Gibson Les Paul Buying Advice

Kenny_D

Hey everyone

Looking at getting a new guitar. Sold my Ibanez a few months ago so this will be the only electric guitar I'll be getting and I intend to hold onto it for a very long time. So just want some advice as I am new to Les Pauls. Played a friends and loved it so I've decided to get one. Been looking at the ones on Ishibashi. Would this be the best place to buy LP's from? I have €1500 - €2000 to spend in total including any possible import duties and tax. Noticed they had these https://www.ishibashi.co.jp/webshop/guitar/gibson/tokka/index.htm.
. Whats the difference in that to this https://www.ishibashi.co.jp/webshop/guitar/gibson/5060lp_std.htm .
I'll be mainly playing classic rock but also heavier stuff. A lot of thin lizzy. Not sure whether to go with the 50's or 60's neck.Here's a link to some Gibsons they have https://www.ishibashi.co.jp/inventory/stock.cgi?mode=part&part=0 . Any suggestions or advice would be hugely appreciated as this purchase is gonna leave me with a huge loan and want to make sure I get the right one. Thanks

Beecher

Ishibashi are great, cant recommend them enough, got a fantastic bass off them for a fantastic price and it only took a week for delivery! Unfortunatly shipping costs and import duty will higher the price of those les pauls dramatically (to around 1800 euro delivered off the top of my head). Another place you could try would be www.gak.co.uk, where you could pick up a les paul classic for 1550 euro Les Paul Classic. For cheaper alternative les pauls check out Tokai (apparantly the japanese models are amazing) or Orville (i've heard around town that these are actually Gibsons made in Japan during a time they were allowed to call them Gibsons, but im not finding much information about this online, maybe someone here call shed a bit of light on the subject) Orville Example

Kenny_D

Thanks. Well I've never played a classic LP so not sure how they compare to the standard. What are other peoples opinions on these Orville and Tokai guitars? Would I be just as well with one of these or should I just stick with a Gibson

david

Well you can get some nice Tokai Love Rocks (LP copy) VERY cheap, like under €500 on Ebay and lots of people say that the Japanese Tokais play just as good as most Gibsons

Kenny_D

If enough people can vouch for the quality of the Tokai then I might get one. Basically want one single guitar that I wont want to change down the line. Dont mind paying for it up to 2 grand. But I'd have to save again for an amp so a Tokai and a new amp and a vox wah would be nice. Still not totally decided. I just love the sound of the LP's but Gibson are terribly expensive and I know a lot of that price is the name. It's all about sound at the end of the day so I'd rather a different make if it sounded better

Beecher

GStormcrow wrote:

Thanks. Well I've never played a classic LP so not sure how they compare to the standard.

The main differences between the 2 guitars afaik are the Classic comes with a slim* tapered neck as standard (*slim in Gibson terms, it aint no Ibanez), the standard comes with a choice between a slim tapered neck or a rounded neck. The classic is made out of a 2 piece mahagony body whereas the standard is made from one solid piece and the standard has the new burstbucker pickups and the classic has the older 496r and 500t pickups. Oh and the standard doesnt have a scratchplate.

Bear in mind the Classic is 400-500 quid less (not sure if its so drastic from ishibashi), and you can pick up a set of Les Paul Standard pickups from Chris Guitars for $99.

EDIT: If you want to save a fair bit of money keep checkin www.chrisguitars.com for second hand les pauls, he gets them in occasionally enough and he's a lovely guy to deal with and I personally know a few people who have been very satisfied by his services (allthough my order with him hasnt gotten here yet after 3 weeks, hopefully tommorrow)

Beecher

GStormcrow wrote:

If enough people can vouch for the quality of the Tokai then I might get one.

Pop into musician inc in town and try them out head to head (Im fairly sure they have a jap Tokai in there, its goin for around 1200 euro but you'll find it off the net for half that price if you look around)

Kenny_D

Thanks. I'll keep an eye on that site anyway. Need the guitar kinda sharpish though. Got a gig on the 6th next month which I'll need it for

vox

The Tokai les pauls are meant to be excellent. I like look of the LC80s
http://www.ishibashi.co.jp/webshop/guitar/tokai/lc80s.htm
I would be very tempted to get one of these in front of a Gibson. That is if you can do without the badge on the headstock.

Kenny_D

Like I was saying I dont care what make. I'm after that Les Paul sound and if a tokai will give it to me then great... I'll get a good amp too

Kenny_D

Been reading loads of reviews on the Tokais for the last few hours and a lot of people actually put them above the newer Gibsons. Apparently the Tokai are more like the original 57/59 LP's than the current models by Gibson. Havent read a single bad review on the Jap Tokai's so I'm really liking them. Might even order in the next day or two. So.... recommendations anyone? The quilted maple and violin finish look great

Karl Hungus

You could try www.guitarbargains.com as they do really have some good prices, provided they have what you want. And a Gibson Les Paul Custom might just be within your price range from them. They ship out form Belgium, so you don't have to worry about import charges or the like.

