems so, once nobody read them!

spurious

If the ticket machine was making errors, you will not be the only one affected. Its log will show it took in way more money than it printed ticket time for.

Take your ticket and your receipt for the clampers to the City Council and arrange a refund.

Have you contacted them?

_Kaiser_

Wishbone Ash wrote:

www.dublincitycouncil.ie

Information on Parking Meters #37138
If a Pay & Display machine is out of order, motorists must go to another machine in the same tariff zone or a higher tariff zone to pay the appropriate fee and prevent your vehicle from being clamped.

If this is not possible or there are no machines working in the area please telephone the Parking Enforcement Section on 01 222 2218 from the Pay & Display Machine (this number is displayed on the Pay & Display machine).

If you are paying by mobile phone and are experiencing difficulties, please contact MPark on 1890 882 600.

This is a typically lazy Irish attitude to things. Rather than ensure the machine is working, let's instead make the motorist (who as em points out, has better things to be doing too) run around looking for another machine - or perhaps pay MORE (as they know few people will bother to claim back the difference - hence why Dublin Bus always has lots in unclaimed change at the end of the year).

Just because something is the way it is, doesn't make it right, or mean that it shouldn't be changed. I'm completely with the OP/em on this one. They went with the intention of paying but were unable to do so either because the machine was out of order or not working correctly. It's not their fault, it's the fault of DCC and their maintenance staff.

em

Kaiser2000 wrote:

...
Just because something is the way it is, doesn't make it right, or mean that it shouldn't be changed.

... and we have to make complains about these things!

Do you guys know what could be a good media for that? I intend to send a a letter to The Irish Times and Irish Independent... anywhere else?

Victor

em wrote:

Now what if after sticking 7,30 euros in a pay-and-display machine expecting to have near 3 hours of parking, the display machine spit a mere 5 minutes ticket? Is it a valid ticket? I guess so...

Do you want to give us some context?

el tel

The whole parking meter thing annoys the f@ck out of me. We already pay a shiit load of road tax to drive on the public roads so it´s a bloody disgrace that we should have to pay again to park on the same public roads.

Last time I parked where the meter wasn´t working (Ranelagh, Sat a.m.) I took a picture of the machine to prove it was out of order. IN any case, nothing happened so I was ok.

Victor

el tel wrote:

The whole parking meter thing annoys the f@ck out of me. We already pay a shiit load of road tax to drive on the public roads so it´s a bloody disgrace that we should have to pay again to park on the same public roads.

There is no such thing as road tax ......

Anything in demand (parking in this case) needs a price attached to it, otherwise it will simply be abused.

dubtom

I'm not 100% but isn't there a time limit on how long a car will be clamped for, I mean, left for x amount of time and then removed. I wouldn't leave your car too long OP, it's a lot more than 80 quid to get it removed from the pound.
Just pay the money and appeal I'd say,it could be cheaper in the long run.

jhegarty

Victor wrote:

There is no such thing as road tax ......

Anything in demand (parking in this case) needs a price attached to it, otherwise it will simply be abused.

How about scotland , there your motor tax covers all parking.....

Mayshine

You obviously have not been to Glasgow mate

MercMad

Hold on a sec.................I thought em siad "What if " you put moneyt in and it spat out a ticket with the incorrect time on it......blah blah...........

................did this actually happen ?? Is this how you got clamped ?

Without reading back again I thought that this was speculation and hadn't happened.

Now the fact is that in this Country everyoine is suppossed to make themselves aware of the Law. It up to folk to know it and learn it and stay within it. You cannot plead ignorance !

The same applies here. You are not born with an entitlement to park wherever you want, some places you have to pay for the priviledge, as in this case, and it is up to you to make yourself aware of the rules, which have been posted above !

If you dont obey the rules, you get clamped !!

Taking photos proves nothing and is pointless !

SIMPLE !!

Also if the machine DOES happen to spit out a ticket that has incorrect figures,(if it ever happened) I would think that the obvious thing to do is phone the number on the machine straight away and do as instructed !!

em

Yes, MercMad, it happened and was not speculation. This is why I was clamped. And I agree with you on that ignorance about the law is not an excuse! Also, I understand that DCC should keep a fair and good maintenance of the display machines, and if you get one which is not working (at all!) you have to find another one or find another place to park, but in my case it was aparently working, and I only realized it was not when it splat the ticket.

I paid the @#%$! money and post the #@£;&* letter to DSPS, but my point is, as any other disservice in this country, we should shout it out, loudly, in an attempt to make changes in these stupid procedures!

I sent a formal complaint letter to The Irish Times, another to Irish Independent and another to the DCC Ombudsman... but I don't think, unfortunately, they will really give a ****!

Nevertheless is what I can do...

Victor

em wrote:

I sent a formal complaint letter to The Irish Times, another to Irish Independent and another to the DCC Ombudsman... but I don't think, unfortunately, they will really give a ****!