Karl Hungus

Actually, I've been looking at those Tokais, and hey, I'm impressed. I might buy one myself, they're fairly cheap, and that LC80S comes in white. Score.

Johnny Storm

Tokai's certainly get very good reviews and as per my post in another thread you could get a made-in-Japan Love Rock 85 Quilted landed, Vat and duty paid for €800 from Ishibashi. Beautiful looking geetar IMHO. I seriously thought of buying one of these myself a few moths ago and if Ishibashi had sold them at that time I probably would have. Music Man and Musician Inc did both have Tokais a few months ago - not sure of the models or if they were Japanese or Korean (?) - check them out.

My understanding is that Tokai use an old fashioned, more expensive way of joining the neck to the body which Gibson themselves gave up years ago and that this has a big impact on the tone. Please correct me if I am wrong

If you are thinking of a Gibson LP do check the price in In Tune Music in Dun Laoghaire before you buy per my other post.

david

http://www.ishibashi.co.jp/webshop/guitar/tokai/lc80s.htm
^^This Tokai works out at €108 without shipping and tax... Must be priced wrong on Ishabashi (14400 yen)

Kenny_D

Lol no thats the price of the hard case, The price of the guitar is at the top right.... 67200 yen

david

Hahahaha ok! Jesus I was thinking they were a bit cheap

Johnny Storm

freakonaleashx wrote:

Hahahaha ok! Jesus I was thinking they were a bit cheap

You must continue your studies of the inscrutable ways of the East, little grasshopper.........



FYI its 16,000 yen for shipping (~ 120 yoyos)

Ravelleman

I have a few pieces of information to offer here.

Regarding Les Paul Classic vs Les Paul Standard: the Les Paul classics only sport a maple plain top. Les Paul Standards usually come with a flamed maple top. Les Paul Classics come with a pickguard that has 1960 engraved on it. Les Paul standards do come with a pickguards, although they aren't always attached. The Les Paul classic only comes with the slim tapered 1960s neck. The standard comes with a choice of 1950s fat or 1960s slim. The pickups on the classics are widely regarded as being worse than those on the standards. The Les Paul Classic comes with aged green inlays - almost snot green. The Les Paul standard comes with pearloid inlays. I'd recommend a 2nd hand standard.

Regarding Japanese copies: the three main companies here are Burny (owned by Fernandes), Edwards (owned by ESP) and Tokai. The Burnys on Ishibashi are quite cheap and are not made in Japan - they're Korean. However, Japanese Burnys can be found second hand. Edwards are very high quality Japanese guitars. They're ESP's non-export Les Paul style guitars. Personally I'd recommend an Edwards as they comes with nice features at a good price. You can get them brand new on ebay. Edwards LP custom, Edwards 59 LP and Edwards '54 LP Goltop. That being said, Tokai do make nice guitars. I would however take the reviews putting them above Gibsons with a pinch of salt. A lot of people exaggerate the QC (quality control) issues with Gibsons. Very few of their guitars have QC issues.

Wildcard: if you want a nice, very high quality, American made Les Paul style then I'd recommend Heritage guitars. The company was formed by Gibson luthiers who were fired when Gibson moved to use more machines in the manufacturing process. Heritage guitars are 90% hand made and use better quality components - like real mother of pearl. They're also cheaper than Gibsons. http://www.heritageguitar.com/
Heritage H150cm

Of them all I'd go with Edwards as the budget option and Heritage as the premium option.

Just my 2 cents

Ravelleman

By the way, I did work experience in Musician Inc a few weeks ago and at that time they had a Korean Tokai in quilted red, a Black Beauty style Japanese Tokai and a sexy white LP custom style Japanese Tokai. I'm almost certain they still have them all.

Musician Inc also have a nice Les Paul Swamp Ash Studio but it's hilariously over priced :rolleyes:.

david

Ravelleman wrote:

Korean Tokai in quilted red

How much

Ravelleman

Can't remember :rolleyes:. The price is only one phone call away though...

david

Under a grand? Im too lazy too call them

Kenny_D

Thanks everyone. Looking into all these things now. Hopefully gonna get some advice on a tokai guitar forum as well. Will let you know when I decide

Kenny_D

Freak the Korean Tokai's dont seem as good as the Jap ones. They use cheaper parts and are not supposed to sound as good. I'd be interested in checking out those Jap ones they have though

Beecher

Check out this store for Tokai deals . They only have one jap tokai in their ebay shop but apparantly have loads more in their shop, and its only 735 euro (499 pounds) for a new jap love rock standard (in various colours, but I kinda like the silver one they have here )

Edit:They appear to be in the u.k despite ebay saying u.s

Voodu Child

GStormcrow wrote:

Freak the Korean Tokai's dont seem as good as the Jap ones. They use cheaper parts and are not supposed to sound as good. I'd be interested in checking out those Jap ones they have though

Yeah, Korean Tokais are pretty useless, not much better than an Epiphone...
Japanese Tokais are excellent. There should be examples of both in Musicmaker or Musician inc., the country of origin is on the back of the headstock. Try playing them side by side and see if you think the difference is worth it.

PS i believe some of the Japanese Tokais have a flamed sycamore top instead of maple. No idea what difference it makes to the sound, its something ive never heard of on any other guitars..maybe someone can shed some light on this..

Beecher

freakonaleashx wrote:

How much

Its 680 euro. Tried a few tokais out today, korean and jap, the jap one I tried was fantastic, real nice player, sounded the business too, but at 1480 euro I wouldnt be buying one over here. The korean one had a lovely neck, quite light I felt compared to a real les paul (some ppl might like that), and might make a lovely guitar with a complete hardware change (new machine heads, p/ups etc).

Ravelleman

Yikes, that's a bit of a rip.

Here's a Korean Tokai on ebay. The shipping company seems to be paying customs duty. It's $100 to ship it to Ireland. That's $575. Do the maths for Euros. It's a lot less than in Ireland. He has a few other colours too.

That being said though, I wouldn't recommend you go down that root.

david

Ah ok... Are all of the ishabashi Tokais Japanese made?

http://www.ishibashi.co.jp/webshop/guitar/tokai/ls80f.htm

Im looking at that one with dark red transparent finish

Ravelleman

Seriously though, if you're thinking about a Japanese Tokai then get one of those Edwards. It's a serious guitar for the money. Made by ESP too.

Ravelleman

At the top of the page on the English version it says

"I am introducing the commodity manufactured in Japan of the Electric guitar of "Tokai" in the page here. Only "MADE IN JAPAN" the feature is to make it of steady polite. All commodities become Toyo having of the manufacturer. I might get time to the delivery for a while for the manufacturer stockout inside. Please acknowledge it beforehand."

Their translations are a bit... odd at time though. Probably best to email them.

david

Ah yeah, I might look into a Jap LP when i get the cash together...

You'd think I'd say something more meaningful in my 1000th post...

Ancient1

I bet it will be something gear-related on your tombstone too

david

Hell yes...

It wasn't me!

"I just ran out of headroom"

I hope people get that, or it just sounds stupid. :rolleyes:

david

Haha good one

Im sending you a PM regarding OperationX now Dave

Ancient1

I haven't authorized any operations yet.

Rozie

Yes, I have some advice.

http://guitargeek.com/chat/showthread.php?s=&threadid=56203

Scary stuff. You can skim the first bit of it or so.

Definitely don't buy off eBay whatever you do. If you're buying a Les Paul, make sure you know how to tell a good guitar within a few minutes.

david

Ancient1 wrote:

I haven't authorized any operations yet.

Not that operation! Thats operationY. OperationX invloves an ENGL, Some Gibsons, a lotta Opeth and loads of volume... Gotta find a second bass drum though.

Woops gotta remember the old OPSEC

It wasn't me!

Rozie wrote:

Definitely don't buy off eBay whatever you do.

I couldn't disagree more. eBay, if you know what you're doing, is as safe as buying from the Buy&Sell. I got my Les Paul on eBay for 1450.

Ah, yes, OperationX will indeed rock a small section of north Dublin... But it will rock it well. :ninja:

Kenny_D

I dont think I will be buying a Gibson. I'm gonna go for a Vintage Tokai Les Paul Reborn. These were the guitars that drove Gibson to sue them. They are the closest thing to a 58/59 Les Paul out there. I've been speaking to someone who has owned and played a lot of tokai's and he recommends these over any of the new ones.
http://www.harmony-central.com/Guitar/Data4/Tokai/Les_Paul_Reborn-01.html

I've been in contact with a guy from Germany who is selling one or two from his private collection. Within the next 5 days I could have one or 2 weeks at the most. If I buy from Germany will I get charged import tax or VAT? Or is it just for countries outside Europe?

Creamy Goodness

just for countries outside europe.

Kenny_D

Cool thanks. Could save myself around 400-500 euro if I get from Germany then. Is it hard to pick up a 2nd hand Vox AC30 or have people seen them up for sale?

david

Rarely... keep an eye on the buy and sell. Expect to pay €900

Kenny_D

Wow 900 euro. There 1000 new

david

Yeah tend to hold their value. I havent seen any reissues for sale... €900 for an original 70's or 80's model. There was one on boards not too long ago.

goin'_to_the_PS

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=38086&item=7333645486&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
plus $85 for shipping

Kenny_D

Slightly overpriced for an LS70 Love Rock I think. You'd have to add import and tax to that as well

goin'_to_the_PS

its a "gift" from my japense uncle

Kenny_D

So you bought it then? Let us know when you get it. The finish on it looks really nice