To be fair, clamping appeals are handled fairly and something like 30-35% of appeals are successful.

the culture of deference

We now come to our consideration of the regulations of the vehicle clamping industry. I welcome from the Irish Parking Association Mr. Keith Gavin, secretary, Mr. Dave Cullen, director, Mr. Neil Cunningham, director, and Mr. Tom Harrington.


http://debates.oireachtas.ie/TRJ/2012/02/07/00004.asp



Deputy Noel Coonan: What instructions do they give to their employees when they go clamping? We spoke about a period of grace but I am concerned about whether they have discretion. If some poor unfortunate lady returns to her car and is under pressure and the clampers are about to commence, does the clamper have discretion to accept the fine rather than go through the whole procedure?


The witnesses referred to Irish Rail, where they operate. Last winter, ticketing machines in my local station were frozen. People got the train and when they got back, their cars were clamped. The machines were not working. What consolation can the operators offer these people and what common sense reason can they give for the hardship they put people through? This was not the fault of these people; it was a failure of the system. I refer to the cost of appeals, on top of what people pay when they are clamped. It is difficult for people to afford it because there is pain in this country at the moment. Some 50% of appeals are successful. What number of people appeal and what number do not bother because they are not aware of it, are scared to appeal or cannot afford it? I would like the witnesses to address the people employed by their organisations, particularly in respect of the aggression to which Deputy McLoughlin referred.


Mr. Tom Harrington: I apologise. If the machines were not working, we would not implement clamping on that site because we check the machines every time we go on site. I will happily look into any individual case with Deputy Coonan if he has the details. Customer service is a major concern for Irish Rail and clamping is a last resort on any of its sites.


One must consider why we are present. My organisation manages 800 sites across the country. We do not just rock up and put signs up that we are clamping. People have an issue, for whatever reason, such as the car park being abused. They need to reserve spaces for themselves or their customers and that is why we are there. We are invited to these sites to solve a problem.


Regarding staff, regulation by the Private Security Authority, PSA, would be a good thing. The second appeals process is independent and is the same service used by Dublin City Council. I stand over that.

galwaytt

MercMad wrote: »

Hold on a sec.................If you dont obey the rules, you get clamped !!

Taking photos proves nothing and is pointless !

hold on a sec yourself. He did obey the rules - it was the meter that didn't play by the rule, i.e., give him a correctly validated ticket for the amount he paid.

A photo does prove something and is evidence. If the Corpo can use cameras to catch people vandalising machines as posted here, you can use cameras to show meters not functioning.

I've done it in Galway, and my wife has done it - and will continue to do so if required.

In Galway the machines in Woodquay are regularly AWOL - I take a picture of the screen/whatever AND phone the number. The lady in Galway the council asks for your reg and if the warden comes around you won't be ticketed, or, if you are, because you logged the fault and called it in, you will be entitled to refund. And I log her name, and date/time of the call as well.

It is the Corpo's job to keep their equipment in order -not ours - and we should neither pay nor be inconvenienced if it isn't.

slimjimmc

galwaytt wrote: »

MercMad wrote: »

Hold on a sec.................If you dont obey the rules, you get clamped !!

Taking photos proves nothing and is pointless !

hold on a sec yourself. He did obey the rules - it was the meter that didn't play by the rule, i.e., give him a correctly validated ticket for the amount he paid.

A photo does prove something and is evidence. If the Corpo can use cameras to catch people vandalising machines as posted here, you can use cameras to show meters not functioning.

I've done it in Galway, and my wife has done it - and will continue to do so if required.

In Galway the machines in Woodquay are regularly AWOL - I take a picture of the screen/whatever AND phone the number. The lady in Galway the council asks for your reg and if the warden comes around you won't be ticketed, or, if you are, because you logged the fault and called it in, you will be entitled to refund. And I log her name, and date/time of the call as well.

It is the Corpo's job to keep their equipment in order -not ours - and we should neither pay nor be inconvenienced if it isn't.

It took you almost 7 years to respond? :eek::eek: :P

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

dutopia

This is a little tricky but I'd be of the opinion that not getting a ticket because the closest machine isn't working is not a good excuse. If it's not working you should either find another machine or park somewhere else. It may be inconvenient but it's just one of those things. Also clampers don't give a toss about excuses - I saw a car before parked outside Holles st with a post it note saying "Emergency, wife in labour", the clampers were already fitting the clamp. Who knows if the note was a genuine reason but the fact is clampers don't care.

OldmanMondeo

I parked at a meter that was out of order before, rang the number it says and they took my reg and gave me 1 hour free. As I was walking back from the meter towards the car, a Dublin city parking van pulled up to the meter and sorted it. I went to get a ticket and he asked was it me who rang and I had a free hour, to use it. I thought all Dublin meters had this number. If so then OP needs to learn to read and pay up.

OldmanMondeo

Oops, just seen a 8 year old thread, sorry OP...